Forum Topic

Aston Villa v Maccabi Tel Aviv- TNT Sports Ch tonight at 8pm

Tel Aviv supporters have been shamefully denied by the Football Assc and the Govt from coming to support their team.Thousands of police will be on duty outside the stadium to control Birmingham's strong Pakistani contingency.This all means those supporters inside the stadium will be predominantly English Villa supporters.It will be interesting when Tel Aviv take the field; will there be loud booing or polite applause? That moment will be a measure of how our country feels towards the Jewish nation.

Denis I. Fox ● 16d39 Comments

The argument here really isn't so much about the decision but rather whether or not the player is a cheat. Just to be sure about my original assessment (that it was impossible to tell watching on screen but the officials were probably right as they had the best perspective) I had another look at the incident frame by frame. I've changed my view as a result and now say that actually, even on a screen you can see why the penalty was given.

Below is the moment of contact and if you carry on through you'll see Konsa's body actually rotate slightly and this causes him to trip himself up after he has taken another stride forward. As I've tried to explain, this is barely perceptible on screen but would have been obvious to everyone on the pithc. Konsa could have gained a penalty by going down on the initial contact but he continued forward totally focused on the ball and unaware of the slight imbalance that brought him down. Decision was 100% correct and Ezri Konsa is not a cheat.

Andrew OSullivan ● 12d

There was not enough contact for the referee or anyone else to give a penalty imo.Knsa was entitled to claim one as there had been minimal contact,but the decision was poor imo.If you think am going to argue the toss about a penalty decision in a football match with someone who would start an argument in an empty house,think again.

Keith Iddon ● 13d

There is no other possible construct to put on your words:"I think if Konsa had kept control of the ball and not let it run away from him that he would have stayed upright and gone on to attempt a shot at goal.He realised this was not the case so he went down."Aside from this being an obviously inaccurate assessment based on what the footage showed, the off hand callousness of calling a player a cheat on such flimsy grounds is grossly unfair. Players do simulate and deserve to be called out on it. Ezri is not that kind of footballer and dishing out judgement based on what appears to be personal dislike of individuals let's the real offenders off the hook.

Francis Rowe ● 13d

Francis I can't see where anyone on here has called him a cheat.Only you have used that word.I certainly don't think so.

Keith Iddon ● 14d

You should be very wary of calling Ezri Konsa a cheat. He is very popular in these parts despite moving on from Brentford to Villa (fans boo Watkins not him when they return) and is generally recognised as a fine young man who may well be a future England captain.I didn't see the game live but had a look at the recorded highlights of the incident. It quite clearly wasn't a dive and I doubt anyone suggesting it was hasn't played sport since they were forced to at school. The Maccabi player made contact with Ezri's leg just above the ankle as he went past him. This slightly twisted his body angle but he was able to take one step away but, because his left leg had been knocked out of its original alignment when he took the next step his legs got in a tangle.If this hadn't happened he would have easily reached the ball. He is totally focused on it and was shocked and frustrated when he fell to the floor.While I agree with Mark and Andrew that armchair and Match of the Day pundits are too quick to criticise referees, they are also not exercising good judgement in calling out players for diving. It does happen and is a blight on our game but anyone who watches rugby as well as football will have noticed how a tiny amount of contact can result in a player running quickly falling dramatically when tap tackled. This is what happened to Erzi and that is what three match officials and people who seem to know something about the game have concluded.

Francis Rowe ● 14d

I was a bit too young to be allowed to watch England's revenge that ignominious 7-2 defeat in 1955, but was at Wembley 6 years later when England inflicted another heavy defeat on the Auld enemy 9-3.Memories of that day include the heat-middle of April- the opening goal by Bobby Robson, hitting a beautiful daisycutter past hapless goalkeeper Frank Haffey, who got such a hounding from Scotland's press (Scotland were not habitual losers back then) he opted to emigrate to Melbourne, Australia where no doubt he found some peace.Oh, and being shocked by the sight of Scotland's supporters urinating on the terraces behind me at half time.I used to see it down at the Rangers also, Shepherds Bush, not Glasgow.

Denis I. Fox ● 15d

Not from me.

Keith Iddon ● 15d

Anti-semitism ran riot on the streets last night. Blanket excuse seems to be 'we don't hate all Jews, just the bad Zio ones'. Frightening times - sign of a sick society when that most ancient of hatreds, rears its head in such numbers, and with so much widespread support - even here.

Davy Jones ● 15d

Of course it was.Scotland beat england in the century before last 7-2,the worst defeat previous to that one.

Keith Iddon ● 15d

Hungary?!

Peter Evans ● 15d

I refuse to google the answer but England's bogey teams,certainly during my lifetime have been Brazil and Italy,in that order.Either one of those or Scotland I would say.

Keith Iddon ● 15d

Happy to accept that Julian, I didn't watch yesterday's game, as I was taking part in a quiz.Somewhat coincidentally, the final qustion was about which team inflicted England's largest ever football defeat. We guessed right, but didn't answer as quickly as the other team that also got it right.

Andrew Jones ● 15d

He was not far wrong in fairness

Julian Pavey ● 15d

"I started this thread on a contentious football match, so feel entitled to give my opinion on controversial decisions taken by the game's adjudicators:"Indeed you did Denis, and are of course entitled to give your opinion on controversial decisions in the game. That said, you didn't start this thread with with the idea of subsequently talking about what happened, football wise, on the pitch though, did you?

Andrew Jones ● 15d

I started this thread on a contentious football match, so feel entitled to give my opinion on controversial decisions taken by the game's adjudicators:Whenever the referee is asked to view an incident he sees it in slow motion. If he were to watch the tackle or supposed violation in real time he would get an authentic perspective of the speed in contact of both players.I hope one day to see this change.

Denis I. Fox ● 15d

But there are many times when VAR acknowledges that there was contact between attacker and defender in the box and the attacker goes down claiming a penalty,but it adjudges that there was not enough contact to cause the player to go down so easily.I think if Konsa had kept control of the ball and not let it run away from him that he would have stayed upright and gone on to attempt a shot at goal.He realised this was not the case so he went down.I don't think there was enough contact for him to get a penalty.If you look at the footage,he goes past the defender,takes  another stride quite easily,then realises he has lost the ball and trips himself up,whether accidentally or deliberately.If it was determined at the time to be deliberate he could have been  booked for simulation.

Keith Iddon ● 15d

I've never reffed a game but I used to have to organise referees for youth matches. They were like golddust and if you couldn't get a ref there would be no game so I always made a point of chatting to them afterwards making sure they were aware they were appreciated and apologising if there had been any abuse from the sidelines. To a man (and in one case a woman) they all were very annoyed by TV pundits who consistently called out referees on 'errors' which were in fact correct interpretations of the law. The belief was widespread that this was reflected at grassroots with players constantly questioning decisions. Mark's point about the perspective of being on the pitch giving you a much greater chance of being right was one that was echoed by the people at the coal front. Even with a large HD TV looking at the incident last night it is impossible to tell how significant the initial contact was so I don't see how any armchair fan can take a categorical view whether or not it was a penalty. My experience is that even at a very low amateur level, the number of errors by refs is quite low and obviously the standards in the Premier League will be much higher. For that reason I am very reluctant to call out a ref for a mistake unless, as the phrase goes, it is clear and obvious.

Andrew OSullivan ● 16d

Here's where we agree to differ.

Keith Iddon ● 16d

The BBC reporter like us will have seen a two dimensional view. The ref thought it was a foul but went to check with the linesman who had a better perspective. Konsa clearly tripped himself some time after the initial contact but that wasn't what the penalty was given for - on screen it looked like there was earlier contact knee to knee which could have caused him to stumble and then fall. You can't categorically say the officials got it wrong as the contact will have looked very different and probably much clearer in real life than on a screen. If it was my team defending I would have said no pen, but as a neutral, on balance, it probably was the right decision.

Mark Evans ● 16d

Yes,even trained referees can make mistakes.The BBC report of the match agrees with me that there was minimal if any contact Konsa tripped himself up after he had passed the full back.

Keith Iddon ● 16d

On the penalty, I have to admit it looked dubious on TV but two trained referees standing within 20 yards seeing it live rather than on a flat screen like we did thought it was foul.On Denis's claim to have watched lots of football, it looks suspiciously like he is dredging up memories from having seen the Big Match back in the seventies and eighties. Not sure why he is so obsessed with Pakistanis and how he can tell the difference from other Asians, but there have been many in evidence every time I have been to the Emirates and Villa Park. There is no way the ethnic mix of the crowd was reflective of the big Afro Caribbean and Asian populations in the immediate surrounding of the stadium but people from these communities make up a noticeable proportion of the supporters. People from Birmingham of Pakistani origin like Adil Ray are proud supporters of the club. The proportion of Asian fans is less than at grounds like Valley Parade but still significant.

Mark Evans ● 16d

'couldn't finish'

Keith Iddon ● 16d

Yes,Villa were lucky that the Maccabi strikers could finish and they were awarded a very dubious penalty,despite VAR.There was minimal if any contact from the full back and the Villa player tripped himself up once he realised the ball was running away from him.Them's the breaks I suppose.

Keith Iddon ● 16d

So the outcome5 mins of mayhem as Villa fans and pro palestinian fans clashed with bottles being thrown from both sides.Luckily the police brought in the dogs etc and the police took back control.Seems the idea of keeping Maccabi Tel Aviv F.C.fans away from birmingham because they might cause trouble ended up in those very people causing trouble.Pro palestian supporters V Aston villa fans the outcome2-0 to the villa by the way

Julian Pavey ● 16d

Loads of political flags outside and everything else
The vendors are all selling the match scarves 

Julian Pavey ● 16d

Some fruity responses to my post.I will just say two things:It is a shame the authorities have given into the mob, and I am referring to the mob outside Villa Park at this moment.Secondly, from the days watching Jimmy Armfield at Charlton, Billy Bonds at West Ham, George Cohen and Frank Blunstone at Fulham, Roy Bentley at Chelsea, Busby Babes at Old Trafford, Jack Kelsey at Highbury, Danny Blanchflower at White Hart Lane. and right up to Bukayo Saka at the Emirates-I could go on- I do not recall seeing a single Pakistani on the terraces.That is why I believe the crowd inside Viila's stadium this evening will be predominantly English made.Result tonight?Who cares, politics has completely taken over, and all because of that terrible event on October 7th, 2023.

Denis I. Fox ● 16d

I hope there are no political flags waved around by any members of the crowd and if they are,they are removed as per the accepted rules at matches.

Keith Iddon ● 16d

Mark, I have been a football nut for 70 years and have visited  more stadiums and seen more matches than I care to remember.

Denis I. Fox ● 16d

Yes,I saw that horrible debacle.Time we had a sort out me thinks.

Keith Iddon ● 16d

The violence will be from those non-football fans. Like the youth who were fighting last night in Birmingham while firing fireworks directly at police, and while some were shown carrying knives.

Julian Pavey ● 16d

I can't think of any football team anywhere that does not have it's hooligan element.It's far worse in some places abroad than it has ever been here.It seems an overall failure that the mob has determined the agenda here to some degree.Shame and purely patriotically I hope Villa win and that there is no violence from anyone at the game.

Keith Iddon ● 16d

Ha, those Maccabi fans have history. Yeah, a handful in Holland and the away supporters of Hapoel, who share a ground with Maccabi. We could ban PSG and Milan fans. Or even Chelsea and Real Betis fans. Or in general about 5 french clubs. The list is long As far as I can see, Villa fans welcome Maccabi fans, and don't tell people who can come into a community or not.?  That is the issue, and that is wrong. And some of the local talk is wrong or borderline.

Julian Pavey ● 16d

I echo the responses to the totally uninformed comments made by Dennis Fox who clearly knows little about football and it's supporters.I have followed my team ( QPR )  home and away since I was a boy and I have never heard supporters being described through ethnicity or race and yes , they will be booed by some , football supporters are partisan.Also being anti zionist and against the war crimes committed in Gaza and the intimidation by settlers of the Palestinian people in the West Bank is not anti semitic.

David Burke ● 16d

What a misleading and shameful post, Denis. Maccabi declined tickets for their supporters. They weren't prevented from coming by either the club or the government (although, to be fair, a ban was mooted, but eventually dismissed). There were justified concerns about violence after what happened in Amsterdam."Thousands of police will be on duty outside the stadium to control Birmingham's strong Pakistani contingency. This all means those supporters inside the stadium will be predominantly English Villa supporters." What a slur! You imply that Villa's supporters of Pakistani descent are a violent bunch, and that policing will be required outside rather than inside the stadium, where the crowd will be predominantly peaceful white English. Pure racism! As for your comment that the reaction of the crowd when Tel Aviv take the field will be a measure of how our country feels towards the Jewish nation, I suggest that it may be a measure of how we feel towards a genocidal government and its racist supporters, who clearly number among them Maccabi  fans. Stop confusing a hideous oppressive government with "the Jewish Nation". You help advance Netanyahu's defence that all criticism of Israel is antisemitic. There are many Jewish citizens of this country who would take issue with you on this.

Robert Fish ● 16d

This lot have kicked off before. No doubt if they were allowed to the game the knuckle draggers from the far right and left would have been there in numbers and add the locals too. It would have kicked off and after the carnage EUFA would have said oh look the English fans can't behave again and another ban for English clubs could be the result.

Brian Green ● 16d

"Tel Aviv supporters have been shamefully denied by the Football Assc and the Govt from coming to support their team."The decision was taken by the local community safety panel of the council. I've been to Villa Park several times and it strikes me as a very difficult area to manage crowds in. Aston Park is right next door to the ground and on other sides there is low rise residential housing and industrial estates. Given the reputation of the Maccabi Tel Aviv fans and their recent behaviour (which may admittedly be added to by pro-Palestinian counter protests from outside the area) it seems like an eminently sensible decision to ban away support for the benefit of local residents."Thousands of police will be on duty outside the stadium"About 700 will be in attendance. That's a bit higher than normal but there would be a few hundred at a regular game" to control Birmingham's strong Pakistani contingency"The police presence has been boosted primarily because of fears about right wing provacteurs. Stephen Yaxley-Lennon has been going around wearing a Maccabi Tel Aviv shirt and associated groups have been threatening to turn up to protest this 'injustice'."This all means those supporters inside the stadium will be predominantly English Villa supporters."There will probably be Villa fans from the 'Pakistani contingent as well may other groups from the city as there are at every game."It will be interesting when Tel Aviv take the field; will there be loud booing or polite applause? That moment will be a measure of how our country feels towards the Jewish nation."They will be loudly booed as every visiting team is loudly booed. This last comment exposes the fact that you have never been to a game of football in your life which is the explanation for why your posts is, from start to finish total bulls**t.

Mark Evans ● 16d

Israeli club declined the away ticket allocation;

James Roy ● 16d

https://www.thenational.scot/news/24712660.sky-news-deletes-tweet-israel-football-fans-chating-racist-slurs/

Andrew Jones ● 16d

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2024_Amsterdam_riots

Andrew Jones ● 16d