Forum Topic

Weedkiller blamed for bee population decline now deemed to be safe

From front page story.Finally!

Bruce Hammal ● 58d20 Comments

https://www.birdguides.com/news/pesticides-a-major-contributor-to-global-biodiversity-crisis-says-stud/?fbclid=IwY2xjawIocexleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHZ6tGTTGmu33JNuEb5iXhuwUB_yg0rO2L41fbxSqeQ11e0b8IzwHgk9wLA_aem_WnAKaOodh1h-5ZJENBnZGAAnother report calling for a reduction in the use of these chemicals.

Philippa Bond ● 40d

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(23)00255-3/fulltext

Philippa Bond ● 56d

Simply brushing pavements with a stiff brush more often than happens here makes it harder for any plants to take root.  This is something that the majority of residents elsewhere in the world find no problem in doing but few nowadays do here.  However more damage is done to pavements by motor traffic and many residents just step over the problems while looking at their phones without even bothering to report those bigger problems which are dangerous to pedestrians.

Philippa Bond ● 57d

The current evidence - and to be clear additional studies may change the views - is that glyphosate does not cause cancer in humans unless exposed at very high levels but does cause high levels of mortality in bees.Basically we all, including local authorities, should try and move away from Round Up and similar weed killers.  The problem is that many of the alternatives are potentially even more toxic, just not usually to bees.  So concentrated vinegar is an excellent weed killer but also an excellent rat, mouse, vole etc killer.

Justin Stephenson ● 57d

Phillipa, come and find me on Fridays not hiding, working at Dukes Meadows seeding for wildflowers, tree planting, maintaining all the trees hedges and meadows we've planted.I help bio diversity by doing things that have a good chance of actually helping. Being able to use Glyphosate to spray off the vegetation around trees, then mulching will protect them from drought and strimming. I heard a talk by a guy from the Environment Agency. He explained they use Glyphosate to kill invasive vegetation  in water channels. The alternative would be to dredge, which would destroy any life at the bottom of the channel. Or not clear water courses which would cause flooding. He also mentioned that salt, sometimes suggested as an alternative to kill weeds, is four times more toxic than Glyphosate and persistent.It seems the most vociferous voices against Glyphosate don't actually do much practical management of land.

Kathleen Healy ● 57d

The Wildlife Trusts on Neonics + the request that farmers be supported to move away from them:https://www.wildlifetrusts.org/news/deadly-neonicotinoids-ban-must-bring-overdue-respite-bees-say-wildlife-trusts

Philippa Bond ● 57d

Herbicides are actually a type of pesticide!From Google:Pesticides are used to eliminate pests by either killing or poisoning their target. We consider certain things to be pests if they infringe on our access to food, spread disease, harm the environment, or cause damage to our property. The term ‘pests’ can refer to insects, mammals, weeds, birds, microorganisms, and these are just to name a few. In order to eliminate these pests, various types of pesticides are used, some of which are as follows:     Herbicides - a weed killer that is toxic to plants    Rodenticides - used to eliminate rodents    Insecticides - a method for poisoning insectsHope this helps.

Gail Busza ● 57d

https://deframedia.blog.gov.uk/2025/01/24/coverage-of-pesticide-emergency-authorisation-being-denied-to-protect-pollinators/Hopefully this includes all and not just some of the problematic neonics.

Philippa Bond ● 57d

Gail, apologies. I just cut and pasted the title from the front page headline so I'm guilty of laziness rather than ignorance in this case!The thing that does bemuse me is why weedkillers which are herbicides are so often referred to as pesticides. Perhaps you can explain?

Bruce Hammal ● 57d

Missing data in submissions for approval...https://www.euronews.com/green/2024/01/25/ngos-launch-legal-challenge-against-commission-over-glyphosatehttps://www.euronews.com/health/2023/11/17/france-to-continue-compensating-farmers-with-parkinsons-disease-linked-to-glyphosate-use

Philippa Bond ● 57d

"The advice explains, amongst other things, that Glyphosate doesn't contain noenicitinoids that are damaging to bees."Bruce, it's a shame that this site has no editing facility, as the title of your thread is incorrect. Neonicotinoids are damaging to bees, not glyphposate.

Gail Busza ● 57d

I know Kathleen's stance and I think she finds it too easy to hide behind the fact there has been a questionable OK for a cheap and easy risk-taking option!

Philippa Bond ● 57d

No re Glyphosate:There has been extremely heavy lobbying by those who make money out of it and the way that it has been assessed has been heavily criticised.  The caution that is supposed to be used in allowing its use has not been.Those that want to take their chances with using it do so at the risk of causing health problems to those who may inadvertently and unknowingly come into contact with it -let alone using it -  the risks of Parkinsons and neurotoxicity etc all to place a quick easy and cheap tick on their spreadsheet/clipboard.It would be better to research, learn and know the plants that you don't want to grow in a particular area and target them instead of spraying everything in sight.  There is already a big problem with pollution in run-off water in our rivers let alone what is happening to the soil biome.There were very many lawsuits in the US against Monsanto which has now been sold to German company Bayer.https://www.clientearth.org/latest/press-office/press-releases/next-step-glyphosate-approval-is-now-in-the-european-court-of-justice/Re Neonics the Govt this year has a ban.  (Bees pollinate crops and neonics are believed to cause a problem with their navigational powers.)

Philippa Bond ● 57d

'More to stop the damaging of pavements by cars, vans and lorries driving over them and parking on them which causes far greater damage to pavements.There are far too many door to door deliveries especially of small items and they are too cheap and most people could pick these up themselves from a local hub or arrange for them to be collected if necessary.Find a way to make sure that all building owners and builders and utility companies etc take more responsibility and care when carrying out works on their properties and protect and make good to an approved standard the public paths surrounding the works.'Not quite sure how that reply squares with the question posed. Although I do agree with you about people driving over footpaths to park in their front gardens, something the council are lamentable at enforcing on. However, it has to be recognised that the physical removal of weeds from footpaths and roadside kerbs - apart from being physically bloody hard work, is also not that effective at removing the roots, the constant hard digging required is also very damaging to both pavements and the highways leading to yet more money being needed to repair them. Please do read Kathleen Healy's reply (on this thread) regarding Glyphosate use. Not using this remedy has cost all local authorities huge amounts of money for a totally ineffective scheme on the back of a lot of disputable and one-sided publicity.

Vanessa Smith ● 57d

I suspect that local authorities latched on to the anti-glyphosate stance partly because it was another green box they could tick, but mostly for financial reasons. The greening and rewilding of urban areas seemed like a great idea at the time - no need to bother with all those pesky weeds any more, we should just learn to love them and the council would save on the cost of weedkiller and the labour required to maintain thousands of pathways. Unfortunately they soon found out that this led to pavements looking more like jungle trails than public rights of way, and not surprisingly people started complaining. At this point, despite being told it was a waste of time, manual weeding was introduced. This of course has only a temporary effect and needs doing repeatedly, not once a year which is what was budgeted for.Then they got the bill  and money being king these days, suddenly glyphosate wasn't so bad after all! "I told you so" has never been a more apposite riposte.

Bruce Hammal ● 57d

The advisor to public bodies on Health & Safety in the Health & Safety Executive (HSE). Often pilloried as over cautious killjoys or "elf and safety gone mad".Having one body to advise all public sector organisations saves every sector having to employ their own team of scientists. The HSE assesses Glyphosate as safe for people and the environment. The advice explains, amongst other things, that Glyphosate doesn't contain noenicitinoids that are damaging to bees.There are great opportunities to support bio diversity in parks and open spaces through changes in management. There are many serious threats to the environment; rivers degraded by sewage and agricultural run off is a huge problem.The Glyphosate panic is not borne out by any evidence, has eaten up scarce public funds and been a big distraction from tackling problems that are a real and serious threat and pursuing low cost opportunities to support bio diversity in parks and open spaces.The oft quoted IARC conclusion that Glyphosate is "probably" carcinogenic has no risk assessment attached to it. It is on a list of things such as working as a barber or hairdresser.

Kathleen Healy ● 57d

I'm looking forward to the Council paper outlining their "evidence"."the Council has satisfied itself with evidence pointing to low human and environmental impacts with appropriate, regulated use."

Tim Henderson ● 57d

For a start:More to stop the damaging of pavements by cars, vans and lorries driving over them and parking on them which causes far greater damage to pavements.There are far too many door to door deliveries especially of small items and they are too cheap and most people could pick these up themselves from a local hub or arrange for them to be collected if necessary.Find a way to make sure that all building owners and builders and utility companies etc take more responsibility and care when carrying out works on their properties and protect and make good to an approved standard the public paths surrounding the works.

Philippa Bond ● 57d

So, Philippa, now that council after council has realised that currently there is no effective or affordable alternative to glyphosate, what do you propose they do?

Bruce Hammal ● 58d

That doesn't of course mean that it is.  There has been enormous lobbying over this.https://corporateeurope.org/en/2023/11/how-pesticide-lobby-sabotaging-eu-pesticide-reduction-law-surhttps://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2018/10/17/monsanto-red-flag-glyphosate-roundup-eu/The UK exports banned pesticides.  When something is banned by law here it doesn't mean that we are banned from exporting it elsewhere... https://www.publiceye.ch/en/media-corner/press-releases/detail/uk-exported-enough-banned-bee-killing-pesticides-last-year-to-cover-area-bigger-than-england-investigation-revealsFrom speaking to people here you realise that they do not take the precautions that are written on the packaging and presume that it would not be sold if it was still a problem.

Philippa Bond ● 58d