Forum Topic

The Epstein ‘files’

Now I know this is nothing to do with Chiswick, but we get the occasional what’s happening in the world post on here, so here goes.I was convinced that Ghislaine Maxwell would get some sort of early release after Donald Trump got back into the White House, and I thought it was starting to go that way when she was recently moved to what by most accounts is a much ‘nicer’ prison.But if the Epstein files end up being released as seems increasingly likely after Trump’s u-turn on the issue, Ghislaine Maxwell is going to be in a lot worse position as regards any future release.I’m genuinely curious as to what’s going to come out - and what Michael Brown’s conspiracy theory grapevine is going to come up with.

Andrew Jones ● 118d144 Comments

I don't, Steve.

Andrew Jones ● 31d

Steve, I think most of UK now support Reform, much as I would love Kemi to get in, just don't see it happening at this stage.

Janice Evans ● 31d

“Or are you really a secret Reform supporter?”Don’t behave like a retard, Andrew.

Steve Taylor ● 31d

“ Forget it”Now that is an idiotic suggesting if ever I heard one. The electorate, especially the women, will never forget this fiasco by the Paedo Protectors Party!  Dream on! Hopefully Kemi is ready and fully prepared for May. If Stammer even lasts that long. Hopefully not because every day he is in office the country suffers and the world laughs.

Steve Taylor ● 31d

At which point you’d have a general election, and the party you say you don’t advocate would likely form a government.Forget it!I’d rather have another 3 years of this government than see Putin’s poodle’s smug smile in front of no. 10.Surely you see the dissonance between your saying you don’t advocate a Reform Government and your idiotic suggestion that all the women in the cabinet should resign? Or are you really a secret Reform supporter?

Andrew Jones ● 31d

“ And if they did resign? Well you’d end up with the cabinet comprised entirely of men -“That’s the whole point! It would show up this Government of men to be nothing more than a Paedo Protectors Party with no female support and rightfully bring this disgraceful, incompetent and immoral Government down.

Steve Taylor ● 31d

I did need to ask, as generally punishments aren’t self inflicted.Perhaps you’d like them to self flagellate as well as a sign of true remorse?And if they did resign? Well you’d end up with the cabinet comprised entirely of men - how’s that for modern looking inclusive government?Might be ok in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and some other countries but it would be putting the click back almost 100 years - women have featured as ministers since the 1920s.What a ridiculous suggestion.

Andrew Jones ● 31d

“ what do you feel that the appropriate punishment for "women in our Cabinet" should be Steve?”Oh dear, Andrew - really?  You need to ask! I thought it was pretty obvious that in the spirit of unity amongst women in support of the victims of Epstein’s crimes (all girls at the time of his crimes), they should resign from the Cabinet where the man in charge knowingly gave the job to Mandelson knowing that he was still in contact with the convicted paedophile. Hence the Labour Women MP Group spokeswoman calling it the Paedo Protectors Party. I thought that was a bit harsh but nevertheless that’s the way it was reported!  The punishment of the women in Cabinet MUST be self inflicted in order for it to have moral effect. It’s hypocrisy of the highest degree for them to bleat on about their ‘thoughts being first and foremost with the victims’. No it isn’t - their thoughts are first and foremost in hanging on to their jobs for as long as possible. It’s disgraceful.

Steve Taylor ● 31d

So furious that right-minded people of the world are uniting against sexual abuse of girls and women, Silly Steve ? And yet you continue to take the sexist view that only women should be punished. Astounding, disgusting and shameful.

Richard Greenhough ● 32d

And what do you feel that the appropriate punishment for "women in our Cabinet" should be Steve?

Andrew Jones ● 32d

So furious that women of the world are uniting against sexual abuse of girls and women, Richard?  Why is that?  So whilst I think that women in our Cabinet should be punished for supporting Starmer, and you think it’s silly, I guess you are furious that Maxwell is being punished and is in prison because no men have yet been charged.  Astounding. And disgusting. Shameful!

Steve Taylor ● 32d

It must be strange to be as silly as you and not minding showing the world that is the case, Silly Steve.

Richard Greenhough ● 32d

Well done - I see you got a room with Gintrough!

Steve Taylor ● 32d

Yawn.

Keith Iddon ● 32d

Dickie Gintrough and Keith Idiot should get a room and contemplate the fact that they can’t stand women’s solidarity. Is it because they can’t stand women and have no sympathy for Epstein’s victims who are 100% female? These two dullards are just terrified of the women’s solidarity on the abuse of girls. It’s sickening! 

Steve Taylor ● 32d

It's up to Trump now as Ghislaine seeks clemency.

Janice Evans ● 33d

Andrew, Ghislaine has said she will talk now, I think someone needs to.

Janice Evans ● 33d

A lot of the titles he was stripped of were ones he had purely by an accident of birth, and being a royal.King Charles has recognised that Andrew’s actions don’t sit well with the British (and wider) public and is in a position to do something about it.There’s been no significant contrition from Andrew.He hasn’t lost everything though, he has his liberty, and while I imagine his life is quite wretched these days, no one forced him into doing whatever he did - he had the power of choice, unlike many of Epstein’s victims.

Andrew Jones ● 33d

Yes indeed Richard as I said he has an arse about face way of looking at this.You have clearly explained the dynamics of what has transpired and he still thinks it's the women who should fall on their swords.He's just defending his silly opinion because he can't admit he got it wrong due to its basic unfairness.

Keith Iddon ● 33d

Women and men should be equally appalled by Epstein's crimes. This is all about solidarity between human beings of both sexes, much as you hate to accept it, Silly Steve. Sexist Steve thinks it’s ok for the men in Starmer’s  cabinet to stay put even though they are aware that Starmer knew about Mandelson’s links to the convicted paedophile, but the women should resign.

Richard Greenhough ● 33d

No male  victims have come forward regarding Epstein’s crimes. This is all about solidarity between women much as you hate to accept it Gintrough. “ Jeffrey Epstein papers give voice to the women in his sordid world”Women of the world have spoken. They are being heard but Gintrough thinks it’s ok for the women in Starmer’s  cabinet to stay put even though they are aware that Starmer knew about Mandelson’s links to the convicted paedophile.

Steve Taylor ● 33d

Epstein's crimes were against humanity, Silly Sexist Steve.

Richard Greenhough ● 33d

Epstein’s crimes were against women thicko Gintrough “Exc: Keir Starmer has been warned by female Labour MPs the party risks looking like a "paedo protectors party".The private comments came in this afternoon's meeting of the Women's PLP.Among them, Emma Lewell told the PM about her anger, having spent years working in child protection services. She said: “I can’t even begin to explain how much it hurts when people are screaming at me in the street that I am a member of the ‘peado protectors party’."Lewell stressed she wanted the PM to succeed but added: "You have said so many times now things will be different, each time it isn't."Tonia Antoniazzi also named several former senior male aides to Starmer and accused them of briefing against women. She added: "While you can list a load of women that work in No 10, do they actually have any power?"Paula Barker asked about Doyle's peerage, and Alison McGovern pressed the PM on how he plans to change the culture in No 10.There were other, more supportive voices during the roughly 40-minute meeting.”

Steve Taylor ● 33d

Still being sexist, Silly Steve ? Why should the women in the Cabinet be expected to resign when the men aren't ? Paedophile crimes are just as abhorrent to men as they are to women, especially to fathers of young women.

Richard Greenhough ● 33d

“Labour’s women MPs have been disgusted by the publication of Mandelson’s emails with convicted paedophile Epstein. After Starmer admitted he had KNOWN about the link between the pair, one female MP broke down in tears at the “betrayal of everything I’ve worked for and believed in”“We need to be honest that if a woman had been in that room when the decision was taken, Mandelson would never have been sent to Washington.”It is utterly disgusting that women still remain in Starmer’s Cabinet with the full knowledge that he appointed people to senior positions even though they had direct links to paedophiles. Epstein’s crimes were against underage girls. The women in Starmer’s cabinet are insisting that their thoughts are with the victims but clearly they aren’t. Their thoughts are about their jobs and their bank balances. They should totally distance themselves from Starmer.

Steve Taylor ● 33d

"Or perhaps just the product of a Labour education between 1945 and 1951?"Not me - I wasn't born then. But is that the reason why you have trouble with your spelling and grammar ? You are just so incredibly silly, aren't you, Silly Steve!!

Richard Greenhough ● 33d

You are just so incredibly thick aren’t you old Gintrough!! Or perhaps just the product of a Labour education between 1945 and 1951?

Steve Taylor ● 33d

That's just Davids opinion Steve, I'm wondering why without a trial as such, don't know how it all works, that he was stripped of everything, what about the others in the U.S.  I'm no fan by the way.

Janice Evans ● 33d

I note you don't even try to justify your sexism, Silly Steve.

Richard Greenhough ● 33d

“who has never done a hands turn in his life”Not defending Andrew but just pointing out that Burke is a liar. “Prince Andrew served in the Royal Navy for 22 years, from May 1979 until July 2001. He was a helicopter pilot and pilot instructor, seeing active service during the 1982 Falklands War as a Sea King helicopter co-pilot, and later commanded the mine countermeasures vessel HMS Cottesmore.”“Andrew receives an armed forces pension from his 22-year career in the Royal Navy (1979–2001), estimated at roughly £20,000 per year. As of early 2026, he is also eligible for a state pension, estimated at around £9,000–£9,500 annually. These are his primary declared, independent income”

Steve Taylor ● 33d

Point is, he's not the only one.

Janice Evans ● 33d

Because he is a lying entitled nasty piece of work who has never done a hands turn in his life.

David Burke ● 33d

I know we don't discuss Royals on here or ex Royal but why is Andrew theonly one to lose everything, not defending just wondering.

Janice Evans ● 33d

Starmer is not an  honourable or decent person. As far as I know there were no males victims of Epstein’s crimes. All females. Starmer has made political appointments of men known to have links with paedophiles. “ Starmer latest: Furious female Labour MPs demand PM end No10 ‘boys’ club’ after Mandelson and Doyle scandalsKeir Starmer faces calls to appoint de facto deputy in row over former aides with links to paedophiles”Women around the world are calling for unity and justice but our women cabinet  ministers refuse to relinquish their government posts controlled by the No. 10 Boys Club. Disgraceful. Utterly disgraceful.

Steve Taylor ● 33d

I joined those dots too Richard and thought it was an arse about face way of thinking about victims and perps.The mind boggleth.

Keith Iddon ● 34d

So you think that only women should resign from the cabinet on moral grounds while men have no such scruples and can stay put? That seems a highly sexist viewpoint.

Richard Greenhough ● 34d

There is sometimes a fine line between the expression of moral outrage and all-consuming hate. Starmer has thus far been a dreadful Prime Minister, who has made several major errors, including the appalling misjudgment of appointing Mandelson as Washington Ambassador. Richard Greenhough, who is manifestly no Labour supporter, has explained the possible reasoning behind this grave error in more kindly terms than you. I still believe Starmer is a decent man, but flawed. He is timid, fearful of the malign influence of Farage's populism (and consequently makes far too many concessions to Farage's anti-immigrant pitch, and is afraid to push the case for an accommodation with the EU), and he obviously, but misguidedly, wants, or wanted pre-Davos, to stay on good terms with Trump.To claim that Starmer is not an honourable or a decent person and that the women is his cabinet are "disgusting" because of an indirect connection, through Mandelson, with the monster Epstein is hyperbolic humbug of the first order.

Robert Fish ● 34d

It’s quite disgusting that any women choose to remain in Stammer’s Cabinet after he has admitted he knew about the link between between Mandelson and Epstein, yet he still appointed him. These women have sold their souls to keep their jobs. Disgraceful!!Hopefully all women will stand in solidarity with WASPI women and not vote Labour after Stammer has stabbed 3.6 million women in the back.

Steve Taylor ● 34d

The thing that makes the Mandelson- Epstein scandal (and Starmer's alleged cover up regarding the knowledge of that relationship) so much worse is the hypocrisy.Remember a few years ago when the Partygate affair first hit the news. Starmer, then leader of the ‘opposition', was all over that, playing the moral high ground and demanding the resignation of former PM Boris Johnson.This scandal is much, much worse. It makes Partygate seem quite trivial in comparison.If Starmer had anything like the moral decency and integrity that he claimed to be seeking to restore in his election campaign, he would do the honourable thing and resign as Labour party leader (and PM) by the end of the week.This fiasco is clear evidence that Starmer is not an honourable person or decent person. His position is completely untenable at this point.

Steve Taylor ● 34d

They are going to drag this one out, will we get a new name each week.

Janice Evans ● 35d

And that's because of my concern for Ukraine.

Janice Evans ● 35d

I can agree with you on that one Andrew.

Janice Evans ● 35d

Like you Janice, I don't see who would be an immediate replacement for our current PM, and I don't want there to be a general election.That's because I wouldn't want to see Nigel Farage as our PM. That would be the end of our support for Ukraine when Nigel cosies up to his buddy in the Kremlin.So yes, in spite of the car crash that this government has been for the majority of the time it's been in power, I am pleased to see Keir 'creeping back'.

Andrew Jones ● 35d

As to the Epstein files,who is the big profile"Foreign politician" seen by Republican Thomas Massie and Democrat Ro Khanna yesterday in unredacted photos relating to Epstein's island.

Julian Pavey ● 35d

Before we left Andrew, anyhow you should be pleased with Keir creeping back.

Janice Evans ● 35d

Hi Janice, are you saying we were treated badly before we chose to leave, or after we chose to leave? Or both?Don't worry, I have no intention of restarting the whole Brexit debate, just curious.

Andrew Jones ● 35d

And Andrew we were treated badly.

Janice Evans ● 35d

Andrew, I'm glad we (partly left).

Janice Evans ● 35d

Of course we have ties. The countries of the EU include Ireland ( the UK shares a land border with Ireland), France and the Netherlands which are three of the five closest  (geographically) countries to the UK.You may not have wanted the ties we still have with the EU, but the referendum wasn't a vote for breaking off all ties, it was about leaving the EU.And we have left the EU. You may not have got what you thought you were voting for, but you got the outcome that you ( and the majority of people who voted) chose on the referendum paper.I just wish those who voted to leave the EU would 'own' the consequences of how they chose to vote, rather than blaming others. The "daft deal" as you called it would never have been made,  if the referendum result had gone the other way. The UK electorate chose to take a leap into the unknown, and we now just have to try and make the best of it, which is down to the politicians, and since 2016 they haven't made a particularly good job of it.Some of us were sceptical about the easiest trade deal in history that Liam Fox promised after the result, and the remain camp failed to persuade the electorate to remain in the EU. Fair enough, and it was all 10 years ago.I'll repeat myself - we have left the EU.If you disagree about the fact that we've left the EU, then we'll just have to agree to disagree about it.

Andrew Jones ● 35d

But who could we trust to replace Keir, we have to ride the storm until the next election.

Janice Evans ● 35d

"And paying a corrupt Mauritian government £billions over a 99 year period for giving up our strategic territory"You couldn't make it up.

Denis I. Fox ● 35d

"..who would have thought that the UK would have a PM who handed a high paying job to a person with a  known paedophile connection.."It seems that Mandelson was seen as the best person to deal with Dumbass Donald, who was also close to Epstein. You could argue that Starmer took the view that the UK's relations with the President took precedence over other considerations. Meanwhile, Starmer & Co are still pushing ahead to hand over British territory in the Indian Ocean to Mauritius, and ignoring the interest of the Chagossians, who have been appallingly treated by successive British governments.

Richard Greenhough ● 35d

Davy, I say that because of World instability at the moment, also Keir made the same mistake as Boris and surrounded himself with many wrong people, I said that from the start.

Janice Evans ● 35d

Have to disagree Andrew as we still had ties, most never wanted.

Janice Evans ● 35d

Janice/Davy - you are both wrong.The question on the 2016 Ballot Paper was:Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union? The responses were:1) Remain a member of the European Union2) Leave the European UnionThere was a majority for option 2.The UK left the EU on 31st Jan 2020https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/councileu/items/663312/enYou may be in denial about how we left, but the UK did leave. If we hadn't left, then UK citizens would still be able to stay in other countries in the EU for as long as they wanted to. UK citizens have no automatic right to do that any more. Why? Because we aren't members of the EU any more.QED.

Andrew Jones ● 35d

The rot had settled in before the latest episode with Mandy.The week before, they were hoping Andy would get a place in the bi-election. The 24 intake was just hoping something would happen to remove Kier, but had no power themselves. The rot is not new.You kind of get the idea that this is all a new crisis, it's not

Julian Pavey ● 35d

It’s quite sickening that the cabinet ministers are so self serving that they are wanting Stammer to stay purely to save their own jobs for a while longer. And they bleat on about the same old nonsense about how they have changed things for the better. Lies, lies and more lies. The rot has well and truly set in.

Steve Taylor ● 35d

What can I say, other than Keir should stay, he probably won't though.

Janice Evans ● 35d

we didn't, but in any event these sour grapes are 10 years past their sell by date. Back to today, looks like he's just about clinging on, live a three toed sloth that's fallen asleep in the sun.

Davy Jones ● 35d

David protests started in Ireland in 2022 over immigration.

Janice Evans ● 35d

The vote was to leave, we never, did we.

Janice Evans ● 35d

If we hadn't voted for Brexit, we wouldn't have ended up with "the daft deal" would we?I've said it before, and I'll say it again, anyone who voted for Brexit was voting for the UK to leave the Eu, but as the terms of out leaving weren't agreed beforehand, they were also voting (IMO) for a more unpredictable and more unknown future.They may not have realised this at the time.

Andrew Jones ● 35d

"Ireland not better off for staying in" Compare Ireland before 1972 and now  it's been the making of the country.

David Burke ● 35d

Nothing wrong with Brexit, the daft deal was the problem, and look at Ireland they are not better off for staying in are they.

Janice Evans ● 35d

And everyone with a semblance of a brain knew that Brexit would be a disaster. They’re proved right over and over and over. And anyone with a semblance of a brain knew that this Labour Government would be a disaster and, oh boy, they are so right.  It’s no surprise at all that this  government has all but collapsed in under two years. And who would have thought that the UK would have a PM who handed a high paying job to a person with a  known paedophile connection. It’s utterly disgraceful. Evil!! Not a mistake a recent person would have made.

Steve Taylor ● 35d

They said something similar about the Brexit referendum in 2016.

Andrew Jones ● 36d

The country voted for change. Stammer hasn’t delivered. He can’t deliver and he doesn’t want to deliver. He is surrounded by people almost as incompetent as he is. A General Election will do the trick and Deliver us from Evil.

Steve Taylor ● 36d

No, it will just get worse, it's been a disaster, but I hope no more changes.

Janice Evans ● 36d

> as sad as it is that there is not much choice for a replacement,True Janice, and as predicted McSweeney has fallen on his sword. will this be enough - (will Mr Benn put on a PM suit?)

Davy Jones ● 36d

Here it's someone who continually takes from others and gives nothing in return, there used to be couples like it, they were called ponses, so whatdo you call those types in Wales.

Janice Evans ● 37d

It was certainly a homophobic slur in Wales.

Stewart Jones ● 37d

All good, Andrew. I know Mandelson is gay. Hard not to know. Like you, I often delve into a dictionary for clarity especially as a stranger in a strange land. I have yet to determine the accuracy or reliability of AI. I do refer to it, just not in an example like this one.My takeaway on ponce, like fag, is that it is British colloquial. And like "homosexual" in this day and age all can be offensive. At home, fag means one thing. Here it means several and gets bandied about, a bit like ponce, without proper consideration. Seems generational and also regional. 

David Lesniak ● 37d

“ INFORMAL•BRITISH ENGLISH - Ponce seek to obtain (something) without paying for it or doing anything in return.”Any of you think he is a nonce?

Steve Taylor ● 37d

It was a homophobic slur in Yorkshire too. Perhaps it's fallen into desuetude because we live in more civilised times (the age of woke?). Even so, I'd avoid the use of it on a public forum in relation to a known homosexual.

Robert Fish ● 37d

I’m familiar with these other uses of ponce too. But definitely was a homophobic slur in my corner of south London when I was lad. Glad to know it wasn’t so widely used.

David Turner ● 38d

I know the type.Thank you all for an interesting and enlightening discussion.My take away from it is that it's a derogatory word, but not necessarily homophobic or offensive.

Andrew Jones ● 38d

My description of a ponce- for what it's worth.The guy who's always hanging round a social gathering, cadging a fag, pinching your chips, wandering off when it's his turn to buy a round.We all know that guy, there's one in every football, cricket, hocky team, or playgroup or office.And he's often the most wealthy.

Denis I. Fox ● 38d

Janice, I agree with you, lots of words have different meanings, and I rarely look in the dictionary - couple of times a year perhaps?But, if I understand a word differently to you, and we are discussing it, it can be helpful (for both of us) to see what other meanings a word can have and a dictionary is ideal for that.Like you say, words have to be read in context, but identical phrases can easily have different interpretations.

Andrew Jones ● 38d

Haha! Poncing about then flouncing off?

Robert Fish ● 38d

Robert,think what you like.I'm going to stop poncing about arguing the toss now and get on with watching Manchester United beat Spurs(hopefully).Have a lovely day.

Keith Iddon ● 38d

Peter Mandelson is gay. He was referred to as the Ponce of Darkness. OED says that ponce can be considered offensive, and another online dictionary (merriam-webster) says the following – ponce, noun British Offensive: a gay man, used as a term of abuse and disparagement.I read Keith's post as using the word "ponce" in an intentionally derogatory way - which is why I added IMHO.He says that wasn't his intention, and I accept that. There are obviously other meanings, and you have come across an non derogatory one. Have I explained myself sufficiently David?

Andrew Jones ● 38d

You must surely have been aware of the more derogatory use of "ponce". It's long been used for gays. See what Google's AI has to say on the subject (David Lesniak take note, as well):"Ponce (and its adjective form, poncey or poncy) has a clear homophobic connotation in British English, often used as an offensive, derogatory term for a gay man or a man perceived to be effeminate. "Here is a breakdown of the usage and meanings:Homophobic Slur: It is frequently used to insult men based on stereotypes regarding their sexuality, dress, or behavior, implying they are not sufficiently masculine.Other Meanings: Historically and commonly, it also means a pimp (a man who controls prostitutes).General Derogatory Use: Beyond its homophobic usage, it is also used to describe a man who is overly pretentious, vain, or fussy."Context: While some may use it to describe mere affectation or vanity, the word carries a high risk of being perceived as homophobic and is often considered a taboo word in polite conversation. " The word has roots in 20th-century British slang and Polari (a form of slang used by some gay men)."

Robert Fish ● 38d

Sorry David Turner.

Janice Evans ● 38d

Robert,I was being neither homophobic nor careless in my choice of word.On the contrary,I chose the word very carefully.In my opinion he is far nearer to being a ponce in the sence in which I mean it than a prince in any sense of the word.A little like that other freeloading ponce Andrew.If you have a pipe,that's something that you can put in it and smoke.

Keith Iddon ● 38d

Andrew, lots of words have different meanings, don't think we all look in the dictionary, just read in context.

Janice Evans ● 38d

My reply was to David.

Janice Evans ● 38d

Davey, as bad as it is, and as sad as it is that there is not much choice for a replacement, my thoughts are with world issues it's not a good time to change P.M.  Boris had to go for much less i know, but  but we should look at thing overall.

Janice Evans ● 38d

For the simple reason Janice that sometimes people think they know what a word means, and actually it can mean something else instead, or it can have additional meanings to what people understand it to mean.Given we are discussing the word 'ponce' which is considered by many as a derogatory term, I thought it worth referring to an authoritative source, rather than just the forum word of mouth.

Andrew Jones ● 38d

Well that is new to me.

Janice Evans ● 38d

I don't think it was that widely used in that context. Something for nothing in my book, as in scrounging. Then you have poncing, which was used for wasting time, as in stop poncing about and get on with it. I think ponce came from other wording and meaning before, and became other words and meanings later.

Julian Pavey ● 38d

Jayne, a lady friend said her husband was in A & E for 3 days,  however operations like cateract removal they seem to be doing more of, I think one of the problems here is people bypassing the doctor to go to A & E becausethey don't understand these new systems doctor's are using and find it impossible to contact them. I do think Wes is trying but he don't seem to get the support he needs from others.  And new systems are used without informing patients enough.

Janice Evans ● 38d

In the 70s and 80s ‘Ponce’ was sometimes used as a pejorative term for a gay man.

David Turner ● 38d

Andrew, how is "ponce" homophobic?As a gay guy, I'd genuinely like to understand.When I look it up, it mentions something about being effete. Now, if you assume all effete men are (A) gay and (B) bad, it would seem you're the one who is homophobic.

David Lesniak ● 38d

Why would you have to look up a word like that, I've always known it to mean what Keith has said.

Janice Evans ● 38d

I'd trust the Oxford English Dictionary more when looking up definitions of wordshttps://www.oed.com/dictionary/ponce_n?tl=true

Andrew Jones ● 38d

It means exactly what Keith said.

Janice Evans ● 38d

You may choose to deny it, but most of us know exactly what you implied by the use of the word ponce. It may be that the verb ponce is a synonym for scrounge, but the only two regular uses of the noun mean an affected/effete man or one who lives off the earnings of prostitutes. If we allow that you were not being deliberately homophobic, we can at least say you were very careless in your choice of word.

Robert Fish ● 38d

In the starting blocks again in the race to be the first one taking offence I see,Andrew.But before you get your underwear too much in a twist,in my book a ponce is a freeloader or one who prospers from the wealth of others.So sorry to disappoint.

Keith Iddon ● 38d

"Ponce of Darkness"?Clever, but homophobic (IMHO)

Andrew Jones ● 38d

Not sure if he's in 'lettuce land' yet but most the papers, including the Guardian and Mirror, and online such as the BBC, are speculating on how long he can keep going. Word is his reputation, loyalty, and authority are all compromised. Who will pop up, to throw the first stone?

Davy Jones ● 38d

Looks like the Ponce of Darkness is having his London and Swindon homes turned over by the bobbies

Keith Iddon ● 38d

Mr Burke, be careful you don't fall off that Gumtree, as Chris Bryant, Minister of Trade did in 2022.Bryant accused Farage of receiving £500,000 from Russian states. A full parliamentary enquiry followed and Bryant was forced to apologise to Parliament for his false accusation.Needless to say he couldn't force himself to Farage personally.

Denis I. Fox ● 39d

Mandelson obviously got a kick out of prancing around in his underpants. I agree with the sentiments that this government should be stepping up the investigation around the grooming gangs in the north as well as Kahn’s London. The victims are allegedly even far younger than Epstein’s victims. Meanwhile government ministers are aggrieved that the Mandelson saga is taking up so much media time because they want to talk about the fact that they secured fifty more places in a Breakfast club in the Midlands. Surprised Stammer is still in office today when it seems his entire party is disgusted with his behaviour. His whining gets more and more pathetic every day. The expensive elocution therapy hasn’t worked at all - if anything he is more nasal than ever. His successor is doomed from day one because people won’t forget Stammer’s incompetence just as Rishi had to suffer the consequences of Truss and Bojo’s failings.

Steve Taylor ● 39d

They won’t release anything that implicates Trump…….it is truly shocking how are country is really being run, a bunch of self serving muppets. Starmer is toast but there are no one capable of doing the job, Angela would be the death for this country what a sad party bunch of pathetic individuals. Does anyone trust politicians????? Think it is everyone for themselves……Mandelson should be prosecuted for sending confidential emails whilst in government this alone is shocking. Not sure he had any idea of the scale of scary going on but then any abuse is totally unacceptable. Totally agree about Pakistani grooming gangs deport the lot…….its happening under our nose and yet we do nothing it is truly shocking.

Jayne Thorburn ● 39d

My sentiments also Keith.Understandable, and yet so easy for the establishment to publicly state heartfelt sorrow for the vulnerable young girls exposed to adult men's sexual gratification, all arranged by the evil Epstein and Starmer's appointed Prince of Darkness.Where was the Blob's compassion and urgency to pursue Pakistani rape gangs exploiting our vulnerable young girls? Nowhere.The fear of being branded racist certainly and in some Midlands constituencies, fear of losing votes caused the inertia.

Denis I. Fox ● 39d

There's much more to come out, apparently Farage has been mentioned thousands of times implications of Russian gangsters/ oligarchs and money laundering  also connections between Trump.and Putin.Mandelson in the dock ( deservedly) might be just the start.

David Burke ● 39d

"This could imply a significant lapse in judgment, naivety, arrogance, or a combination of all three."Or ignorance - is it clear that he knew he was being photographed ? I wouldn't put it past Epstein to have had spy cameras dotted around his properties.

Richard Greenhough ● 40d

It's a shame that there isn't the same ongoing concern for the victims of the rape gangs in Britain and in getting to the bottom of which officials,councillors,social workers,police and whoever else was aware of what was happening and ignored it because of political expediency.Anyone know what is happening into the inquiry on that btw? After all the circumstances and realities of the rapes were far more wretched and squalid and the girls far more numerous.

Keith Iddon ● 40d

The interior of the buildings looked very clinical, where it was supposed to be for training masseuses, we've not seen any nakedness so far, although there is much more evidence to get through,

Janice Evans ● 40d

At least he didn't tuck his shirt into them!

Robert Fish ● 40d

What I find most surprising is why Mandelson allowed himself to be photographed in his underpants. This could imply a significant lapse in judgment, naivety, arrogance, or a combination of all three.

Chris Blackwell ● 40d

"After his pathetic, stammering ‘performance’ at PMQs today he should resign immediately."Be careful what you wish for - in the same way that Boris was replaced by Liz Truss, Starmer could be replaced by Angela Rayner.

Richard Greenhough ● 40d

Surreal situation re Mandy……if i hear one more time they have reduced waiting list in NHS i will scream. I read an article where an NHS spokesperson stated that the reduction in waiting list is due to cleaning their databases?????? Removed people who had died, went private or no longer needed treatment for whatever reason is the reason for the reduction in waiting list. This government either is so incompetent they don’t understand the numbers or are deliberately not telling the whole truth seems to be a common thread with this lot. The spokesperson went on to say the NHS is in crisis.

Jayne Thorburn ● 40d

After his pathetic, stammering ‘performance’ at PMQs today he should resign immediately. He has absolutely no leadership qualities and he commands no respect.  He just make mistake after mistake and the whole country suffers because of his gross incompetence and bad judgement. We can only be grateful that he never became a Judge.

Steve Taylor ● 40d

It's changing by the minute, and now Labour MPs say they will vote down the plan to limit Mandelson disclosures, so now they are not going to have that vote for further humiliation. I said last year starmer wont last 2026, not for these reasons, but i think he is a gonner within 31 days.

Julian Pavey ● 40d

Epstein probably made money by procuring and trafficking under age girls for politicians, wealthy businessmen and other paedophiles. Probably also made money by blackmailing them.

Steve Taylor ● 41d

Epstein made his money in finance. There is an interesting article from 2002 in the New York magazine, well worth readinghttps://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/n_7912/

David Turner ● 41d

But the question that I keep asking is where did Epstein's money come from. I don't believe he earned it himself.Was it from Russia?  Honey trap stuff tends to be a tradition there.Or was it Robert Maxwell's money - I sort of doubt that.Epstein and Ghislaine seem to have been working round the clock "looking" after so many of these rich people and filming them and giving them money- how could  they afford it and why?

Jackie Elton ● 42d

Trump’s involvement will of course be of great interest to the American people but this government must now focus on the behaviour of man who was a senior Labour minister who allegedly took money from Epstein and passed confidential  governmental email data to him. The man who became a Labour Peer and the man who Starmer appointed to the most senior ambassadorial position in the world. What is of interest to the people of this country is how much info Starmer  was aware of and why he still appointed the Labour Peer to the position.

Steve Taylor ● 42d

It's all smoke and mirrors.

Janice Evans ● 42d

That's the point Janice, you won't.

Mark Frost ● 42d

I see Norway and France are now involved.

Nicholas Beard ● 42d

Brown is fuming at the revelations. Looks like the Met have been called in. Will Mandy end up behind bars? And McSweeney might be Tod after all this

Davy Jones ● 42d

Something that I have often wondered is when people have allegedly taken money have they paid tax on it and if not why haven't they been investigated for tax evasion.

Nicholas Beard ● 42d

Then you should have a look at this, Janice: https://youtu.be/8E1DzfeB31g?si=LyYID2O6H1_-aVYHI'm a little sceptical about the report, because I haven't seen anything similar in any serious publication/media. However, The Trump Report is hosted by Times Radio, and I can't imagine Murdoch would sanction anything that might induce Trump to try and enrich himself further with a defamation action.

Robert Fish ● 42d

Doesn’t look good for Mandelson, suspect there is more to come out once people have looked through the files including some financial connections that will prompt further questions.

David Turner ● 43d

Not sure having now read up on it Felicity.

Janice Evans ● 43d

I see the weasel (with apologies to weasels) Mandelson has resigned from the Labour Party over this.I suppose he now hopes it will all go away.

Keith Iddon ● 43d

You are right that we have to wait and see the full extent of his involvement and his crimes, but any hope that he is not implicated is long gone.

Felicity Caborn ● 43d

We will have to wait and see then.

Janice Evans ● 43d

Janice, this narrative was thoroughly debunked some time ago. Trump has certainly not been cleared of any involvement and the files that are being released continue to show how deeply implicated he and nearly all of his associates were implicated in Epstein's offending. Remember, he effectively controls what is released so the logical conclusion is that there is much worse that we are not seeing.

Felicity Caborn ● 43d

Looks like Trump is cleared of any involvement, he and Jeffrey fell out very early on over Jeffrey enticing Trumps staff to work for himself, apparently.

Janice Evans ● 43d

" But if the Epstein files end up being released as seems increasingly likely after Trump’s u-turn on the issue, Ghislaine Maxwell is going to be in a lot worse position as regards any future release."Exactly my thoughts. Certainly if she shared Epstein's opinion of Trump as among the worst people he'd ever met as has already appeared, in a leaked email.Unless that is she disagreed with Epstein. "Oh no Donald is a wonderful person !" michael adams

Michael Adams ● 117d

Of course. Only a total moron would advocate for her release. (Or her family who no doubt would claim insanity of some sort due to her weird upbringing and allegedly abusive father) She must be damaged.

Steve Taylor ● 117d

I realise that Andrew, was just asking out of interest.

Janice Evans ● 117d

Just to be clear, it seems beyond doubt that Ghislaine is very, very guilty of a lot of awful stuff and I am not advocating her release. I expect everyone here realises that.

Andrew Jones ● 117d

“ Do you think Ghislaine should still be in prison.”Of course she should. She procured underage girls for Epstein and his clients She should stay in prison for the full term and, if anything else about her crimes is revealed in the Epstein Files, she should stand trial again and possibly have her term extended so she dies in prison. She is a wicked woman. Obsessed with  money.

Steve Taylor ● 118d

Trump has probably been preparing for this outcome since the moment he was elected President. He may not know exactly what is in the files but he knows what might be and is terrified of this getting out. Anyone who continues to believe that a deeply amoral man didn't get up to some pretty terrible things during his long association with a sex trafficker is delusional. There are threee keys necessary to unlock the files - those owned by the executive, the judiciary and the legislature. Trump can't withhold his own key, and the legislature now has finally presented its one. This makes the role of the Attorney General critical.It has become so much clearer now why Trump tried so hard to get Matt Gaetz a thoroughly sleazy individual who would have been on the first plane to Epstein Island had he been invited. He was so profoundly distasteful that even MAGA Republicans couldn't be persuaded to accept his nomination.Trump had to fall back on Bondi, who once did have some integrity and back in 2013 was set to launch a big investigation into the Trump University scam as the Florida AG. She scrapped it after large donations from the Trump organisation which undoubtedly were made in a way that Trump could ruin her if she didn't stay onside.She remains totally his creature and has quite widespread authority to be a gatekeeper on what is released and what gets redacted. She will probably have to through some people who appear in the files to the dogs (and they will probably thoroughly deserve it) but any mention of her controller will be excised.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 118d

Do you think Ghislaine should still be in prison.

Janice Evans ● 118d

Trump is known to buck the trend. He acts defiantly most of the time. He loves the power and he loves to shock. And he doesn’t listen to advice!!!

Steve Taylor ● 118d

Jayne is spot on.

Janice Evans ● 118d

There's the Epstein files and there's the Epstein files.

Mark Frost ● 118d

Give the outrage about Epstein and gossip about Trumps close relationship I don't think even he would want to be seen to release her early. The only way she will get an early release is if she has evidence about him but then I guess she values her life!!

Jayne Thorburn ● 118d

Trump still has the power to pardon her whenever he pleases. His last comment on the matter was that nobody had, as yet, asked him to pardon her!

Steve Taylor ● 118d