Forum Topic

Attacks on Chiswick women in the mid-nineties

Reading about the death of Carl Royal, for whom no tears will be said, dredged up some unpleasant memories. I remember when I first hear about the attacks I was uncertain if they were true. There was no internet in those days - well not for me anyway - and stories often circulated about terrible crimes. I don't recall much TV coverage and if you didn't buy the newspaper on the right day, you wouldn't get to hear about it. It wasn't until the trial that what actually happened was confirmed for most people.I was a daily commuter from Turnham Green at that time so started doing calculations of what were the chances of the victim having been me rather than someone else and the conclusion was terrifying. I never liked walking out of the station to home after dark but I started either calling my husband to collect me or using a cab from the rank if he was not around.As the memory of the crime faded, such precautions started to seem unnecessary and about a decade ago I stopped calling for a lift or getting a cab. Lone women, who had virtually disappeared from Chiswick streets after dark were returning and men's attitudes had changed, for instance crossing the road so they wouldn't be walking behind you. Last night I walked home alone late in the evening without a second thought. Crimes against women are far from a thing of the past and there is no room for complacency but Chiswick, London and the rest of the country are much safer now than they were thirty years ago. Some people seem determined to present London as a crime-ridden hell hole but the reality is that we, men as well as women, are probably safer now than we were at any point in our history.

Anita Blake ● 19d21 Comments

Of course it doesn't solve the problem, but how could that solve the problem anyway - all it can do is provide some respite.Having those carriages does mean that women have a much safer space when travelling where they won't be groped or worse while they are there.

Andrew Jones ● 15d

Keith said there were reports on it, and that they don't say if it's increased.

Janice Evans ● 15d

Felicity, who said it was illegal immigrants ?

Janice Evans ● 15d

Janice, what exactly am I supposed to be denying is happening?0.2% of all men in this country are convicted of sexual offences. There are 100,000s illegal immigrants in London, mainly men. Therefore they are likely responsible for hundreds of sex crimes in the capital. However these will be a small fraction of those that take place and there is no evidence whatsoever that people working here illegally are more likely to commit any sort of crime, in fact what data we have suggests the opposite is true and anything from British Rail contradicting this is likely to be decades out of date. As mentioned previously, a huge surge in the number of illegal immigrants in London since Brexit has not corresponded with rise above the general trend in the UK. The impression that illegal immigrants are uniquely dangerous to women is being created by certain sections of the media and amplified across Facebook and Twitter but it is a false narrative. America is finding out that you don't end sexual violence against women by deporting everyone in your country illegally. It is notable that those most aggressively pushing this line are very often guilty of crimes against women whether it is the predator in the White House or the remarkably high number of men arrested at the recent 'Enough is Enough' marches who had domestic violence convictions. Don't trust what these people are telling you.

Felicity Caborn ● 15d

Japan, India and Brazil have had women only carriages for years, butsuggest it doesn't solve the problem but women feel safer travelling.

Janice Evans ● 15d

Lets forget about mobility for a second Phillipa, this is part of what you wrote originally:"Once upon a time we were expected to be more thoughtful of what we wore so as hopefully to not draw whst might be undesirable attention to ourselves."So if someone gets attacked as a consequence of what they are wearing, do they bear any responsibility, or are they an entirely blameless victim? (The only assumption I'm making when asking this question of you is that whatever they might be wearing is legal)

Andrew Jones ● 15d

Agree Philippa, within reason.

Janice Evans ● 15d

Felicity, there is no point whatsoever in trying to deny this is happening,by whoever, it is happening, it's not fake news, there have been genuine figures from British Rail and the other Steve mentioned, if we ignore it thereis a possibility it will get much worse.

Janice Evans ● 15d

While I didn't live in Chiswick while these attacks were taking place, I would concur with Anita's view that the area, and London in general, feels a lot safer for women than it did at the end of the last century. There are a number of reasons why this might be the case - more CCTV, more sex offenders locked up due to improved DNA testing, Uber meaning a safe route home is always available, better street lighting, less public drunkeness and a greater awareness from men about behaviours that might make women feel unsafe at night. These factors seem to have combined to encourage more people, including lone women, to walk home after dark which in itself has made this feel more secure.Some men will point to the statistics on sex offences and claim that this makes women like me and Anita complacent and delusional but the rise in reports and convictions does not mean living in London has become more dangerous for women. The increase in offences since the nineties has been caused by many factors including the aforementioned DNA testing, proper attention being given to historic sex offences, tighter legal definition on consent and less of the kind of victim blaming that has crept into this thread.Violence against women and girls remains far too high and there is no room for complacency but we do need to recognise the progress being made and keep up pressure and not be distracted by false narratives about the nature of the problem.Around 0.2% of men end up being convicted of sex offences and the limited data that we have shows little difference in that number between ethnicities although the type of offending may differ. There are estimated to be about 600,000 asylum seekers and illegal immigrants in the country of which around 70% are in London. Inevitably some of them will be responsible for sex crimes but, as Philippa points out, any cases will inevitably be amplified in papers like the Daily Mail and Telegraph and then shared widely across social media. Even the BBC seems to have followed the path of giving promininet coverage to every sex crime involving a migrant while ignoring the much much larger proportion of those that do not.This has led to the simple minded or those who cleave to a narrative that suits their prejudices to talk about a migrant crime wave. Trump managed to get elected with similar rhetoric but, as with the US, the actual evidence shows that recent arrivals to the country are less likely to commit a criminal offence (if you exclude those related to immigration matters) than the rest of the population.While sexual offences have risen in London at the same time as the huge increase in the number of illegal workers since Brexit, the rises mirror those seen in other parts of the country. Despite most illegal workers being in London there has been no extra surge in sex crimes in the capital.My own experience suggests that women are most at risk not from men living on the margins of society but men in positions of power and responsiblity which too many seek to abuse. The horrors that are emerging from America about the activities of the very man who pushed the migrant crime lie the hardest should be a lesson to us here. When people spread falsehoods and say that they do so out of 'concern' for woment, we should be aware that is always the very last of their considerations.

Felicity Caborn ● 15d

It is obviously too late and a mistake to blame someone once they have become a victim. However, a bit of practical forethought about what you will be wearing depending on where you are going, who with and how, and how you might have to get back especially if things go wrong can be a good thing.  Image isn't everything but does seem to rather take over nowadays.I'll forever remember the sight of a young man with his trousers halfway down his bum having to scuttle sideways like a crab through the moving traffic on Chiswick High Road in order to keep those trousers on. That's a fashion that definitely won't help in a fast getaway!

Philippa Bond ● 15d

Too true. What was the man wearing when he attacked?

Anne England ● 15d

You can't blame the victims for how they dress or shoes they wear

Davy Jones ● 16d

had to make a run for it once when a child, about 6, but self preservation kicks in and I remained very calm and unconcerned until we reached a side turning and suddenly run off before he had realised.

Janice Evans ● 16d

In terms of being able to run, your choice of footwear can have an effect. But I presume you are suggesting that "personal responsibility" may also involve being selective about what clothing one chooses to wear when on an evening or day out - have I interpreted what you've written correctly Phillipa?

Andrew Jones ● 16d

That's true we were told how to cover up, my Dad used to make us cover our arms before we went out, he had Victorian ways, but a cardigan on a hot day was very uncomfortable, but if these attacks are happening during winter when we are all covered up more, we cannot blame the victims.

Janice Evans ● 16d

Once upon a time we were expected to be more thoughtful of what we wore so as hopefully to not draw whst might be undesirable attention to ourselves.  This was often as a result of parental advice on these matters but also because we we wanted to be able to run if we felt we needed to.Now it seems that we are more concerned about rights than responsibilities.  I like the idea of being able to wear whatever I want as risque and  outrageously noticeable and fashionable as I want but would also prefer to be able to run if need be and not attract unwanted undesirable attention.  Who didn't turn their skirt hems right up in the day (we could all sew then but also staple them/sellotape them if we were in a hurry. That's why schools had rules and parents took or tried to take more responsibility!Now we seem to be scared to speak out and are constantly told not to victim blame but wouldn't it be just sensible to try and increase the emphasis on a bit more  personal responsibility to avoid problems?  Sadly you will never avoid them all but with a bit more thought you just might give just give yourself a better chance to escape dangerously unwanted situations and what can be their longterm consequences should there be one.

Philippa Bond ● 16d

Crime against women and girls way up according to London Assembly! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2g52294xzo

Steve Taylor ● 18d

Figures up 50% since 2021 ( figures from British Transport.)

Janice Evans ● 18d

These are exaggerated by algorithms and the media and politics with those intent on dividing us all quoting poor and incorrect statistics which they are spinning for their own political reasons.

Philippa Bond ● 18d

You seem sure that streets in the UK are much safer than 30 years ago Anita.Is this your opinion or do you have a verified and up to date  source of stats.regarding this?In many parts of the country where resources and public services are more much less abundant that in Chiswick, that concern for public safety is number one on the agenda,not least because of assaults on young women by asylum seekers and illegal migrants.These are reqularly reported by the press but they never say if the overall rates have increased or decreased over time.

Keith Iddon ● 19d

If you read about the women sexually assaulted on trains it's quite horrific.

Janice Evans ● 19d