Forum Topic

Trade War on Chiswick High Road

If you haven't already realised that giving your custom to local owned businesses gives you a better experience, is better for the national economy and helps bring in more tax, then now is perhaps the time to take a close look at where you shop.There are better alternatives to Starbucks, KFC, Five Guys and Chipotle. There is every reason to avoid ordering through Deliveroo and Uber Eats and if you use ride hire Estonian owned Bolt is cheaper than Uber.On the other side of the coin, if there are Canadian and Mexican businesses we can support please post here.

Anita Blake ● 100d60 Comments

It has to be conceded that Steve is right and these delivery services are super efficient. That is partly down to technology but mainly due to the fear that the delivery riders have of poor ratings. They will immediately be terminated after a relatively small number of customer complaints. The red light jumping and generally inconsiderate riding is caused by tight controls on delivery time performance.Steve might feel that this is justifiable because he doesn't have to wait an extra 5 minutes for his McDonalds double quarter pounder even when he learns that many of the people arriving on small boats are coming here to take these gig economy jobs.He clearly hasn't spoken to a single person in the restaurant industry if he thinks these services are good news for the hospitality industry. Like Andrew I have talked about the subject with people who are trying to make a living in this sector and the stories are horrifying.The only thing that might change his mind is if he ever took the time to visit what he imagines to be the vibrant town of Park Royal where most of his favourite restaurants are only to find himself in an industrial estate.

Francis Rowe ● 2h

I never use these delivery services so as not to support their exploitative business models, nor Uber for the same reason.

Peter Evans ● 10h

“ working as they are under generally exploitative ‘employment’ conditions.”If you feel so strongly about this you could always mitigate your conscience by giving them a huge tip. Or if it’s the fact that they are riding illegally or are in the  country illegally, you could have the immigration police hiding in your garden ready to pounce when you delicious meal is delivered.

Steve Taylor ● 18h

Though many mo-bike delivery riders seem new to bike riding, still displaying L-plates and often appearing unfamiliar with our traditions, such as keeping left at traffic islands, stopping at red lights and not riding on the pavement, doubtless in their haste to effect a quick delivery and get onto the next one, working as they are under generally exploitative ‘employment’ conditions.

Peter Evans ● 23h

Oh dear, it seems you old people don’t understand how UberEats, Just Eat etc work. If you order from your favourite restaurant through one of the delivery Apps you are still supporting your favourite eatery but you are simply ensuring you get your food promptly.  The delivery companies have to show the actual address, on their App, of the eatery you are ordering from and you can track the driver of the the delivery bike every step of the way from the restaurant to your front door. No way can the food be coming out of one of your so called Dark Kitchens.  These delivery companies are here to stay and without them your takeaway industry will collapse. PS. The reason these delivery companies are brilliant is because they deliver swiftly using electric motor bikes and scooters so they can get through traffic quickly. Much better than getting the restaurant to deliver because they inevitably use the owners’ large SUV and takes far too long to deliver. UberEats always seem to deliver on registered motor cycles or scooters so they are subject to fines if they jump lights etc. They provide the name of the driver and the make, model and registration of the motor cycle before they deliver. All you old guys who struggle with progress seem keen on criticising when you have very obviously NEVER used the service.  Whinge on because the service is here to stay. Get over it.

Steve Taylor ● 1d

I'm pretty sure Steve is getting Deliveroo mixed up with his Meals on Wheels service.

Mark Evans ● 2d

Maybe Steve always insists that his Uber deliveries come via SUVs, and refuses to pay if a cycle or e-bike courier has the temerity to turn up on his doorstep ;)

Andrew Jones ● 2d

I'm amazed someone as obsessed with bad cycling can describe the online delivery companies as offering a professional service. They use a gig economy based model which means that they have no responsibility when riders carrying their livery break the law by running red lights or not having lights at night.There is quite a lot of good investigative research into how there is an online resale market for delivery rider registrations which means that they are subcontracted often to people who don't have the right to work in this country. I don't blame the riders for doing this - the business model of these companies is exploitative in nature.You are being complacent if you think checking for a hygiene rating will protect you from inadvertently ordering from a dark kitchen. They are all required to have a rating and most delivery service will ditch any business that gets two stars or lower.Some takeaways don't accept phone orders but that is because they are afraid of punishment from the delivery companies if they get found out. However, given the huge fees they are charged by the delivery companies, many will pay the riders, who congregate outside their premises to do deliveries outside the app. If you want your favourite places to survive in this very difficult environment then, as has been suggested, get their number or email address and order direct. If you don't you may find you have no choice but to order your food from a dark kitchen.

Francis Rowe ● 2d

“ However, it doesn't take much extra effort to get the takeaway menu of the places you order regularly from and place your order by phone.”As said many of these places don’t offer a professional delivery service but it doesn’t take any effort to search for your favourite takeaway places or restaurants on Uber or Just Eat or Deliveroo and have your food delivered efficiently and quickly. I would never order from a takeaway place I haven’t actually seen and without checking their Hygiene Rating. No chance of ever getting a delivery from one of those Dark Kitchens you mention.

Steve Taylor ● 3d

You need to speak to people in the hospitality industry before reaching a firm conclusion that this is a win win. Better still talk to someone who used to work in that sector but saw their business fail. The way that a company like Deliveroo works is that it analyses the data it collects to work out its market share in particular food types. If it is not doing well let's say in Chinese food in the W4 area it will approach local providers and encourage them to sign up. The terms are not particularly attractive for the restaurant but it is made plain that if they don't join, the app will push competitors in the area.  The competitors are not actually proper restaurants but so called dark kitchens in industrial estates where people on the minimum wage put together lists of ingredients. Because of the high turnover in the restaurant business people assume a restaurant which they are told is in their area is real but it isn't. This process is just beginning because, as others have highlighted on this forum, a mega dark kitchen facility is being built in North Acton, about a 10 minute delivery time away from Chiswick which will contain over 240 restaurants. These will become direct competition for the independent restaurants in our area and allow companies like Deliveroo to extract even more onerous terms from those that survive. I understand that people have busy lives and, particularly if you live on your own, it is valuable to be able to order up a cuisine of your choice for delivery. However, it doesn't take much extra effort to get the takeaway menu of the places you order regularly from and place your order by phone.

Andrew OSullivan ● 4d

I’m not quite sure what damage these delivery companies do to independent take always and restaurants. All they do is deliver the food prepared by your supplier of choice. Surely it’s a win win for all concerned especially the take away place which can reach a broader market?

Steve Taylor ● 10d

Many takeaway places no longer offer delivery and, those that do, offer a shoddy service. Food arrives late, cold etc. The likes of Deliveroo, Uber Eats, Just Eat etc have honed in on providing excellent service where it was far from satisfactory when provided by restaurant s or takeaway places. Like Amazon these companies do a superb service and they are here to stay.

Steve Taylor ● 10d

Anita said at the start of this thread that Deliveroo was an American company but I have just been reading that it was actually founded in the UK. However, it is in the process of being taken over by Door Dash which is American.In any case, the main reason for not using these online delivery companies is not the nationality of ownership but the damage their predatory trade tactics do to independent local businesses. If you like a takeaway get the phone number of the place you regularly order from.

Francis Rowe ● 10d

Surely, make your own food. It's your clean hands, your herbs & spices etc etc. Takeaways, too many hands handling the food, you don't know what's happened to it by the time you get it, disgusting, bike fumes, quickest way to get food poisoning. Are people becoming so brainwashed like it's normal to have food delivered this way all the time. And how come all the owners are European countries?

Carl Johns ● 43d

My spies tell me ma&pa live upstairs, Lovell Junior didn't want to run a shop

Guy Lambert ● 44d

Lovell's Flower shop was open in the 90's then reduced hours and eventually closed.  The owners used to live upstairs and may still do.

Chris Lucy ● 44d

I have been told by local residents over the years that the shop's owner, an old boy kept the shop going solely to store furniture and his bits and pieces, all kept from the public's gaze by those arty blinds.I have never seen, or heard of any form of life going in or out of that shop.

Denis I. Fox ● 45d

"Lovell’s was a florist in the sixties and seventies"It was still a florist in the mid-eighties, when I moved to Chiswick.

Gail Busza ● 45d

Guy: Electoral Rolls/Census returns might show something for Lovell’s address.

Peter Evans ● 45d

"I remain intrigued by Lovell's in the rather elegant but as far as I can remember never active shop next door to the old police station."Many years ago, Lovell's was a flower shop.

Gail Busza ● 46d

Lovell’s was a florist in the sixties and seventies. It was run by a local family who used to live there, I don’t know why or when the  shop closed. But do remember some members of the family still lived on the premises after closure.Like a lot of residents I have no idea of the present situation.

Bernard Allen ● 46d

On ChiswickW4 on 28th Jan 2024, this appeared in an article about the proposed police station development:‘Lovells, which occupies 203 Chiswick High Road, the only building that abuts the planned development, has commissioned an independent light assessment by XC02, which contradicts the findings of the consultant employed by Birchgrove on the loss of light to neighbouring properties.‘Lovells also contends that the traffic generated by the 50 units including regular ambulance visits will cause undue pressure on an ‘already saturated’ Linden Gardens unless access is enabled from Prince of Wales Terrace.’,,so somebody must be connected to this property. Planning docs might reveal more.

Peter Evans ● 46d

Looking at Google Street cam over the years, Lovell’s shop seems to have contained the same randomly distributed contents for at least the past ten years.

Peter Evans ● 46d

I remain intrigued by Lovell's (though some sources think it's Lovelly because the script is misinterpreted!) in the rather elegant but as far as I can remember never active shop next door to the old police station. Internet investigation has got me nowhere much.What is this place all abouty, what is its history, how long has it been there?

Guy Lambert ● 46d

I think WHSmith will still be at airports and train stations but just not in the high streets.

Philippa Bond ● 46d

There is a curious longevity to death.

Mark Frost ● 46d

W H Smith's to disappear from our High Road? Wow! how the mighty have been falling over the years. Agreed WHS has become a bit tired looking in recent times.Thus, Bond's, the Funeral Directors remain the longest serving businesson CHR!Is that so?

Jim Lawes ● 46d

Not surprisingly, there are several shops called 'TGJones' in Wales already. The new owners must have been thinking of 'Alias Smiths and Jones' when they came up with this idea!

Peter Evans ● 46d

Somehow T G Jones doesn't have the same ring to it as W H Smiths - or even W H Smugs as they were popularly known.

Richard Greenhough ● 46d

- have sold their brand, new owner and new name coming. Oh no, another bit of nostalgia disappeared from our lives.

Anna Kirkpatrick ● 46d

"A car came past me very fast, and very close to me before turning off into Grange Road"Sounds like some BMW drivers are switching to Teslas.

Richard Greenhough ● 46d

As we have had two Teslas locally where the rear nearside wheels 'parted company' with the vehicle (one on the A4 and the other on Pope's Lane Ealing) I think that I shall pass on such exceptional build quality.Amazed to see the continued adulation of Musk to the point where he was hailed as a 'hero' for 'rescuing' the two astronauts from the ISS.  I am sure that there are some rednecks who think that he suspended his role as mild-mannered Buzz Lightyear to pilot his own rocket to the ISS from where he personally rescued the two stranded astronauts.

N V Brooks ● 46d

I am a bit of a nerd about cars and this week I have been looking out for brand new cars registered in March. So far I have recorded 6 such cars. One was a Kia - made in KoreaTwo were MGs - made in ChinaOne was a Peugeot - made I think in FranceOne was a Mercedes, Made in Germany.Yesterday I only saw one as I cycled home along Wellesley Road. A car came past me very fast, and very close to me before turning off into Grange Road or maybe Oxford Road North, the rat runner favourite. Inevitably it was a Tesla.

Guy Lambert ● 46d

As this seems to be kicking off in earnest now it is perhaps worth reflecting that 71% of American's economic output comes from states that didn't vote for Trump. The most effective way for this country to target a 'red' state is to stop buying American whiskey most of which comes from Kentucky. 

Andrew OSullivan ● 47d

That's what you get if you marry the head girl of St Trinian's (twice).

Richard Greenhough ● 57d

We were driving west on the A40 approaching the Hanger Lane Gyratory when we noticed a large crowd of people some of whom had crossed to the central reservation.It was only as we were moving through them that we spotted they were outside the Tesla garage and some of them were holding up 'Honk if you hate Elon signs'. It was too late for us to do so but we would have if we'd have known.

Anita Blake ● 57d

People I work with who have a better understanding of usage of data than I do are adamant that you should not use Facebook regardless of the policies of the American government. I've been off it for years but WhatsApp is more difficult to dump.

Mark Evans ● 64d

Not difficult to find American companies to boycott. Tesla is far too expensive for me anyway, but I got out of Twitter when Musk started talking about civil war in the UK. I stopped using Amazon many years ago (even before I learnt it was originally called Relentless) and stopped my sub to Washington Post when I realized Bezos owned it. Facebook is obvious but I haven't yet weaned myself from that

Guy Lambert ● 67d

These lines are often very difficult to draw. Take Starbucks for instance, a global company but its European HQ is here in Chiswick and some local people may be employed there. Other than for reasons of the quality of the coffee, should we be boycotting them? My wife often went around local shops for fund raising and sometimes local businesses owners were very dismissive including one on Devonshire Road who was straight out aggressively rude. On the other hand sometimes the local managers of chains were great and had a fund set aside for local sponsorship. You are right though that generally the more local the ownership, the more likely they were to be generous.

Andrew OSullivan ● 67d

That's an interesting angle on the NICs rise. I don't necessarily agree totally but you are right that it will end with the closure of many businesses probably including some on the High Road.The other point I'd make on the value of our local traders is that, as anyone who has gone round asking for sponsorship or other fundraising activities, they are far more supportive than larger companies. This means more of the money you spend there stays in our community.

Anita Blake ● 70d

"We should also be looking at where things are made."Just noticed the tiny label inside my new Kenwood fridge freezer, bought from Currys. "Made in China". I don't think it includes a spy camera or microphone, but you never know.....!

Richard Greenhough ● 70d

This whole thing is fiendishly complicated and although Trump's simplistic approached based on trade deficits is nonsense, I don't think anybody would be able to concisely explain how international commerce works.The key thing to focus on is where the value added is. If most of the 'designed in Cornwall' products' profits effectively come from design rather than manufacturing, then it is probably quite legitimate to put a Union Jack sticker on it.Any electronics product you by will probably have components from Korea, Taiwan, PRC and American in it with payments having to be made for IP to other countries.This makes exercising consumer choice to make a statement about America's abandonment of liberal democratic values very difficult other than the obvious boycotting of Starbucks, Deliveroo, Uber Eats and KFC. As I never gave them my money anyway, I am struggling to see how I can utilise my limited spending power to make a point.

Francis Rowe ● 70d

I find it easy to spot most things which are made in China. Be careful, though. There is quite often a Union Jack on the cardboard label of an item while deep inside there is a label saying 'Made in China'. What the cardboard label means is that the item was designed in the UK. Seasalt clothing is, for example, 'designed in Cornwall' but certainly not made there.Out of interest, which everyday items are USA made? I can't say I can think of any.

Anne England ● 71d

With a trade war with the US now seemingly very close another point worth considering is the looming rise in NICs. This is obviously a very damaging tax for the economy and will put lots of companies out of business. The government has been heavily criticised about it and perhaps they should be looking more at the expense side of the budget but we need to remember that any sniff of fiscal looseness would see interest rate premiums rise and ultimately hurt far more. One of the reasons that NICs was chosen out of a range of bad options is that smaller businesses generally pay Corporation Tax but larger multinational ones don't so putting that up would just make an unlevel playing field more unlevel. This doesn't just apply to American companies but they will use transfer pricing to ensure that any tax liability lands in the country with the lowest tax rates. Unlike many other parts of the UK, the Chiswick area still has a relatively high number of businesses which are independently run. If your preference is for a larger chain, maybe check their tax management policies before purchasing from them again but generally our local traders will really need your support in what are likely to be difficult times ahead.

Andrew OSullivan ● 71d

It's not a great look owning a Swasticar.

Stewart Jones ● 87d

Exactly my thoughts funny enough.

Janice Evans ● 87d

I'm not surprised, who would want to own such an ugly looking car?

peter king ● 87d

Tesla sales are plummeting in Europe 🇪🇺🇬🇧 -18.2%🇫🇷 -63.4%🇳🇱 -42.5%🇳🇴 -40.2%🇪🇸 -75.4%🇸🇪 -46.0%🇩🇰 -40.9%🇵🇹 -31.0%Total: -47.7%Data from Dancing Queen on XCome on UK, get with the programme!

Guy Lambert ● 87d

We should also be looking at where things are made.I recently refused to buy some bedding made in China.

Chris Lucy ● 87d

You can spend your money where you want but you should think about the ethics of the companies you are buying from and the countries the goods come from. Canadian boycotts of certain US products seem to have caused Trump to back down on blanket tariffs and it may not be long before he turns his attention to this country. 

Andrew OSullivan ● 88d

I’d like to think I can spend my money wherever I want thank you very much. Please shuffle along……

John Bird ● 89d

No they are not because Tesla has never paid its shareholders any dividends.

Francis Rowe ● 98d

Of course you will. Meanwhile those with shares are seeing wonderful dividends.

Steve Taylor ● 98d

I am looking forward to seeing the Tesla sales figures over the next few months across UK and Europe.  Suspect many may rethink their choice of EV, I know I certainly will.

Matthew Swain ● 98d

Peter, the Zoom warehouse in South Acton isn't a dark kitchen but a facilitation centre. I believe their delivery riders are employed directly so they shouldn't be put in the same category as the food delivery companies such as Deliveroo and Uber Eats whose employment practices are reprehensible. Francis is right that the ten storey building in North Acton is something to be aware of as it will have a massive impact on local food businesses. It was approved last March but I don't know when it comes online.

Andrew OSullivan ● 98d

Thanks for "Tallin" us about the Estonian ownership of 'Bolt' Anita!

Jim Lawes ● 99d

We already have an Ocado 'Zoom' warehouse and other dark kitchens on the nearby South Acton Industrial Estate, with increasing numbers of their pedal cargo bikes rattling through our back streets with their straining delivery riders.

Peter Evans ● 99d

Always best to order direct rather than through a delivery app from whatever nation. Companies like Deliveroo offer 'discounts' on order for which the prices have already been inflated. People should be aware that they are likely to be pushing hard deliveries from a mega dark kitchen due to be built in North Acton in which minimum wage employees will slave away in units with no natural light producing food for over 200 'restaurants'.

Francis Rowe ● 99d

We don't Eat takeaways that often, safe for the excellent Best Kebab fish bar on Albany Road Brentford. Both Just Eat and Deliveroo load the takeaway prices by up to 40% and then have the temerity to charge a delivery fee.

N V Brooks ● 99d

Thanks NV.It turns out that Just Eat, previously listed on the London Stock exchange (Despite having been originally Danish) was taken over by Takeaway.com of Netherlands. It is now going to be delisted in London and listed only in Netherlands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Eat_Takeaway.com

Guy Lambert ● 99d

If you must get food delivered then JustEat is Dutch-owned.

N V Brooks ● 100d