Forum Topic

£1,000 envelope in Hounslow

Is anyone else really angry about the story on the radio news this morning that the London Borough of Hounslow has fined a lady from Feltham £1,000 for 'fly tipping' a cardboard envelope (with her name and address left on) outside her flat, on top of a pile of boxes, as there was no room for it in the overflowing bin? It is said they are doing this as an example and to crack down on fly tipping and they will not back down, even though the lady concerned can ill afford it, suffering as a result, and insisting the entire fine is paid in one go, as they do not offer payment plans. They have, however, given her a further 30 days to pay it (their generosity of spirit knows no bounds). It seems that they want to line their coffers from innocent individuals, while big companies get away with so much more. Absolutely dreadful and scary to say the least!I would be interested to know how many users or companies have been fined for ebikes abandoned on pavements, sometimes in great numbers at a time, which block them and create further hazards for those of us who use them. None, I'm sure.I do hope there will be further (peaceful) protest about this and the lady concerned is exonerated, rather than martyred. Meantime, always remove personal details from everything and shred them!

Richard Evans ● 10d49 Comments

The Fix My Street online reporting specifically instructs you NOT to report or accuse anyone of Flytipping even when you know exactly who it is, where they live, or have photos of them and their vehicle with registration number etc. This seems to indicate that Councils don’t want to be bothered with prosecuting serial flytippers or one off flytippers!

Steve Taylor ● 18m

All of Hounslow's recycling is sold to professional recycling contractors usually within the UK (except cardboard which is often sold overseas because the UK lacks capacity for recycling cardboard).The residual waste (ie what's in a wheelie bin or street bins or flytipping) from the 6 local authorities that are in West London Waste is taken by train from Brentford or I think Hayes to a large incinerator near Bristol, where it is burnt as fuel. I was told it served 30,000 homes and produced less pollution than 4 Range Rovers.

Guy Lambert ● 2h

Peter I remember on the dump near to Eltorne park in Hanwell in the fifties a constant stream of lorries carrying ashes from incinerated rubbish. I don't know where the incinerating took place but it must have been a big operation.

Nicholas Beard ● 6h

Meanwhile 'genuine' fly tipping is happening all over the place, but obviously isn't so easy to extort money from as someone pouring coffee dregs down the drain or letting an envelope blow out of their recycling bin. In my younger days, everything went on the fire, from screwed up newspapers to food left-overs, maybe even including polystyrene packaging.  What a great cosy blaze it all made, which reduced to a few shovels of ashes!  We could do away with all this sifting and sorting if everything went straight into modern incinerators and produced some useful energy.

Peter Evans ● 11h

As Hounslow's only Green councillor (only became that a couple of weeks ago having resigned from the Labour group early this year) I can assure you my personal view of this regime is extremely negative.I am currently dealing with 5 people who have been fined £1000 for flytipping and in no case have any of them flytipped. 4 of them used an overflowing bin (the one they were supposed to use for recycling). The other one is the owner of a micro business whose business is teaching people to knit. Her private landlord does not provide a recycling bin at her office so she took some cardboard in which she had received some wool and dropped it in a council estate cardboard recycling bin on her walk home.  I heard this morning of another person who is accused of living in a place where she is not known and has been fined a bargain £500 for (I think) using the same bin as the other 4. Since she has been served with notice at a place where she is not known by the owners the council and its agent for this genius service (APCOA, better knwon for car parks) are unlikely to get a payment. I have asked whether these fines benefit the council or are pocketed by the agent as was the arrangement with the previous provider. Under the same contract that covers Ealing and Harrow as well as Hounslow, they have got in the press for fining a 5 year-old £1000 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rjmp3z2nvoI have not discussed this with senior Green colleagues (I haven't met them yet!) but I would be very surprised if they support this extortion.I do bang on about this in my weekly Blog including last week's exciting episode.https://www.guylambert.blog/post/blog-504-13th-november-2025

Guy Lambert ● 11h

But at the moment hundreds of items are packed in polystyrene and people are flytipping it because councils don’t offer any free solution to get rid of it. People are simply not prepared to pay anything over and above their Council Tax to dispose of waste materials. Wait until after Xmas to see the loads of polystyrene dumped on streets. The councils offer no solutions.

Steve Taylor ● 20h

Expanded polystyrene is used a lot less now.  There are alternatives like eggbox mashed paper being increasingly used and reused cardboard that has been lattice cut which stretches around articles being packed.  Some of the packaging that looks like those polystyrene packaging pieces/peanuts (like a small bag of a potato snack) are actually made of starch and disappear when wet.  Air filled recyclable plastic bags are also being used a lot.If you get big electrical items delivered by the company you buy from you can get all the packaging taken away as well as the old appliance free or for a small fee which is well worth the hassle of organising a licensed collector to collect and take away or trying to do it yourself.I'd rather not get it but polystyrene chunks can be used to reduce the amount of potting compost needed in large planting containers.  I remember it being used for sculpture years ago and being cut with a hot wire.  I'm not sure that happens now  as we worry more about toxic fumes and all those little bits getting everywhere.  I seem to remember it being collected together and compressed.  Those big companies that sell items packaged like this could/should and perhaps already do that?

Philippa Bond ● 1d

You cannot burn it either, think it's toxic.

Janice Evans ● 2d

I’ve noticed that polystyrene is constantly flytipped. White goods, TVs etc are still being packed in polystyrene for protection. Many people break it up a bit and put it in recycling boxes but the Council won’t take it so the recycling people just jump it on the pavement. Hence many people just flytip it directly. Breaking it up to put it in black bags in wheelie bins doesn’t really work either because it takes up far too much space. The council needs to address this.

Steve Taylor ● 2d

I’ve noticed that polystyrene is constantly flytipped. White goods, TVs etc are still being packed in polystyrene for protection. Many people break it up a bit and put it in recycling boxes but the Council won’t take it so the recycling people just jump it on the pavement. Hence many people just flytip it directly. Breaking it up to put it in black bags in wheelie bins doesn’t really work either because it takes up far too much space. The council needs to address this.

Steve Taylor ● 2d

An overview of UK recycling:https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/shopping-sustainably/article/how-to-recycle-in-the-uk-ajwEz4p63Qs6

Philippa Bond ● 2d

But we know that's not true.  It's only difficult if you've never done it before and it gets easier with practice.  Regulations for Business/Commercial waste changed recently and those for Household Waste will be changing in the future.  It's on the Govt website.There is no magic "away" in "throw it away".  It's costing us all and the environment a fortune when it is not dealt with correctly.  Just look at that recently reported enormous illegal flytip in Kidlington, Oxfordshire.  We all have to be responsible for what we buy and what we do with what we no longer want.

Philippa Bond ● 2d

We all recycle - I do too. But let's admit it's a total waste of time and effort, a nice feel-good activity for bored busy bodies who like to show their virtues off. That's the 'terrible shame'

Davy Jones ● 4d

I would imagine a huge fine and TV and radio coverage is a lot more successful is getting the message across that there are actually some rules and regulations for disposing of your waste - I only wish it wasn't necessary. Perhaps we should be thanking those who have been fined for creating that necessary publicity?  It is a terrible shame that with all the teaching that should be happening in schools (recycling and reuse of materials/resources occurs three times IIRC in the National Curriculum), parents should be setting an example to their children (if it isn't the other way around), landlords and their Agents should be informing and managing their tenants, Councils should be more proactive in putting information out in good formats AND Governments should be far more active in making sure that there are enough Environment Agency staff to deal with the regulation of waste licences and facilities - and follow up on all the tip offs that residents and newspapers give them.

Philippa Bond ● 4d

“ Hounslow (and other local authorities) seems to have created an enforcement system designed to ensnare the innocent and give a free pass to the guilty.”I think it’s more a case of having a system designed to ensnare those without a brain and give a free pass and a heads up to those with innovative or cunning ways to buck the system. Fly tipping is encouraged purely because the Council prohibits one from reporting serial offenders.  I too would be interested to know how the Greens would deal with this huge problem!  Their Leader was ridiculously pathetic on Newsnight yesterday, unable to answer direct questions on immigration or finances and the Reform representative able to run rings around him.

Steve Taylor ● 5d

What these cases seem to have in common is that the people fined left the evidence that was used to against them, completely unaware that leaving it there could be possible construed as flytipping. Anyone who was actually knowingly dumping a significant amount of waste illegally would take care to remove anything that could be used to identify them. Hounslow (and other local authorities) seems to have created an enforcement system designed to ensnare the innocent and give a free pass to the guilty.

Mark Evans ● 5d

Unfortunately many people in this country don't take pride in their work and consequently fail to gain the sense of achievement that follows!  Is their brief to do it well or just finish it fast as possible?  Perhaps that is because good work isn't valued enough?  With the constant fragmentation of working systems with so many workers not being overseen or managed as a cost saving effort with robotically made appointments where inadequate information exchange is possible an incredible amount of time is wasted and frustration accrued.

Philippa Bond ● 7d

I would be interested to know the policy of the Green Party on exemplary fines for flytipping. I hope that it is kinder on people who have merely made a mistake, or been unable to dispose of their waste through the approved means (due to overflowing bins etc). As the Green Party in London is now more popular than the Labour Party, and likely to be one of its main competitors in the May '26 elections, we should know how they will deal with flytipping and related issues.

Peter Burgess ● 7d

I tried phoning Hounslow council on Monday re a parking permit. No one could be bothered to pick up a phone. I now assume the staff were out in Hounslow trying to find someone to fine a thousand pounds for placing an envelope in a recycling bin.

Chris Dakers ● 7d

“ yes, every time it’s a waste collection day there is a trail of litter on the street as a result.  Including envelopes. We just have to clear up after them.”And that is a diabolical situation that waste collection days mean more plastics and paper being strewn across streets and pavements purely because of a lackadaisical approach to work by the recycling people and a lack of discipline by managers. It doesn’t happen in any other European countries I have visited or parts of the USA and Australia, NZ and South Africa where the recycling teams take pride in their work. Interestingly I noticed in Cape Town, where recycling is put in huge transparent bags, the poor and homeless empty all the items on the pavement and rummage through it to take what they need and then they carefully repack the bags and leave the pavements spotless!  It’s a sight to behold. One is encouraged to reward these poor people for this consideration of the environment and the beauty of areas they could never afford.

Steve Taylor ● 7d

We need to see our waste as a resource and not just as something WE don't want.Nowadays we are bombarded by so much different information on different media as everyone collects our data and clamours for our attention with increasing hysteria that means important info can be missed.  We used to see eye-catching picture posters with short informative messages on noticeboards outside public buildings.  I particularly remember good Hounslow posters reminding residents not to put their black waste sacks out too early.  I saw these on my twice weekly visits to the Fountains Leisure Centre.What happens to all the work eg those sort of posters (obviously not exactly that one but in that sort of public place) but that sort of info which needs to be repeated to some extent with each new generation and a transient population?The whole family reads these informative posters. They aren't just lost in amongst thousands of other emails behind a password!

Philippa Bond ● 8d

Indeed, Philippa. Everyone should take responsibility.Hounslow should also take responsibility, but it never does.Thanks for defending Hounslow for this indefensible situation.

David Lesniak ● 8d

As Cllr Thompson has said the whole policy and approach needs reviewing. If somebody is caught speeding for going 5 miles over the speed limit versus 3 times over the speed limit , the penalty must be different.  It’s simple justice and common sense.  The current regime is oppressive and incompetent. It also creates a lot of work for Councillors who have to fight the cases. Not fair on them either. And yes, every time it’s a waste collection day there is a trail of litter on the street as a result.  Including envelopes. We just have to clear up after them. While we clear up the leaves.

Jackie Elton ● 8d

Not at all shocking as each and every one of us should be taking responsibility for our actions instead of expecting to offload all responsibility elsewhere.  Who dumped the unflattened cardboard?  Why when changes in packaging design has made it so much easier?  You can get more in a bin if you do - more space for everyone to put their cardboard in, fewer UNNECESSARY collections, less traffic, congestion, danger and pollution. Can't be bothered - or need help?  We ALL need to be bothered and sometimes help is needed and only has to be asked for.  It is a shared world!

Philippa Bond ● 8d

Shocking no one has mentioned the overflowing bin in the first place. Seems Hounslow's underperformance or lack thereof is part of the problem. Why are they not being held to account for failure to collect? Surely that is the root cause. Otherwise everything would be contained properly. Clearly it wasn't. And rarely ever is. Just watch the trash in LBH bags collect by the LBH bins on the High Road. People are supposed to leave trash in their homes because LBH can't sort out collection???Issuing a fine of this magnitude is absurd. Intent is clear. This woman tried her best. She did not fail. The system failed her. Pointless punishment for a well-meaning individual.

David Lesniak ● 8d

Problem is after bins have been emptied there is often some litter left scattered around,  so our litter could be left lying around (not by us).

Janice Evans ● 9d

Organised crime gangs do the largest scale stuff and it’s not just a London issue, as the attached link shows. But there are ways of tackling it that don’t involve victimising residents who make an innocent mistake.But it takes time and money to combat the gangs and it’s easier to pick on the little guys, of course.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y4dxlgkp4o

Simon Hayes ● 9d

Suppose ther is no way of charging those actually fly tipping.

Janice Evans ● 9d

It’s not helped by some local authorities charging ridiculous amounts for disposal of certain items at the waste and recycling centres. That just encourages people to find other ways of getting rid of things they don’t want.The persistent belief held by certain left leaning types is that people will always do the right thing even though all the evidence is that the opposite is true.The levels of fines for these ‘offences’ that are simply honest mistakes is utterly disproportionate, particularly when councils often fail to find and punish the large scale fly-tippers who are the real culprits.It’s quite obvious that this isn’t a deterrent but a revenue raising exercise. We don’t live in a police state but councils increasingly act as if we do.

Simon Hayes ● 9d

Many local councils set different penalty levels and offer early payment discounts to distinguish between real fly-tipping and simple household mistakes.Neighbouring Hammersmith & Fulham provides a clear and balanced model:• £1,000 FPN (reduced to £500 if paid within 10 days) – reserved for true fly-tipping, such as mattresses, white goods, bulky items or construction waste.• £250 FPN (reduced to £200) – used where normal domestic waste is put out incorrectly (e.g., a single bag or small household item left out at the wrong time).This approach ensures enforcement targets actual fly-tippers and does not unfairly pressure residents.Hounslow has taken a stricter approach than nearby councils by issuing the full £1,000 fine with no early payment option, even for small, one-time mistakes. This falls short of government expectations and raises questions about fairness and whether enforcement is mainly about collecting money.Cllr Peter Thompson

Peter Thompson ● 9d

How do you get people to take enough notice of the problem and of the personal responsibility they have to take?  No two people seem to use or take any notice of the same news/information method?  Many can't be bothered to read words.  Most definitely more news and information should be shown on Environment Agency action (or lack of it) on the criminals who are fly-tipping (also known as rubbish dumping).  I still don't think many people understand what the word fly-tipping means - especially when it just means adding to someone else's pile of waste. The large scale dumping is also being driven away by illegal and unlicensed collectors and is wrecking the countryside and waterways causing pollution and costing farmers and others thousands of pounds in dealing with removal/disposal and time/energy.Recycling amounts used to be just calculated by weight.  Is it still?  A lot of work has been done on reducing the weight of containers such as those made of glass and metal and boxes are now easier to flatten.  The measurement of it is problematical.  Design changes to reduce it and make it easier to recycle should be given more credit than it is.  So much is no longer made of mixed materials. Have you looked at your empty toothpaste packaging recently?  And is it really really empty?  Or is there a week's worth or more of tooth paste still in it?

Philippa Bond ● 9d

"but we should fine people to the hilt as long as they are doing so because that's how we create the neighbourhoods that people want to live in and want to see."If they're fly tipping then yes, do - but neither of the two people mentioned in the front page article are by any stretch of the imagination flytippers.What a detestable bunch of 'public' servants.

Andrew Jones ● 9d

The Leader said one has to send a message that fly tipping is a serious problem.  Just like speeding is a serious problem.So if it is so serious, how about getting people to go on the equivalent of a speed awareness course?  Get them to pay £100 for a course on what you can put down a drain (or not) or what to do with envelopes. I think that most of the population have some serious gaps in their knowledge - and if Councils really want to see an improvement in people's habits -then maybe that is the way to go. Cruel punitive fines sends entirely the wrong message - and makes tackling flytipping and littering look mean minded and draconian.

Jackie Elton ● 9d

Sky news have been really good on the failure to tackle serious waste crimehttps://youtu.be/BMyaWHv4ww0?si=PoZ4cvMkIRScraHo

David Turner ● 9d

Meanwhile real criminals appear to act with impunity eghttps://news.sky.com/story/urgent-action-needed-to-stop-fly-tipping-by-gangs-peers-say-13459009As for the EU directive surely we no longer need to follow it?

David Turner ● 9d

Recycling rates in London have flatlined and decreased in places like Ealing. Making it more complicated is a deterrent to many. Imposing swingeing fines for an honest mistake won’t help.

Simon Hayes ● 9d

https://www.ealing.gov.uk/info/201171/recycling_servicesThis is the household waste recycling collection.  Remember that everything needs to be sorted one way or another and it is far too expensive to send everything to be sent to be burnt for EfW.More different licensed collectors are now looking to win the recycling collections from businesses.

Philippa Bond ● 9d

All down to the EU directive - Directive 2008/98/EC. Rubbish must be separated for collection. What happens next is interesting - Ealing for example dump it all in one giant bin. At least so the guys who drive the dumpsters say.

Davy Jones ● 9d

Ah you're right Jeremy, so it is but we should all be aware that the rules have changed following a change in the law.Unfortunately many landlords do not inform their tenants properly and do not provide the bins that they should be.https://www.gov.uk/guidance/simpler-recycling-workplace-recycling-in-england#workplaces-that-must-follow-these-rulesHowever everybody needs to take responsibility for what they are doing and how and where they are disposing of their waste - and not just add it to someone else's because it is sod's law that it will be the innocent and careless mistaken person who gets fined.

Philippa Bond ● 9d

Talk about a racket.

Keith Iddon ● 9d

Is the new Simpler Recycling legislation clear enough?

Philippa Bond ● 9d

That's a different case Philippa. Still pretty outrageous though.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 9d

>Meanwhile actually flytippers (who are never going to leave an envelope with their name and address in the stuff they dump) will continue to go unpunished.Was it just an envelope on top of already flytipped material, or do/did the council think the whole lot was one big flytip with incrimiating evidence?

Paul James ● 9d

https://www.brentfordtw8.com/default.asp?section=info&page=conlitterfine2511.htmAccording to this it wasn't quite as the OP has stated.What everyone needs to understand (if they don't already) is that there is a nightmare of a difference in the UK between business waste and household waste.Council Tax is for homes and generally covers both household waste and household recycling for which the Council provides a licensed waste and recycling collection.  (Some buildings  may be deemed unsuitable for bins/bags.)Business Tax is something that businesses have to pay and does NOT cover waste and recycling and the business needs to have a contract or contracts with a licensed waste contractor. So when it isn't simple it IS more problematic!This is also why so many businesses will give their customers a cardboard box to take their purchases home in or will deliver in them (and why not if that box is being reused and then gets recycled).  To avoid hassle and for security just don't leave your name and address or anyone else's on anything that you put in the waste and recycling -- for security reasons if nothing else."Simpler Recycling" was due to be put in place on 31 March 2025.  Whether it is actually simpler or not is something else.  You will find that as a business everyone will want to sell you bins and contracts.  For businesses who have little or no waste this will be something they ought to be able to share - and in some places in the past could share.  I'm not sure that businesses/landlords are doing this - are they?  What does the Council say about businesses that have little or no waste and want to separate their recycling out from any other waste and are they allowed to share a collection?  

Philippa Bond ● 9d

This may well be a forerunner of what might happen when Hounslow bring in their new 'enforcement' regime. Incidents like this should be treated sensibly, yes, the woman was a bit daft, Who among us puts anything out with a name and address on it in this day and age? Why not dispose of an envelope indoors? But, leaving that aside, what pillock decided to go way, way over the top? Why not explain patiently that none of us should be doing this, give her a warning of possible consequences and leave it at that? This is classical bullying, and frankly having seen the Dear Leader's explanation on the BBC last night - he came across as a jumped up little bureaucrat only interested in the money. Pathetic.

Vanessa Smith ● 9d

Makes the £100 fine for tipping some coffee down a road drain a real bargain.£1000 for putting an envelope on top of a pile of cardboard next to a recycling bin? Absolutely out of proportion to the offence.

Andrew Jones ● 9d

There is a more detailed report currently on the front page. As far as I am aware, Hounslow is not the only council that have taken the opportunity to exercise new powers to dramatically increase flytipping fines. For people on low incomes these fines are potentially life changing and they appear to be given out for de minimis offences rather than actual flytipping. People with a reasonable grasp of the law or who take advice will probably reckon it is worth challenge them and get off but more vulnerable people might feel initimidated into paying. It is a terrible way to manage enforcement. Meanwhile actually flytippers (who are never going to leave an envelope with their name and address in the stuff they dump) will continue to go unpunished.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 10d

This was covered at length on the BBC TV London News yesterday evening. I'm all for cracking down on fly-tippers, but as usual LB Hounslow shows an inability to deal with issues proportionally.

Richard Greenhough ● 10d

Officers regulary pick through piles of flytipped stuff to find evidence of who put it there.Putting something with your address in on or near such a pile is not a good idea (if this is what happened).And also, take you address off anything and shred it before recycling/sending it to landfill...

Paul James ● 10d