Forum Topic

TGT and CHR Junction lights

Any idea which organisation is responsible for the phasing of the lights and the Green Man crossing ? Currently barely six vehicles can leave TGT before the green light changes and the Green Man crossing gives less than a minute for pedestrians to cross and operates only part time. Needless to say, following the lengthy "improvements" some months ago, the digital clock showing the time allowed for pedestrians to cross does not appear to function.

Roger Jones ● 4562d24 Comments

"Any idea which organisation is responsible for the phasing of the lights and the Green Man crossing ? "TfL run all the signal lights in London, I believe, even on borough roads. I suspect they'll be making another herculean effort to 'smooth traffic flow' by prioritising cars on CHR over, well, anyone else.

Thomas Barry ● 4562d

"Green Man crossing gives less than a minute for pedestrians to cross"I should hope so. How long do you need?

Richard Jennings ● 4562d

The last couple of times I have crossed TGT there the lights seemed to miss out the pedestrian phase (which normally comes after the green light for the traffic travelling from TGT onto CHR - this had been the case both before and after the so-called 'upgrade' to this junction), completely catching many pedestrians out.It would seem that pedestrians no longer exist at this junction as far as TfL are concerned.

David Noades ● 4562d

On a thread about air quality last month, a poster (Tim Henderson) mentioned that Hounslow had used some of their budget to improve air quality to install SCOOT traffic lights on the corners of CHR and TGT.SCOOT is "a system that responds automatically to fluctuations in traffic flow through the use of on-street detectors embedded in the road" and apparently TfL would be monitoring their operation for 3 months after installation.So maybe there are problems with the detectors or programming... or maybe it is working as TfL intended.  If the rationale was to improve air quality, TfL objectives may be to keep as many cars as possible moving which would probably mean giving priority to cars on CHR over TGT (and pedestrians)

Michael Robinson ● 4562d

if i remember correctly, the green light for vehicles to exit TGT at that junction stays green for 6 seconds.

Ceref Devin ● 4562d

I have not timed the duration of the Green Man being far to concerned to cross the road, along with the usual crowd of pedestrians some of whom have mobility issues or are coping with small children and/or buggies.

Roger Jones ● 4562d

As a  regular user of the pedestrian crossing at the end of Turnham Green Terrace the green man only works if someone has pressed the pedestrian button (it is not automatic) which at times in spite of a group at people at the junction the 'wait' light is not illuminated - as no one has pressed the button.

Elizabeth Jane Daley ● 4562d

I have noticed that a couple of times, it is dangerous as people who know the crossing assume that as soon as the southbound light on Turnham Green Terrace changes to red they can cross as the pedestrian phase follows.

C Wynne ● 4562d

'If the rationale was to improve air quality, TfL objectives may be to keep as many cars as possible moving'I think that's exactly what a lot of people criticised Hounslow for when it emerged what the money was being spent on.  The monitoring point is by where traffic eastbound would queue at the junction, so avoiding eastbound queues would have the required effect.The obvious point is that making it easier to drive just encourages more people to drive down that road, meaning you end up where you started but with a degraded environment for everyone else.  The second obvious point is that poor air quality doesn't exist just at the points where it's measured - I suspect a monitoring station by the A4/SCR junction would be eye-watering.

Thomas Barry ● 4562d

Elizabeth,That was my initial thought too, but on both the occasions I was talking about the 'Wait' light was clearly illuminated, so this was not the explanation.I have also noticed a lot more pedestrians rushing across the junction on red pedestrian phases recently - this is surely not what TfL would have intended?

Martina Lyons ● 4562d

I have asked LBH Traffic Unit  to ask TfL to check these lights asap.John

John Todd ● 4562d

It would be interesting to find out if there are any results from the monitoring of queue lengths pre and post the SCOOT installation (as mentioned in the project status update).

Tim Henderson ● 4562d

No, it has changed

C Wynne ● 4562d

Many thanks for your interest and to others for their comments.

Roger Jones ● 4561d

I concur with the lights missing out the pedestrian phase. I was waiting what seemed an age for the green man to appear yesterday, but I thought it was due to the light phasing being changed for the tube strike, to keep the traffic flowing, plus I was with my mother who has mobility problems, and it gave us JUST enough time to cross over TGT.

Mary Devine ● 4560d

Those TfL lights keep on missing the pedestrian phase, not just once in a cycle but over several cycles. Isn't that dangerous?

Gilbert Short ● 4558d

"Those TfL lights keep on missing the pedestrian phase, not just once in a cycle but over several cycles. Isn't that dangerous?"Yes, potentially it is, as it would encourage pedestrians to cross during a vehicle phase. I've reported it to TfL in case no-one else has.

Richard Jennings ● 4558d

Thank you Richard

Carl Wynne ● 4558d

I noticed on Saturday 10 May that the pedestrian phase was still being omitted sometimes, and reported it again to TfL.  I had a call this morning from TfL London Streets asking for feedback on the situation, as they believe they have now fixed it.  I didn't have time to go down there this afternoon to check.  Has anyone noticed what the situation was today (Monday 12 May)?

Richard Jennings ● 4549d

I eventually had a reply from TfL on 12/05/14 acknowledging my complaint and they said they will investigate.

Gilbert Short ● 4548d

This morning, the pedestrian phase seemed to be working, but only after a long pause with all lights on red, still with no countdown display, and with no audible bleeps.  Reported to London Streets (TfL).

Richard Jennings ● 4548d

Reported

Sean Wales ● 4548d

The southbound TGT traffic lights have been shortened and this has contributed to stacking up the traffic since the junction was redesigned. They should be slightly lengthened. Not the biggest problem though.However there is a fundamental design flaw. I understand it is TfL responsibility, but since Hounslow had input and responsibility for the redesign, perhaps they could help? Now that the inestimable CCF has left, not sure if anyone equivalent in the council to approach?The southbound approach from TGT to the traffic lights has the middle line expanding rightwards to allow two lanes to turn left and right. The resultant lane northbound is NARROWER than the buses. So if a car turning right sits alongside a car turning left (completely within the white lines) then any buses going north up TGT cannot proceed. I have dozens of photos demonstrating their obstruction. Since many locals understand this we pull well over to the left so that buses can pass. In my experience over the last 10 years driving this junction daily a bus will turn around the corner and head towards you approximately 1 in 3 journeys. So if we pull over to the left there will only be one single line of southbound traffic and the provision of two southbound lanes (for 2-3 cars) is completely irrelevant.I have a great photo from last weekend showing 2 buses trying to get past the cars going south, and then the other traffic going north from Annandale adding to the obstruction and the whole junction freezing unnecessarily. This is not infrequent. It's not a huge problem, but easily supermounted and simply a result of poor design. This junction works overall. But it is a classic example of so called experts designing a solution which is flawed due to simple fundamental errors. It does not inspire confidence in those responsible for its implementation.

Matthew Barnard ● 4548d

Think these lights are playing up again, traffic piling up TGT

Chris Johnson ● 1872d