Forum Topic

'student' and the council house

(on the front page news) do we have to feel sorry for this 'student' that entered the country (illegally most likely) and was promised a council home and was offered a housing association home instead ? This makes my blood boil.  'Hounslow Council has been told to apologise to the man and undertake a review of the suitability of the housing offer made to him. Disgusting 

Isabel Martin ● 7d24 Comments

Yes,modern Britain seems to have changing and surprising priorities.Like when new houses are allocated to new arrivals,legal or otherwise whlst many families,often single parent ones,are left to endure endless temporary accomodation in hmo's,some of which also contain drug users or ex offenders etc.Surely,in any fair society,those now in these hmo's should be given the new homes and the new arrivals then moved into those hmo's.Or am I wrong?

Keith Iddon ● 7d

You haven't thought this through have you?He came to this country as a child and has been brought up in council care. Despite this he seems to have managed to get a place in tertiary education. He of course doesn't have a family home to fall back on so the council has to make some sort of arrangement for him.He could just take the Housing Association flat offered to him , not work and have it covered by Housing Benefit.Instead he wants to use his degree to get a job. Graduate employment opportunities are terrible at the moment so even with a strong degree he isn't going to be paid much over £20,000 which would mean he would have a pittance to live on if he took the Housing Association property. There may be service charges on top of the rent which make it totally impractical.A council flat would mean he would have enough disposable income to pay for food and heating. He was promised one which probably was one reason he decided it was worthwhile taking on a huge load of student debt.

Mark Evans ● 7d

Soemetimes one has to be careful what one wishes for.

Keith Iddon ● 7d

What makes you say "illegally most likely"?Is it knee-jerk prejudice or something more substantial?https://fullfact.org/immigration/illegal-immigration-council-housing/"Council housing is only available to eligible households. A person’s immigration status is taken into consideration when determining whether someone is eligible for council housing. People who are in the UK unlawfully, for example those who have not been granted leave to remain or have overstayed visas, cannot apply for council housing.People seeking asylum are also not eligible for council housing. Asylum seekers, while awaiting the outcome of their application, are often housed by the Home Office. At first, asylum seekers tend to be placed in what’s known as initial accommodation, such as a hostel or hotel. Dispersal accommodation is longer-term accommodation. The government has contracts with private companies to provide this."

Andrew Jones ● 7d

This article seems a bit confusing, as maybe was the actual case. What we're told is that this care leaver was being offered somewhere to live, yet reckoned he couldn't afford it, despite us being told his rent would be covered by Universal Credit.  The stock picture used to illustrate the story doesn't help as it suggests he's a university student, which he might not be, for that would raise other issues over student loans and suggest different accommodation arrangements.

Peter Evans ● 7d

That may be so Andrew,but I still thnk my point is germane.Call the accommodation anything you like,but those who have been in temporary accommodation should trump any new arrival,legal or otherwise,for improved housing in my opinion.I worked with 2 single mums who had to bring up their children for a few years in temporary accomodation and the stress involved for them over that time was awful.

Keith Iddon ● 7d

I was responding to the original poster's post rather than to anything you wrote Keith.Your observations are certainly relevant ( I confess I had to look up the word germane!) and I can't say I particularly disagree with what you've written. Also, being a single mum in temporary accommodation must be particularly stressful, regardless of what the circumstances leading to that situation were. I hope they are in a better place these days ( both physically and metaphorically).

Andrew Jones ● 7d

Thankyou Andrew.My apologies,I realised you were replying to the op,I was just responding to your final paragraph.There should of course be exceptions to my suggestion,but the general principle applied should be 'Get in line'.

Keith Iddon ● 7d

A few points to make here. Firstly, it can probably be safely assumed that any accommodation offered in this case would be a studio, unsuitable for a young woman with a child (not that single mums are never housed in unsuitable accommodation).Secondly, if you can put aside for a second that this person came here as a child from another country, consider the case as it generally impacts children in care making the transition into adulthood. The council is in loco parentis, a too low proportion of children in care get employment or continue in education and housing will be an important reason.The Universal Credit system will fund most of the accommodation cost, even in the more expensive housing association property, if the care leaver doesn't work. Any care leaver seeking to work will lose this benefit and there is a poverty trap here because the disincentive not to bother is strong.If you give care leavers social rent properties (as Hounslow suggests it will do) they have a chance to have a career and at some point no longer need taxpayer subsidise housing. If you don't, most of them are unlikely ever to get off benefits.

Mark Evans ● 7d

Agree with Keith, the system is unfair, would add it has been like this since the war, my Nans relatives would come here from Ireland and be housed straight away, those here that went through the war were left in rented rooms in terrible conditions, nothing has changed.

Janice Evans ● 7d

Thanks Keith.My final paragraph was cut and pasted from the article that I provided the link to.One thing that perhaps some people don't realise is that ( as far as I can see) dispersal accomodation for asylum seekers is funded by the Government ( so by all tax payers) whereas Council provided accomodation for non asylum seekers who aren't here illegally is funded by the Council (so a larger proportion of the funding comes from taxpayers living in the council area).Agree with the general principle "get in line" but there are several lines and in general people in different lines aren't in competition with people in other lines. And, even though I'm one of the 'lefties' that apparently run this forum, I totally agree with the U-turn the home secretary did about stopping asylum seekers being placed straight into new built homeshttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyx0p2z9w3oAs ever, good to read your considered views rather than regurgitated populist propaganda that certain other posters .put up on here.

Andrew Jones ● 6d

It's disgraceful that after all these years that children having to leave care when they turn 18 have to leave "their care home" when they go on to further education whilst they are still unprepared and have no family to fall back on or go home to in the holidays.  This means those leaving care with the chance of further education are still not being catered for over 50 years since a group of us as friends supported and negotiated together with some care staff for a halfway house type of situation for some we knew.  It's hard enough for many teenagers to go away to college with parental backup and to settle in and stay the course.  For those who  have no home to go back in the holidays it is even harder to stay the course which is something we should be encouraging rather than being jealous of.  These young people need more support not less or they will just repeat the same sad story of their own childhood.

Philippa Bond ● 5d

With respect, Philippa, you version is a bit upscale.Plenty people will put themselves through college by balancing a job with studies. They will not be off boarding and returning to families at holidays.This is where I think co-living comes into play. These types of accommodation are sprouting up all over the place. Perhaps a chunk of them could be subsidized by the council akin to your half-way house example and it would serve as the stepping stone between care and graduation.

David Lesniak ● 4d

All the pampies on here will all by sympathising with the illegals.

Soni Schuey ● 3d

You would hope that there would be student accommodation available and - shared houses were actually always a good way to progress and learn how to get on with others - and the pathway to gaining complete independence.  Now it is is obvious how so many are unmanaged HMOs in need of management.  The way that the article is written is odd -  subsidised housing and rules have changed over the years.It has also become more and more noticeable how there are youngsters leaving home who are totally unprepared and unable to live in and co-share facilities.  Years of growing up with no cookery lessons and no parents cooking either has not helped nor has not having to do any chores in the home.Putting young people into rabbit hutch type accommodation where they do not meet others has also created a problem of isolation and depression. Those coming from a children's home we knew had difficulties in understanding and appreciating the difference in quantities in shopping and cooking and the difference in a care home of doing this for a large number of children - and just buying and cooking for themselves. The funding or lack of it for further education has now also led to students suffering from malnutrition.The younger generation can be so much more agile and able when ordering a pizza and take-away meals on a screen - something that their parents and grandparents may not be so good at but not be aware of, able or know how to shop for, cook and make simple and cheaper healthy meals so they don't just end up living on take-aways every day.

Philippa Bond ● 3d

Why do you feel always so sorry for youngsters Philippa?Those with half a brain who master tech so admirably understand the benefits of nutrition and good living.Hunger is good sauce and learning to cook is relatively easy.Sympathise with those youngsters less advantaged of course.

Denis I. Fox ● 3d

It's probably cheaper to buy a takeaway now than buying and cooking yourself, high cost of energy has a lot to answer for.

Janice Evans ● 3d

The answer is obvious, Denis. Youngsters nowadays have none of the benefits that my and Philippa's generation enjoyed: free education; no millstone of student debt around our necks; excellent job prospects (it never occurred to me when I graduated that I would ever be unemployed); and no shortage of affordable housing, so that many of us were able to buy a house before we were in our thirties. As Supermac said in 1957: "most of our people have never had it so good."

Robert Fish ● 3d

At least they can - if they can afford it - look up on the internet how to make mashed potato (one of the publicised questions asked) - but that on its own isn't a healthy meal - and living on take-aways is hardly likely to be.  They are unlikely to get a freezer each to store frozen meals in. Do they know how to wash their clothes or are they still sending them/bringing them home? It is a real shame that they can start off with so little knowledge of how to do so many of the practical things that we learnt how to do at school or at home with parents or grand-parents.When there isn't the home back-up to ask it is a lot more difficult. 

Philippa Bond ● 2d

It seems to be a uniquely British tradition that students are expected to 'go away' to university or college, as if the 'leaving home' is an important part of this right of passage.  Of course, in our long-established, traditional universities, such mysterious processes as cooking and cleaning continued to be looked after by the servants provided for the purpose, leaving time for the students to spend three years larking about and, theoretically, 'growing up'! In many other countries, I gather that students go to their local university or college, often being guaranteed a place there on leaving school, and stay at home - so when do they ever learn to cook and clean?!

Peter Evans ● 2d

I believe that after years of being removed from the curriculum there are some cookery lessons now happening in schools.  Kitchen equipment had been taken out of many schools and had to be replaced.This morning the Radio 4 Appeal was for the Child Poverty Action Group.  One of the problems that has been identified is that children don't take up some options at school because they don't have the kit or because they cannot afford the ingredients in the cookery recipes.So long as the recipes are chosen well and are good and healthy it shouldn't be that expensive.  (I can remember years ago my mother complaining that I had been asked to take a tin of meat as one of ingredients to make a cottage pie with when she felt we should be cooking from scratch).Reading the washing instructions before buying clothing - and then only if they are washable putting them in a washing machine and following those instructions if you are bothered about them surviving the wash is a good idea! Things like learning to do zips up, emptying pockets and turning clothes inside out so as not to allow open zips to tear holes in favourite t-shirts and sweatshirts before washing items is worthwhile. A moment's lack of care in missing and putting just one tissue into the wash with everything else can leave you with an unnecessary problem and an awful lot of lost time.  More haste less speed!

Philippa Bond ● 2d

Cookery lessons put me off cooking for life, cooking cakes and biscuits,Ok if they teach you how to cook a meal.

Janice Evans ● 1d

You're a star if you can cook pancakes when you go camping as my young niece discovered. Who would think that something so very simple to cook could be such a success at a festival!?

Philippa Bond ● 1d

Pancakes I love, only with lemon though.

Janice Evans ● 1d