Forum Topic

former Tesla showroom acquired

The former Tesla showroom on the Hogarth roundabout has been acquired by a Chinese car maker that plan to use it. Does anyone have any knowledge on the rental & other costs like council tax etc on such a prime commercial location on the Hogarth roundabout? I bet Tesla moved because of the costs in renting and running this property.

Carl Johns ● 61d24 Comments

The time horizons of the Chinese are the most important thing to bear in mind. They probably identified in 2016 that our estrangement from the rest of Europe and the resulting slow puncture economy made us likely to come to them as a supplicant at some point. The election of Trump is a bonus that will just accelerate the process. The changing of the sign at the Tesla garage probably isn't the only alteration to our landscape that is resulting from this - the huge towers to our north will be homes to large numbers of Chinese students.Although this relationship has some logic to it and we have things to offer the Chinese, we are very much the junior partner and, unlike us, they have not forgotten the humiliations we heaped on them in the past so the amity is just on the surface.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 38d

You are right. People have already raised hackers and that combine with data protection laws will provide a ready excuse to exclude Chinese made vehicles. The question going forward is whether the UK allows Chinese vehicles into any future autonomous network which, if it did, might end any prospect of it being compatible with the EU grid. It's early days on all this but the Chinese, who remember will not be thinking about next quarter's earning but of a ten year plan, will probably be looking to establish brand recognition. That is why the Hogarth Roundabout garage works for them even if they don't sell a single car from the showroom.

Andrew OSullivan ● 41d

Cars that will be able to operate on the European autonomous grid will still be sold here. People will want to be driven in their own cars down to the south of France and Tuscany. However, the chances of any of these vehicles being made in the UK will be minimal. Those unable to afford these vehicles will probably need to drive Chinese made vehicles which won't be compatible with the European network.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 44d

It is perhaps best not to get confused between autonomous cars and EVs. The former is coming and the EU will probably look to protect its car industry by imposing specific standards. In ten years time it may be necessary to hire a car on the continent if you want to drive there.

Andrew OSullivan ● 45d

Not sure about hackers but if you are worried about a car exploding you are statistically much safer in an EV that one powered by an internal combustion engine.

Francis Rowe ● 45d

Presumably these rogue cars are being driven remotely by Chinese hackers!  Having suggested this as a satirical observation, it seems to have actually happened:https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/20/tesla-model-s-chinese-hack-remote-control-brakeshttps://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/03/chinese-hackers-tricked-teslas-autopilot-into-switching-lanes.html..and elsewhere!

Peter Evans ● 46d

I've noticed that some Tesla's seem to have a nasty habit of bursting into flames for no apparent reason. I wouldn't drive one or be a passenger in one if you paid me. There are instances of them being in self-drive mode, and crashing into the vehicle directly in front of them before the driver had time to react and take evasive/corrective action. There are serious problems that need addressing and ironing out before potential buyers feel 100% happy with what they are purchasing. I prefer the old fashioned method where the driver is in control, via the steering wheel, gearbox, foot pedals, and hand brake, and not dependent on the whims of a bunch of electronics. If these vehicles were 'foolproof' then the DVLA might well allow you to take your test in one, but unless certain criteria are met, then you can't. There was a video taken from a CCTV camera, (not sure what country), that showed a driver park his Tesla and pop into a shop for a few minutes. During that time, the car simply drove off and crashed a bit further up the road, fortunately with no injuries to anyone.       

Brian Coyle ● 46d

As far as I am aware Tesla doesn't export its Chinese made cars to more developed markets as it wants to maintain its position as a premium brand.  Don't know what the complaint the EU has about Tesla but maybe the company is getting effective subsidy from the Chinese in return for sharing IP. As for Musk's 'in' with the Chinese, he might find it dangerous trying to play both sides and there is a large part of Trump's support who wants to see big blanket tariffs which would include China. The ingredients for a huge falling out between the two are all there.

Andrew OSullivan ● 46d

I read that 'more than half of all Tesla cars are produced in Shanghai, China, and about a third of those are exported.' Some of them must come to Europe as I also see that '..Tesla will face a 9% levy on its Chinese-made cars exported to the EU, the European Commission has said, as it issued an update on its sweeping investigation into Beijing’s “unfair” subsidies of electric vehicles...' suggesting that Tesla was in some way unfairly benefitting from manufacturing in China.  His Chinese Tesla factory might also mean that Musk has some influence in Chinese politics, which his new friend Mr Trump might appreciate.

Peter Evans ● 46d

I'm not sure how unit production breaks down between Tesla's Chinese production facility and its US ones. The output of the former is mainly made from Chinese parts but the American ones only use about 10-20% including the battery. The Chinese made cars are not exported to the US or mainstream European markets. Theoretically the company could supply the UK from its Chinese factories but that would undermine its brand premium.

Andrew OSullivan ● 46d

But aren’t most Tesla’s actually manufactured in China?

Peter Evans ● 46d

"...by 2030...Tesla stock will collapse."Old Muskrat will probably have moved to Mars by then, hopefully taking Dumbass Donald with him.

Richard Greenhough ● 46d

It is interesting to see the row with Musk escalating and no mention of the issue of tariffs on cars. Do people really think he has suddenly decided that Stephen Yaxley-Lennon is a great guy? If the UK manages to transition new ownership to 100% EVs by 2030 based on allowing in cheap Chinese imports, that will provide a model that is likely to be copied across the world and Tesla stock will collapse.

Andrew OSullivan ● 46d

UK car production peaked in the late nineties although very nearly got back to those levels in 2016 so your point remains valid. If you combine the friction introduced to trade by Brexit with the withdrawal from the European integrated energy market, costs in the UK make any sort of complex manufacturing unviable and we are rapidly deindustrialising. The previous government sought to slow this process by massive subsidies to attract investment but that is unsustainable.I'm not sure it was the plan for us to become a back door for the Chinese car industry but that looks like the only option we have at the moment. Its heartbreaking to think of all the good jobs that will be lost and the impact this will have on families.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 53d

UK passenger car annual output actually peaked in 2016 at 1.7million units and has more than halved since. The 'just in time' system used by manufacturers doesn't function properly outside the Single Market. This is less of an issue for electric cars because there are fewer parts so the strategy may be try to rebuild by OEM assembly plants but these jobs will be less skilled and there will obviously be less related employment in parts manufacture.

Andrew OSullivan ● 60d

"I didn't mean to be flippant about Brexit but Patrick Minford's warning that the domestic car industry would disappear may be partially about to come true." Much of it was closed down during the years we were members of the EU.

Richard Greenhough ● 60d

Looks like it will be a sales but no after sales operation to supplement a digital effort so as has been pointed out 'a glorified billboard' but, as I say, I would be surprise if the Chinese hadn't recognised the symbolic importance of the site. I didn't mean to be flippant about Brexit but Patrick Minford's warning that the domestic car industry would disappear may be partially about to come true. Perhaps the government is thinking a part replacement can be made by assembling OEM Chinese cars in plants in this country. The news today about Honda and Nissan points to manufacturers realising things are going to get very messy for them and this may actually be an example of the UK being ahead of the curve.

Andrew OSullivan ● 60d

Absolutely correct, I looked on it as a glorified billboard with a few cars in it. There is zero chance that I will buy an Omoda as we approach 2025 it is one of the most fuel inefficient internal combustion engine vehicles on the road with high pollution and low MPG. The electric version, heavily subsidized by the Chinese government, does not appeal either

N V Brooks ● 60d

If the benefit of Brexit is Chinese manufacturers using your own country as a base to destroy your indigenous manufacturers  then i suppose it's a success.The reality is the entire Chinese car industry is state sponsored and subsidised to establish it as a global player at everyone else's expense.The Chiswick roundabout site wont make money but that's not its purpose as it's part of a long term plan to create awareness generate market share.

Craig David Mcdowell ● 60d

It may be a mistake to think of the building as a "prime commercial location".It will have zero footfall from passers by so the only people visiting will be those who really want to, or need to.If you look at other Tesla locations in the UK, a large proportion are in retail centres (Westfield, Lakeside, etc) and there is a Tesla service centre off the A40 in Park Royal so possibly no need for 2 in close proximity.

Michael Robinson ● 60d

And don’t forget that Vice President Trump has full confidence in President Musk. Time will tell if Musk continues to have confidence in Vice President Trump.

Steve Taylor ● 60d

Musk has totally lost interest in the UK. He made that clear two years ago. Now he is throwing some pocket change at Farage so he may review his strategy in the future. The man is no fool. He is a genius.

Steve Taylor ● 60d

What I didn't realise until I read the article that the UK was one of the few economies in the world that allowed Chinese cars in tariff-free. It never made that much sense that Musk was going in so hard on Twitter on the UK and its government over free speech issues. It seems far more likely that he wants to pressure it to change the policy as nothing is a greater threat to Tesla that affordable electric vehicles. The taking over of the former Tesla garage is highly symbolic in this regard and probably not something that the Chinese will have failed to pick up on.  Much as I hate all that Brexit has done to this country, here at last is a clear benefit — it has allowed us to follow a policy that has seriously hacked off Elon Musk.

Andrew OSullivan ● 60d

Musk is the richest man in the world. I doubt the rent at the Hogarth Rndbt was too taxing

Paul Campbell ● 61d