Forum Topic

This Governments difficult decisions

Fuel allowance gone, energy costs up . This is going to be a challenging winter for some

John Southey ● 57d228 Comments

“ Over the last 18 months, millions of passengers have been able to travel by bus for just £2 thanks to government funding aimed at supporting people with the cost of living.  The scheme, which was introduced by the Conservative Government, was brought in to help encourage bus travel and ease the financial costs of travelling by public transport. But it is due to end in December and there have been no signs that it will be extended across the whole country. Buses are the most popular mode of public transport in England.  People rely on buses to get to work, school, hospital appointments and more. But with the £2 price cap scrapped, it could leave millions of people feeling isolated and unable to travel in and around their local area and beyond.”

Steve Taylor ● 33d

Yes. Astounding innit?

Steve Taylor ● 33d

Really? Gosh.

Keith Iddon ● 33d

And the biggest lie from the habitual liar, Fish, is that he said he wasn’t going to respond to any of my posts.  But he can’t help himself. This Fish takes the bait every time. And then it flaps around in a frenzy. Hilarious!

Steve Taylor ● 33d

Haha! QED.

Robert Fish ● 33d

“ . I used the phrase simply to drive Steve Taylor demented -“No, you didn’t. That’s another Fishy lie. You just can’t help yourself from lying can you!  A perfect LIARbour party devotee. You used the phrase because you recognise their motives as being true and now you are embarrassed about your open disloyalty to your comrades and hero’s.

Steve Taylor ● 33d

Robert, to copy in politics is not encouraging either, think George Osborne did it with a smile on his face though, I was only interested in support forUkraine which Keir promised,  was not interested in the manifesto as a waste of time, just wish they would lighten up a bit or we will all end up depressed.

Janice Evans ● 33d

No, Janice, it's not about getting their own back. I used the phrase simply to drive Steve Taylor demented - with some success! But it is about using the unfunded expenditure and the amount of public debt as an excuse for restrictive fiscal policy, which is exactly what George Osborne did after the Conservatives were elected in 2010. In truth I don't agree with the direction Rachel Reeves seems to be going (i.e. a continuation of austerity), but the strident criticisms of her for copying Osborne are utter hypocrisy.

Robert Fish ● 33d

Robert, if Labours fuss about 22bn black hole (which they have contributed to already) is getting their own back, it's not a good look or should be usedas an excuse for their own decisions, if decisions are made, own it, wouldgain more respect.  think the general public are fed up with the blame game, they should drop the depressed look and robotic voice and take on an optimistic approach would help them immensely.  I'm not usually one to criticise but doom and gloom they are at the moment.

Janice Evans ● 33d

Julian Pavey ● 34d

Even ash is not happy,now that is saying somethingAsh Sarkar@AyoCaesarIf it had been a Tory donor buying Carrie Symonds' clothes, would Labour's position have been that it's fair enough because there's no allocated budget for the Prime Minister's wife's clothes? I don't f***ing think so!

Julian Pavey ● 34d

“ Labour's fuss about the level of debt and the £22bn 'black hole' is merely getting their own back.”Eweeeee. What bitches!  So it’s just bitchy kindergarten stuff is it?  And the poor old pensioners have to suffer  Stammer and Reeves get their rocks off.

Steve Taylor ● 34d

Sounds like ping pong which is no way to run the economy things have changed dramatically since the run on bank, global pandemic not seen in 100 years and potential for war. There is no question we have come out f a very difficult period globally but we were on the right path economically. For sure this takes time but the last thing UK plc needs now is gloom and doom, scare tactics.

Jayne Thorburn ● 34d

Of course the pandemic and the war contributed to the increase in public debt. No-one would dispute that, but some questions arise:1. Why did debt increase enormously as a perentage of GDP prior to the pandemic, when the stated purpose of austerity was to reduce it?2. Why should people be expected to cut some slack for the last government because of the pandemic and the Ukraine war, when the Conservatives came to power making a fuss about the debt situation they inherited from Labour, even though they knew full well that the increase in debt was due to the costs of bailing out the banks? Labour's fuss about the level of debt and the £22bn 'black hole' is merely getting their own back.

Robert Fish ● 34d

According to this Labour Government: Things that crush the economy. £2.6 billion to winter fuel allowance Things that don’t crush the economy. £3 bn to Ukraine£11.6 bn to African climate Aid£8.6 bn  to GB Energy£10 bn  on Public Sector wage hikes£100 million on train driver wage hikes

Steve Taylor ● 34d

Reeves just needs to follow Rishi’s advice. She inherited a growing economy with extremely low inflation. The UK's growth across 2024 so far is 1.3%, which is the strongest growth in the G7 ahead of the US at 1.1%.

Steve Taylor ● 34d

After a pandemic and a war involvement it's usual to run up debt, the U.Sand China have the most debt then we follow closely with France, so don'tknow why they expect we would have managed all this with no debt at all.

Janice Evans ● 34d

Ah, if only Reeves followed your excellent home-spun advice. This country would be so much better a place, and you wouldn't have to worry about tax diminishing your wealth.

Robert Fish ● 34d

Richard Walker switched his backing from the Tories earlier this year saying Sir Keir Starmer's party was 'the right choice' for his customers.And he happily posed with both Sir Keir and Chancellor Rachel Reeves outside his stores during the election campaign.  But he today warned against introducing a swathe of business tax increases in the Budget next month, warning UK PLC is 'not a lemon that can keep being squeezed without any adverse impact on employment or consumers'.Both Sir Keir and Ms Reeves have made repeated speeches and remarks about the poor state of the nation's economy, with critics suggesting they are fattening the public up to accept tax rises.Says it all really…..it’s just plain wrong Starmer & Reeves need to start behaving like leaders clearly they have no clue how to run an economy let alone growth strategy. Labour MPs as someone else pointed out are only interested in their job completely useless at holding Starmer and reeves to account.

Jayne Thorburn ● 34d

I don't think this government's started out well, but it's too early to judge. As to doom and gloom, most of that seems to be propagated by the local malcontents who will never be reconciled to the fact of a Labour government. There has been an unbelievable amount of fuss generated over one poor decision, and a lot of baseless speculation of what may be to come.I worry that the signs so far indicate that Rachel Reeves may be about to prolong austerity, which has already done so much damage to our public services and limited growth in GDP. Funny that when Conservative Chancellors were implementing their austerity programme we didnt hear these howls of grief and rage from the forum members who are now so vocal.The fact is we are hamstrung by adherence to the "fiscal rules". Unless Reeves casts off the straitjacket of adherence to the rules, she is doomed. The solution to the restoration of public services and to the problem of low growth is massive investment, funded by borrowing. Forget the household economics and the idea of a balanced budget. It's observance of the fiscal rules that creates the tension between taxation increases and cutting services/benefits, such as the unfortunate winter fuel allowance decision. With the tax burden already quite high by historical standards, increases in taxation should be designed with redistribution in mind rather than generating revenue to reduce public debt. Massive investment requires more than taxing the rich "until the pips squeak" (to misquote Dennis Healey - he was referring to squeezing property speculators, not the rich per se). It requires massive borrrowing, and a compete throwing over of the fiscal rules. Given the parlous state of all our public services, further austerity is inconceivable. And growth will be achieved only by expansionary measures - not by a form of household economics.Change was at the heart of Labour's election campaign. So far I see no sign of change. We are still being held back by outdated Tory nostrums. I say to Rachel Reeves: no more austerity, please. It's no good resisting change so as not to alienate the Tory-supporting media - they'll crucify you anyway. Be bold!

Robert Fish ● 35d

“ The chancellor's claim of a £22bn "black hole" in government finances was "unnecessary and probably unhelpful economically", a former Bank of England chief economist has said.Andy Haldane told Sky News' Politics Hub with Sophy Ridge that Rachel Reeves's statement in July was a "bad idea" because it generated a sense of "fear and foreboding" just when there was a new-found confidence in the UK.Ms Reeves made the claim within weeks of taking office in what was widely seen as a warning that her first budget in October would be a painful mix of spending cuts and tax rises.Mr Haldane said he hoped the government did not pursue a path of austerity - but warned wealth taxes also posed a risk to the economy.He said: "The black hole event was unnecessary and probably unhelpful economically."It's one thing to reveal a black hole, if that indeed is what it is. But just leaving that to sit for three months I think was a bad idea."Asked what the government should have done, he said it was "much better to say nothing until you provide solutions".Mr Haldane added: "That's generated a fear and foreboding and uncertainty among consumers, among businesses, among investors... which is unfortunate because just after the election, there was a sense of refresh, a sense of renewal, a confidence about the UK both domestically and internationally.”

Steve Taylor ● 35d

Surely this isn’t about politics but basic economics whatever happened to their manifesto and growth strategy, all they seem to be doing to targeting groups and penny pinching. It’s really nasty polictics at play and nothing to do with sensible economics even a child could work this through. If people spend government collects tax, people, buy houses government collects, people work government collect tax, people die government collects tax so Rachael reeves clearly doesn’t understand that. I can see civil unrest coming if they continue on the current path. Where is the optimism, positivity…….sp far Labour are spreading gloom and doom they need to be very careful what they wish for.

Jayne Thorburn ● 35d

Perhaps if already quite well renumerated Labour mp's and able to claim all kinds of nonsense on expenses and have a very generous allowance heating,gave up those allowances to show that they are not hypocrites and that they will share the burden where they can,we could at least respect them for that.Fat chance.

Keith Iddon ● 35d

Not all the old are in a hurry.Making difficult decisions is best done without haste.One says they smell a rat, suggest you start using deodorant.Another bests a professional economist at economics,  but  she probably really means home economics.Our United Kingdom has had a very rough ride over the last 17 years. Our country wants change and wants its many champions to dig deeper than we have and draw upon a power we believe that this country has.It will not be easy. Ahead, looms a grim shadow that threatens to obscure our already difficult path to improvement. Now, we can enjoy each other's contradicting opinions, but a time has come to pull together, stronger than ever in my memory.This Government faces difficult decisions.

Roland Bolowski ● 35d

You make a good point,Stewart.But the reality of British politics is that we have a country moving to the right and a government tht is nominally at least left wing.Both looking pretty useless.We have changed deck chairs on the Titanic.

Keith Iddon ● 36d

What about the economic genius of Liz Truss?

Paul Campbell ● 36d

Only a moron would not want those marvellous years under the Tories not to be revived.

Stewart Jones ● 36d

I forgot to mention the intellectual tower that was Nadine Dorries. How we miss that incisive intelligence. I’m sure you do too

Stewart Jones ● 36d

Jayne, if only those marvellous Tories were still in power. We miss the lies, the corruption, the venality. Bring them back.

Stewart Jones ● 36d

"It may be a difficult winter for us, but we must help each other through it". In what way would you suggest?

Brian Coyle ● 36d

Especially if the council tax single occupancy rebate is withdrawn.

Nicholas Beard ● 36d

Labour clearly don’t understand basic economics, so let’s remove the winter fuel allowance from pensioners unless they are on pension credit, so if I understand this correctly allegedly there are approx 2M pensioners so are entitled to pension credit but aren’t claiming it so if 50% plus now claim it what impact does this have on the so called tax saving? i am guessing very little take from one to give to another so zero. Anything over  12k for single or 18K for a couple is hardly enough for them to look after themselves. Surely pensioners have to complete a self assessment each year if they claim the state pension plus have other income. Why didn’t Labour just say via HMRC threshold of say 30K the winter fuel payment would stop, if overseas they get nothing because I am guessing they don’t compete self assessment. If they increase capital gains tax this will have a knock on affect for areas like buy to let so the actual tax intake will reduce via stamp duty. We need a thriving housing market because the government collect billions in taxes kill this one = less tax collected. Going after higher earners who already contribute the lion share of taxes is crazy. None of this makes any sense to me. To be clear I am not affected by the above but I do understand basic economics.

Jayne Thorburn ● 36d

In May 1968 Jocelyn Hambro described Harold Wilson as the worst Prime Minister since Lord North. In 2018 Jeremy Paxman said David Cameron had taken that accolade. Of course, that was before Liz Truss......

Richard Greenhough ● 36d

Roland has been posting occasionally on CW4 for the past three years. Topic: Chiswick's Blue Plaques ! Posted by: Roland BolowskiDate/Time: 09/09/21 16:44:00

Richard Greenhough ● 36d

Paxman said David Cameron was the worst prime minister since Lord North.Starmer can't let a Tory hold that distinction and is working to get that accolade.  So far doing a reasonable job.

James Roy ● 36d

Not a fake surely 🙊

Janice Evans ● 36d

Hilarious that Campbean is now driven to speak through his alter ego Bollockski to try get attention!  Truly hilarious.

Steve Taylor ● 36d

Roland wot? I smell a rat.

Keith Iddon ● 36d

A very silly name that Campbean has come up with to post under, Roland Bollockski. Hilarious!  Don’t feed the Troll.

Steve Taylor ● 37d

ditto

Roland Bolowski ● 37d

It may be a difficult winter for us, but we must help each other through it.The distraction of silly-billy comments below,  we can safely ignore.

Roland Bolowski ● 37d

" it’s really fantastic to drive from from Barnes to the A4 "yes you are silly...but its not my imagination, its yours. Or is "from from"  the name of your little pony ?Well done.

Roland Bolowski ● 37d

“ I see we have another uninformed troll in our midst. Frightening that they can vote.”This one can’t vote because it’s not a real person. It’s one of Campbean’s imaginary friends. Bless the Troll for trying but don’t feed it anymore.

Steve Taylor ● 37d

Agreed. Nice to hear from somebody with some stoicism and perspective instead of the usual selfish bloated whingebags.

Paul Campbell ● 37d

Sounds like he is very well informed.

David Burke ● 37d

"Sunak's 25% Corp Tax will eventually be reduced, by Labour""Labour reducing taxes ? Which planet are you from ? "You prove my point adequately 🤣

Roland Bolowski ● 37d

"another uninformed troll" "Frightening that they can vote"Expect they'll be eating  your cat's & dogs next.Keep your fear, there are braver people in our country.

Roland Bolowski ● 37d

Indeed.  I see we have another uninformed troll in our midst. Frightening that they can vote.

Claire Moran ● 37d

"Sunak's 25% Corp Tax will eventually be reduced, by Labour"Labour reducing taxes ? Which planet are you from ?

Richard Greenhough ● 37d

Thankfully the grossly irresponsible Tories are no longer our government & Sunak's 25% Corp Tax will eventually be reduced, by Labour,  as it is counterproductive.Fixing the damage done to the UK will take time. Most pensioners come from a time when things were actually tougher, so those whingers on here, champion silliness. UK people have had to put up with a lot of silliness over the last decade.The UK will be fixed and pensioners are leading the way, they are more resolute than those geniuses that write their silly whinging on here.

Roland Bolowski ● 37d

As a junior at the Bank of England she probably learnt a few tricks and then being on the front bench in opposition she would have been taught all the bloodsucking scams to take, take, take.

Steve Taylor ● 37d

Did she used to work with our former MP,Ann Keen-on-Expenses ?

Richard Greenhough ● 37d

“Rachel Reeves has defended claiming expenses for energy bills at her second home after the Government’s plans to scale back winter fuel payments for pensioners cleared the Commons.Records of the Chancellor’s energy bill claims show that she claimed back more than £3,000 over five years.”

Steve Taylor ● 37d

Of course Rupa voted that way because she is a coward and didn’t want to lose the whip. They are all just thinking about their own jobs and terrified of the wicked  witch with her smug smile just daring them to go against her.

Steve Taylor ● 38d

Well then, the pensioners know whom to blame - you!

Robert Fish ● 38d

Rupa Huq voted to withdraw the wfa, thus ensuring she will never get my vote again.

Claire Moran ● 38d

And the more you look at her grinning face, the more she morphs into a wicked witch.  If she wasn’t such a coward, intent on sucking up to the fat cats, she could actually force energy companies to cancel the outrageous daily standing charges for pensioners as well as the 5% VAT. Consider that pensioners will now be forced to switch off heating but they are still subjected to the huge daily standing charges for gas and electricity whether they are using it or not. That may go a little way to absorbing the pain. However, the more she is criticised across the political spectrum, the more determined she is to twist the knife on the vulnerable pensioners.

Steve Taylor ● 38d

Agree Steve all Labour have achieved so far is to cause concern which is never good for business investment which is a key pillar for investment. The move on pensioners is shocking so everyone needs to hold on October will reveal more shocking moves. Labour are talking the UK down which no government should do. Rachael Reeves has so far proved she is a poor excuse for a chancellor. It proves one thing they deceived the electorate about a growth strategy.

Jayne Thorburn ● 38d

Growth from Hunt  - flatline from Reeves. Now we wait for the rapid decline. “The UK economy flatlined in July for the second month in a row, according to the latest official figuresThe latest data comes after the economy continued its recovery from recession at the end of last year, with growth of 0.6% between April and June.“

Steve Taylor ● 38d

Well if you are scared about paying a bit more tax Jayne you can get in a small boat and throw yourself at the mercy of the French. Unless you decide to be an economic migrant and ask a country further afield with a low-tax regime to take you in instead of claiming asylum in the nearest safe country.

Paul Campbell ● 38d

According to the Business population estimates for the UK and regions 2023, there are 5.51 million SMEs, which make up 99.9% of UK private sector businesses. 5.51 million of these are classed as “small” (0 to 49 employees) and 36,905 are classed as “medium-sized” (50 to 249 employees).I am guessing the majority are not rich but hard working and employing millions of staff between them they should all be celebrated.

Jayne Thorburn ● 38d

You have a very warped view of the world, surely we want to grow the wealth for everyone, that means developing more skilled workers that increases their earning power and yes it means a larger % pays tax rather than attacking 1% of the population who already contribute hundred of millions in tax and I am guessing are NOT a burden on the state. We certainly don’t want them to emigrate because they are penalised and other countries will welcome them who treat them more fairly re tax. We need wealth creators in society otherwise it really is a race to the bottom.

Jayne Thorburn ● 39d

I think that if rich business owners in Chiswick bleat several times every day on their local social media platforms about how scared they are that they might have to pay a bit more in tax then the likelihood increases that somebody will finally take notice of their suffering and possibly even care for a second or two. Then we can all go back to listening to the same rich business owners attacking people fleeing war zones. Every. Single. Day.

Paul Campbell ● 39d

It would be heart breaking if thousands of companies go, for everyone concerned but particularly all the staff, forget the hundred of millions in lost tax then where will Labour go……it’s ££££ that’s pays for everything. Clearly you don’t understand simple economics 😂😂😂😂

Jayne Thorburn ● 39d

Stop it Jayne. It’s just too heartbreaking to read about the plight of rich business owners in Chiswick who might have to pay slightly higher taxes.  Your suffering is intolerable.

Paul Campbell ● 39d

Without thousands of successful business owners this country would be a third world country 😂😂😂 employment, pay enormous taxes, enables a healthy supply chain etc. unlike global corps they can’t play to avoid tax they just pay it and make a massive contribution to society, think about it Paul…..

Jayne Thorburn ● 39d

“ Keir is hard left and has no idea how to run our economy”Neither does Reeves. She is proving to be a disaster. But then we all knew she would be as soon as she started her excuses of blaming others. She clearly had no clue on how to interpret the figures provided by the Civil Service in the months leading up to the election.

Steve Taylor ● 39d

“ EU voters are becoming more right wing,and so are ours.We have to ask ourself why.”No we don’t. It’s bleeding obvious.

Steve Taylor ● 39d

No one would accept us Paul that's a cert.

Janice Evans ● 39d

Jayne, if the persecution of rich Chiswick business owners continues then maybe you could jump in a small boat and seek asylum at the first place you land?

Paul Campbell ● 39d

I am not sure that is the case but we are yet to see if he has other unwanted surprises for us common folk.

Keith Iddon ● 39d

If they continue down this path I can see massive protests, hard working people don’t tend to shout but I fear they will along with pensioners they are getting very close to the days of poll tax when normal people came out in their thousands in protest. Keir is hard left and has no idea how to run our economy he played the centre left card to gain votes now his true colours are coming home to roust. Then he did support Corbyn…..

Jayne Thorburn ● 39d

The thing is that some people will claim that because we have a Labour government with a huge majority that we have had a lurch to the left by the electorate.Looking at the numbers of voters who voted for centre or right wing parties,this is clearly not the case,quite the opposite in fact.EU voters are becoming more right wing,and so are ours.We have to ask ourself why.

Keith Iddon ● 39d

“ Whatever happened to democracy,”Democracy is restricted to Conservatives. The Labour Party has historically been run by despots. We’ve seen it for decades particularly in Councils. And let’s face it, most of the Labour run councils are bankrupt.

Steve Taylor ● 39d

Whatever happened to democracy, MP’s should listen to their constituents and vote accordingly without fear of losing their job. Labour are sounding seriously dangerous and sadly I fear Keir is right things are going to get worse until we get a chance to vote them out. I don’t see anything getting better under Labour given how they have started their period of government. I reckon there are millions of voters who regret voting for them. Sorry I forgot they have new membership’s from the early release prisoners,,,,,so let’s not worry about hard working business owners who are the backbone of the economy and heaven forbid if they are successful….lets punish them just wait until Octobers budget

Jayne Thorburn ● 39d

Seems 40 odd Labour mp's think this is a step too far.I reckon there are quite a few more who wanted to vote against it but for the sake of their career didn't.

Keith Iddon ● 39d

Labour are supposed to be for working people or that's what is said, yetit's the working people who will lose jobs if these businesses leave U.K.

Janice Evans ● 39d

I truth when the next crisis comes along which it will is fear if Labour are in power they have no clue, a healthy economy supports everyone not just the bully unions. They have got a grip on Labour and business which actually supports the economy are going to be punished for working hard, making enormous sacrifices to get a business going, employ staff, pay £££ in various taxes Labour don’t understand the word fair. Let nationalise water, rail etc how on earth are we going to pay for it???? Much stronger scrutiny on these companies is needed not nationalising. Is never worked before and it won’t work  moving forward once any government gets involved in any industry we are all doomed.

Jayne Thorburn ● 39d

They were over generous, but what I like about them is they were generous to everyone, not just those who voted for them.

Janice Evans ● 39d

The problem is that Reeves and her lot are quick to blame but they don’t have the guts to acknowledge or appreciate that Rushi had to see the Country through the Pandemic, the Ukrainian War and the fuel crisis.  These were the most devastating events for decades. Rishi was perhaps too generous with his Furlough Scheme as well as his over generous government subsidy on Gas and Electricity bills for EVERY Account holder, rich or poor.  This wasn’t necessary but now he is being blamed for the alleged black hole by Stammer and Reeves. The Furlough Scheme was incredibly generous but unfortunately it was exploited to the full by greedy unscrupulous business owners who didn’t need it but claimed it. Apparently even the Duchy of Cornwall jumped on the golden bandwagon driven by Rishi.  Rishi’s problem is that he is too decent and too nice to be a good politician. You need to be nasty and backstabbing like Stammer and Reeves and care not a jot about the people you pretend to serve. I would love to see how these uncaring people in government  cope with any crisis in the coming years and if they will still be blaming the old Tory government for their own gross incompetence. 

Steve Taylor ● 39d

The £22bn black hole has been independently verified. The country has significant debt and deficit mostly ignored by governments since Boris was PM.  Pay rises for the public sector have clearly not added £10bn. Public sector pay has fallen significantly in real terms since 2010 and it’s become hard to recruit teachers, doctors etc so some catch up was overdue. If we want decent public services and investment in the future it needs paying for. For me, and many economists, one obvious option is reform of property tax. My mother, who will lose the fuel allowance, has to pay around 12% of her entire annual income in council tax but the obvious inequities of this regressive  tax barely get in mention discussion of tax. Removing the winter fuel allowance looks like a really poor political decision which will haunt this new government unless they backtrack and only remove it from richer pensioners eg those in higher rate tax brackets. But overall I’d rather a government that tried to tackle the problems this country has rather than one that  ignored them, diverted attention by blaming everyone else and enriched themselves and friends with dodgy deals and contracts.

David Turner ● 39d

Your attempts to exonerate drivers who kill others and instead reserve your blame for cyclists is comical. Driver error, not illness, is the leading cause of collisions. In 2022 police positively identified that mobile phone use while driving was involved in the deaths of 22 people, and that is likely an underestimate. Just that one example of driver culpability dwarfs all the deaths that involve a collision with a cyclist. Anyone who cares about people being killed on our roads should be far more concerned by the behaviour of drivers than cyclists.

Tom Pike ● 39d

“ Anyone who cared about pedestrian deaths would focus on that risk,”I am totally focussed on pedestrian deaths which is why it is important that police target cyclists riding illegally on pavements and prosecute them. The police can’t really target motorists because motorists who mount pavements and accidentally injure or kill pedestrians have not done so intentionally. These are normally accidents caused by driver illness or the like.

Steve Taylor ● 40d

Rachel Reeves is now telling pensioners to blame the Tories what doesn’t she get, she made the decision not the Tories 🤔🤔🤔🤔 whoops the 22 billion black hole of which she has already added 10 billion with payrises. I fear that Labour clearly has no vision so let’s blame the tories for all the decisions they make she must think the voters are idiots

Jayne Thorburn ● 40d

Unless of course it's a Tesla.

Brian Coyle ● 40d

“ I didn't think being an unpaid carer could get worse... Thanks Labour Party.”This is just the beginning. It’s going to get a LOT worse for the elderly and vulnerable under this Labour Government. They have shown themselves to be truly nasty people. And all they do is blame the last government. Pathetic.

Steve Taylor ● 40d

The irony is when the Tories were thinking of stopping the payment Keir stated and it has been reported that it would result in 4,000 more deaths so what has changed his thinking less pensioners to have to fund! Just shocking people have worked all their lives, paid their taxes and now when we should be looking after them Labour desert then. It would be very easy to pay it to pensions receiving let’s say less than 25K per year which they know via their self assessment return. If they don’t complete a self assessment form it suggests they are on the state pensions. If people live overseas then they get nothing.

Jayne Thorburn ● 40d

If the chance of a pedestrian being killed by a motor vehicle on the pavement is one hundred times that of a bike, then clearly that is the more important risk.Anyone who cared about pedestrian deaths would focus on that risk, not spend their time making verbal contortions to somehow imply that such a comparison is callous.

Tom Pike ● 40d

Martin Lewis proposed basing it on Council Tax Bands. Those in cheapest value housing get full amount and those in most expensive get zero. Those in the middle get it according to a sliding scale.

Steve Taylor ● 40d

“ that does not take into account the hugely different number of care to bikes and the amount of road hours in that both forms of transport occupy than the stat. is flawed imo.”No, no, no. According to Tom it doesn’t matter what is taken into account because the “real” threat or the “important threat” is from cars.  If you are killed by a bike on a pavement - tough luck because bikes aren’t considered a “real” threat so your death isn’t important according to statistics.

Steve Taylor ● 40d

Or why don't they allow better off pensioners an opt out from receiving it or better still link it to income where everyone gets something,but the best off get say £25(which they will likely give to charity) and the worst off the full amount,with those in between receiving various decreasing amounts depending upon income.

Keith Iddon ● 40d

Denis Fox : "Now come Xmas we will be left with 100k refugees with nowhere to go, because Labour has taken them out of our hotels and barges. And where are they going to go? In Council houses of course."Philippa Bond : "Why in council houses?  Why not in some mates' hotels?  Isn't that what happened previously."Did you actually read Denis' post, Philippa ?

Richard Greenhough ● 40d

Having the winter fuel allowance as a universal grant to pensioners made it an easy target for a cost-cutting Chancellor, but a little thought on the part of Reeves and Starmer should have made them realise that a carefully-targeted grant eased in over a year or two would have been better than simply abolishing it. They should also have factored in that many pensioners would need help in claiming pension credit and simplified the system to allow them to do so.

Richard Greenhough ● 40d

I think this controversial decision will come back to haunt Labour as it will have some unintended consequences,like an increase in pensioner deaths.Since the introduction of the scheme,pensioner deaths during the worst months of winter have decreased considerably.With the mooted raid on pension pots in the coming budget together with this decision,will cross the Labour party off many pensioners' Christmas card list.

Keith Iddon ● 40d

As an unpaid carer, having to have heating on in winter most of the day for my elderly father, the winter fuel allowance made it much easier for me as he got it and passed it to me. It only made a dent, but it was something.  If I put him in a residential care home, the council would have to pay thousands a month and take what pension he gets. I am saving them that money. I didn't think being an unpaid carer could get worse... Thanks Labour Party. 

Tania Bapuji ● 40d

Just working my way thru a lot of posts and it didn't land where it should have.  It was in reply to Denis Fox re housing of migrants.

Philippa Bond ● 40d

?

Keith Iddon ● 40d

Why in council houses?  Why not in some mates' hotels?  Isn't that what happened previously.

Philippa Bond ● 40d

It is much easier to see and hear a car,they are uNlikely to be coming at you from behind on a footpath,unheard and unseen, and there are countless more of them than bikes so any accident rate analysis that does not take into account the hugely different number of care to bikes and the amount of road hours in that both forms of transport occupy than the stat. is flawed imo.

Keith Iddon ● 40d

Tom is interpreting the word “” Real” as in most important”.  He uses the analogy of a study on environmental impact of sewage discharge to rivers V agricultural waste discharge whereby it was proclaimed that the ‘real’ threat was from sewage discharge.  I presume this means that the EA must target water companies rather than bother about rogue farmers. I assume by the same analogy the “real” threat is from motorists who for some reason (heart attack, failed brakes or steering etc) mount pavements and kill pedestrians rather than irresponsible cyclists riding illegally on pavements, killing people. Hence the authorities should concentrate on accidental deaths caused by motorists rather than deaths caused by cyclists breaking the law, simply because there are more deaths caused by motorists hence the deaths caused by cyclists are not important by his analogy.

Steve Taylor ● 40d

Why is that reason to ignore or allow cyclists on pavements to kill even more, I'm not disputing Toms info, he always explains in detail if we don't understand a few points.

Janice Evans ● 40d

Steve is making a fuss about a threat which is negligible compared with the risk of a pedestrian beimg killed on the pavement by a motorist. The real threat is from motor vehicles, as Tom observed yesterday. Research by the University of Westminister’s Active Travel Project found that between 2005 and 2018, 548 pedestrians on pavements were killed by vehicles, and just 6 were killed by cyclists. Why is Steve not similarly exercised by deaths caused by motorists?

Robert Fish ● 40d

The point Steve is making is that pedestrians should not have to riskbeing killed by cyclists, he is absolutely right there should not be cyclists onpavements regardless of how many are killed by cars.

Janice Evans ● 40d

He has made a few promises on improving the N.H.S, in reality it appearsa difficult task.

Janice Evans ● 40d

Camilla Tominey gave Wes Streeting a torrid time this morning on GB News.Questions were asked of the shocking state of the NHS in Labour run Wales, the abolition of private schools, the BBC bias towards Israel, the cronyism and hypocrisy running amok within the current government.The Health minister gave difficult but resolute replies to the barrage of put-downs.The journalist gave credit to Wes Streeting, who she said was always willing to appear on the News programme, unlike the rest of the Labour front benches, forever running scared.

Denis I. Fox ● 41d

“Real” as in most important, Steve, as in a recent study showed the real threat to river ecosystems comes from sewage discharges, whether treated or untreated, rather than agricultural or urban runoff.

Tom Pike ● 41d

Errr. What hole? I have confirmed to Tom that I accept his statistics. What’s your problem in understanding that??

Steve Taylor ● 41d

Steve if you'll accept a little well meaning advice.When you are in a hole,stop digging.

Keith Iddon ● 41d

“ glad you accept the evidence, though your rhetoric on the threat to pedestrians seems little changed.The real threat, that from motor vehicles, ”Yes of course I accept the evidence but there is nonetheless still a threat to pedestrians from cyclists. I have issue with your assertion that the threat from motorists is any more ‘real’.  When pedestrian is killed or injured on a pavement, it’s real whether the culprit was riding a bicycle negligently on a pavement or a motorist veers out of control over a pavement. Surely they are both real threats?

Steve Taylor ● 41d

I’m glad you accept the evidence, though your rhetoric on the threat to pedestrians seems little changed.The real threat, that from motor vehicles, is being tackled much more effectively in London than the other regions, as the evidence clearly shows with fatalities here falling by a third compared to the rest of England and Wales. Robert actually provided some very strong evidence that taxing non-doms not only had a negligible effect on their emigration rates, but increased the tax raised by more than 150%. It’s just such evidence that should form a basis for government policy.

Tom Pike ● 41d

And of course Frost’s bitchy comments are held in total contempt. Much more so than Fish who occasionally makes an intelligent observation when his vision isn’t blurred by his over obsessive hatred of the Conservatives and his unwavering and unhealthy adoration of the Labour Party.

Steve Taylor ● 41d

“ He doesn’t dispute it, just says the evidence is “interesting” and then ignores it. ”Oh come on Tom. You are better than that, surely?  I didn’t dispute it and, as said, I found it ‘interesting’ - meaning - I was thanking you for your time and effort in providing it for me to read and digest. I don’t know why you would assert that I ignored it. As for Fish, he simply provided a thesis which was, just a thesis. He couldn’t provide evidence (as you have kindly done) to prove anything. He just provides his own warped opinion.I have always found your stats interesting and believable but I have always also been interested when other have challenged you on some issues and then formed my own opinions, normally being swayed by your arguments and professional  research I might add!

Steve Taylor ● 41d

The door to Steve's cupboard of ignorance has been held ajar for many years now by a scuffed, 1972 copy of a Chambers mini dictionary.

Mark Frost ● 41d

That’s the point Bob the liar!  You don’t know the meaning of abstract, obviously. So carry on with your lies.

Steve Taylor ● 41d

Steve has been presented Home-Office evidence that pedestrians on the pavement face a risk of death from a motor vehicle hitting them one hundred times that from a bicycle.  He doesn’t dispute it, just says the evidence is “interesting” and then ignores it. It’s obviously much simpler to maintain beliefs if they don’t rely on any evidence.

Tom Pike ● 41d

You don’t get to be as ignorant as Steve Taylor by reading

Paul Campbell ● 41d

It seems like you don't even know what an abstract is. But carry on in ignorance. I won't waste more breath on you.

Robert Fish ● 41d

Which is, of course, obvious because abstract is meaningless. You have simply formed your own opinion, which you are entitled to, but it is meaningless to the wider world and proves nothing

Steve Taylor ● 41d

The abstract provided no evidence

Steve Taylor ● 41d

You don't need to read 54 pages, just the abstract (less than one page).

Robert Fish ● 41d

I’m not prepared to read 54 pages when there may be no evidenceIf you can’t provide the relevant page/s I have to assume that you haven’t read them either!  In which case your assertion is nonsense. It could also be argued that thousands of millionaires had enormous confidence in Rishi and Hunt after the disastrous Truss / baffoon Kwarteng saga and they have been sticking it out but now that they have seen the incompetence and flip flopping of Reeves and Stammer the mass exodus will follow. But never mind because your Brazilian friends coming in will equalise the migration numbers.

Steve Taylor ● 41d

Did you not even read the abstract?

Robert Fish ● 41d

Which page provides clear (undisputed) evidence of this please?

Steve Taylor ● 41d

How many left? How about a few facts to back up your assertions? The paper by Asvani, Burgherr and Summers might disabuse you of some of your notions about multi-millionaires leaving the UK: https://arunadvani.com/papers/AdvaniBurgherrSummers2023_TaxationAndMigrationByTheSuperRich.pdf

Robert Fish ● 42d

“ There are plenty of reasons why the very rich would want to stay in the UK,”There may well be, Fishy, but the ones you have listed are just in your head. Your thoughts, your opinions, your ideas and your assumptions. There is no truth to your assertion. Hence the reason why so many millionaires left the country even under the low tax Conservative regime. There are many countries offering much better tax relief and far higher living standards and better, healthier climates. The UK is fast becoming a dump and even billionaires have to step outside their bubbles and see it. Why do you think so many multi millionaire rock stars no longer live here?

Steve Taylor ● 42d

2.9m millionaires in the UK. And how many are making inquiries about emigrating because of potential tax increases? This is looking a bit like tabloid alarmism …

Paul Campbell ● 42d

Ah, the myth of millionaire tax flight! What may seem obvious to the uninformed layman (or woman) has little basis in fact. You should read the book by Cristobal Young, which debunks the widely-held myth that raising taxes on the wealthy inevitably prompts their out-migration and ultimately reduces tax revenue. Also read the Times article today rather more carefully, and you will discover that it relies for its sources on firms which specialise in helping the uber-wealthy relocate. Perhaps no more than wishful thinking on their part!There are plenty of reasons why the very rich would want to stay in the UK, even in the event of a major increase in the tax burden. They may have deep roots here, with homes and land passed down through generations, or they may have strong family attachments, valuable friendships, and profound connections to community and culture. Fortunately, for most people who live in and love this country mammon isn't what drives them. The people who are most likely to move out are those with shallow roots in the UK and homes in several countries, so shifting residence isn't a big deal for them.

Robert Fish ● 42d

2,849,000

N V Brooks ● 42d

What is the answer to the question?

Paul Campbell ● 42d

Company Insolvencies: Echoes of 2008We’re seeing company insolvencies in England and Wales rise to levels not seen since the 2008 financial crisis. This isn’t just a statistic—it’s a clear signal that our economic foundations are under severe pressure.With national debt soaring and the cost of living crisis affecting everyone, it’s more critical than ever that businesses thrive. After all, it’s through their profits that we generate the tax revenue necessary to fund public services and put cash into the pockets of employees.The current wave of insolvencies is not just hurting business owners; it’s impacting our ability to sustain the economy. Every business that closes its doors is a loss of jobs, a loss of income, and a loss of tax revenue. This creates a vicious cycle where the burden on public services increases just as the means to fund them decreases.For every millionaire that leaves the country, their money goes not just in tax but investment, jobs, we need wealth creators to be a thriving economy. Labour be warned get the budget wrong in October at your peril.

Jayne Thorburn ● 42d

What is the answer to my question?

Paul Campbell ● 42d

It comes from https://www.henleyglobal.com/publications/henley-private-wealth-migration-report-2024Its not just number of people,its the money and investment that is taken away.

Julian Pavey ● 42d

Ho many millionaires did the Times say were contemplating emigration and how many millionaires are there in the UK Jayne?

Paul Campbell ● 42d

A record number of millionaires could leave the United Kingdom this year as political turmoil and the potential for higher taxes under a future Labour government reduce the appeal of what was once among the top destinations for the rich.The report is based on data on 150,000 high-net-worth individuals (HNWIs) tracked by investment firm New World Wealth. The firm only counts people who stay in their new country more than half of the year, and focuses primarily on company founders, chairs, CEOs, presidents, directors and managing partners.The continuing exodus from the UK — 16,500 millionaires left between 2017 and 2023 — is part of a global mass migration of the rich that appears to be accelerating. The Henley Private Wealth Migration report found that 128,000 millionaires are set to relocate this year, beating last year’s record by 8,000. What will they do. Oh,cuts,tax rises and pay next years round of pay demands

Julian Pavey ● 42d

Article in the Times re tax consultants receiving a big increase in enquiries form multimillionaires looking to leave the UK as a plan B if the budget goes after them. When will Labour learn if they target the wealthiest, they will leave and society is poorer on every level not to mention the hundreds of millions they pay in tax which will be longer. Surely they have grown up on this subject,

Jayne Thorburn ● 42d

Steve, they were never interested in the U.K and made it damn obvious.

Janice Evans ● 42d

Bit OTT, we still wear masks in supermarkets, and it was no ones faultdecisions were made by the 'experts', Boris never wanted lockdown, ifKeir had opposed it nothing would have stop it, was out of their hands.Love the way they just entered the pub anyway.

Janice Evans ● 42d

"The current government has no viable solution." Oh i does Smash the gangs man,smash the gangs Good luck with that one

Julian Pavey ● 42d

I very much doubt that Barnier is interested in striking up a relationship with Starmer. He voiced his contempt for the British people after the Brexit vote and he will not allow a Brit problem to become his problem. The Brits are alone in fighting this battle because they are no longer members of the ‘club’.  Rishi saw that very clearly which is why the Rwanda deal came into play. The current government has no viable solution.

Steve Taylor ● 42d

From 2 years to 3 years from another labour memberPoor old flip flop 😁

Julian Pavey ● 42d

Julian Pavey ● 42d

The newly elected French PM, the debonaire Michel Barnier might well strike up a kindred relationship with Sir Keir- both are beholden to the EU- but any collaboration they reach with the immigration problem will be reached with a massive trade-off.And the dinghies would still keep coming in.

Denis I. Fox ● 42d

Yep. Quite correct. Look at Germany. The right is gathering momentum.

Steve Taylor ● 43d

Re the French this point was raised on radio 4 but the answer came that Keir has a better relationship with the French than Rishi seriously  😂😂😂😂🤔Labour currently come across as ‘rabbits in the headlights’ Europe was gone to the right and that’s in part because of illegal immigration with all the challenges that it brings. If Labour don’t get a grip now the UK will continue to be seen as a soft touch and the problem will get worse very quickly and the extreme right will continue to rise and none of us want that, it will end up with civil unrest.

Jayne Thorburn ● 43d

First act, Starmer scraps the Rwanda policy which makes it nice and easy for Germany to process their immigrants by utilising the structure set up and paid for by the British taxpayer. Nice move Sir Keir (not).The Rwanda plan did have a deterrent effect, proved by the exodus from mainland England to Ireland when immigrants thought the Rwanda plan was on. It would have been had Labour not put forward every amendment possible to deter its progress.Now come Xmas we will be left with 100k refugees with nowhere to go, because Labour has taken them out of our hotels and barges.And where are they going to go? In Council houses of course. That will surely rile our own people searching for the same.As for Yvette's big plan "to smash the gangs", as pointed out in the previous post, Rishi has tried that with the French and got nowhere.

Denis I. Fox ● 43d

Listening to a political programme on radio 4 Labour are making claims about what they are doing re illegal immigration that has been in place for years they must think we are all idiots 😂😂😂

Jayne Thorburn ● 43d

Angela Rayner attacked the Tories for reviewing winter payments 😂😂😂 Labour and her in particular can not be trusted they are not truthful with the electorate.

Jayne Thorburn ● 43d

It is appalling that Labour are leaking so many tax rises before the budget, Labour don’t seem to appreciate that they sold the voters on a growth strategy yet everything so far appears to be attacking every element of society. I haven’t read anything about economic growth has anyone else?

Jayne Thorburn ● 46d

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13806419/angela-rayner-council-tax-exemption-labour-party.html.

Steve Taylor ● 46d

And before the pedants drop their supper buttered crumpets, he ended up with 6 days, after that is, the stainless steel kettle of democracy Nicola Sturgeon had dubbed him a ‘tin pot dictator’

Russell Pearson ● 47d

> prorogation of parliament that our former PM Boris Johnson attempted to get implemented back in September 2019?I recall he did, and there was a right bellowing of hypocrisy, with predictions of Boris as El Ducky. Was hilarious.

Russell Pearson ● 47d

"Andrew,we know where you sit." OK apology I dont know where you sit,i think i was thinking of another andrew.

Julian Pavey ● 47d

Are,back to the 14 yrs Andrew,we know where you sit. Il give you a tip 5 years is your limit and possibly expect a revolt the way this GVMT has started

Julian Pavey ● 47d

Out of interest Jayne, were you against the unlawful prorogation of parliament that our former PM Boris Johnson attempted to get implemented back in September 2019?That was a far more serious attempt to undermine ‘democracy’.If you did go on record as being against it, or were even opposed privately then good for you.

Andrew Jones ● 47d

Perfect example of how Labour are ignoring democracy they are not allowing a debate and vote on winter fuel payments being withdrawn this is just the start of a very slippery and dangerous road.

Jayne Thorburn ● 47d

I don’t think Rishi had much choice but Labour isn’t going to last if they continue along the path they are going. Unfortunately right now we don’t appear to have any credible opposition which is incredibly dangerous in a democracy.

Jayne Thorburn ● 47d

And Nigel of course.

Janice Evans ● 47d

Rishi chose the wrong time for an election.

Janice Evans ● 47d

It’s shocking after being unelectable for so long they have already shown why is a few short weeks. Do they not understand that the economy is finely balanced and actually we were doing OK, obviously more work to do but they appear to be trashing the hard work done after Covid. The net result everyone is going to suffer at a time when they should be encouraging business and the economy. If prices go up, unrealistic pay rises and increase in taxes they will destroy the fragile economy.

Jayne Thorburn ● 47d

Yep,its called austerity. A word labour loved But the better they all get back to work the better as silence is the order of the day so far

Julian Pavey ● 47d

Not now i think, but how about council tax cap rise taken away which councils want. Single person allowance taken away perhaps. Even scrapping the council tax bands as we know it. Hold the front page

Julian Pavey ● 47d

Not that many did.

Keith Iddon ● 47d

I didn't vote for them

James Roy ● 47d

It appears that business confidence has plummeted since Labour announced their negative position and looming tax rises, no surprise there whatever happened to their growth strategy?

Jayne Thorburn ● 47d

Now that’s a 2 tier system.RR is already facing a backlash re winter fuel allowance apparently there are 880,000 pensions who are eligible for pension credit that are not claiming it, if the government know this why do pensioners have to apply, the government should automatically enrol them…..so far Labour are a poor excuse for a government and if the leaks are anyway close to the truth god help us all. Far from being a breath of fresh air…..disaster is just round the corner.

Jayne Thorburn ● 48d

Westminster and prisonsVery good point keith

Julian Pavey ● 49d

Yes,on Newsnight last night there was a discussion about current poll rating,where the Labour spokesman tried to shrug it off as insignificant,which was another sign of the way they are disconnected from many imo.I wonder if mp's will still be able to smoke in the HoC which afaik is the case,Westminster being a palace and prisons and palaces were  exempt from day one of the smoking legistlation restricting smoking.

Keith Iddon ● 49d

Listening to various radio stations early this morning the man of the moment and his party will soon be scraping the barrell. Approval ratings have plumeted and we have not even got to the budget. Oh,smoking ban in pub gardens etc,not one dickie bird on that one before the election. Not that i smoke but a bad move me thinks based on get togethers and £s spent on running up 4 figure tabs. Come the summer it wont be the pub garden,its will be our own gardens. What next to run our lives.

Julian Pavey ● 49d

Like most governments they target those who can't really fight back,save for a vote every 5 years,and capitulate to the one's who can.All governments have sat back and watched as the likes of Amazon,Google and Starbucks have body swervedtheir tax liabilities for decades.If yyou do that as an individual,theyu are all over you like a cheap suit.

Keith Iddon ● 49d

True but come the next election democracy will prevail so Labour need to be very careful, the economy is very finely balanced and if RR goes too far left of centre then everyone will suffer from the ‘hard working people’ whatever that means to those with broad shoulders whatever that means. There is one area they could target and that is the global corporates who are not paying their fair share, if these companies want to hide their profits through complex tax structures because they can then the simple option would be to charge them a 1/2 or 1% tax on all sales in the UK. Most if not all generate huge revenues from the country and there would be no need to target any tax rises on people which are already at an all time high. RR has one chance if she blows it Labour will be in the wilderness again for decades. Remember a lot of younger people have never known a Labour government and they will lose them. I guess the real issue is how much damage they do in the meantime.

Jayne Thorburn ● 49d

Of course there aren’t. Once you have a majority of more than 50 you don’t really even need whips because you’re no longer running a democracy.

Steve Taylor ● 50d

The more I think about it,the more I realise that there are no difficult decisions for this government to make as it has a majority that is far to big for a healthy representative democracy and can virtually do as it pleases IMO.

Keith Iddon ● 50d

Things that should read.

Janice Evans ● 51d

Don't think speculation, they will do hings they always have, just trying to understand the logic.

Janice Evans ● 51d

Groans, cries and howlings - and all on the basis of pure speculation! Can the reality be worse?

Robert Fish ● 51d

Unfunded promises like compensation for farmers because of flooding due to unprecedented rainfall and scandals such as pensions and benefits underpayments, contaminated blood etc etc...

Philippa Bond ● 51d

I never understand that either.

Janice Evans ● 51d

Those that are fortunate enough to have plenty of money are looking to leave the UK so zero ££££ collected when will Labour understand that higher taxes on those with ‘broad shoulders’ actually generates less ££££ so they will go after those who are not at the top of the financial ladder and don’t have the option. I think it is outrageous that any government can change tax regime and make it retrospective, think the time could come when there is a class action against the government if what is being leaked is true. They are looking more like old Labour left wing policies as each day passes. Don’t they understand the basics wealth creation supports a growth economy…..😱😱😱

Jayne Thorburn ● 51d

Capital Gains Tax hike a very likely target. But what they’ll get will be somewhat offset by what the FT has dubbed a ‘frenzy’ of sell offs by those wealthy enough to enjoy such lucre. Daft muppets gave them too much notice of the raid, so they’ll need to tax poorer people more now.

Russell Pearson ● 51d

I think there is still a lingering whiff of the Gillian Duffy affair about Labour.

Keith Iddon ● 51d

Or time for hard working people to protest peacefully of course but Labour  don’t believe we have a voice

Jayne Thorburn ● 52d

Could be time for another general election ?

John Southey ● 52d

Many people who started off as working class like yours truly,can now be called middle class(shock horror!),if the old criteria of home ownership,foreign holidays,occupational pension etc.is still used.It's called aspiration,usually achieved by many years of perspiration.

Keith Iddon ● 52d

Sorry meant 25% corp tax which is high

Jayne Thorburn ● 52d

In 2023/24, UK government raised around £1,095 billion (£1.1 trillion) in receipts – income from taxes and other sources. This is equivalent to around 40% of the size of the UK economy, as measured by GDP, which is the highest level since the early 1980s.So 20 billion is small change and given all the tax rises already that have yet to filter through like 20% corporation tax, increase in income tax due to higher minimum wage etc, their story doesn’t add up.

Jayne Thorburn ● 52d

Let’s wait to see how ruthless they are going to be for those of us who work hard all our life, pay our fair share of tax and through our own achievements have achieved a relatively comfortable life. They may be different faces but they are sounding more like the old Labour Party. Blair took a very central path rather than left of centre and supported the whole of society when making decisions. I totally agree Steve many pensioners are just on the wrong side of this decision having worked all their life. Labour already getting it very wrong so will be interesting to see if they take a more measured approach in the budget. We already have very high taxes, Labour want growth then incentivise not punish people.

Jayne Thorburn ● 52d

They are absolute bastards. Interesting letter in the i today regarding the cancellation of the winter fuel allowance by Labour. “ They do not seem to understand that many people in receipt of the full state pension worked all their lives for it. Whereas, many people who chose not to work can now be looked after as usual.The difference in income between recipients of pension credit and a non-qualifying person may be pennies, but the former will be able to afford to heat their home, while the latter (on low pensions) may not. What a travesty of labour values when the Labour Party promised so much.”New Labour, New Austerity like you have never seen before!

Steve Taylor ● 52d

Talking the country down is absolutely not the right way to go, Keir fails to mention that all western economies are suffering the same as the UK due to huge costs associated with Covid. He talks in riddles the way to grow the economy is not through tax rises but incentives for growth. Leaders should inspire there was nothing inspirational about his speech. Giving into unions with large pay rises will affect inflation, taxing the workers in the middle bracket will mean less consumer spending, inflation is a killer for everyone. This sounds more like the race to the bottom not a growth strategy.

Jayne Thorburn ● 52d

Taxes up, rental property and income from it will be hit. If you sell , capital gains will not make it worthwhile. Middle class wealth will be attacked. Very tough times ahead.

John Southey ● 52d

Depends on what it’s spent on. This cut is a mistakehttps://ukquantum.org/uk-quantum-community-worried-about-labours-cuts-to-deep-tech-funding/

Russell Pearson ● 52d

Tax is what pays for stuff and makes everyone's quality of life better.

Peter Evans ● 52d

Tax rises. It's what Labour do.

Richard Greenhough ● 53d

Tax relief on private pension contributions limited to the standard rate? Reimposition of the lifetime allowance (at £1.5 million?)? Personally, I'd like to see a substantial increase in the personal allowance, with an offsetting increase in the basic rate of tax. Let's take the most badly paid and the poorest pensioners out of tax altogether. That would put an  end to the controversy over the winter fuel allowance.

Robert Fish ● 53d

Any bets on what’s in the October budget?

Russell Pearson ● 53d

" ...intentional avoidance of answering a question". It's what most MPs do for a living.

Brian Coyle ● 53d

What would be more 'honest' about that?

Anne England ● 55d

It's a well known art.

Janice Evans ● 55d

Been googling again?

Keith Iddon ● 55d

Keith, it's a rhetorical technique involving the intentional avoidance of answering a question.

Janice Evans ● 55d

I sometimes wonder whether it would be more honest of Yvette Cooper to use her married name. For anyone who might not know, her husband is Ed Balls.

Colin Jordan ● 55d

As to personal insults, you shouldn't be surprised or offended by them, coming as they do from people whose stock-in-trade is personal abuse. Why are they "so adept at personal abuse"? Lots of practice!Oh! Robert they do not offend me - been around the block too often for that! Thank-you.

Vanessa Smith ● 55d

“ an interview with a Labour spokesman,I didn't catch his name,who spent the 6 or 7 minutes that were left of the interview talking and saying absolutely nothing of any substance whatsoever.”Well he has taken the lead from Yvette Cooper who is famous for saying nothing  of any substance.

Steve Taylor ● 55d

That waffle by our representatives is still alive and flourishing,despite the change of faces in power.I just caught the back end of an interview with a Labour spokesman,I didn't catch his name,who spent the 6 or 7 minutes that were left of the interview talking and saying absolutely nothing of any substance whatsoever.'Meet the new boss,same as the old boss..'

Keith Iddon ● 55d

Janice,try thinking inside the box for a change.

Keith Iddon ● 55d

Challenging for everybody surely? Unless of course you are sufficiently well off and you can ride the 'challenging winter' without too many problems?

Brian Coyle ● 55d

I was thinking outside the box (again)

Janice Evans ● 55d

I don't see how the Ukraine situation conflates with this.Possibly only in your world,Janice.20 odd % of the votes equals 63% of Parliamentary seats.Go figure.

Keith Iddon ● 55d

Well given they are govening on around 20% of the country but noted its around 30|% of the vote,they have plummeted in ratings and are only weeks into the job.Expect either a tory u turn on pensioners and tory chaos within to come over the next 12 months.

Julian Pavey ● 55d

True, but then they are still supporting Ukraine which is what I really wantedso cannot complain.

Janice Evans ● 55d

Haven't you heard that the NHS is in crisis and the last thing they want is more older people to accomodate as it goes against good practise to discharge them to a home that is dangerous for them?That's one of the things that will happen if some older people don't receive this payment,hospital referrals will increase and so will visits to gp's,if they can get a appointment that is.It's a dog's dinner of a policy,brought out far too quickly and with no regard to the increase in energy costs in October.It's the type of policy that woukd have had the Tories labelled 'The Nasty Party'.

Keith Iddon ● 55d

Love to know where the personal insults are.?If you want personal insults i can allways dig back and copy and paste.I think that goes for many ? Does it not

Julian Pavey ● 55d

if they are feeling cold they should make their way to the Hospital then they will know who needs help with heating, drastic but better than freezing to death.

Janice Evans ● 55d

I have no doubt that there are many pensioners who do not need the payment nor are they particuarly bothered about receiving it.Why is there not an 'opt out'facility on the scheme?Or pay it on a sliding scale that is not linked to benefits.Surely it might be better to try first to minimise the difficulties it will cause.

Keith Iddon ● 55d

Obviously 4,950 were huddled up with no heating.

Janice Evans ● 55d

From the Guardian “ the MoneySavingExpert founder said the government should base support on council tax bands, which are linked to the value of properties. His proposals would limit the winter fuel allowance to those in the A to D bands, which apply to the least valuable homes. “That would raise eligibility above just those who are on pension credit,” Lewis said.“I have to say it is an imperfect solution, but it is a workable, quick solution, and I’m due to be meeting Rachel Reeves in a couple of weeks on various issues, and I will certainly be pushing that idea to them.”Reeves’s ending of universal winter fuel allowance applied only to England and Wales, but Scotland has followed suit and also limited the payments.Rachael Maskell, the Labour MP for York Central and the chair of the all-party parliamentary group on ageing and older people, also called for a review of the policy, noting that 4,950 people died because of cold homes last year”

Steve Taylor ● 55d

A good riposte to your antagonists, Vanessa. I agree with everything you say about pensions reform. As to personal insults, you shouldn't be surprised or offended by them, coming as they do from people whose stock-in-trade is personal abuse. Why are they "so adept at personal abuse"? Lots of practice!

Robert Fish ● 55d

A decent minimum wage level should be next.

Keith Iddon ● 55d

“ Better still, a good hard root and branch review that brings state pension into line with other countries would allow everyone to pay their way without the complications of extra form filling.”Totally agree. And Martin Lewis’s idea which he will bring up again when he talks to Rachel Reeves next week.

Steve Taylor ● 55d

Why is it that both you and Mr. Pavey are so adept at personal insults? I am quite happy to have a sensible and reasoned debate (sorry - open my 'big mouth'!) with anyone, is this just a teeny hint of misogyny creeping in? For information I read two daily newspapers the 'i' and The Mirror  - oh dear both tabloids, but on Sunday it's The Sunday Times and The Observer and Mirror, also I subscribe to 'Private Eye'. I  make no secret of the fact that my political support is by and large with the Labour party. However, even when a member there were things that I could not agree with - let alone support. I have not voted Labour in the last two local elections because I doubt the commitment and understanding of local politics and Labour party principles that has been on display. But, where the new government is concerned I do broadly agree with their plans. I think the withdrawal of the Fuel Allowance except for the people that qualify for it  was bound to be unpopular, but there are also many of us this affects who realise that younger people are finding things difficult too, so really we all need to think about how any government money is raised and distributed. There are a considerable number of pensioners who chose to move abroad to warmer countries, why should they get a fuel allowance? Also many with a decent private pension who will admit they really do not rely on it. Not all retired people are sitting huddled round a couple of sticks wrapped in a shawl. The thing now is to ensure all those that do qualify for Pension Credit  claim what they are entitled to, and also understand this is NOT charity and there are many more benefits that are on offer once you qualify for this one. Better still, a good hard root and branch review that brings state pension into line with other countries would allow everyone to pay their way without the complications of extra form filling. I am sure that the government will p*ss me off at some stage - that's life, but after 14 years of graft, lies, cronyism and sheer chaos, I am so glad this household voted Labour last month.

Vanessa Smith ● 55d

'Who controls the past controls the future'.

Keith Iddon ● 55d

Oh s**t I got it wrong. Its the labour party thats gunning for the hard working public. Who would have thought that? And if you are angry,well you cant protest or tweet your feelings because the fear is you get locked up for 12 months so even the peaceful protesters are not going to take any chances. We have you in control

Julian Pavey ● 55d

Have you got the latest scoop. Rishi sunak was given free suits worth thousands of pounds from a tory donor and guess what ? Rishi gave the donor a free all access pass to N010 because he donated £500,000 to the conservative party. Venessa will be going mad over this. Oh,and the conservatives who had no idea until from day one that the financial coffers were worse than they thought the previous day before the election have now said "things will get worse before they get worse" They are calling it austerity. The tories are basicaly saying that if you work hard your going to get hit bad. And the harder you work the worse it will get for you. Typical tories.

Julian Pavey ● 55d

“ Where do you get these far-fetched rants from?”Surprised at you, Vanessa. As you are such a big mouth on most issues I thought you would at least be keeping up with what your beloved government is doing regarding finances, austerity etc. Clue - try reading newspapers. Not tabloids mind you!!

Steve Taylor ● 55d

He's the Donald Trump of the Chiswick / Ealing forums, infact if you were bothered to ask him you would find that  Trump  also hates cyclists , it seems to be a right wing trait.

David Burke ● 56d

Lucky its not under a CON banner otherwise venessa would be kicking and punching with tasty words. Funny old world politics My thoughts,its only been weeks and the likes of the guardian and attacking them. When that happens you know things are not good

Julian Pavey ● 56d

'She screwed uk pensioners so that she can increase foreign aid.'Where do you get these far-fetched rants from?

Vanessa Smith ● 56d

It wasn’t a difficult decision. It was a pre planned vindictive decision to screw pensioners immediately, with obscene haste, without even waiting for the budget. She screwed uk pensioners so that she can increase fore