Forum Topic

Thank goodness for immigrants

Today I had cataract surgery at the Western Eye Hospital. All the staff I saw, nurses and Doctors, were immigrants, either Africans, Arabs or Chinese. We owe a lot to these wonderful people.

Robert Fish ● 83d184 Comments

Thats becasue 25% YEAR ON YEAR LEAVE.Its not the numbers but the job itself and the basic healthy salary a care worker earns. Around £21,325 per year You want to be a care worker running around over 7 days for 21.5k

Julian Pavey ● 49d

We are still over populated regardless of ancestry, why are people ignoring the fact that we cannot provide services fast enough.

Janice Evans ● 49d

Keith:  You are only looking at one family name!  We each have two parents, four grandparents, eight great-grandparents etc in an ordinary family arrangement.  Our patronymic naming system is not a worldwide accepted system and in other parts of the world the naming system acknowledges greater descent (other exceptions accepted).  Names have also often been anglicized or changed to disguise descent.  DNA can now also show greater variations than families themselves know.

Philippa Bond ● 49d

Another sobering thought, we need 130000 care workers.

Nicholas Beard ● 50d

People with my family name have been in England since the 9th century.Am I an immigrant?

Keith Iddon ● 50d

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2025/jan/01/scandinavians-came-to-britain-long-before-vikings-and-anglo-saxons-finds-studyhttps://www.spelthorne.gov.uk/article/19678/A-timeline-of-black-history-in-Britain

Philippa Bond ● 50d

The previous government did not process migrants or did not make enough effort to process migrants.  (Difficult when you decide to cut the numbers of employees working in departments in a crazy so-called cost-cutting agenda.)  Perhaps this was to create more public upset? There has been more work done to make agreements with other countries (many of which relations had become more distanced and frosty because of Brexit).https://www.gov.uk/government/news/huge-increase-in-migration-returns-and-illegal-working-arrestsI don't believe your statements are true about the current government - why exactly are you so negative about progress. There was after all little progress before the change in government.

Philippa Bond ● 54d

The UK is made up of immigrants and that doesn't necessarily mean new immigrants.  People have always moved around the world.  More people should look into their family trees and where their relations were born (although that isn't always correct)!  Also look at the number of children our Victorian ancestors had.  Many died young and so were not mentioned in later years.Interestingly some of the most outspoken critics of immigration are those whose families or at least one member of their family have moved here from another country.  It is worth taking a longer and better look at them!

Philippa Bond ● 54d

I bet a lot of the patients were immigrants too.

V Killick ● 54d

Yvette Cooper has always blown hot air and always will. She is a con artist supreme. Never done anything for the good of the country. Her constituents must be extremely thick.

Steve Taylor ● 54d

Sara and Philippa:At what stage do you cry HALT!When Dental, GP, Opticians, Hospital waiting times reach abnormal proportions?When immigrants are granted housing before British born or indigenous peoples?Before civil war breaks out?Rest assured, Never here Keir and Yvonne Cooper are not going to Smash any Gangs in their term of office.

Denis I. Fox ● 55d

We know that the Australian system was heavily criticised by the Australian population, and American personnel had to be recruited to run it.

Philippa Bond ● 55d

You think?  Isn't it the other way around?  There are British people here who refuse to integrate with newcomers -just as there have always been.  In the country you can find British people who have moved to a village and have lived there for over 50 years but who are not considered to be 'local' and will probably never be...  It is after all - the British - who are so very famous for going abroad and just raising their voices and speaking louder rather than learning to speak a foreign language! 

Philippa Bond ● 55d

If they claim asylum (and about 90% do) then they are not illegal, but asylum-seekers.Rather than trying to just “stop the boats”, it would be more sensible to introduce safe and legal routes - which exist for Ukrainians - who you never see on little boats - and control the access - thus diminishing the role and power of the smugglers.Trying to control supply which is impossible when there is huge demand is futile as any economist will tell you (and the Home Office)

Sara Nathan ● 55d

So you now support the farmers ?

Janice Evans ● 55d

We have the most beautiful countryside, my cousin grew up in Australia from the age of 5, yet he thinks we have amazing countryside here.

Janice Evans ● 55d

“ there are vast areas of open green spaces which could easily have new towns built on them”Yep. Let’s just build concrete jungles to cater for illegal immigrants. It’s in Labour’s manifesto isn’t it. Kahn already has the ghettos flourishing in London and with Labour’s announcement that farmers will have to pay inheritance tax, many, many farms will be vacated so the government can seize the land and build concrete jungles everywhere. It’ll be great - just like the USSR was.

Steve Taylor ● 55d

Totally agree with Emma Elizabeth.

Steve Taylor ● 55d

Sara’s response is admirable in some ways but massively naive. I can only assume Sara was not around in the 80s when kids could play outside without fear, the elderly could get an appointment at the GP, and everyone spoke English. As for our green countryside, let’s not destroy this just to house migrants (legal and illegal). We must keep our green and pleasant land!

Emma Elizabeth ● 55d

“Small boat crossings have continued in the English Channel on Saturday despite the morning’s foggy conditions.Pictures showed the Dungeness lifeboat bringing a number of people, thought to have been picked up from a small boat in the Channel, into the port at Dover.The latest arrivals follow crossings made on Christmas Day, Boxing Day and December 27 – the first time since 2018 small boats have made the journey on all of those dates.The 407 arrivals on December 26 meant more than 150,000 people had made the crossing from France since records began on January 1 2018, prompting a political blame game over responsibility for the numbers.A Home Office source sought to blame the previous government, saying they had left “an appalling legacy of broken border security”, while Conservative shadow home secretary Chris Philp blamed Labour’s decision to scrap the Tories’ Rwanda scheme.After Saturday’s update to the figures, Mr Philp said the numbers represented “Labour’s appalling failure” and were “an insult to the British people”.He said: “In 2023, Conservatives cut the numbers crossing the channel by a third. But now, it’s all moving the other way.“These rising numbers are the predictable outcome of Starmer scrapping many Conservative measures to tackle this issue, like scrapping the Rwanda deterrent before it even started. We know from the experience in Australia that a deterrent would have stopped the boats if it had been allowed to start as planned in late July.“The British people deserve better than a Government that can’t, or won’t, deal with illegal channel crossings.””

Steve Taylor ● 55d

“ should go to build the necessary infrastructures.  For some reason in this country, it doesn't seem to.”Isn’t that because the people aren’t wanted or needed so the additional infrastructures aren’t necessary because every government PROMISES to STOP the illegal immigration and radically reduce legal immigration to fall in line with the natural migration of people leaving the UK.  Illegal immigration isn’t natural - it’s a crime and the Authorities or supposed to fight crime not build infrastructures to support it. That would just be ridiculous!

Steve Taylor ● 55d

“We could focus more on integration”. The UK is one of the most generous countries when it comes to promoting integration but the immigrants don’t want to be integrated. They prefer to make their own communities and stick to them. You see it all over the country. Many refuse to even learn English. You now have Asian areas, Somalian areas, Middle Eastern areas and Eastern European areas, to name a few. They won’t integrate.

Steve Taylor ● 55d

“ we should be pleased that energetic young people still want to come here.”Why should we be pleased that these energetic people want to come here to join the black economy and criminal gangs.

Steve Taylor ● 55d

Sara, you are assuming that everyone coming here illegally is young,fit and healthy and can support themselves.If they want to come here to do the jobs that we need them for,although we  many natives on the brew who could be working,let them come here legally.No one has a problem with that,or at least I don't.

Keith Iddon ● 55d

Green spaces don't really come into it if we are unable to provide the services first.

Janice Evans ● 55d

With a falling birth-rate and increasingly elderly population, maybe we should be pleased that energetic young people still want to come here.We could focus more on integration and training than we do on repulsion and containment. We could allow asylum-seekers to work and support themselves.For some reason, we choose not to. It’s very short-sighted.

Sara Nathan ● 55d

There are vast areas of every country that have not been built on.

Keith Iddon ● 55d

If you drive up the motorway or take a train or fly over Britain, there are vast areas of open green spaces which could easily have new towns built on them. And by whatever means our population increases - by natural births or immigration - most of those people will work and pay taxes which should go to build the necessary infrastructures.  For some reason in this country, it doesn't seem to.

Peter Evans ● 55d

We are overpopulated re landspace compared with other countries.

Janice Evans ● 55d

Yes, legal immigrants who meet skills criteria do add value. However, our population has ballooned by over 20 million within decades, meaning all public services are stretched so thin that we have to recruit from abroad … to cater for the millions who have come here from overseas!

Emma Elizabeth ● 56d

Sadly immigration is pushing Europe and the UK far right. Population size has to be supported with the infrastructure which means people need to work and pay taxes to fund it. So government has to control the size of the population and not just tax people more and more the bubble will bust. Given the size of the state all civil servants local and centre need pension reform to fall in line with private sector. Private sector can keep funding over inflated pensions.

Jayne Thorburn ● 56d

And have been for years.

Brian Coyle ● 58d

"Thank goodness for immigrants". Enough said.

Brian Coyle ● 58d

Cannot dispute that, forgot the Hotels were still in use for them.

Janice Evans ● 58d

Look it up, Janice. Start with Best Western Hotels. "Some 250 asylum seekers are said to be housed at the Best Western hotel in Kegworth, Leicestershire". This hotel group is making millions from housing immigrants. Try booking a 2 week holiday at some of their hotels. Try Kegworth, Leicestershire for starters, and see what dates they have available.

Brian Coyle ● 58d

Is that a fact Brian, I'm not sure they do weren't many homeless here housed during Covid.

Janice Evans ● 59d

Why do immigrants take precedence over our own homeless people?

Brian Coyle ● 59d

“ imagine the howls of outrage from people like you, if what they were doing became known.”It has become known, hence the howls of outrage and why Rwanda was on the cards to reduce waiting lists. Why do you think the UKs acceptance rate percentage was higher than any EU country. The Home Office was under immense pressure to reduce the numbers in hotels awaiting decisions.

Steve Taylor ● 60d

It was literally all that the last populist government cared about. The new government is more focused on doing things than keeping the readers of the right wing process content in their ignorance.

Paul Campbell ● 60d

I don't want to get involved in your toing and froing,but in my experience howls of outrage from the public rarely have any affect on government policy, in my opiion.

Keith Iddon ● 60d

I'm grateful you only called me an idiot. You obviously feel you have overdone the use of moron! Do try to be a bit more civil when putting forward an argument - people might then listen to you a little more.I recognise the pressure on the Home Office.  However, it doesn't follow that they were granting asylum willy-nilly. I think it most unlikely  - imagine the howls of outrage from people like you, if what they were doing became known.

Robert Fish ● 60d

Yes, the government of the day's "facts". Hansard doesn't censor misleading information. It's a record of what was said or laid before the House - not a guarantee of veracity.

Robert Fish ● 60d

“ In 2022 76% of initial decisions resulted in a grant of asylum, and in 2023 67% of applications were granted.”Don’t be such an idiot. You know very well the pressure the Home Office was under to get the waiting lists down. Hence they granted asylum willy nilly. Rwanda was supposed to stop that and review applications carefully and responsibly.

Steve Taylor ● 60d

Wrong again Fish. It’s listed in Hansard as a Fact Sheet

Steve Taylor ● 60d

This is not a "fact" sheet. It is a list of arguments (some distinctly specious) contained in a Government policy paper justifying the Conservative Illegal Immigration Bill. The idea that most people risking boat crossings are economic migrants rather than genuine asylum seekers is belied by the statistics of asylum case determinations. In 2022 76% of initial decisions resulted in a grant of asylum, and in 2023 67% of applications were granted.

Robert Fish ● 60d

Fact sheet from Hansard “ • These journeys are also unnecessary, as those making these crossings are coming from safe countries, such as France, where they could have claimed asylum.* More recently, we have seen large numbers of people making these dangerous journeys who are from well-established safe countries, where it is clear they are not at risk of persecution. * The people who make these journeys are manipulated by people smugglers who charge them thousands of pounds, before using this money to fund other serious crime.* It’s not fair that those coming to the UK with the intention of becoming economic migrants are able to exploit our asylum system, which should be prioritising those whose lives are genuinely at risk. * It’s also not fair on the British taxpayer. The current broken asylum system currently costs the UK some £3 billion a year and rising, including nearly £6 million a day on hotel accommodation.* We cannot continue, year on year, with this inexorable rise in the number of illegal arrivals adding unacceptable pressures on our health, housing, educational and welfare services.”

Steve Taylor ● 60d

Do tell .....

N V Brooks ● 61d

Why no interest in the research published this week that showed immigrants are much bigger contributors to the economy than so-called natives?

Paul Campbell ● 61d

That post doesn’t make sense. Why would anyone apply illegally?Refugees quite often try to make for countries where they have family - wouldn’t anyone?But people with refugee status can only apply for “family reunification” with spouses and their own children under 18. So no children over 18, no parents or siblings (however old or young) Very occasionally an exception is made if the siblings have no one else in the world. But it’s truly unusual. For other immigrants, there are very strict financial requirements to bring in family members including spouses and children. And once refugees get citizenship (usually six years later) those financial requirements apply to them too.

Sara Nathan ● 73d

Regarding anything 😂😂😂 pretty shocking for security, public services, education and anything else one cares to mention

Jayne Thorburn ● 73d

Regarding spaces in schools.

Janice Evans ● 73d

It seems there is no reliable information at all anymore, that way anyone can claim whatever they want.

Janice Evans ● 73d

There isn’t reliable information. They are still ‘adjusting’ last years figures. Numbers for 2024 will only be available in September 2025. The previous Head of Border security was scathing of the system. The current estimate of net migration of just under 1 million in a 12 month period was a total shock to everyone and no doubt caused many, many people to sway towards the Reform Party.

Steve Taylor ● 73d

So now we are playing with words, reliable doesn’t mean complete so at long last we agree we don’t know who is in the country so the data is unreliable. We also don’t know the number of children being home schools or absent from school. People coming in via trucks, boat or any other means are illegal and many lie about asylum, many discard their passports or have fake ones so we don’t know who they are. Putting people up in hotels is expensive and we must have more appropriate and much cheaper method before assessing their claim and deporting people more quickly.

Jayne Thorburn ● 74d

There is reliable data on immigration.  You just can't be bothered to look for it. Reliable does not mean complete.

Stewart Jones ● 74d

Interesting that Yvette Cooper jumped on the bandwagon and followed Germany, Austria, Greece, Sweden, France and some other EU countries by halting Asylum Applications from Syrians because Syria is no longer deemed to be unsafe. Austria has already indicated it will begin a careful and considered deportation process to get Syrian refugees home immediately. Embarrassing for Deer Stammer though because he didn’t know Cooper had followed the crowd and was adamant that the UK had no plans to do so.

Steve Taylor ● 74d

“ There is very reliable  data on immigration.”What rubbish. The Home Office admitted that it doesn’t have accurate data and tens of thousands of illegal immigrants have disappeared and the Home Office doesn’t know where they are. Also, how do they know how many thousands of illegal immigrants have slipped into the UK in trucks or on boats. Hence the figures are adjusted over and over again and it is worse every time.

Steve Taylor ● 74d

Jayne, your posts are usually coherent, if not factually incorrect and often misguided. I suggest you look at the last one.

Stewart Jones ● 74d

There is very reliable data on school vacancies.There is very reliable  data on immigration.It is right and proper and a legal requirement to ensure that people seeking asylum are housed and fed. Presumably. Jayne, you would prefer men,women, children to be sleeping on the streets? Of course,  immigration should be legal but you persistently lack the ability to understand the difference between illegal immigration and people seeking asylum.Why?

Stewart Jones ● 74d

Illegal immigration and legal will grow hugely under this government. Keir didn’t even mention it in his targets to be judged on yet he won the vote because he was going to break the gangs no chance and he knows it hence why he has dropped any mention of it. He will declare an amnesty and then tell us all illegal immigration, that how labour operates, all lies. Over crowded prisons deport  all illegal immigrates. At least the tories cut a deal with Albania and was deporting them many of which were drug related gangs. Then we have Angela acting like a dictator with planning over local councils so completely ignoring democracy and listens to local people. If the tories tried this there would be riots,

Jayne Thorburn ● 74d

We hardly deport any illegal immigrants. Rwanda was the answer but this government has thrown away hundreds of £millions by cancelling it. Hence they will never win another term in office. Already they are less popular than the Tories or Reform

Steve Taylor ● 74d

I guess the reality is we don’t have any reliable data either for school places or illegal immigration. One thing we do know too many people costing the tax payers in benefits, housing putting people up in hotels is ridiculous & expensive. We do not have the infrastructure or services for millions to come into our country. Immigration has to be legal, people have to have skills, work and contribute in the form of taxes. We don’t deport enough people, if people come to our country, commit crimes which they are found to be guilty then they get deported not put in prisons at tax payers expense. If we are ruthless with less approach those coming will think twice about crime.

Jayne Thorburn ● 74d

And that some never returned to school after Covid.

Janice Evans ● 74d

Well it said on G schools were facing overcrowding.

Janice Evans ● 74d

You’re correct, Philippa. Illegal immigrants are being deported. The UK is the 5th preferred destination of asylum seekers who come to Europe. The notion that the UK is where all asylum seekers seek refuge is simply not true. It’s sad that people do not bother to do any research before deciding to hate people and blame some of the poorest and most vulnerable people for the systemic problems the UK has

Stewart Jones ● 74d

That's simply not true, Janice.  In 2023 there were a million unfilled school places - around 12% under capacity.

Stewart Jones ● 74d

The illegal immigrants aren’t paying into the system. They are in the black economy and crime gangs.

Steve Taylor ● 74d

Don't quite see that, all schools are full, it's if jobs will be there for them, and people already paid in all their working life for their pensions, I don'tagree with idea of pyramid scheme, your pension is based on what you have paid in.

Janice Evans ● 75d

People do get deported. Perhaps the newspaper you read or the TV channel you watch isn't telling you that - or you just don't want to find out and know what you don't want to know so you can rail about it.Who is going to pay tax for our services when we are nearly all taking our pensions?

Philippa Bond ● 75d

“Many come here to commit crimes too if they are found guilty should be automatic deportation. “That’s why the Rwanda scheme was so brilliant. No need to deport if they are sent straight to Rwanda for processing.

Steve Taylor ● 75d

Because your ‘donation’ to the cause enables the illegal immigrants to get it done for free. That’s why they swarm to Benefits Britain. And that’s why the Rwanda plan was such a brilliant one.

Steve Taylor ● 75d

Another myth they have family here if they did they could apply illegally. Many come here to commit crimes too if they are found guilty should be automatic deportation. We need to get tough to stop the view we are a soft touch which of course we are.

Jayne Thorburn ● 75d

As regards bucking the system, why do I have to pay my dentist £60.00 for a check up, and c£140.00 for a filling, when illegal migrants get free access to a dentist and free dental care?

Brian Coyle ● 75d

“ Why do you think they don’t stay in Greece or Spain or Portugal or France”?“Most have friends or family here”.The Mogden Farage plays the right notes in the wrong order

Paul Campbell ● 75d

“Many asylum-seekers have no idea of the restrictions here (and even less of the benefit system) “Nonsense. They are totally sussed. That’s why they come here and don’t claim asylum in any of the many EU countries they traverse to get here. When they finally get to Calais and are interviewed by our media they are brazen about their God Given right to come to the UK to claim asylum and settle and most have friends or family here who  have explained the wonderful benefits and accommodation and opportunities here. Why do you think they don’t stay in Greece or Spain or Portugal or France or any of the countries they have passed through? And why do you think they destroy their ID documents before they arrive here?  It’s to buck the system.

Steve Taylor ● 75d

There’s no evidence it’s a pull factor. Many asylum-seekers have no idea of the restrictions here (and even less of the benefit system) It is odd that people who see refugees as benefits scroungers out to defraud the British tax-payer, often in the next breath say they are coming to steal our jobs. Hard to do both….

Sara Nathan ● 76d

We already have regulations so that child benefit only goes to two children and there is a lot of fuss about that.  There are too many tax loopholes and tax needs to be fairer.  Wouldn't it be interesting if everyone who had the time for 'tax planning' actually had the money to spend on it? A reason why those who can afford it or who have the time to do it themselves should be paying more tax - surely?  What would you call benefits?  Just Child Benefit - or would you call schooling a benefit that can be done without.  If you don't educate your population what jobs will you expect them to take - particularly when there is AI and automation of jobs to take account of.

Philippa Bond ● 76d

Suppose they are realising it's the Governments to blame and not the immigrants.

Janice Evans ● 76d

Does anyone have the answer to illegal immigration, we have said services would collapse for years, it's impossible to keep ahead as no Government ever prepared for the huge influx of people, and the same with EU Governments.

Janice Evans ● 76d

It doesn’t matter. Pensions won’t bring down this government. Illegal immigration will bring it down as it has brought down the USA government and is bringing down EU governments.

Steve Taylor ● 76d

Or did you mean Ponzi scheme.

Janice Evans ● 76d

Apparently pensions were at their worst under Thatchers government.

Janice Evans ● 76d

Pyramid schemes are illegal in UK

Janice Evans ● 76d

No because you lack the critical faculties and it is pointless anybody wasting their time with you.

Paul Campbell ● 76d

Because you are talking old bull Paul.

Janice Evans ● 76d

Whilst the UK State Pension is apparently one of the lowest in the developed world, it probably won’t bring this government down because neither the Tories nor Reform have said they will change it although both would bring back Winter Fuel Allowances. More important is the fact that illegal immigration has brought down the US government and governments across Europe. Starmer’s refusal to deal with illegal immigration will bring him down because everything else he talks about regarding housing, employment, NHS, schooling, Transport, Utilities etc is compounded by immigration and bogus asylum seekers and the drain on public finances through generous benefits. The USA has woken up, Europe has woken up and eventually the UK will wake up.

Steve Taylor ● 76d

I’m sorry but I really have no interest in explaining even the most basic of concepts to you

Paul Campbell ● 77d

Sorry U.K

Janice Evans ● 77d

U?K has lowest pension and highest bills at the moment.

Janice Evans ● 77d

Paul, how on Earth, they don't exactly get enough to live on after 14 years.

Janice Evans ● 77d

Exactly. Conned by the pyramid scheme. Con artists always target the most vulnerable

Paul Campbell ● 77d

And Paul the majority of Northern Pensioners were Labour voters who went over to Conservatives because they had been neglected, history.

Janice Evans ● 77d

Philippa, you say the pensioners haven't paid enough, the fact they paid in should cover a decent pension after all they pay in what they are asked for.

Janice Evans ● 77d

The bribing of pensioners for votes by the Tories was a pyramid scheme.

Paul Campbell ● 77d

Perhaps that is because "pensioners who have paid into the system all their working life" haven't actually paid enough in or for long enough to live in quite the style and at the standard that they would now choose to?  There is nothing quite like a Govt who in its desire to achieve power or to stay in power pussyfoots around and fawns over whoever it thinks its voters are rather than upsetting their equilibrium by asking them to pay a little more or for longer.  In any case as I understand it what you pay in actually goes to pay for those who go before you rather than actually for you yourself.  It took years of faffing around to put the state retirement age up.  Many more people are now living into their 80s, 90s and 100s now.

Philippa Bond ● 77d

“ Apparently those immigrants on benefits get more then pensioners who have paid into the system all their working life. ”Of course they do and that’s why they breed. And that’s why they favour the UK over EU countries. The UK is seen as Nirvana. It won’t be for long though as it slides into third world decay as standards drop. You can see it by the lack of common courtesy and respect to others on the streets, in shops and in public places. And of course the huge drop in driving standards.

Steve Taylor ● 77d

The biggest challenge is people coming and not working apparently from 2M i assume legal immigration only 16% working this is the problem too many people not contributing and using all our services. Plus the obvious no one predicted such a large amount of people and so services were not expanded but if so many aren’t paying that’s a problem. Apparently those immigrants on benefits get more then pensioners who have paid into the system all their working life. Something drastic has to happen otherwise we are in big trouble in 10 years time if this trend continues.

Jayne Thorburn ● 77d

If the NHS had not been run into the ground with short staffing and ridiculously long hours there would be more and happier staff and there would not be so many leaving to work in other countries.We have lost lots of EU NHS staff due to the way they have been treated by Govt regulations, their treatment, and uncertainty in what was happening.  There is a list of overseas countries which we are not supposed to be recruiting from because of their lack or need to keep their own medical staff.  However rather than training people here  there was a lot of overseas recruitment going on.You may moan about the number of overseas people treating you but just wait until you need carers when you will find that so many of them are now doing that work - if you can get any - and they are only being paid the minimum wage partly because some stupid elitist minister thinks that it is unskilled work!If we can't even teach our children to make a cup of tea and a sandwich - which is what I have seen from teenage carers (and the minimum wage for youngsters tends not to be the higher wage that is usually quoted) then everyone who may need carers will be in for a big shock.  Oh, and don't ever think that you are so rich and lucky that it won't happen to you because life rarely does goes according to plan - ie you can't always control it - however well you think you might have arranged things. Change just happens.

Philippa Bond ● 77d

It’s totally uncontrolled. The Home Office doesn’t even know where half of these people are. The ex Head of Border Forces said as much in a remarkable interview last week where he was scathing of the uncontrolled chaos of the Home Office. Hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants and bogus asylum seekers have slipped into the black economy.

Steve Taylor ● 77d

The ‘illegal’ boat people are a tiny number compared with the one million legally approved immigrants who’ve met the various criteria that have been set for income, education, employment or country of origin. It might seem a lot of people but it’s not ‘uncontrolled’, and Starmer will probably need them if he’s going to build however many homes and whatever infrastructure, and rebuild the capacity of our schools and hospitals.

Peter Evans ● 77d

The Rwanda deal was the best idea ever from successive governments which have failed to deal with the huge problem of illegal immigrants and criminals arriving as bogus asylum seekers. If Sunak had won the election you would have seen a dramatic downturn in boat people arriving. With Starmer and Cooper you have seen a radical increase and it will continue to get worse.

Steve Taylor ● 77d

How about going after the millions stolen by Tories and Tory supporters during Covid? Your party,  Jayne, in fourteen years ran the NHS, education,  the court system, prisons and a host of other institutions into the ground. Your party pushed through a ridiculous Brexit deal which has cost the country billions. Your party lost control of immigration and even stopped processing asylum claims.  Your party wasted £750 million on the unlawful and totally wasteful Rwanda idea. The current government may not be getting everything right but your gloom and doom predictions are ridiculous.  How about owning up to the fact that the Tories, when in power, were useless? Johnson? Truss? Really? Nothing improved.

Stewart Jones ● 78d

Sadly that’s the truth and the liberal elite are supposed to look after society rather than well meaning but utter useless policies. Spend, tax and open the doors that is what we have to look forward too for the next 4 years, terrifying.

Jayne Thorburn ● 78d

Why do people think EU countries are going over to the right? The liberal elite have got what they wanted while the rest of us have to look at the mess they have created!

peter king ● 78d

We are not alone, Holland, Germany, Italy, Finland they are all saying the same we can’t cope with these levels of immigration. This is one reason all our services are struggling over population. Immigration has to be controlled and clearly Keir hasn’t got a clue how to manage it let alone stop huge numbers coming in illegally. We don’t even know who is in our country which is utter madness.

Jayne Thorburn ● 78d

With our over generous Benefits System we have over 2 million people not working who should be working. Hence we need immigrants to do the jobs our citizens refuse to do. Before Brexit we had a wonderful supply of willing and able highly qualified people to work in our NHS.  However without these skilled EU citizens we have now had to resort to employing people from third world countries with much lower educational standards. This is a lose lose situation because we aren’t getting the same quality of staff we are used to and those third world countries are losing people they desperately need.  They are educating their people as best they can but our government is stealing them. It’s shameful. With our current immigration running at 1 million a year - mainly unqualified - the country simply doesn’t have the infrastructure to support them and our cities have become third world. We don’t have the schools, hospitals, roads or housing. Most importantly our sewage treatment works have  for thirty years been pumping raw sewage into rivers and the sea. With a million more people a year the overstretched utility companies will collapse. Thames Water is already on the brink of collapse. People defecate and the sewage cannot be treated. Immigrants will breed and cause more stress on our systems.  Today we hear that teacher training applications are at an all time low. The government’s promise to employ 6,500 new teachers has already become a huge lie. Those teachers don’t exist. So whilst we may champion the fact that we have stolen staff from third world countries to sort out our cataracts we need to be aware that the current uncontrolled immigration is sinking us faster than ever.  It’s untenable and unsustainable.

Steve Taylor ● 78d

I went to the Isle of Wight once. Does that count?

Brian Coyle ● 79d

I omitted from that list the two other problem areas of the criminal justice system - prisons and the police. Then there's the question of the housing shortage... and so on. The private sector will take care of it all?

Robert Fish ● 79d

Money recovered from benefits fraud wouldn't touch the sides of the black hole. You keep on banging on about the NHS, that no amount of money will fix it, and reform is the only solution. So if you solve that problem, what about social care, the courts, the probation service, education and all the other broken public services? Remove the state from as much as possible? Leave the indigent to destitution? Bring back the workhouse?"It is a well-rehearsed fact lower taxes generate more money not less" It's a nostrum much favoured by the rich and thoroughly discredited by serious economists. Tell me where the crossover point is on the Laffer curve.Your politics are those of the selfish rich.

Robert Fish ● 79d

Real simple get tough on benefits fraud, reform the NHS as it is unsustainable in current form no amount of money will fix it, actually deliver a growth and investment strategy it is a well rehearsed fact lower taxes generate more money not less. Get rid of woke and reinstate good old fashioned education. Remove state from as much as possible governments have never been good at managing anything.

Jayne Thorburn ● 79d

Think they need to do background checks before allowing them to workwhich is near on impossible I suppose.

Janice Evans ● 79d

“ because they see  it would add to the attraction factor for asylum seekers to come here,perhaps? ”Not perhaps. It’s 100% correct. No doubt blundering Reeves will change that to try increase tax returns but it will just encourage more illegal immigrants to come here under the guise of seeking asylum.  With a million immigrants a year this country is well and truly stuffed. The current situation is untenable and unsustainable. Next Spring and summer we will see mass invasion of economic migrants arriving in dinghies.  It will top the million mark for sure because there is no deterrent.

Steve Taylor ● 79d

One of the possible reasons why successive governments have not allowed asylum seekers to work is because they see  it would add to the attraction factor for asylum seekers to come here,perhaps? I am not giving an opinion,save for why I think that is partly how they arrived at the rule.

Keith Iddon ● 80d

Benefits? Do you have any idea of the pittance that asylum seekers receive? If they're in accomodation which provides food, they get £8.86 to cover everything else.As someone who obviously regards herself as a far superior economist to Rachel Reeves, please tell me how you would restore services without "stealing" money, as you so charmingly put it, or without such huge borrowing as would probably have you diving into your handbag for the smelling salts.

Robert Fish ● 80d

Whilst I don’t disagree equally we don’t want to encourage even more uncontrolled or illegal immigration.

Jayne Thorburn ● 80d

Which is why banning asylum-seekers from working and supporting themselves and contributing is so completely barking….

Sara Nathan ● 80d

I think RR and Keir have stolen enough money off everyone and give nothing back so only a fool would lift the cap we don’t have to money to fund any more benefits they are already out of control. agree we simply don’t have the infrastructure on any level for uncontrolled immigration and this is also happening across Europe. It has to stop.

Jayne Thorburn ● 80d

and too many NHS workers are not happy and are stressed with their working conditions as they are understaffed and have to keep filling for missing workers.

Philippa Bond ● 80d

With social care not sorted and so many people on NHS waiting lists what is needed is fewer people on waiting lists and more who are fit and able to work.

Philippa Bond ● 80d

When Starmer finally bins the 2 child benefit cap, watch the population growth fuelled by immigrants who think it is their religious right to have large families. The liberal elite have a lot to answer for!

peter king ● 80d

And that is just one paragraph of the Wikipedia entry.

Philippa Bond ● 80d

As i said,its in 10-15 years you have to think about,not now. And yes,we need people who comes to this country with skills wanting to work or have jobs lined up as in the NHS etc,thats not the issue we will be facing.

Julian Pavey ● 80d

Yes agree, but we are I think the second most populated country in Europere: landspace, plus people are losing jobs now so it will become more difficult to find work.

Janice Evans ● 80d

It is anyone coming here should be contributing to society, working and paying tax. We are a small island in real terms, our infrastructure is unable to cope with the current level, too many people in benefits so less people working and more benefits doesn’t work.

Jayne Thorburn ● 80d

Thought the problem was over population rather than who was settling here, services collapsing etc.,

Janice Evans ● 80d

Yup Sam..

Helen Bamberger ● 80d

Why can't we just take people as we find them? Some we can rub along with, others just rub us up the wrong way ("Know what I mean squire?). Surely what matters is where people are going to rather than where they came from? As Michael Caine's character said in one of his less memorable films “There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.”

Sam Hearn ● 80d

Thank god for the help of the immigrants who look after us. Intelligence and kind . Without them we would be in a very bad place .

Helen Bamberger ● 80d

And, many staff did not appear to have English as a first language - but I didn't ask - because I don't think you can actually tell - but thank goodness for them!

Philippa Bond ● 80d

My life changed tremendously too when I had cataract operations.  This was made worse by there being a pandemic in the middle between the two.  I was horrified to hear that even before the pandemic that the criteria for needing a cataract operation had been reduced.  I believe these restrictions have been greatly detrimental to the wellbeing and productivity of Britain.

Philippa Bond ● 80d

My mother came home to England to have me but my sister and brothers were all born abroad as was my father whose parents were British.  My mother was actually born in Wales but wasn't Welsh. So you really can't read so much into where people were born!Try doing your family tree and you will find that people move around the UK let alone the globe.  Have you never been abroad?

Philippa Bond ● 80d

Thank you Anne.  I just loved learning Latin at school and hope you get the same pleasure (which considering you obviously love English I am sure you will)!

Philippa Bond ● 80d

I recall reading in the mid 1960sthat the world's population at that time could be crammed shoulder to shoulder into an area the size of two "Isle of Wights!And that in 750 years time the whole of Earth's surface would be neededfor that task.These "Malthusian" predictions might have been overstating population grown ... but it is food for thought.

Jim Lawes ● 81d

Dont forget about BT for a starting point They are shedding jobs every day and its expected to be round 55,000 in total in 6 years time.Over a third taken up by AI. I seriously dont think people who are big on immigration and vocal have thought about the future,the infrstructure,housing and Jobs. Yeh,more jobs needed where jobs could seriously be in decline over the next 10 years. Id say we are heading into the big unknown that may just end up very badly

Julian Pavey ● 81d

Come back in 10 years when we have an extra 10 million people.That's the problem and as we stand today we won't be able to cope in 10 years,15 years. legal or illegal and like that saying about our children's future, we just simply cannot support the growing numbers coming in with no paperwork or a list of printed Q&As on arrival and that is not just in the UK.What the answer is is indeed a 10 million dollar questionMaybe build another 200 hotels,an extra 200,000 houses and flats a year. Another 25 schools,doctors,hospitals,and prisons while many jobs get taken over by robots and AiDont forget we are talking 10 years,can it all be done and working for an extra 10 million people.Oh yeh,extra jobs. Maybe they can work on farms,farming of the future ?

Julian Pavey ● 81d

And anyhow it’s not illegal to claim asylum. What is daft is to ban asylum-seekers from working while they wait - sometimes years - for the Home Office to make a decision on granting refugee status.If they can’t work, it’s pauperising, de-spilling and de-motivating. Allowing asylum-seekers to work after three or six months here would be less expensive, promote integration and encourage independence.Win-win

Sara Nathan ● 81d

Denis, just try harder.  It's really not that hard to grasp.

Stewart Jones ● 81d

Sleep on it, Dennis, and see if you can think of a response in the morning.

Robert Fish ● 81d

Robert, your reasoning is so flawed I cannot give a response.Kind regards.

Denis I. Fox ● 81d

Illegal migration is only illegal because the government has closed down most of the legal ways of arriving in the UK and claiming asylum. If we don't allow in migrants in sufficient numbers, who's going to pay for the pensions of an ever more elderly population? Nearly 20% of the UK population is over 65. We should see migrants as a boon, not a burden.

Robert Fish ● 81d

Cutting to the chase: our's is a proud Christian country which has a rich history, and is welcoming of immigrants into our society.I too have had cataract, dentistry, and other medical care given by immigrants, and forever extremely grateful.That said, Sam Hearn's statistics show a discerning trend towards our way of life, religions, culture and loves being overtaken by other faiths, cultures and beliefs.There are boroughs in London where "Londoners" do not feel at home in their own backyard, and that is a problem.Do not denigrate individuals and political parties who show alarm.

Denis I. Fox ● 81d

Think Steve summed it up beautifully and everyone knows what is meant my illegal migration or at least they should!

Jayne Thorburn ● 81d

“ Illegal immigration is the migration of people into a country in violation of that country's immigration laws, or the continuous residence in a country without the legal right to do so. Illegal immigration tends to be financially upward, from poorer to richer countries.[1] Illegal residence in another country creates the risk of detention, deportation, and other imposed sanctions.[2]Asylum seekers who are denied asylum may face impediment to expulsion if the home country refuses to receive the person or if new asylum evidence emerges after the decision. In some cases, these people are considered illegal aliens. In others, they may receive a temporary residence permit, for example regarding the principle of non-refoulement in the International Refugee Convention. The European Court of Human Rights, referring to the European Convention on Human Rights, has shown in a number of indicative judgments that there are enforcement barriers to expulsion to certain countries, for example, due to the risk of torture.[3]”

Steve Taylor ● 81d

With a comment like that I presume you've totally forgotten about the Windrush Scandal Jayne.Let me remind you:What is the Windrush scandal?  The Windrush scandal began to surface in 2017 after it emerged that hundreds of Commonwealth citizens, many of whom were from the ‘Windrush’ generation, had been wrongly detained, deported and denied legal rights. Guardian journalist Amelia Gentleman investigated and began reporting their experiences. As these shocking stories hit the headlines, Caribbean leaders took the issue up with then-prime minister, Theresa May. There was widespread shock and outrage at the fact that so many Black Britons had had their lives devastated by Britain’s deeply flawed and discriminatory immigration system. Do you still say no one has any issues with legal immigration? You can read the article I cut and pasted that from at https://jcwi.org.uk/reportsbriefings/windrush-scandal-explained/You might learn something.

Andrew Jones ● 81d

What do you mean by “illegal immigration?” If you mean people fleeing war and persecution and claiming asylum in the U.K., it’s not illegal to do that. Also there are relatively few of them (assuming you exclude the Ukrainians)Or do you mean over-stayers who arrived perfectly legally and stayed when their visas expired?Terms need defining…

Sara Nathan ● 81d

Sabiib in Acton High Street near the cinema. It’s really good, with the lamb shank maybe the best. Somali food is African but also Italian (think imperialism) so there’s pasta as well as rice and tiramisu for dessert.It’s astonishingly reasonably priced too.

Sara Nathan ● 81d

The destiny of your surname 😊

Mark Frost ● 81d

Thank you, Keith.

Robert Fish ● 81d

Glad to hear your operation went well,Robert.My mother had the cataract op. on both eyes and had a new lease of life at 75.she started painting again after a few years of not being able to.I hope that is the last of your difficulties.

Keith Iddon ● 81d

Rubbish, Fish. Nobody is fooled by your subversive action. You started the thread to provoke. Your violins are your MO and the story about your eye operation is irrelevant to what you wanted to achieve from your thread title - and did achieve. Well done!

Steve Taylor ● 81d

I think it is quite disrespectful no one has any issues with legal immigration which the UK has welcomed for decades. It creates for a wonderful society so pointing out any specific category of worker just because one assumes they are immigrants is bizarre. I am sure for many generations people have been born in the UK and would not class themselves as immigrants.

Jayne Thorburn ● 81d

There was no intention to provoke. My name isn't Steve Taylor - I don't make a habit of outrageous statements intended to provoke. It was an invitation to reflection - totally lost on you!

Robert Fish ● 81d

The title of the thread is indicative of its sole purpose which is to provoke. It’s nothing more than that. It has succeeded.

Steve Taylor ● 81d

I find this thread bizarre we love legal immigration for so many reasons the real issue is illegal immigration

Jayne Thorburn ● 81d

You may find oncoming headlights especially dazzling until your eyes get used to your improved vision.

Richard Greenhough ● 81d

I remember from my school days that one egg is an 'oeuf' for most people.

Brian Coyle ● 81d

a cockney had to be born within the sound of bow bells.

Janice Evans ● 81d

Robert, that is excellent, I went with my Dad some years back to Park Royal Hosp to have the op, he had taken a Beechams Powder that morning because he had a headache, unfortunately that meant he was the last one to go in, I was there all day, fortunately for me they had nice cafe.

Janice Evans ● 81d

"That’s probably why some folk feel that London isn’t very ‘English ‘anymore…"Since its inception, 2000 years ago, London has been an international entrepot city and very different from most of its hinterland. The generic term 'cockney' is said to derive from the French for a Cock's Egg i.e. something unusual.

Sam Hearn ● 81d

Thank you, Janice (and thank you to JIm as well). The op was a brilliant success. My new lens came into focus in about 12 hours. I need reading glasses, just +1, because the lens is for distance sight. I was concerned it might be a few weeks before I could drive, but I can easily read a number plate at 20 metres.

Robert Fish ● 81d

Correction Robert.

Janice Evans ● 81d

Hope your op is a success Rober, my Dad could see to read without glasses straight away.

Janice Evans ● 81d

Susan,  I accept that, although your comment may have seemed slightly patronising, it was made with the best of intentions. Mark's reaction was unwarranted.

Robert Fish ● 81d

I was surprised at the number of people showing to have been born outside the UK in the last census and then thought 'Wait - one of them is ME!' I was born in Canada.

Anne England ● 81d

There are plenty of foreign language courses at RHACC in Richmond. Without looking, I'm sure this includes Japanese and Polish. The courses are at different levels which reflects demand, for example there is an Advanced German. I am learning Latin there on a Saturday morning.

Anne England ● 81d

My comment about the three young men from Thames Water was not meant to be patronising and certainly not meant to imply that there was anything strange about their being polite and efficient.Some people love to take offence where none is intended!

Susan Kelly ● 81d

Sabiib Somali.  Having talked to one of the owners, they do not take bookings for Friday or Saturday evening but otherwise you can book.  It was very popular when I was there.  The portions are a little large but the staff are very friendly and efficient

Justin Stephenson ● 82d

I totally agree with you, Robert.Emma, can you explain what you mean? Thanks.

Stewart Jones ● 82d

No, Mark, it's not the entire thread. One person  made a rather patronising comment, which I admit made me uneasy, but the thread only seriously deteriorated with your bitchy response. It's a shame you spoilt what started out as a simple celebration of the important contribution of immigrants to the NHS.

Robert Fish ● 82d

That’s probably why some folk feel that London isn’t very ‘English ‘anymore…

Emma Elizabeth ● 82d

As was the PM in 2021.

Stewart Jones ● 82d

As of the 2021 census nearly half the electorate of the Hammersmith and Chiswick Constituency (45%) were born outside the UK. In Brentford and Isleworth it is higher (49%).

Sam Hearn ● 82d

The population is rising not just because of an increased birth rate but because of a lowered death rate as apart from sudden pandemics people live longer than they did many years ago.  Those who lived through WW2 seemed to also be a particularly hardy lot!

Philippa Bond ● 82d

It is a shame that some of us Brits are so poor at learning other languages when there are many who can and do speak other languages as well.  Now that we are no longer in the EU has there been a change from learning French and German as a second language?  Sadly the stereotype is for us to just speak English LOUDER.  What happened to evening classes years ago those were a good way of learning and practising another language with other like minded people.  Online just isn't the same.

Philippa Bond ● 82d

  Atleast the OP knows they were chinese from china. Must have a name badge with place of birth.

Julian Pavey ● 82d

This entire thread is condescending, stereotypical twaddle."All 3 were immigrants, all polite and efficient"How do you know,  did you ask them all, individually?

Mark Frost ● 82d

Some people have strange thoughts on immigrants.

Janice Evans ● 82d

"All 3 were immigrants, all polite and efficient" Well i never. What an odd comment as if one would think they are not,im sure they are human from planet earth.

Julian Pavey ● 82d

What was the Somali Restaurant - I've never tried Somali food before but wouldn't mind if you've got a recommendation.

Andrew Jones ● 82d

To be English is to be an amalgam of wave upon wave of immigrants.  Of course for most of history those immigrants were white skinned and more often than not called invaders but they are still immigrants.The only problem with immigration over the last 20-30 years has been the lack of control over numbers. I do not care what colour of skin an immigrant has, what religion (or lack of religion) they have but the one undeniable fact is that the only reason the UK population is rising is due to immigration and that more recent immigrants tend to have more kids than us "native" English.  The increase in population is putting services under strain but more importantly it allows business to rely on a constant stream of young cheap labour rather than investing in improving their processes.Against that immigration has massively expanded our "native" English society.  Even with something as simple as food, immigrants have brought new dishes, new flavours, new foods into our restaurants and over time into our home.  By way of example a month back I had a very enjoyable meal at a relatively new Somali restaurant on Acton High Street.  I had no idea what to expect but it was good enough to want to go back

Justin Stephenson ● 82d

Most of the people employed doing maintenance work are working within the gig economy,where workers protections and rights are virtually non existence,despite years of union struggle.I am in favour of legal migration and don't care where someone is from as long as they do a decent job,as you experienced.It is unfair imo to wrongly characterise workers as you do.

Keith Iddon ● 82d

I had a team out from Thames Water last month to locate and fix a leaking pipe under my garden wall. All 3 were immigrants, all polite and efficient. It seems as if our native workers are all off sick.

Susan Kelly ● 82d

Sorry, I just had visions of an NHS advert stating 'Dentist posts need filling!"  Without Filipino and West African staff we wouldn't have an NHS.  Always great to see the smile when I greet or thank a Filipino staff memeber in Tagalog.

N V Brooks ● 82d

I noticed the other day it was announced that there was a very low take up for dentistry courses. Remember in the Brexit referendum a certain person told us British young people would fill all these jobs and courses. What happened. Clearly we need immigrants.

Nicholas Beard ● 83d

Agreed Robert and we hope you get well soon ...keep taking those "apres cateract" eye drops!I too have great appreciation for those from foreign parts of the World who help the UK in so many ways.I endeavour to say "thank you" in their language ... whether they be Arabic, Polish, French, German,Italian, Greek etc.But I was unable to say so to a young and lovely Belarussian Doctor the other week ..