Forum Topic

Council to stop replacing felled trees

I appreciate in these difficult times for the economy and with other serious demands on their resources, councils will have to make some tough decisions. However, ending the policy of replacing trees is a very dangerous road to go down as it could create a profound change in our local environment that would take generations to fix.

Diane Brown ● 67d61 Comments

Sorry street trees.

Janice Evans ● 20d

No good as street streets as roots can be invasive.

Janice Evans ● 20d

Gleditsia trees are tolerant of drought.

Janice Evans ● 20d

And they don't need a lot of aftercare part from watering during dry spells.

Janice Evans ● 20d

That's good to hear. Silver birches are a much more attractive variety.

Diane Brown ● 20d

In the last weeks the council have planted many trees in Grove Park. In my road they have planted three silver birches, estimated to grow to approximately 6 to 8 metres, a great improvement on the alders which were planted in the 1970’s.

Susan Jennifer Thackray ● 24d

https://www.latymer-upper.org/quintin-hogg-memorial-ground-update/Leylandii apparently - usually planted in a hurry as a fast growing wind break and then regretted later with the realisation that a better choice could have been made and so many years of growth of a better choice have been lost.Some Councils are very amenable when protected trees are discussed and others a lot less so.  So they do need to be watched - as do businesses!

Philippa Bond ● 24d

The Quentin Hogg Memorial Sports Ground for one. Not directly the council but they are signing off on this sort of thing on a regular basis.

Diane Brown ● 37d

"If the council has kept historical records, then the numbers of trees needing replacement each year should be quite predictable as there won't be massive swings from year to year."If these numbers are available then perhaps it would be best if they were put in the public domain and that would give people some reassurance. However, while I know little about arboriculture, I'd be concerned that assuming that the number of trees that need replacing will follow historical norms would be optimistic in an era of rapidly changing weather patterns.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 38d

Where are they doing this? Smells like BS. 

John Hall ● 40d

And by the same stroke TFL has sent out one of its surveys about improving the natural environment in London.  When councils are systematically cementing over parks and green spaces with tarmac and floodlighting, this survey is yet another phoney attempt by the mayor to be seen to be doing good.

Jacqueline Cloake ● 40d

"The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life" - Rabindranath Tagore.That's just one well known quote regarding the planting of trees.  He is reported as having been a great orator as well.

Philippa Bond ● 41d

Rabindranath Tagore won the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1913.  His writings are often quoted.

Philippa Bond ● 41d

I suspect a lot of these shops are open all hours unlike shops in the past.  They also pay an awful lot in Business Rates.  In the past shopkeepers would have lived over the shop more often and their wives would have helped and not been forced to work elsewhere to pay the bills.

Philippa Bond ● 42d

"Now is a good time, relatively speaking to fell trees, because of the reduced wildlife living in them and the lack of leaves plus it allows for spring planting"I'm not sure you'd be wanting to plant trees in Spring unless desperate.They say one of the kindest things you can do for future generations is to plant trees.

James Petri ● 43d

I am a bit concerned that presumably the Parks dept are taking over from Hounslow Highways,and from what I have picked up I am not sure that they have the same expertise. Also HH buy in trees every year and presumably get discounts for scale orders which could now be lost. And also HH are very careful about the trees that they use and very knowledgable about them. It also seems rather daft to divide the roles. But as a mere resident maybe I am deluded

Iris Hill ● 43d

If the council has kept historical records, then the numbers of trees needing replacement each year should be quite predictable as there won't be massive swings from year to year.

Michael Robinson ● 43d

When I said cost I meant labour and materials but you are quite right to make the distinction with what is actually billed and by whom.A saving only could be realised if there was enough slack in the in-house capability to take on the extra work. If not more staff would need to be taken on on a permanent basis which would end up being more expensive. The number of trees that need replacing is unpredictable so to say this change will save money is speculative. To guarantee a saving there would have to be an acceptance that there was a maximum number of trees that could be replaced each year.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 43d

"These days you will never see a corner shop owner clearing litter in front of their shops even when the litter bins are overflowing. It a different culture and some business owners have no pride or interest in the environment or the local communities. Likewise the inbred  culture of Local Authorities turns a blind eye to third world behaviour" Cracking bit of dog-whistle racism there, chapeau.

John Hall ● 44d

My fault, I should of course have discussed further with them their particular heritage.  However the accents especially the Australian ones outside the pub that employs Australians extensively was the give away for one and other one was most definitely someone who took a pride in what she was doing to the front of the house and pleased to be acknowledged. You guys who like to only drive from place to place can be complete miseries and life is much better if you are able to walk along the street and chat or just pass the time of day with neighbours!

Philippa Bond ● 44d

"Whatever badge it is done under, the cost will be the same."That isn't correct.  If the work is done under the Private Finance Initiative (PFI) contract with Hounslow Highways, there will be a rate card for the work, HH will invoice the council for this and Hounslow will pay HH.If the work is done internally by council staff, then there is a saving as they aren't paying an external contractor.Yes, the council could also save money by downsizing and getting rid of their own staff who do this and other work but understandably the first place to look is money going out to pay external contractors.

Michael Robinson ● 44d

The Grove Park Group contacted local councillors about this matter when it was first reported and received a reply from Labour councillor Amy Croft which said there was actually no change in policy because all that was happening was that the replacement of trees was being taken in-house having previously been done by Hounslow Highways, the council's wholly owned contractor. This seems like a bit of an obfuscation as if felled trees are still going to be replaced, then how is £20,000 going to be saved? Whatever badge it is done under, the cost will be the same. The only way we are likely to get to the bottom of this is to track what actually happens when a tree is cut down. Now is a good time, relatively speaking to fell trees, because of the reduced wildlife living in them and the lack of leaves plus it allows for spring planting although if the policy change applies to the next financial year, the council may want to postpone chopping trees down to realise whatever saving they have identified in the policy change.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 44d

wet leaves can interfere with 5G apparently which will not please Hounslow council at all...

Anna Kirkpatrick ● 45d

“ The only people I have seen sweeeping in front of their shops or homes (except one) have not been British!”How would you know? Were they holding up their passports as they swept the pavements?

Courtney Gilbert ● 45d

I'm old enough to remember the seventies and eighties and the idea that this was some sort of bucolic idyll in which all shopkeepers kept the front of the properties tidy is incorrect. If anything the squalor and mess was far worst than it was now. I think some people may be getting confused by watching repeats of Open All Hours.The fact is that in all societies at all times there are people who take pride in the area in which they live and those that don't. With regard to trees, there would be a substantial number of people willing to take on the care of young trees in their area on a voluntary basis. That the council seems unwilling to mobilise free support and only seeks to save what is a very small amount of money in the broader context points to a lack of breadth of vision.

Diane Brown ● 45d

I really hope that you did not base that comment upon the colour of their skin. Did you ask if they were UK passport holders?

N V Brooks ● 47d

Running to a programme of cleaning is a complete waste of time energy, effort and resource when trees and weather don't run to the same programme.  Perhaps there are other streets which need cleaning more often because they have larger drifts of leaves.

Philippa Bond ● 47d

''Do you sit at the window all of the time all of the day every day watching for Council operatives''? That's a stupid reply even by your low standards. I can tell by the blocked kerbs and drains if the clowns at Ealing council have been round and they haven't. Also, a simple conversation with one of my councillors can tell me when the next '' deep clean'' is due. Ours was on August 7th and, surprisingly, they didn't turn up then and haven't been round since!

peter king ● 47d

The only people I have seen sweeeping in front of their shops or homes (except one) have not been British!

Philippa Bond ● 47d

That’s a fair point business pays a fortunate in council tax but get zero service, not even rubbish collection so the councils are wasting a fortune on what I have no clue.

Jayne Thorburn ● 47d

Many shopkeepers are so hacked off being fleeced by landlords and local authorities that they care not one jot to spend a penny more doing what they have already paid for.

N V Brooks ● 47d

“ Such a clean country full of decent people proud to look after public property.”Most European countries are clean.  The UK used to be like that. You saw greengrocers and shopkeepers sweeping the pavements in front of their shops. These days you will never see a corner shop owner clearing litter in front of their shops even when the litter bins are overflowing. It a different culture and some business owners have no pride or interest in the environment or the local communities. Likewise the inbred  culture of Local Authorities turns a blind eye to third world behaviour

Courtney Gilbert ● 47d

German council taxes are thousands of pounds lower though. We have friends in Chemnitz Harthau and their quarterly tax liability on a property only marginally smaller than my own house is c.€300 less than one third of that levied on my own home with other taxes broadly similar and state pensions significantly higher.

N V Brooks ● 47d

(after JFK) Ask not what the Council can do for you but what you can do for the Council. In Germany home owners are responsible for sweeping right up to the kerb outside their houses. Such a clean country full of decent people proud to look after public property. Saves a huge amount of Council funds. So why not here?

James Petri ● 47d

It is slightly depressing to see the emergence of the view in this thread that government should do everything for us. I have no problem watering trees in my road if needed as I benefit from it. However there are lots of people in our community who work unpaid in our community who supplement the efforts of the state in terms of social care, education, working with the homeless. Local government would collapse without this sort of contribution so it is fortunate that not everybody things the taxpayer should be responsible for everything.

Anita Blake ● 47d

We always used to keep the outside areas clear years ago so I just have continued to do that, it was probably because my mother was unable to do it so we did lots around the home.

Janice Evans ● 47d

We don't all need all of the services all of the time for all of our lives. If we expected to use all of the services all of the time for all of our lives then we definitely wouldn't be able to pay for them all.Do you sit at the window all of the time all of the day every day watching for Council operatives?

Philippa Bond ● 48d

You can come round to my street if you have some spare time. I'm sure Ealing council wouldn't mind you giving the leaves a sweep up as we haven't seen them for over a year now. All well and good asking for more local support but we are paying for services they don't provide.

peter king ● 49d

We happily watered a sapling planted by our house and it’s absolutely gorgeous now. We should take more civic pride and not expect the council to do everything but enable us to support them particularly when it comes to the environment. We also sweep leaves on the pavement outside our home again civic pride. If we all did a small bit the differences would be enormous.

Jayne Thorburn ● 49d

The public including me have actually asked the Council how they can help to keep the young saplings alive.  We have told Ealing and Hounslow Council about other Councils who have members of the public acting as tree wardens.  Some of us are able to communicate with people without being rude and insulting to alert them to any trees in trouble and which need attention.  We've actually tried and succeeded!

Philippa Bond ● 49d

Ealing council have asked the public to water the trees, too much to ask them to actually do something for their council tax payers!

peter king ● 50d

Ealing's new saplings have info tags from:https://www.treesforcities.org/our-work/urban-trees

Philippa Bond ● 50d

New street trees in Ealing have information tags on them with a QR code asking residents to help take responsibility for them and water them.I'm not sure that replacements in the same place are always the right answer when they are replacing a diseased tree.  There are also streets where the pavement and kerbing is still in a bad state of repair after the removal of the original (much larger of course) tree.

Philippa Bond ● 51d

Pleased to say that Ealing have not planted any plane trees to replace knackered ones near where I live. Replacements seem to be smaller and, judging by those that have matured, a welcome addition to the roads.

peter king ● 52d

This is not true. While smaller species are now selected for side roads, at least 6 plane trees were planted last year along Chiswick High Road.  https://chiswickcalendar.co.uk/abundance-london-organises-tree-planting-in-chiswick-high-rd/While Hounslow Council (parks, council estates, etc) may have halted new tree planting, Hounslow Highways (streets) is apparently continuing.

Karen Liebreich ● 52d

For Information: Hounslow Council (Hounslow Highways) does not plant London Plane trees and has not done so for many years. Residents can pay for an "appropriate" street tree to be planted and replaced (if it dies within two years). Residents did this after many trees were lost in the Great Storm of 1987. Approx one third of Hounslow's street trees are located in the three Chiswick Wards.

Sam Hearn ● 52d

Or Gleditsia Sunburst.

Janice Evans ● 56d

I do wish the Council would replace trees, maybe not with the standard London Plane but with more interesting British natives such as Rowan or if you want something a bit smaller Blackthorn - I am sure other posters will have suggestions for other suitable trees

Justin Stephenson ● 56d

And indeed I see that this was a story on this site a few days back.https://www.chiswickw4.com/default.asp?section=community&link=https://neighbournet.com/server/common/hounscoun739.htm

Bruce Hammal ● 59d

Here's the link to the savings proposal approved by Hounslow's cabinet on 17th December that includes not replacing felled trees to save £20,000: https://democraticservices.hounslow.gov.uk/documents/s197643/Appendix%20C%20-%20Savings%20Proposals%202025-26%20-%20REVISED%2010.12.24.pdfThis is the background reasoning: https://democraticservices.hounslow.gov.uk/documents/s197482/One%20Hounslow%20Financial%20Strategy%20Update%20-%20Report%20with%20Appendix%20A%20and%20B.pdf

Joanna Biddolph ● 59d

If you go round St Peter’s square Hammersmith contractors seem to have a much been material and system around the tree base. Ealing contractors are not doing such a good job, it’s time the councils actually spent our money wisely, know what they are doing and check work done by contractors, there should be a clause so if a contractor does a shoddy job they have to redo the work at their expense or lose the contract.

Jayne Thorburn ● 59d

Problem we had was, when Ealing chopped down a large tree outside our house, they planted a new one in the same place, which couldn’t compete with the old buried root system and gave up after a year, despite volunteer watering. It's unfortunate that nearly every remaining mature tree round here has so distorted the pavement and pushed up the kerb that they now pose quite a danger to pedestrians.

Peter Evans ● 59d

Ealing council replaced a tree outside our property and my husband looked after it now we have a rather stunning maple growing. We should have civic pride and the council (stapped for cash] should give the neighbours permission to plant a tree providing a list of acceptable trees. If neighbours clubbed together it wouldn’t be that much and we all get to enjoy the trees.

Jayne Thorburn ● 59d

I can't comment on the veracity of this as council policy, but at a local level a medium sized tree in my street was removed a few weeks ago. It was  mis-shapen but very much alive. I presumed a replacement would be forthcoming since the workers left the tree-pit. I was wrong as not long after another Hounslow team turned up and paved over the area in what appears to be a permanent job. Street trees can be a mixed blessing and certainly the variety needs to be carefully considered. There is a British Standards document dealing with this. It jncludes the line: "a tree planted where it is not wanted is unlikely to thrive". Generally speaking though, one out one in seems to be a desirable aim.

Bruce Hammal ● 59d

An unthinking like for like replacement of trees in residential areas is going to cause problems but the arcade of trees along Chiswick High Road should be managed and protected to ensure it is still there in a decade. It is effectively a heritage asset so perhaps the council could seek other sources of funding to maintain it. If they don't gaps will quickly start to appear that may never be replaced.

Andrew OSullivan ● 60d

Is this actually true?

Paul Campbell ● 61d

The obvious logic of them cutting down and not replacing old and diseased trees will be that we'll eventually have no trees!Time for a rethink.Having said that, when all our Chiswick trees were planted way back when, they were a bit thoughtless as so many of them are so large they block the light into people's homes and seriously obscure and damage the pavement. This suggests a rolling programme of replacing even healthy trees, but I can't see that happening with the present financial restrictions and the general outrage if any tree is cut down.

Peter Evans ● 63d

Wandsworth has a volunteer tree warden scheme which coordinates these efforts including nurturing young trees.https://wandsworthtreewardens.org/

Felicity Caborn ● 63d

Sadly, I know that it is more to do with the number of new trees that don’t survive the first year.The Council need to take a different approach.  When a tree pit needs a new tree, the neighbours should be notified (just a postcard through the door) asking people to pour a bucket of water over the roots over the summer months. It would also be nice if the new tree was labelled so we know what to expect. Last year they put in 2 London Plain trees.  They grow fast and tall but are problematic because our pavements are fairly narrow and the front gardens not wide so in 10 years time they will be taking light from the windows, the leaves which are very slow to break down will  be blocking roof gutters and the roots will be encroaching on front gardens lifting paths and so on.  Elliot Road and Abinger Road know to their cost.  They are wonderful on Chiswick back Common.  The right Hornbeam, white beam, red variety of horse chestnuts all do well amongst others. Most of my neighbours love the trees and are prepared to help look after them, some don’t and constantly bug the tree department but the right tree is almost always accepted.

Elizabeth Ross ● 66d

“ as it could create a profound change in our local environment that would take generations to fix.”Historically it’s what Labour Councils are very good at. Ruining and destroying.

Steve Taylor ● 67d

agree 100%

Davey Harris ● 67d