Forum Topic

Sutton court road crossing closed for 7 weeks(?!)

A rather ominous sign has been put up on the northbound (Grove Park) side of the Sutton court road a4 crossing. It says that from 27/07 until 14/09 “gas mains replacement left ahead only”Which I assume will mean that to get from Grove Park to Barrowgate road we will need to go left on to the a4, up to Chiswick roundabout and back round, or go down to Hogarth roundabout. For 7 weeks…!One network seem to think the crossing will be closed totally for 4 weeks. Cadent website seems to think the issue will be more southbound: you won’t be able to turn right onto to the a4.Does anyone have any more info on this?

Sarah Smith ● 10d22 Comments

Even as quite an experienced cyclist, I wouldn't cross the A4 on Sutton Court Road at this point going north. There is an incline against you and the cars turning west on to the A4 will cut across you out of fear of being stuck in the middle of the junction. Going south isn't so bad - I went across this way earlier in the week but the number of cyclists that use this junction is tiny and I doubt it will increase during the works.Journeys that could theoretically be substituted for bike rides would be shopping trips to Chiswick. You can take it for granted that most Grove Park residents will now go to Richmond or Kew Retail while these works are ongoing.

Mark Evans ● 4h

"if it was at a time when the temporary barriers were in place"It wasn't.

Michael Robinson ● 21h

Signage on the A4 is the responsibility of TfL, not Hounslow therefore it would be TfL's decision and they may very well also consider it is a stupid idea and refuse to do it.The main point is creating a risk of a head-on collision doesn't appear to have occurred to Cllr Giles in the first place.  I wonder if the idea came from her father...?

Michael Robinson ● 21h

I’m with Michael on this one, I’m afraid Richard. I don’t think it would be practical to reverse the flow at this point given the way the road now arcs to favour traffic leaving the A4.If Cllr Giles did indeed suggest that this should happen after the permanent changes were made, then she would have made an error. However, if it was at a time when the temporary barriers were in place it would have been workable and Michael is being a bit dishonest in the way that he has portrayed her.It has also allowed Michael to use what appears to be his new favourite word ‘dumb’ which also happens to be currently constantly used by Donald Trump who is very proud of having ‘invented’ the phrase ‘dumbocrats’. It is an interesting insight how The Donald has infected 21st century discourse. He has showed that you can win nuanced arguments not by carefully selected points but by baldly stating people who disagree with you are idiots and attributing idiotic points of view to them to prove your case. When facts are reported that don’t coincide with your opinions, that is because of the nasty fake news media.Further to the SCR gas works issue I did manage to track down the traffic order for this work. It was issued by TfL not Hounslow Council so perhaps we are being unfair on the borough because it would appear it is TfL keeping them in the dark rather than vice versa. You won’t be able to turn right up Sutton Court Road when west bound on the A4 or left east bound (eastbound most people go via the Porsche garage anyway). The date given is 14 August suggesting that the dot matrix screen is indeed incorrect which is a relief.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 22h

A temporary "No left turn" from the A4 would solve that problem. You just like to be negative about any suggestion that disagrees with your personal agenda.

Richard Greenhough ● 23h

"It seems fairly obvious that Cllr Giles was suggesting a temporary re-opening of access from Harvard Hill to the A4 westbound, not facing oncoming traffic on the wrong side of the road."Harvard Hill junction at the A4 is now a single lane road with traffic only permitted from the A4.  The original restriction was created by barriers but this has now been replaced by pavement build-outs narrowing the road.So a vehicle trying to enter the A4 from Harvard Hill would be faced by oncoming vehicles turning off the A4 onto Harvard Hill.As I said, dumb.

Michael Robinson ● 23h

From the LBH website - "Harvard Hill was previously being used as a cut through for traffic accessing the A4, with traffic volumes on Fauconberg Road, Gordon Road and Harvard Hill well beyond those of neighbouring streets. In peak time hours, 85% of traffic on Harvard Hill was exiting onto the A4. Of this traffic, four in every five vehicles originated from outside the immediate residential area (bounded by the railway line and Sutton Court Road).To remove this traffic, a trial closure from Harvard Hill onto the A4 was introduced. An independent review of the traffic data and consultation responses received during the trial period was undertaken, which informed the decision to make this measure permanent."From Michael Robinson - "Cllr Giles does have a bit of a track record of knee jerk reactions to road closures. With a previous road closure, she advocated that vehicles should be allowed to enter the A4 via Harvard Hill.  That would have involved facing oncoming traffic on the wrong side of the road and thankfully, it never happened."It seems fairly obvious that Cllr Giles was suggesting a temporary re-opening of access from Harvard Hill to the A4 westbound, not facing oncoming traffic on the wrong side of the road.

Richard Greenhough ● 1d

Michael, I understand that most Grove Park residents will already have access even when the restrictions apply. As I previously mentioned, it doesn't really matter because anybody can join the A316 from Burlington Lane (in front of Chiswick School). You'll grasp better the point I am trying to make if you just focus on what the day to day impact would be on residents of Grove Park if queues stretched down the A316 towards Chiswick Bridge. Grove Park drivers and bus users could face substantially increased journey times including those returning home from south of the river. Some residents may feel that it is worth allowing traffic seeking to go west on the A4 access again. Many of course will not.I understand this site isn't your favoured source of local news but once again you appear to have been very unfair on them. Further research was attempted on this important story  with information requested from both Cadent and the Council. The most striking thing for me is that with a week to go before this restriction comes into place we have so little information about what is actually planned, no information on diversion routes, no confirmation that right turns on A4 westbound will be allowed onto Sutton Court Road, incomplete information on revised bus routes (which suggests TfL hasn't been informed either). We still don't know for sure if the dot matrix sign displaying the September end date is accurate. If you have spoken to the other Riverside councillors it would be good to know what they think but perhaps you could give Cllr Croft, who is now a cabinet member, that it might be a bright idea to actually give Grove Park residents more details of what is being planned.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 1d

"removing the restriction would have to be both ways on Staveley Road"Again, you aren't making any sense. There is no restriction for anyone accessing the A316 from Staveley Rd. Grove Park resident permit holders can already access Staveley Rd from the A316." As I explained it might be easier for Grove Park residents to leave the area if traffic  is allow to cut through."Ah, so you are saying that encouraging large volumes of traffic to drive into and through Grove Park will make it easier for residents to drive out of Grove Park.  Really Jeremy, what planet are you on?"As far as I am aware, the other two have not spoken against Cllr Giles' request or made any representations about how the issue might be mitigated. "Well, the article was clearly a press release from the Conservatives sent to ChiswickW4 so I wouldn't expect to see them to acknowledge the existence of any other parties unless to criticise them.  Then ChiswickW4 did a copy and paste job without any further research themselves.As I am a Riverside resident, I have brought the article to the attention of the other Riverside Cllrs with my opinion that Cllr Giles clearly hasn't thought this through.  Possibly they may have a quiet word with the transport officers rather than issuing a press release like the Conservatives. Cllr Giles does have a bit of a track record of knee jerk reactions to road closures. With a previous road closure, she advocated that vehicles should be allowed to enter the A4 via Harvard Hill.  That would have involved facing oncoming traffic on the wrong side of the road and thankfully, it never happened.

Michael Robinson ● 1d

"How does removing restrictions entering Grove Park make any difference for people staring their journeys in Grove Park?"As far as I am aware, removing the restriction would have to be both ways on Staveley Road. As I explained it might be easier for Grove Park residents to leave the area if traffic  is allow to cut through." so you are saying that Cllr Giles is gallantly sacrificing roads in Grove Park for the benefit of any driver who thinks they may be able to save some time on their way to the A4 by avoiding Hogarth roundabout. "I wouldn't quite phrase it like that and, in making the request, her main aim would be to benefit her constituents, not drivers passing through, presumably having made some assessment of what they would like to happen.There is no pretence that all the options here aren't unpalatable or that there will be a consensus within Grove Park as to what the best response would be. I'd assume that residents who are home during the day would be very much of your point of view and that those that need to travel by road north or west would support Cllr Giles. This would include all bus users which is, I would guess, the main public transport access mode for the area. The point is that neither you nor I know how bad the tailbacks will be along Burlington Lane. My assumption is that most of the traffic currently using Sutton Court Road will switch to Burlington Lane, including the buses. If the short phase at the Hogarth Roundabout remains the same, then queues will quickly build up as they are already doing at busier times. I acknowledge this could be completely wrong but I suspect you, Cllr Giles and the Hounslow Council roads team don't know for sure.The area is represented by councillors from three different parties. As far as I am aware, the other two have not spoken against Cllr Giles' request or made any representations about how the issue might be mitigated. They might believe that it is actually no big deal and there won't be much of an impact - they might be right.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 1d

Thanks Paul James, resident of Hanwell and occasions car driver when it suits him. Apparently being a photographer and cyclist means he can dictate how everyone else should live.

Simon Hayes ● 1d

(and if you're unsure about riding a bike, hounslow council has lots of help available!)https://www.hounslow.gov.uk/transport-traffic/free-cycle-training/7

Paul James ● 1d

Just a hint, for those that can, you don't have to be stuck in traffic, and it will help those that really need to drive a car, people on buses and the emergency services.

Paul James ● 1d

Shout a bit louder Michael. They can’t hear back home in Ulster.Opening up closed roads for a few weeks isn’t the end of the world, much as you would like it to be. What are you so scared of?

Simon Hayes ● 1d

"Removing the restrictions would give the option of journeys starting in Grove Park accessing the A4 via Staveley Road."Huh? This doesn't make any sense at all.  How does removing restrictions entering Grove Park make any difference for people staring their journeys in Grove Park?"These queues would be reduced if there was the option of reaching the A4 via Grove Park."Ah, so you are saying that Cllr Giles is gallantly sacrificing roads in Grove Park for the benefit of any driver who thinks they may be able to save some time on their way to the A4 by avoiding Hogarth roundabout.  She should really say that, shouldn't she.

Michael Robinson ● 1d

Removing the restrictions would give the option of journeys starting in Grove Park accessing the A4 via Staveley Road. There is an obvious concern that Hartington Road might struggle to cope with the extra volume of traffic. What the article fails to point out is that Burlington Lane is another point of access and probably the one most Grove Park residents would use.Whether it would be wise would largely depend on the length of tailbacks back from the Hogarth Roundabout on the A316. I went through on the bus at the weekend and the lights here have about a 12-13 second phase with about a minute and a half in the other direction so it won't take many extra vehicles to make the queues stretch back beyond Cavendish School. Remember the two bus routes will almost certainly be diverted this way. These queues would be reduced if there was the option of reaching the A4 via Grove Park. The trade off for residents might be that they need to accept more through traffic in return for not having a perma-queue along Burlington Lane which might make using Sutton Court Road and Chiswick Roundabout the quicker option.The planning of this seems to have been very poor so the council might find itself needed to react to circumstances but hopefully, given the holiday season, there won't be too much of a negative effect and leaving the restrictions in place would be the best option. Suggesting that it might not be certainly isn't dumb.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 1d

ChiswickW4 is reporting that "Cllr Giles has asked for restrictions on Staveley, Hartington and Strand-on-the-Green to be lifted during the works to alleviate some of the problems.”What is the point of that?Lifting restrictions on Staveley, Hartington means even more traffic heading towards Sutton Court Rd only to be faced with the need to turn left onto the A4.Traffic coming from that direction towards Chiswick N of the A4 would be far better staying on the A316.Has Cllr Giles really thought this through?The article says Cllr Giles "was awaiting a reply" from Hounslow transport department.Let's hope the reply is "no" unless residents of Grove Park want even longer queues along SCR.

Michael Robinson ● 1d

nothing takes 2 weeks ... first they put up the barriers, then they do a safety assessment and an equalities impact review, sit on them for a few months, write a report and then prepare a detailed plan for approval etc etc etc

Davey Harris ● 2d

Is it ok to travel westwards on the A4 towards Sutton Court Road lights, go to turn right but do a u turn back down the A4.

Lesley Thorne ● 4d

I hope you’re right and it is a typo. As you say: 2 weeks is still a pain but it’s better than 7 weeks, and at least it’s not during term time.

Sarah Smith ● 10d

I think that may have been a typo. When I looked at the One Network site it said the work was from 27 July to 14 August - two weeks will still cause problems though if the diversion is as you describe it.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 10d

So when will this happen - how are the elderly going  be able to get to the shops from Grove Park from the station  and back  Good to know - 7 weeks ?

Helen Bamberger ● 10d