Forum Topic

Crime infested London

A close neighbour, a lovely sharp witted middle aged woman went shopping in Sainsbury this morning and came home distraught and in tears.She had left her shopping trolly for a matter of moments whilst inside the supermarket to gather some items off the shelves. On returning she found to her dismay her handbag missing. An opportunist had pounced and sneaked away with all the trolly's contents plus handbag holding all her vital personal effects.I have related this story merely to remind those out and about to keep their wits about them at all times.  

Denis I. Fox ● 24d41 Comments

Thanks for explaining the reasoning. I still feel uncomfortable about the amount of detail, but I can see better now where you are coming from.

Andrew Jones ● 19d

That kind of is the point Andrew. If you denigrate a group of people by ascribing the characteristics of the worst of them to all of them, then perhaps the only way you will understand how morally bankrupt that is, is if the same thing is done to you.

Francis Rowe ● 19d

Sorry Francis, but that's in bad taste.

Andrew Jones ● 19d

Perhaps I'll leave it to Mark to dismantle the litany of errors and misunderstandings in your previous post but it seems to be just a panicked attempt at deflection from the real problem here = the Steve related crime wave. As a softy liberal you may defend them but you clearly don't care about the victims.Below is a list of just some of the crimes of Steves and I'm sure everyone will agree that this can't be allowed to continue if we want to avoid descending into a crime ridden hell hole.Stephen PortKnown as the “Grindr Killer”Convicted in 2016 of murdering four men and drugging others in East LondonReceived a whole-life sentenceStephen GriffithsThe “Crossbow Cannibal”Killed three women in Bradford (2009–2010)Sentenced to life imprisonmentSteven WrightThe “Suffolk Strangler”Murdered five women in Ipswich in 2006Convicted in 2008 and serving a whole-life tariffStephen FarrowKilled a retired teacher and a vicar in Gloucestershire (2012)Claimed to hate ChristianityReceived a whole-life sentenceSteven BarkerInvolved in the abuse and death of Baby P (Peter Connelly) in 2007Convicted of causing or allowing the death of a childStephen AkinmureleSuspected serial killer (nicknamed the “UK's forgotten serial killer”)Accused of murdering five elderly people in the 1990sDied by suicide in prison before trialStephen UnwinConvicted alongside William McFall for the murder of a disabled woman in 2017Had previously served time for a double murder in 1998Sentenced to a whole-life termStephen NicholsonConvicted in 2019 for the murder and sexual abuse of schoolgirl Lucy McHugh in SouthamptonReceived a life sentenceStephen SearleFormer UKIP councillorConvicted in 2018 of murdering his wife after an affairClaimed self-defence but was found guiltySteven MilesTeen from Surrey who murdered and dismembered his girlfriend in 2014Cited fictional influences (Dexter)Sentenced to life imprisonment

Francis Rowe ● 19d

I don’t quote nonsense figures - I simply fact check others’ assertions. Nexus was piloted in London in 2012 but was rolled out nationally. Mark claimed that crimes committed by illegal immigrants was 0.6%. - his figure. A quick fact check divulged that 9,600,000 crimes were committed in 2024. Hence 57,600 committed by foreign nationals. Mark quickly saw the horror of this figure and conveniently tried to slime his way out by saying Nexus was only London Met. It isn’t but even if it was, it would (by Mark’s figures - not mine) equate to 5898 crimes in London Met committed by illegal immigrants - not 578 as claimed by Mark. That’s 5898 crimes in London (minimum) which wouldn’t have happened if those people had been shipped immediately to Rwanda. It’s impossible to factor in all the crimes committed by illegal immigrants who weren’t caught. However, another very important point about Nexus named criminals is that those under 21 were specifically excluded from data and all under 21 year old criminals arrested under Nexus were / are assigned a social worker. Also, Legal Aid was reinstated for all illegal immigrants arrested for crimes under Nexus.

Steve Taylor ● 20d

As making things up isn't a necessarily a crime, offending by Steve's is probably not fully captured by the data. Illegal immigrants do not commit 57,600 crimes a year in this country as he claims.The figures I quoted earlier were for arrests made in the Metropolitan Police area. If you match this number to the available data for arrests that means that there were around 578 arrests of illegal immigrants in the year.  Looking at overall Met figures for how many arrests end in charging and successful prosecution it is likely that fewer than 100 illegal immigrants were convicted of a criminal offence in the latest 12 month period for which we have information.

Mark Evans ● 20d

Doesn’t deflect from the fact that his figure of 0.59% of crime committed by Stevens equates to 50,300.  It’s shocking. One would indeed have thought that Stevens would try to stay under the radar but they aren’t having any of it. Happy to commit crime brazenly in soft touch Britain - the laughing stock of the world.

Francis Rowe ● 20d

Doesn’t deflect from the fact that his figure of 0.6% of crime committed by illegals immigrants equates to 57,600.  It’s shocking. One would indeed have thought that illegal immigrants would try to stay under the radar but they aren’t having any of it. Happy to commit crime brazenly in soft touch Britain - the laughing stock of the world.

Steve Taylor ● 20d

Francis didn't claim that.He said "that assuming they are no more likely to commit crimes than the average".Now to be fair, Francis should have written "assuming they are no more or no less likely to commit crimes than the average".That, combined with https://genderize.io/names/stevewould give a figure close to 0.56%For my name the figure is higher at approx 0.69%

Andrew Jones ● 20d

Where is your source indicating that 0.56% of people committing crime in 2024 are called Steven?

Steve Taylor ● 20d

https://www.onlondon.co.uk/dave-hill-how-the-populist-right-exploits-london-crime/?fbclid=IwY2xjawLrCLNleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHk0bHuAAk5TaRd-OANfxFldO5GfDdIfr4TKpiQWjuDUhtZ_BKMZoNK35speg_aem_oxAhECNHYsF-l5sjsBQ0hw

Guy Lambert ● 20d

In the same period, assuming they are no more likely to commit crimes than the average, there were 51,900 crimes committed by people called Steven. That's huge!

Francis Rowe ● 20d

“To repeat this shows that 0.6% of crime is committed by illegal immigrants.”Good grief, so 57,600 crimes were committed by illegal immigrants in 2024. That’s huge!  That’s more worrying.

Steve Taylor ● 20d

If shops keep closing eventually the shoplifting figures will be down.

Janice Evans ● 20d

Pointless quoting 2019 figures regarding addict related crime when 2024 figures show a 16% decrease in addict related crime despite the overall 48% increase in shoplifting crime. You can’t always blame the addicts.

Steve Taylor ● 20d

Thanks Mark for putting some context and facts into the debate, to counter the rabble rousing misinformation that others post on here.

Andrew Jones ● 20d

Well, I don't see the point in moaning about these people it is every Government that have failed to address it.

Janice Evans ● 20d

To avoid offence among the mathematically challenged, can I clarify that shoplifting is mainly carried out by people with addiction rather than addition issues!

Mark Evans ● 20d

That the majority of shoplifting is done by people with addition issues is not my theory it is an established fact. This answer to a question in parliament shows that 70% is by those dependent on heroin and crack cocaine. That does not include people with alcohol dependency.https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2019-02-26/226079This whole issue was debated on this forum before when you previously put forward your unevidenced claim that illegal immigrants were driving the rise in shoplifting, proving once again that you are chronically incapable of changing any opinion you hold even if it is verifiably wrong.It is my theory that the resurgence of shoplifting is due to changed sentencing policies due to prison overcrowding. If you have an alternative theory, I'd be interested to hear it rather than prattle.Circling back to the figures posted here by Dennis about crimes per capita committed by individual nationalities, I tracked down where he had cut and pasted them from - an article in Unherd by Mike Jones.As previously pointed out, these are arrests not convictions and therefore, as these countries at the top of the list are the main sources of illegal immigration, it should not be a surprise that they come out on top as a high proportion will have been arrested for an immigration offence. Even then these figures are distorted because you can't compare arrest rates to the general population as these nationalities will be mainly made up of men in their twenties. To get a true measure of how likely particularly nationalities are to commit crime you'd need to take into age, sex, socio-economic group when making comparisons.We don't have this data but that doesn't matter because we do have the figures from Operation Nexus, the Met operation specifically targeting foreign born criminals. To repeat this shows that 0.6% of crime is committed by illegal immigrants. If you think about this logically, it shouldn't be a surprise that people here illegally don't commit crimes - they have to pay thousands to people smugglers to get in so they tend to keep their heads down - picking fruit, working in restaurants and hand car washes and doing deliveries for Deliveroo.Don't get me wrong. I am not saying illegal immigration to this country is a good thing. More effort should be made to stop them including by reducing pull factors such as lax regulation of online delivery company employment. However, the idea that illegal immigrants are responsible for a crime wave is a lie spread by powerful people hoping to weaponise the racism of the gullible for their own ends.The article with the original dodgy statistics is from a publication funded by Paul Marshall who also keeps GB News going. Although he doesn't make many public statements his sharing of racist and Islamophobic posts on social media makes it pretty clear where you stand. Read the publications and watch the TV channels he supports if you wish but treat anything they say with caution otherwise you risk being manipulated.

Mark Evans ● 20d

It isn't a crime to be born outside the UK or for your parents to have been born outside the UK.  It doesn't mean you aren't British.

Philippa Bond ● 21d

The above was in reply to Mark Evans’ rather stupid post of 14:47

Steve Taylor ● 22d

The situation seems to be 'If plan A doesn't work,try plan A until it does'

Keith Iddon ● 23d

"The top five nationalities by arrest rate per capita are Albanians, Afghans, Iraqis, Algerians, and Somalis."Not sure what arrest rate per capita means but the data from Operation Nexus shows that if you exclude arrests over immigration status, illegal immigrants are less likely to commit crimes. If you have similar data for *convictions* for crimes not related to immigration status then let us know. Otherwise your chicken little scaremongering is best ignored.

Mark Evans ● 23d

“ Specifically, around 101,900 people in Bradford were born outside the UK, representing 18.7% of the city's population. The most common country of birth for those not born in the UK is Pakistan”

Steve Taylor ● 23d

There were no carefully selected statistics. Just a random google search and a copy and paste of facts. Even you could do it if you could handle the truth. If I had copied the entire article you would note that crime by addicts has reduced by 16% in London so your theory about addicts is nonsense. You live in a dream world. Fortunately most of us take crime seriously and are not in denial to suit our political agenda.

Steve Taylor ● 23d

Of course it’s pointless bleating on about DNA testing when we don’t have the DNA of illegal immigrants.

Steve Taylor ● 23d

There is no reason for complacency but we remain safer and less likely to be victims of crime (other than online fraud) than we used to be. The reasons for this are obvious, improvements in DNA testing and a blanketing of London with CCTV meant that habitual criminals were usually caught and locked up.We do have a problem looming in that with prisons full and no expansion on the immediate horizon, there is no choice but to let some criminals out. The surge in shoplifting is probably a result of this as people are being realised early or never actually being locked up for this despite being repeat offenders. It is inevitable that a significant proportion of those released will go on to reoffend so that will tend to push crime rates up. As has been rightly observed, this is an offence largely driven by addiction.If you combine this with a reduction in police numbers and general funding for law enforcement plus a stagnant economy, crime will rise. It's unfair to accuse the authorities of not having a clue as the source of the problems are clear and the solutions are not easy.Despite all of this we are a long way from being 'crime infested' and particularly at a local level, the police seem to me to do a really good job and don't recognise the characaterisation of 'softly softly arms length policing'.

Francis Rowe ● 23d

The top five nationalities by arrest rate per capita are Albanians, Afghans, Iraqis, Algerians, and Somalis. In total, 48 other foreign nationalities have higher arrest rates than resident Brits.To date 23,000 and counting of these IRREGULAR IMMIGRANTS have come over in their droves, later to swell our ranks.Without a deterrent we have every right to be concerned about our safety and way of life.

Denis I. Fox ● 23d

Whatever your opinion of crime rates in London,you should be glad you don't live in Bradford,now the most dangerous city in Europe,and Coventry is not far behind.Britain has several cites in the top 20.So much for national 'low level' crime policies,cctv evidence and softly softly policing arms length policing.The authorities haven't a clue about getting a grip.Meanwhile,people who put some offensive words on a blog are taken to the cleaners.

Keith Iddon ● 23d

You can carefully selected statistics for particular crimes that will show rises but it doesn't change the overall picture that London is a lot safer and less prone to crime than it was 30 years ago. Nobody is denying that recent figures show rises but we are still well away from peak levels.Shoplifting has risen alarmingly although this trend tends to have peak. When this was discussed before you once again pointed the finger at illegal migrants. Several people told you to speak to those involved in law enforcement or the retail trade who would have told you that this particular crime is largely carried out by people with addiction issues. You didn't want to listen because you find comfort in your own ill informed views.

Mark Evans ● 23d

“ London's street crimewave revealed: Shoplifting rises 48% as pickpocketing and phone snatching surgeShoplifting offences have increased by 48 per cent in the capital with more than 70,000 incidents recorded in a year- Overall theft has risen by 10 per cent, with an average of 1,278 theft offences recorded every dayThe number of knife crime offences recorded in London has reached its highest level in 13 years, with 15,859 offences reported- Violent crimes have seen a small increase of 1 per cent, while 4 per cent less homicides were reported compared with last yearLondon is one of only two regions, including the South West, to have recorded an overall rise in offences in a year. The British Transport Police saw the greatest annual increase in recorded offences of any force, with a rise of 18 per cent.The number of recorded offences fell in every other region, and decreased nationally by 4 per cent.Nationally, police forces recorded a 29 per cent rise in shoplifting offences. The total of 469,788 offences is the highest since current records began in the year to March 2003.”

Steve Taylor ● 23d

Once again Steve Taylor is just making things up to suit his prejudices. Petty crime is not rampant in London and is not driven by illegal immigration. Nobody is 'suggesting' the longer term trend in offending is down, they are pointing you to the data which shows it is. Nobody is denying that crime has been on the rise and that cutting police numbers is likely to see that rise increase but we are still nowhere near the kind of crime levels seen a few decades ago.Crime in London is definitely not driven by illegal immigrants. This migrant crime lie is very dangerous and was used by Trump to gain power and the result is now the detention and deportation of large number of people mainly because they have the wrong colour skin. We must not allow these racist falsehoods to take hold in this country.The most reliable data that we have is from Operation Nexus a joint taskforce between the Met and the Home Office specifically targeting offending by foreign nationals in London. This shows that 0.6% of arrests were of illegal immigrants and that their propensity to commit crime (other than offences relating to immigration status) was below that of foreign born nationals generally and the overall population. The reasons for this have been explained to Steve Taylor before, if you are here illegally you keep your head down and try to avoid any contact with the police.I'd urge people to start trusting their own experience and the evidence of their own eyes over alarmist posts on social media which have the sole aim of trying to manipulate you.

Mark Evans ● 23d

Greater Rome has less than half the ‘recorded’ population of Greater London. Petty crime in London is rampant - probably driven by illegal immigration. Strange that the people suggesting that crime has dropped are the same ones complaining about police cuts under Teresa May. Strange also that the Met Police Commissioner complains about crime increase and police being unable to cope.

Steve Taylor ● 23d

You forget the crime that is not reportedIt's a big percentage

Julian Pavey ● 24d

There has been rampant shoplifting in all local shops for the past two years, plus consistent car theft and burglaries. The sound of a helicopter hovering overhead in the middle of the night is not uncommon.To talk of persistent crime locally is not scaremongering.

Denis I. Fox ● 24d

There is no harm in warning others what can happen.

Janice Evans ● 24d

Thank-you Francis for some common sense and putting the record straight, London is hardly 'crime infested' - talk about hysteria.

Vanessa Smith ● 24d

While it is very sad to hear of anyone become a victim of theft let's try and avoid hysterical reactions claiming we live in a crime infested city.Total recorded crime in London peaked in the late 1990s and early 2000s, particularly for violent offences, burglaries, and car thefts.Since then, most crime types — especially burglary, robbery, and car crime — have declined steeply.The decline mirrors a nationwide trend across England and Wales, supported by Home Office and Office for National Statistics (ONS) data.London had over 1.06 million offences in 2003–04. That fell to around 740,000 by 2012–13. It has since risen again somewhat (to around 912,000 in 2022–23), largely driven by changes in recording practices and the huge rise in online fraud.London is also relatively safe when compared to other cities of equivalent size and European cities such as Paris and Rome. While we should never let up on pressure on the authorities to reduce crime, let's not forget to celebrate the relatively safe and brilliant city that we live in and acknowledge past successes in making it even better.

Francis Rowe ● 24d

Poor woman,I hope she is not too shaken up and is ok.Good luck to her in getting the police to solve this for her.CCTV means next to nothing and there is no real deterrant or punishment even if the perp.is found.It's a 'low level'crime to the authorities.

Keith Iddon ● 24d

I can understand the thieves taking the handbag out of the trolley but what’s the point of them taking all the trolley contents if they’re going to have to pay for them at checkout?

Steve Taylor ● 24d

Yes we were warning about this a few weeks ago, they will take your shopping, we had one shopping bag taken some weeks ago, we are now extra careful, and women use a crossbody handbag and keep it beneath outer clothing it's so easy to be distracted while shopping.

Janice Evans ● 24d