Forum Topic

£1,000 envelope in Hounslow

Is anyone else really angry about the story on the radio news this morning that the London Borough of Hounslow has fined a lady from Feltham £1,000 for 'fly tipping' a cardboard envelope (with her name and address left on) outside her flat, on top of a pile of boxes, as there was no room for it in the overflowing bin? It is said they are doing this as an example and to crack down on fly tipping and they will not back down, even though the lady concerned can ill afford it, suffering as a result, and insisting the entire fine is paid in one go, as they do not offer payment plans. They have, however, given her a further 30 days to pay it (their generosity of spirit knows no bounds). It seems that they want to line their coffers from innocent individuals, while big companies get away with so much more. Absolutely dreadful and scary to say the least!I would be interested to know how many users or companies have been fined for ebikes abandoned on pavements, sometimes in great numbers at a time, which block them and create further hazards for those of us who use them. None, I'm sure.I do hope there will be further (peaceful) protest about this and the lady concerned is exonerated, rather than martyred. Meantime, always remove personal details from everything and shred them!

Richard Evans ● 31d75 Comments

as a charitable donation sent in someone's name which can create a good amount of discussion about all the superfluous excess we have here  or find other things locally to ground the overconsumption and waste that many see around at Christmas.

Philippa Bond ● 16d

It's easier to give money,, or it used to be, the younger ones prefer to buy what they want.

Janice Evans ● 16d

The Environment Agency has to be called in but the Environment Agency was heavily reduced in staffing numbers years ago and has also had to try and monitor rivers etc where regulation was reduced...  So don't know how it is managing now except that rivers seem to be improving with a lot of input from all the residents who live near them and use them and do a lot of monitoring themselves as well as some from Parliament.  It has to be a joined-up operation.

Philippa Bond ● 17d

It used to be sheets of it but the amount has reduced.  You can choose what you buy and choose and use sustainable packaging.  You can also question and complain to companies that you don't think are packaging their goods sustainably. As for Christmas - there was a well known slogan:  Don't Buy Cr@p for Christmas!  That still applies but sadly you can't legislate for that and insisting on buying a rubbish gift just for the sake of giving someone something can be a harder habit to break for some more than others but is worth it.Quite a few years ago now we were discussing giving vouchers or experiences as an alternative.  Just giving the important people in your life TIME & ATTENTION instead of inflicting stuff on them they don't want that they have then to deal with can be far more valuable. Try to go out together and share an experience that you can talk about.

Philippa Bond ● 17d

‘Ministers have signalled an imminent crackdown on so-called “for-profit” litter enforcement arrangements in England, where private firms are paid for each fixed penalty notice issued.’

Peter Evans ● 17d

Responsible people are purchasing extra bins for storage of things like thatand break them down gradually.

Janice Evans ● 17d

“ It just needs binning in a black bin. Polystyrene is too difficult to recycle.  It doesn't have to all be thrown in the bin at the same time and there is nothing to stop someone requesting and agreeing to share some space in a neighbour's bin when and if occasionally overwhelmed.”Yep - and people aren’t doing that, obviously!!!  That’s why it’s being flytipped. As already explained - it’s too bulky to fit in black bags to go in wheelie bins which are already filled to capacity and people aren’t prepared to hold on to it for weeks / months on end to drip feed the wheelie bin. People (obviously) also couldn’t be bothered to beg their neighbours for space in their wheelie bins. Much easier to flytip on the pavement!  Let’s see the polystyrene aftermath from Xmas packaging.

Steve Taylor ● 17d

As for the Kidlington mega-dump, it’s now emerging that neighbouring landowners saw this dumping start back in June. Then what?!

Peter Evans ● 17d

It ISN'T RECYCLING!  It just needs binning in a black bin. Polystyrene is too difficult to recycle.  It doesn't have to all be thrown in the bin at the same time and there is nothing to stop someone requesting and agreeing to share some space in a neighbour's bin when and if occasionally overwhelmed.Steve, polystyrene everywhere is what you are seeing - it is definitely not what I am seeing.  Perhaps you have a commercial business nearby or wherever it is you go who has a lot and who is dumping polystyrene rather than paying for a commercial collection?Commercial recycling isn't mandatory for very small offices - see the Govt info:  https://www.gov.uk/guidance/simpler-recycling-workplace-recycling-in-englandI agree with Janice it is probably building waste that (and garden waste and landlords' house clearances) that HWRCs are trying to regulate more.  They certainly need to with the amount that got dumped in the field in Kidlington and which is dumped in beauty spots and on farmland and which farmers are then expected to clear at their own expense or when it is dumped on Council land our Council Tax (ie Council Tax payers' money) has to be used to pay for clearing it up.  Criminal gangs are definitely responsible for a lot of it.https://www.gov.uk/guidance/waste-environmental-permitsThe West London Waste Authority (our Waste Authority) used to have someone who could come and talk to groups about how to deal with their residual waste and recycling.https://westlondonwaste.gov.uk/What never seems to be mentioned enough nowadays is that there is a Waste Hierarchy.  In its very simplest terms it is Reduce Reuse Recycle after which is preparing for Energy from Waste and disposal. There are several other options that can now be inserted before Recycling eg Repair and Repurpose.

Philippa Bond ● 17d

The point is, there is still loads of polystyrene being flytipped on pavements because people can’t recycle it.

Steve Taylor ● 17d

There is definitely a lot less polystyrene being used in packaging and most households don't buy masses of those items at the same time or often so it wouldn't be a huge and continuous problem for each household. Now that so much can be put in the kerbside recycling bin many households don't fill their residual waste bin (ie what can't be recycled kerbside) for each collection.  Revisiting what can be recycled kerbside and finding out what can be recycled elsewhere ie large supermarket or pharmacy further reduces the waste left and going for Energy from Waste.The food waste bin has made a huge difference as using it shows people how much they are wasting and how much money they can also save by reassessing buying, storing and cooking habits.  Mine was buying too much bread.

Philippa Bond ● 17d

Think they are more concerned with building materials than work correspondence.

Janice Evans ● 18d

My recollection is that vans weren't allowed into Stirling Road and that business use was never a particular problem with business use as a result.There is often a blurred line between business and personal use - for instance if I WFH and bring work correspondence with me and then recycle with household waste, am I fly tipping?The problem that is emerging here is a mixed message from the authorities. We have been told for decades that recycling is good and most have tried to maximise what they do. However, now that many councils have started burning household waste to create what is laughably called green energy, they have lost the incentive that massive land fill costs provided to encourage recycling. People assume they are being good citizens by putting cardboard in appropriate containers but the council has moved on from that approach.

Mark Evans ● 18d

I certainly understood that at Stirling Road there was a problem with business users when it was just for household waste. That would be another reason for it only being open to cars and not larger vehicles and for taking registration numbers.Household waste is included in Council Tax payments but Business/Commercial waste is NOT included in Business Rates and Business/Commercial users are supposed to pay and to generally have a contract with a Licenced Registered Commercial Waste Collector.  Business/Commercial waste producers should see the new regulations for recycling which are on the www.gov.uk website.

Philippa Bond ● 19d

Yes we too would often walk stuff into Stirling Road when there were huge queues - I think it was stopped there presumably for safety reasons - and I also hated reversing into the spaces under pressure - partly for the same reason!  It was our local HWRC.  Kerbside collections have hugely increased since then - and packaging has greatly reduced. I still remember years ago someone in a sports car arriving with a large undismantled cardboard box with the polystyrene still inside esconced on the back seat looking completely out of place and as if delivering some sort of huge religious offering.  It does help to separate and flatten materials before disposal and we often STILL don't see this happening! Packaging has changed a lot and companies creating and using it by law now have to be much more responsible for it.We've certainly had Packaging Producer Regulations for around 30 years - and this will have and will be pushing a change to reduce packaging and improve recyclability.  You will find very few mixed materials now used in one piece of packaging and the innovation in achieving this is really creative and should be applauded much much more.We are now looking forward to Extended Producer Packaging Responsibility Regulations: The following is dated 19.11.25.https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-10352/

Philippa Bond ● 19d

Is that because they want the registration numbers.

Janice Evans ● 19d

Thank you I did not know that. I thought they wanted less car journeys.

Nicholas Beard ● 20d

Yes they stopped people walking into the Kew site.

Steve Taylor ● 20d

I don't live in this area anymore however you observation about people without cars triggered a memory. I had two black backs of garden waste so I went to the recycling centre by car. There was a large queue to get in so I parked a couple of streets away and walked. I carefully emptied the sacks into the garden waste, then placed the  black plastic sacks in the correct container. I then saw a man walking towards me and wondered what I had done wrong. He thanked me for putting the black bags separate to the garden waste, then informed me he had seen me walk in and they will soon be putting up signs saying pedestrians will not be allowed. I said OK, but thought I might not have had a car and come by bus. It all seems so difficult.

Nicholas Beard ● 20d

“ instructions for expanded polystyrene have always been to put it in your BLACK BIN and NOT your recycling bin!”And that’s the point I made already. The huge amounts of polystyrene used to protect white goods and TVs are much to much to place in black bags and fit into wheelie bins so residents have no service from councils to have it collected for free. Those without cars to take to the dump or those who don’t want to book slots, simply fly tip it and then the council is forced to pick it up when it’s reported as fly tipped. It’s a big problem which councils need to address.

Steve Taylor ● 20d

I've been following up flytipping for years. When I was on Cabinet I did something specific about Steve Taylor's repeated problem after apologising him and I never heard of it again so I presume it was resolved.Prosecuting fly tippers is extremely difficult. The rogues habitually use cloned registration plates so even if they can be identified they often don't help. Plus they usually dump in secluded places (I have seen 2 major commercial dumps on Dukes Meadows in the last couple of months alone)Even if we catch a rogue tipper, there are long delays in the courts and prosecuting is a very expensive exercise and fines are insufficient to really deter. A couple of years ago we targeted a regular tipping place. It involved multiple CCTVs,and a large amount of officers and lawyers' time creating a case. At the end of well over a year, there was a fine of ~£4KMost of the flytipping is not like that anyway. It is householders who can't be bothered (or landlords who have provided no facilities or instructions) or businesses trying to reduce costs for their waste contracts by reducing volumes. Street bins are very popular with traders, or just dumping - say - next or in the 'grit bins' provided for people who live in flats above shops.The council has recently employed APCOA to spray around fines of £1000 to anyone who has left an address on something that ends up on the street or in a council bin, usually in my experience due to the bin overflowing and the item (usually paper or cardboard) blowing out, being placed next to an overfilled bin or potentially deliberately removed by a contractor to create a revenue stream. As far as I'm concerned this is not fly tipping at all and I have written to all the Cabinet members urging them to desist from this. If the matters I am aware of end up in court, I'm pretty sure they will be thrown out.I have asked if the current contractors retain the booty they create as the previous contractors did, but nobody has replied.I am working today on a report from a resident in my ward. This has been reported both to the local police and to the council's enforcement team. As this involves 5 or more mattresses I believe it is either a landlord or a professional dumper. The resident has identified the culprit and his (displayed) registration number and has previously confronted him with his behaviour and told to naff off.No response from police yet but a council officer responded today (Sunday - the day I alerted him) "a member of the Team will liaise with CCTV colleagues to ascertain if there are any cameras covering this location and if there is any footage captured of the incident that will enable the pursuance of enforcement action.If the fly-tipping incident was personally witnessed by a Resident and they are willing to provide a witness statement and if necessary to appear in Court to validate; then this is evidence that may be utilised to pursue enforcement action where we do not have any CCTV footage. I note the report regarding the vehicle being untaxed from 18/11/25 – this is not something that the Enforcement Team have any jurisdiction over – however I attach below a link for reporting this directly to DVLA if the vehicle remains untaxed going forward – with information regarding the usual location where parked being required:"

Guy Lambert ● 20d

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/simpler-recycling-workplace Yes - this is the new "simpler" recycling system for businesses that has now arrived (31 March 2025).  The version for household waste has yet to arrive.You need to make sure as always that the waste collecting company you use is a registered licenced waste collector or you could be fined.The enormous Kidlington  Oxfordshire flytip that has been in the news recently shows exactly why!

Philippa Bond ● 20d

RubbishIt has two ways of reporting flytipping - one with, one without a request to enforce.Hounslow Highways rarely enforces because enforcing is referred to the council itself"If you witness fly-tipping, or fly-tipped rubbish, you can report it to the London Borough of Hounslow by clicking here: Fly tipping online form "If you witness fly-tipping, or fly-tipped rubbish, you can report it to the London Borough of Hounslow by clicking here: Fly tipping online form So what you say is the direct opposite of the truth

Guy Lambert ● 20d

I think we should be asking our children to show the adults how to flatten boxes, plastic milk bottles and tetrapak cartons because if WE all learnt how to do that we'd have alot more room in our recycling and residual waste bins.I can't believe anyone would pack their suitcases with fully inflated lilos - so why pack your bins with so much air?

Philippa Bond ● 20d

The instructions for expanded polystyrene have always been to put it in your BLACK BIN and NOT your recycling bin!

Philippa Bond ● 20d

I had a look at Hounslow Council's website and on the face of it (but just on the face of it) they do want people to report fly tipping and provide evidence, seehttps://forms2.hounslow.gov.uk/info/20114/street_problems/1228/report_dumped_rubbishHowever when you click on the "Report Dumped Rubbish on Public Land button", you get re-directed to the main page of Hounslow Highways website.You might eventually navigate to https://hounslowhighways.org/street-cleansing/fly-tipping/and find the following option to select "If you witness fly-tipping, or fly-tipped rubbish, you can report it to the London Borough of Hounslow by clicking here:" That looks hopeful, however if you click on that, you get back to the original Hounslow Council page you started on! So you just end up going in circles. Perhaps there is a councillor who can take this up on behalf of Hounslow residents. Both Hounslow Council and Hounslow Highways say they take it (flytipping) seriously, and say you can report it, but there is no advertised way of doing so. Dumping on private land ... there's a form that's easy to locate which you can fill in!

Andrew Jones ● 21d

The Fix My Street online reporting specifically instructs you NOT to report or accuse anyone of Flytipping even when you know exactly who it is, where they live, or have photos of them and their vehicle with registration number etc. This seems to indicate that Councils don’t want to be bothered with prosecuting serial flytippers or one off flytippers!

Steve Taylor ● 21d

All of Hounslow's recycling is sold to professional recycling contractors usually within the UK (except cardboard which is often sold overseas because the UK lacks capacity for recycling cardboard).The residual waste (ie what's in a wheelie bin or street bins or flytipping) from the 6 local authorities that are in West London Waste is taken by train from Brentford or I think Hayes to a large incinerator near Bristol, where it is burnt as fuel. I was told it served 30,000 homes and produced less pollution than 4 Range Rovers.

Guy Lambert ● 21d

Peter I remember on the dump near to Eltorne park in Hanwell in the fifties a constant stream of lorries carrying ashes from incinerated rubbish. I don't know where the incinerating took place but it must have been a big operation.

Nicholas Beard ● 21d

Meanwhile 'genuine' fly tipping is happening all over the place, but obviously isn't so easy to extort money from as someone pouring coffee dregs down the drain or letting an envelope blow out of their recycling bin. In my younger days, everything went on the fire, from screwed up newspapers to food left-overs, maybe even including polystyrene packaging.  What a great cosy blaze it all made, which reduced to a few shovels of ashes!  We could do away with all this sifting and sorting if everything went straight into modern incinerators and produced some useful energy.

Peter Evans ● 21d

As Hounslow's only Green councillor (only became that a couple of weeks ago having resigned from the Labour group early this year) I can assure you my personal view of this regime is extremely negative.I am currently dealing with 5 people who have been fined £1000 for flytipping and in no case have any of them flytipped. 4 of them used an overflowing bin (the one they were supposed to use for recycling). The other one is the owner of a micro business whose business is teaching people to knit. Her private landlord does not provide a recycling bin at her office so she took some cardboard in which she had received some wool and dropped it in a council estate cardboard recycling bin on her walk home.  I heard this morning of another person who is accused of living in a place where she is not known and has been fined a bargain £500 for (I think) using the same bin as the other 4. Since she has been served with notice at a place where she is not known by the owners the council and its agent for this genius service (APCOA, better knwon for car parks) are unlikely to get a payment. I have asked whether these fines benefit the council or are pocketed by the agent as was the arrangement with the previous provider. Under the same contract that covers Ealing and Harrow as well as Hounslow, they have got in the press for fining a 5 year-old £1000 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rjmp3z2nvoI have not discussed this with senior Green colleagues (I haven't met them yet!) but I would be very surprised if they support this extortion.I do bang on about this in my weekly Blog including last week's exciting episode.https://www.guylambert.blog/post/blog-504-13th-november-2025

Guy Lambert ● 21d

But at the moment hundreds of items are packed in polystyrene and people are flytipping it because councils don’t offer any free solution to get rid of it. People are simply not prepared to pay anything over and above their Council Tax to dispose of waste materials. Wait until after Xmas to see the loads of polystyrene dumped on streets. The councils offer no solutions.

Steve Taylor ● 21d

Expanded polystyrene is used a lot less now.  There are alternatives like eggbox mashed paper being increasingly used and reused cardboard that has been lattice cut which stretches around articles being packed.  Some of the packaging that looks like those polystyrene packaging pieces/peanuts (like a small bag of a potato snack) are actually made of starch and disappear when wet.  Air filled recyclable plastic bags are also being used a lot.If you get big electrical items delivered by the company you buy from you can get all the packaging taken away as well as the old appliance free or for a small fee which is well worth the hassle of organising a licensed collector to collect and take away or trying to do it yourself.I'd rather not get it but polystyrene chunks can be used to reduce the amount of potting compost needed in large planting containers.  I remember it being used for sculpture years ago and being cut with a hot wire.  I'm not sure that happens now  as we worry more about toxic fumes and all those little bits getting everywhere.  I seem to remember it being collected together and compressed.  Those big companies that sell items packaged like this could/should and perhaps already do that?

Philippa Bond ● 22d

You cannot burn it either, think it's toxic.

Janice Evans ● 23d

I’ve noticed that polystyrene is constantly flytipped. White goods, TVs etc are still being packed in polystyrene for protection. Many people break it up a bit and put it in recycling boxes but the Council won’t take it so the recycling people just jump it on the pavement. Hence many people just flytip it directly. Breaking it up to put it in black bags in wheelie bins doesn’t really work either because it takes up far too much space. The council needs to address this.

Steve Taylor ● 23d

I’ve noticed that polystyrene is constantly flytipped. White goods, TVs etc are still being packed in polystyrene for protection. Many people break it up a bit and put it in recycling boxes but the Council won’t take it so the recycling people just jump it on the pavement. Hence many people just flytip it directly. Breaking it up to put it in black bags in wheelie bins doesn’t really work either because it takes up far too much space. The council needs to address this.

Steve Taylor ● 23d

An overview of UK recycling:https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/shopping-sustainably/article/how-to-recycle-in-the-uk-ajwEz4p63Qs6

Philippa Bond ● 23d

But we know that's not true.  It's only difficult if you've never done it before and it gets easier with practice.  Regulations for Business/Commercial waste changed recently and those for Household Waste will be changing in the future.  It's on the Govt website.There is no magic "away" in "throw it away".  It's costing us all and the environment a fortune when it is not dealt with correctly.  Just look at that recently reported enormous illegal flytip in Kidlington, Oxfordshire.  We all have to be responsible for what we buy and what we do with what we no longer want.

Philippa Bond ● 23d

We all recycle - I do too. But let's admit it's a total waste of time and effort, a nice feel-good activity for bored busy bodies who like to show their virtues off. That's the 'terrible shame'

Davy Jones ● 25d

I would imagine a huge fine and TV and radio coverage is a lot more successful is getting the message across that there are actually some rules and regulations for disposing of your waste - I only wish it wasn't necessary. Perhaps we should be thanking those who have been fined for creating that necessary publicity?  It is a terrible shame that with all the teaching that should be happening in schools (recycling and reuse of materials/resources occurs three times IIRC in the National Curriculum), parents should be setting an example to their children (if it isn't the other way around), landlords and their Agents should be informing and managing their tenants, Councils should be more proactive in putting information out in good formats AND Governments should be far more active in making sure that there are enough Environment Agency staff to deal with the regulation of waste licences and facilities - and follow up on all the tip offs that residents and newspapers give them.

Philippa Bond ● 25d

“ Hounslow (and other local authorities) seems to have created an enforcement system designed to ensnare the innocent and give a free pass to the guilty.”I think it’s more a case of having a system designed to ensnare those without a brain and give a free pass and a heads up to those with innovative or cunning ways to buck the system. Fly tipping is encouraged purely because the Council prohibits one from reporting serial offenders.  I too would be interested to know how the Greens would deal with this huge problem!  Their Leader was ridiculously pathetic on Newsnight yesterday, unable to answer direct questions on immigration or finances and the Reform representative able to run rings around him.

Steve Taylor ● 26d

What these cases seem to have in common is that the people fined left the evidence that was used to against them, completely unaware that leaving it there could be possible construed as flytipping. Anyone who was actually knowingly dumping a significant amount of waste illegally would take care to remove anything that could be used to identify them. Hounslow (and other local authorities) seems to have created an enforcement system designed to ensnare the innocent and give a free pass to the guilty.

Mark Evans ● 26d

Unfortunately many people in this country don't take pride in their work and consequently fail to gain the sense of achievement that follows!  Is their brief to do it well or just finish it fast as possible?  Perhaps that is because good work isn't valued enough?  With the constant fragmentation of working systems with so many workers not being overseen or managed as a cost saving effort with robotically made appointments where inadequate information exchange is possible an incredible amount of time is wasted and frustration accrued.

Philippa Bond ● 28d

I would be interested to know the policy of the Green Party on exemplary fines for flytipping. I hope that it is kinder on people who have merely made a mistake, or been unable to dispose of their waste through the approved means (due to overflowing bins etc). As the Green Party in London is now more popular than the Labour Party, and likely to be one of its main competitors in the May '26 elections, we should know how they will deal with flytipping and related issues.

Peter Burgess ● 28d

I tried phoning Hounslow council on Monday re a parking permit. No one could be bothered to pick up a phone. I now assume the staff were out in Hounslow trying to find someone to fine a thousand pounds for placing an envelope in a recycling bin.

Chris Dakers ● 28d

“ yes, every time it’s a waste collection day there is a trail of litter on the street as a result.  Including envelopes. We just have to clear up after them.”And that is a diabolical situation that waste collection days mean more plastics and paper being strewn across streets and pavements purely because of a lackadaisical approach to work by the recycling people and a lack of discipline by managers. It doesn’t happen in any other European countries I have visited or parts of the USA and Australia, NZ and South Africa where the recycling teams take pride in their work. Interestingly I noticed in Cape Town, where recycling is put in huge transparent bags, the poor and homeless empty all the items on the pavement and rummage through it to take what they need and then they carefully repack the bags and leave the pavements spotless!  It’s a sight to behold. One is encouraged to reward these poor people for this consideration of the environment and the beauty of areas they could never afford.

Steve Taylor ● 28d

We need to see our waste as a resource and not just as something WE don't want.Nowadays we are bombarded by so much different information on different media as everyone collects our data and clamours for our attention with increasing hysteria that means important info can be missed.  We used to see eye-catching picture posters with short informative messages on noticeboards outside public buildings.  I particularly remember good Hounslow posters reminding residents not to put their black waste sacks out too early.  I saw these on my twice weekly visits to the Fountains Leisure Centre.What happens to all the work eg those sort of posters (obviously not exactly that one but in that sort of public place) but that sort of info which needs to be repeated to some extent with each new generation and a transient population?The whole family reads these informative posters. They aren't just lost in amongst thousands of other emails behind a password!

Philippa Bond ● 29d

Indeed, Philippa. Everyone should take responsibility.Hounslow should also take responsibility, but it never does.Thanks for defending Hounslow for this indefensible situation.

David Lesniak ● 29d

As Cllr Thompson has said the whole policy and approach needs reviewing. If somebody is caught speeding for going 5 miles over the speed limit versus 3 times over the speed limit , the penalty must be different.  It’s simple justice and common sense.  The current regime is oppressive and incompetent. It also creates a lot of work for Councillors who have to fight the cases. Not fair on them either. And yes, every time it’s a waste collection day there is a trail of litter on the street as a result.  Including envelopes. We just have to clear up after them. While we clear up the leaves.

Jackie Elton ● 29d

Not at all shocking as each and every one of us should be taking responsibility for our actions instead of expecting to offload all responsibility elsewhere.  Who dumped the unflattened cardboard?  Why when changes in packaging design has made it so much easier?  You can get more in a bin if you do - more space for everyone to put their cardboard in, fewer UNNECESSARY collections, less traffic, congestion, danger and pollution. Can't be bothered - or need help?  We ALL need to be bothered and sometimes help is needed and only has to be asked for.  It is a shared world!

Philippa Bond ● 29d

Shocking no one has mentioned the overflowing bin in the first place. Seems Hounslow's underperformance or lack thereof is part of the problem. Why are they not being held to account for failure to collect? Surely that is the root cause. Otherwise everything would be contained properly. Clearly it wasn't. And rarely ever is. Just watch the trash in LBH bags collect by the LBH bins on the High Road. People are supposed to leave trash in their homes because LBH can't sort out collection???Issuing a fine of this magnitude is absurd. Intent is clear. This woman tried her best. She did not fail. The system failed her. Pointless punishment for a well-meaning individual.

David Lesniak ● 30d

Problem is after bins have been emptied there is often some litter left scattered around,  so our litter could be left lying around (not by us).

Janice Evans ● 30d

Organised crime gangs do the largest scale stuff and it’s not just a London issue, as the attached link shows. But there are ways of tackling it that don’t involve victimising residents who make an innocent mistake.But it takes time and money to combat the gangs and it’s easier to pick on the little guys, of course.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y4dxlgkp4o

Simon Hayes ● 30d

Suppose ther is no way of charging those actually fly tipping.

Janice Evans ● 30d

It’s not helped by some local authorities charging ridiculous amounts for disposal of certain items at the waste and recycling centres. That just encourages people to find other ways of getting rid of things they don’t want.The persistent belief held by certain left leaning types is that people will always do the right thing even though all the evidence is that the opposite is true.The levels of fines for these ‘offences’ that are simply honest mistakes is utterly disproportionate, particularly when councils often fail to find and punish the large scale fly-tippers who are the real culprits.It’s quite obvious that this isn’t a deterrent but a revenue raising exercise. We don’t live in a police state but councils increasingly act as if we do.

Simon Hayes ● 30d

Many local councils set different penalty levels and offer early payment discounts to distinguish between real fly-tipping and simple household mistakes.Neighbouring Hammersmith & Fulham provides a clear and balanced model:• £1,000 FPN (reduced to £500 if paid within 10 days) – reserved for true fly-tipping, such as mattresses, white goods, bulky items or construction waste.• £250 FPN (reduced to £200) – used where normal domestic waste is put out incorrectly (e.g., a single bag or small household item left out at the wrong time).This approach ensures enforcement targets actual fly-tippers and does not unfairly pressure residents.Hounslow has taken a stricter approach than nearby councils by issuing the full £1,000 fine with no early payment option, even for small, one-time mistakes. This falls short of government expectations and raises questions about fairness and whether enforcement is mainly about collecting money.Cllr Peter Thompson

Peter Thompson ● 30d

How do you get people to take enough notice of the problem and of the personal responsibility they have to take?  No two people seem to use or take any notice of the same news/information method?  Many can't be bothered to read words.  Most definitely more news and information should be shown on Environment Agency action (or lack of it) on the criminals who are fly-tipping (also known as rubbish dumping).  I still don't think many people understand what the word fly-tipping means - especially when it just means adding to someone else's pile of waste. The large scale dumping is also being driven away by illegal and unlicensed collectors and is wrecking the countryside and waterways causing pollution and costing farmers and others thousands of pounds in dealing with removal/disposal and time/energy.Recycling amounts used to be just calculated by weight.  Is it still?  A lot of work has been done on reducing the weight of containers such as those made of glass and metal and boxes are now easier to flatten.  The measurement of it is problematical.  Design changes to reduce it and make it easier to recycle should be given more credit than it is.  So much is no longer made of mixed materials. Have you looked at your empty toothpaste packaging recently?  And is it really really empty?  Or is there a week's worth or more of tooth paste still in it?

Philippa Bond ● 30d

"but we should fine people to the hilt as long as they are doing so because that's how we create the neighbourhoods that people want to live in and want to see."If they're fly tipping then yes, do - but neither of the two people mentioned in the front page article are by any stretch of the imagination flytippers.What a detestable bunch of 'public' servants.

Andrew Jones ● 30d

The Leader said one has to send a message that fly tipping is a serious problem.  Just like speeding is a serious problem.So if it is so serious, how about getting people to go on the equivalent of a speed awareness course?  Get them to pay £100 for a course on what you can put down a drain (or not) or what to do with envelopes. I think that most of the population have some serious gaps in their knowledge - and if Councils really want to see an improvement in people's habits -then maybe that is the way to go. Cruel punitive fines sends entirely the wrong message - and makes tackling flytipping and littering look mean minded and draconian.

Jackie Elton ● 30d

Sky news have been really good on the failure to tackle serious waste crimehttps://youtu.be/BMyaWHv4ww0?si=PoZ4cvMkIRScraHo

David Turner ● 30d

Meanwhile real criminals appear to act with impunity eghttps://news.sky.com/story/urgent-action-needed-to-stop-fly-tipping-by-gangs-peers-say-13459009As for the EU directive surely we no longer need to follow it?

David Turner ● 30d

Recycling rates in London have flatlined and decreased in places like Ealing. Making it more complicated is a deterrent to many. Imposing swingeing fines for an honest mistake won’t help.

Simon Hayes ● 30d

https://www.ealing.gov.uk/info/201171/recycling_servicesThis is the household waste recycling collection.  Remember that everything needs to be sorted one way or another and it is far too expensive to send everything to be sent to be burnt for EfW.More different licensed collectors are now looking to win the recycling collections from businesses.

Philippa Bond ● 30d

All down to the EU directive - Directive 2008/98/EC. Rubbish must be separated for collection. What happens next is interesting - Ealing for example dump it all in one giant bin. At least so the guys who drive the dumpsters say.

Davy Jones ● 30d

Ah you're right Jeremy, so it is but we should all be aware that the rules have changed following a change in the law.Unfortunately many landlords do not inform their tenants properly and do not provide the bins that they should be.https://www.gov.uk/guidance/simpler-recycling-workplace-recycling-in-england#workplaces-that-must-follow-these-rulesHowever everybody needs to take responsibility for what they are doing and how and where they are disposing of their waste - and not just add it to someone else's because it is sod's law that it will be the innocent and careless mistaken person who gets fined.

Philippa Bond ● 30d

Talk about a racket.

Keith Iddon ● 30d

Is the new Simpler Recycling legislation clear enough?

Philippa Bond ● 30d

That's a different case Philippa. Still pretty outrageous though.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 30d

>Meanwhile actually flytippers (who are never going to leave an envelope with their name and address in the stuff they dump) will continue to go unpunished.Was it just an envelope on top of already flytipped material, or do/did the council think the whole lot was one big flytip with incrimiating evidence?

Paul James ● 30d

https://www.brentfordtw8.com/default.asp?section=info&page=conlitterfine2511.htmAccording to this it wasn't quite as the OP has stated.What everyone needs to understand (if they don't already) is that there is a nightmare of a difference in the UK between business waste and household waste.Council Tax is for homes and generally covers both household waste and household recycling for which the Council provides a licensed waste and recycling collection.  (Some buildings  may be deemed unsuitable for bins/bags.)Business Tax is something that businesses have to pay and does NOT cover waste and recycling and the business needs to have a contract or contracts with a licensed waste contractor. So when it isn't simple it IS more problematic!This is also why so many businesses will give their customers a cardboard box to take their purchases home in or will deliver in them (and why not if that box is being reused and then gets recycled).  To avoid hassle and for security just don't leave your name and address or anyone else's on anything that you put in the waste and recycling -- for security reasons if nothing else."Simpler Recycling" was due to be put in place on 31 March 2025.  Whether it is actually simpler or not is something else.  You will find that as a business everyone will want to sell you bins and contracts.  For businesses who have little or no waste this will be something they ought to be able to share - and in some places in the past could share.  I'm not sure that businesses/landlords are doing this - are they?  What does the Council say about businesses that have little or no waste and want to separate their recycling out from any other waste and are they allowed to share a collection?  

Philippa Bond ● 30d

This may well be a forerunner of what might happen when Hounslow bring in their new 'enforcement' regime. Incidents like this should be treated sensibly, yes, the woman was a bit daft, Who among us puts anything out with a name and address on it in this day and age? Why not dispose of an envelope indoors? But, leaving that aside, what pillock decided to go way, way over the top? Why not explain patiently that none of us should be doing this, give her a warning of possible consequences and leave it at that? This is classical bullying, and frankly having seen the Dear Leader's explanation on the BBC last night - he came across as a jumped up little bureaucrat only interested in the money. Pathetic.

Vanessa Smith ● 30d

Makes the £100 fine for tipping some coffee down a road drain a real bargain.£1000 for putting an envelope on top of a pile of cardboard next to a recycling bin? Absolutely out of proportion to the offence.

Andrew Jones ● 31d

There is a more detailed report currently on the front page. As far as I am aware, Hounslow is not the only council that have taken the opportunity to exercise new powers to dramatically increase flytipping fines. For people on low incomes these fines are potentially life changing and they appear to be given out for de minimis offences rather than actual flytipping. People with a reasonable grasp of the law or who take advice will probably reckon it is worth challenge them and get off but more vulnerable people might feel initimidated into paying. It is a terrible way to manage enforcement. Meanwhile actually flytippers (who are never going to leave an envelope with their name and address in the stuff they dump) will continue to go unpunished.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 31d

This was covered at length on the BBC TV London News yesterday evening. I'm all for cracking down on fly-tippers, but as usual LB Hounslow shows an inability to deal with issues proportionally.

Richard Greenhough ● 31d

Officers regulary pick through piles of flytipped stuff to find evidence of who put it there.Putting something with your address in on or near such a pile is not a good idea (if this is what happened).And also, take you address off anything and shred it before recycling/sending it to landfill...

Paul James ● 31d