Forum Topic

Warning ! rubbish bins collections from flats above shops

Hounslow council people have been seen checking purple rubbish bags left by the collection bins , when asked the response was it will be up to £1000 fine if bags are left by the bin even if the bins are full !! they said if full, take your rubbish back until bins are empty ! This is just nuts, those bins are always full, there not enough of them to begin with, and only get collected twice a week . They are just trying to fine people when they don't provide a proper service 

Isabel Martin ● 12d40 Comments

People generate waste, Philippa. Simple.They buy. They eat. They live. They then dispose of stuff.Councils are proving incapable of collecting and recycling efficiently, effectively. What do you suggest? People stop living?

David Lesniak ● 12h

Although the waste and recycling collection may be the first and only thing that comes to some residents' minds, Councils have plenty of other responsibilities and many of these are not things that the general public can do anything much for themselves about or greatly influence.  Much is Government controlled.Years ago there used to be the slogan on the Government website "Your Waste is Your Responsibility".  The more waste you make the more difficult it is to sort and dispose of.  Your buying choices make a difference.  There is legislation  controlling various aspects of it. London Boroughs are grouped together into Waste Authorities who work together to find the best uses and contracts for sorting and disposal of waste as a resource.There are Waste Hierarchy diagrams to work to - some are better than others.We are moving to a circular economy so as to make the most of the earth's finite resources:Here's a good website:https://www.ellenmacarthurfoundation.org/Those working in these industries work together and network.  Expos can showcase new and different ways of dealing with various materials as well as changes due to legislation.I remember years ago a building estate that had been designed and built with underground collection bins which did not work and were a waste of money and resources because the Local Authority did not use and did not use or have the collection vehicles needed to deal with this one estate.

Philippa Bond ● 21h

Clearly, Philippa, this is your passion. You appear to be a recycling geek of sorts, no offense.Yet oddly there are plenty of taxpayers who simply want to live their lives and go about discarding rubbish and recycling without having to attend expos at Excel to devise a plan. Nor do they want to collect rubbish inside next to the sofa. Crazy, I know. They also expect the services for which they've paid to be provided. Your basically saying to people they need to paint their homes after having paid a painter to do so but the painter disappeared with your money. No.Councils are failing to deliver. They are breaking the social and literal contract paid for.As for larger items, there should be a monthly collection. It could easily be done to service one side of the street and then the other or one ward then the next. So mattresses, etc., are collected and disposed of properly. It should be included in your taxes but could easily be a surcharge the way garden waste collection is (note to councils - this is what a legitimate revenue stream looks like). It would reduce fly tipping and the need for people to drive to a depot that either no longer exists or refuses you because you don't come from the "right" borough or whatever paltry excuse pops up for, yet again, not doing the job we've all paid for. Not rocket science. No expo needed. Just common sense, really.

David Lesniak ● 1d

Hello JoI'll have a look at your website another time but I'm sure there will be others who have found other legal waste reduction solutions to their queries and needs in places they visit as part of their routines.  It is many years since we did the Rubbish Diet with Karen Cannard and reduced our waste with Mrs Green from myzerowaste.com.  It goes back a long way to taking your old bag shopping, keep cups and reusable water bottles and refill stations and more.Philippa

Philippa Bond ● 2d

Well there also used to be street banks BUT there were also huge complaints about the utter mess around them too as just about anything seemed to end up dumped there and sifted through and gradually shop after shop declined to host them.I once made an impromptu survey of visitors to the large Sainsbury's as I wondered why it was so popular for recycling.  Several people didn't seem to know what they could recycle from home but then many people don't seem to know which borough they are living in either - as anyone who like me has tried to help people reducing their waste soon finds out! Others had masses of newspapers they wanted to dispose of or the plastic tubs and trays that weren't at the time accepted in the kerbside collection.  Councils don't all have to provide a valeting service for all residents in all situations eg if a service isn't working well which for all I know it wasn't then you can expect a service to be withdrawn.  I do know that a lot of people just can't be bothered to check what and when and where (which sometimes also differs from homes with wheelie bins)and I'm sure that a lot of other people know this too. It has also not been made easier by the fact that what can be collected as household recycling still varies from borough to borough depending on contracts.  It can also change when those contracts change and when new facilities and equipment become available and when Govt regulations change.At a recent recycling expo at the Excel one of the speakers pointed out the very clear recycling bins with simple pictures and instructions and how you just have to look inside to immediately see how some people can't manage the simplest of separation between different packaging.  Yet when I last looked at the National Curriculum reuse of resources appeared several times over.  Sadly, as with everything there always seem to be some who spoil it for the rest.Perhaps there are more people who just complain about any mess or complain louder than those who bother to contact the shop or Council about streetbanks and bins in their neighbourhood being full and needing emptying?  It never seems to take long before someone tries to cram a mattress into a streetbank marked up for something else eg bottles and jars or tins or paper and cardboard.We've always had to look further than a Council kerbside collection to increase our recycling and reduce our general waste.  Some people are keen enough to keep bokashi bins and wormeries in their flats. Others not.  You need to make a waste assessment and see what works for you and expect to tweak it as you go along. We also concentrate far too much on Recycling which is near  the bottom of the Waste Hierarchy instead of starting at the top.

Philippa Bond ● 2d

when we first were given the purple bags ( before we had the bins) we were given clear plastic bags to put the reclycling bits.. those bags and collections were removed too 

Isabel Martin ● 2d

One would think a council would serve the taxpayers.One would also think that dealing with trash and recycling wouldn't require various Googling, research, analysis, virtual signaling, shaming and the other odd bits on this post. Trash and recycling out. Collected. Job done.Hounslow doesn't do that. Odd to think in this day and age with deliveries, people are expected to trot here and there disposing of this and that but they'll have a box of cereal delivered.

David Lesniak ● 2d

Thanks, Philippa. I'm a bit of an obsessive recycler having been told, decades ago, by Ealing council (when I lived in that bit of Chiswick) that "every scrap of paper counts". I've been campaigning for recycling for residents of flats above shops since very soon after I was elected in 2018. I'm not short of political will; the council seems to be.Yes, purple sacks are collected twice a week but some flats above shops are so small (such as studios) that there is very limited space for waste and even twice a week isn't frequent enough (sharing a bedroom with smelly waste is not pleasant). Besides, the grit gins have a very small capacity, shared by a large number of flats - which is why purple sacks are often piled up next to these bins. As mentioned earlier in this stream, more grit bins for purple sacks are due to be delivered along Chiswick High Road but better solutions are to offer recycling, so there is less waste to be collected, and more collections, so residents don't have to put their sacks next to the bins. On your point about many people not needing to have a fortnightly waste collection, I agree that some don't and I am one. I do not have a wheelie bin for waste; I have an agreement with my neighbours who let me use their bin; I put out a small 20 litre bin liner every second or third collection week. Larger households need more bins. Finally, on your point about using websites to find out what can be recycled where, I have been maintaining a list on my own website; I send the link to residents who contact me about wanting to recycle more. It includes links to Terracycle and Waste Wizard. Please do let me know what needs to be added to it: https://www.joannabiddolph.london/news/recycling-where-recycle-hard-recycle-items-chiswickJojoanna.biddolph@hounslow.gov.uk

Joanna Biddolph ● 2d

Hello JoYes, there is no Council kerbside COLLECTION of recycling for residents above shops - but there have always been things that we can't recycle in the collections which is why we have to look out for the alternatives - which are often at those places that we are actually buying from.  In particular batteries and electrical items need special care so as to avoid any fires in collection vehicles (at least one a week in the UK).Using the websites that are available can help you to reduce your waste.  There are quite a number of easy alternative legal ways to do so.As I understand it there is already more than one collection a week of purple bags from the flats above shops which is more than for other people.  Many people with fortnightly collections of general waste don't actually NEED to use them as frequently as fortnightly.https://recycleyourelectricals.org.uk/playing-with-fire-the-cost-of-binned-batteries-and-electricals/ From experience one large kitchen bin is unlikely to help in reducing or separating recyclable and unrecyclable waste.   

Philippa Bond ● 3d

There is currently no recycling for residents of flats above shops. None. So, anything recycled is recycled personally - by walking it to the various shops that take eg soft plastics, batteries, pens and I know many residents of flats above shops who do this. Since the recycling bins at Sainsbury's were removed, and the Stirling Road recycling centre was closed, there are very few places for residents of flats above shops to take their recycling. Consequently, much of their recycling is put in their purple waste sacks - with not enough bins or, as Isabel says, not enough collections, to cope with the volume.

Joanna Biddolph ● 3d

Are you recycling anything at all?

Philippa Bond ● 3d

not because they are about to be collected but because there aren't enough bins 

Isabel Martin ● 3d

Surely they have to be put out on the right day and time for that but they certainly haven't always been!  When the pavements are more crowded with shoppers and the birds, rats, mice, cats, squirrels, dogs etc have had a go at them let alone if they get blown onto the road and squashed by the transport it doesn't take long for waste to be spread all over the place ie long stretches of road too.

Philippa Bond ● 3d

I don’t necessarily mind seeing bin bags in the street as it usually means they’re about to be collected.

Peter Evans ● 3d

It's far easier to reduce bit by bit when you know what constitutes the greatest amount of the waste you make.  I hope you now have some more legal ways to reduce it.I don't think you'll find anybody - any of us all - wants to find either their walk along the pavement or outlook dotted with waste, waste bags or bins!! 

Philippa Bond ● 3d

https://myzerowaste.com/2023/05/how-to-overcome-recycling-challenges-when-living-in-an-apartment/One of the inspirational websites that helped us reduce our waste and increase  any recycling by starting to look at our carbon footprint years ago now.  Life changes all the time so we also have to adapt and make adjustments as we go along.

Philippa Bond ● 4d

Don't forget that a lot of soft plastic packaging eg bread bags can now be recycled at larger supermarkets - look ar the packaging for information.  This just helps you to reduce the amount of waste you are creating.You may also find that your local Boots store has containers for various things eg empty pill blister packs and/or other empty packaging.There is legislation regarding packaging producer responsibility and so some efforts are being made to alter and find ways to source and sort waste streams for recycling.

Philippa Bond ● 4d

https://recycleyourelectricals.org.uk/how-to-recycle-electronics/retailer-take-back/So ideally make enquiries before you buy new to make it easier.  Look at the websites of your local stores eg Robert Dyas and Sainsbury's and question shop staff more than once (temps may not know about regulations) and what each company offers.  Check out Fixing Factories and Repair Cafes and get help to make simpler repairs.  There are also charity shops (admittedly fewer since the pandemic since many older and more vulnerable volunteers decided not to work) who DO take electrical items nowadays.TRAID  - a charity - also offer a collection for small electrical items with a clothing collection.  You could try organising a charity collection from your office address. This definitely used to work - and it's a good way to support charity, involve workmates in a charitable enterprise and reduce everyone's impact on the environment.  That's of course if you haven't first taken advantage of your local Repair Cafes - Chiswick and Ealing and Kew to name a few.  Ealing Repair cafe recently received a King's Award for their work.  There is also a lot of info online.  We are moving from a make-take-dispose sort of environment to a more ethical one where many components of what we have could have a new and/or longer life - if not for us for someone else.

Philippa Bond ● 7d

Admittedly it is more difficult to recycle when you are not eligible for a kerbside collection but it isn't impossible.https://recycleyourelectricals.org.uk will tell you your nearest electrical recycling places and should tell you more about the take-back schemes that the shops have to run.  Any shop selling more than a certain amount of batteries has by law to offer recycling of them eg you will find them in Sainsbury's although the collection points aren't always obvious.Recycle Now will also give you info where the nearest recycling places are.  We are lucky to have as much of a kerbside recycling service as we do as many countries don't.Sometimes friends and neighbours club together to take stuff to a recycling centre - we used to do that when fewer things could be recycled kerbside - BUT always be very wary of any unlicensed traders offering to take your waste in case it is disposed of illegally.

Philippa Bond ● 7d

and we can't recycle anymore, the containers by Sainsburys car park, long gone .

Isabel Martin ● 8d

'I very much agree that the need for extra bins will not be seen and actioned unless the bags are left beside them. ' But bags have been left by the bins for years now, this is nothing new, I don't understand how all of the sudden this is an issue now.  I'd like to know why a bin was removed not long after they were delivered , if damaged it could have been replaced, that extra bin is need it  I agree we can all do our part by trying squeeze cartons and plastic bottles , but that won't be enough , bins will still full up .

Isabel Martin ● 8d

There is a Householder's Duty of Care and there is a Waste Hierarchy.  The Waste Hierarchy begins with REDUCE which people often seem to forget.So it isn't just Councils' behaviour (or rather their sub-contractors') over the issuing of fines which has Govt guidance and which comes under scrutiny but that of residents themselves.At least one waste lorry a week has a fire because of carelessly discarded batteries and vapes etc and there are some items like these which can be recycled locally (eg batteries in shops which sell more than a certain amount).Instead of just throwing away everything we don't want we all need to make more effort to Repair, Reuse, Rehome and Repurpose things so as to extend the life of the earth's finite resources.https://www.hounslow.gov.uk/Landlords should also do more - and believe it or not some residents don't even know which London borough they are living in which doesn't help anybody!  

Philippa Bond ● 9d

I very much agree that the need for extra bins will not be seen and actioned unless the bags are left beside them.  BUT a lot of hard and unpraised work has been done to make packaging easier to dismantle and flatten and only of a single and  thinner and lighter material and I still see many unflattened biscuit and cereal boxes (mostly just needing the bottom to be undone) and unsquashed plastic milk and water and fizzy drink bottles.  What has happened to people's sense of volume and space nowadays?  Most packaging has instructions on it and so do Council and other websites. You wouldn't pack an inflated lilo in your suitcase would you?It is primarily a security issue leaving your address on any communications or packaging.  It helps to avoid your name and address being used in scams and fraud and so is something we're all advised it is best to avoid.  The stress and inconvenience of that can be immense.More collections mean more lorries, noise, traffic and congestion and maybe emissions, and cost.  Nobody ever seems to want to pay more for anything.It takes two to tango and people who have locked up and walked downstairs and on their way out somewhere eg the station with their waste and recycling obviously don't want to find they need to go all the way back again.  The same happens with big street recycling banks - if you've walked a long way you want to be able to use them and not find them overflowing - especially with large amounts of unflattened business waste that somebody should be paying separately for from householders' Council Tax!

Philippa Bond ● 9d

Over Christmas, according to the Hounslow website, there is no collection for 5 or 6 days .  There is going to be a mountain of bags by the bins LOL

Isabel Martin ● 10d

Correct. The ward improvement team is totally on board with that fact - that sacks next to a bin indicate that either more bins are needed or that collections should be more frequent. I favour more frequent collections so that we don't have to live with more street clutter - either in the form of bins or purple sacks left beside them.

Joanna Biddolph ● 11d

Don't put anything in your bags with your name and address on it!

Davey Harris ● 11d

With respect, Keith, I agree with the Councillor. Why would you expect putting out the trash would be criminalized? You buy into it when you suggest simply remove your name from your own household trash.Hounslow has failed. If not enough bins normally, what happens on bank holidays and Christmas when everyone knows trash increases?

David Lesniak ● 11d

Only if residents can leave their purple bags alongside a full 'grit bin' will the Council realise how much extra bin capacity they need.  Otherwise, everything will look OK!

Peter Evans ● 11d

I think Hounslow labour Council and the Labour Government compete as to  which is the most incompetant.

Chris Dakers ● 12d

We have never been informed of any alternatives if the bins are full. You would think leaving the bags by the bins should be ok , not ideal, but no other choice . They shouldn't fine anyone when they don't even tell you bags can't be left outside the bins  recently someone was fined for just an envelope  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0jd2l9e6epo

Isabel Martin ● 12d

I completely agree Joanna but if people don't leave their information in the rubbish there is no way the council can target anyone with their punitive fines.They cannot convict anyone for being guilty by association,although it wouldn't surprise me if they are actively looking for loopholes and working on ways to do that.

Keith Iddon ● 12d

I see no reason why I would not put addressed waste in a purple sack if I lived above a shop (as I used to do, in my first home in Chiswick) and was doing what I was expected to do. They should not have to disguise the fact that they are putting their waste out for collection; it is legitimate waste, not fly tipping. The fact that the council doesn't provide enough bins isn't residents' fault nor is the fact that the bins are filled with litter from passers-by leaving no space for residents' purple sacks. Some flats are very small and there is no space to keep waste sacks indoors. To be told to take the sacks back inside - when there is no guarantee that there will be space for them when they next try to put them out - speaks of a failed system, not of illegal acts by residents. Besides, in some roads, residents are asked to leave their purple sacks in a specific spot where there is no bin; they have no choice and are doing as instructed. Should their sacks be rifled through looking for identifying information? The system has failed. Residents should not be penalised for council failures.

Joanna Biddolph ● 12d

Obviously,but I would assume anyone with any nous would not leave addressed items in the rubbish.

Keith Iddon ● 12d

Presumably by looking through the contents of the bags left outside and checking for names and addresses on discarded paperwork?

Andrew Jones ● 12d

If the bins are communal and service several flats,how will the council know who to fine if some extra bags are left out next to them?

Keith Iddon ● 12d

@Joanna thank you for the update.  I must say this is been going on for a very long time, when we first had the bins , there was an additional one near my flat, and in a short time it was gone and never replaced. Not enough bins, in some places you see two bins next to each other but the next bin is far , it makes no sense it's just ridiculous and out of order to tell us to take the rubbish back home if bins are full 

Isabel Martin ● 12d

Thanks for posting this.  The ward improvement team recently walked along the whole of Chiswick High Road, Devonshire Road and Turnham Green Terrace looking at locations where more grit bins are needed for purple sacks as it is obvious, daily, that there isn't enough space in the existing bins for the needs of residents of flats above shops. I walked along the stretch of Chiswick High Road in Chiswick Gunnersbury ward, and the western sides of Devonshire Road and TGT with this officer discussing local problem hot spots (such as one block whose residents seem not to have been told that they must use a grit bin and who have been leaving their sacks randomly, not realising they were doing the wrong thing). We discovered that all grit bins had huge amounts of random litter in them; one was almost full, ensuring there was no space for purple sacks; the only option at these bins is to leave purple sacks on the pavement next to the bins.  The bins have since been emptied but might need to be emptied again. Additional grit bins were ordered and, the last time I checked, were waiting sign off for delivery. I will immediately email the enforcement team about this new absurd attack on residents who are trying to do the right thing.  If LBH can't provide enough grit bins, residents should not be penalised for leaving their waste next to the bins; they are not fly tipping. Of course this would be improved with better policies for waste and recycling including recycling for flats above shops; some communal recycling bins (in sensible places) for recycling eg large packaging; big skips so residents can get rid of waste they can't take to the Mortlake or Space Waye recycling/waste centres; and other ideas. Being penalised and fined for the council's policy failures is not acceptable.

Joanna Biddolph ● 12d

should be Chiswick Gunnersbury . It's not nice to see those bags piled up by the bins, but it's their own fault for not providing enough bins and not collecting enough days. 

Isabel Martin ● 12d

Remember thre good old days of weekly refise collection? LBH are at least consistent with their bullying proclamations to council tax payers and their readiness to fine us all.It's the here and now and the future folks.

Keith Iddon ● 12d

Isabel -Not that it should make a difference, but which ward are you in? That way the appropriate councillor/s can get this addressed ASAP.Utterly nuts.

David Lesniak ● 12d