Forum Topic

Costs to residents of the proposed Glebe conservation area

The residents of the Glebe Estate currently have Permitted Development rights, which mean we can alter and improve our homes without planning permission and in the way we choose. Hounslow council want to take away our Permitted Development rights and instead make us pay more for improvements to the exterior of our homes. Michael Gove wants to give homeowners the right to use all their loft space and build wrap around rear extensions, yet Hounslow Council want to take our rights away. Last time a consultation was held there was considerable opposition and 82 people signed a petition against the Glebe Estate becoming a conservation area but Hounslow have ignored us again. Have your say by the 30th March at Section 13 of  https://placemaker.hounslow.urbanintelligence.co.uk/p/document/4Or email:-  alexander.de@hounslow.gov.ukFYI - the Council does not actually ask if you support the Conservation Area designationThere is also a change.org petition at https://chng.it/7hJqKhBmtPPlanning permission in conservation areas costs £258.00 for what is now FREE in the Glebe Estate. In addition to the fees Hounslow Planning will restrict what you can do:-1) replacing / upgrading doors and windows Hounslow want expensive conservation grade timber windows2) changing the colour of a painted house (this may be refused)3) removing, building or improving front walls and fences Hounslow Council wants metal railings4) changing / increasing garden paving and tiled front paths5) bins stores and bicycle sheds  6) the enlargement, improvement or alteration of your houseHounslow want to stop infilling side returnsHounslow is unlikely to let you use all the space in your loft as recently proposed by Mr Gove7) Infilling a porch8) solar panels9) changing roofing materialnatural slate is a lot more expensive than alternativesAll but the smallest trees (stem size less than 75mm (3”) and 1.5m (4.9ft.) tall) will require 6 weeks notice to the council for approval of pruning. In a cost of living crisis Hounslow Council do not considered the planning fees and additional architectural and material costs “a deterrent or impediment to home expansion or improvement.”The House of Commons Library says:“Constituents living in conservation areas and listed buildings may discover that it can be difficult to obtain planning permission for common domestic projects such as energy efficiency improvements.”Building work will cost you more money and time as architects and builders will justify their higher fees / costs because of the additional bureaucracy. Hounslow council will ask for planning drawings, heritage statements, fire risk assessments (even for replacement windows) and in some cases material samples for the most basic of things like changing fences and windows, or re-roofing. None of this was explained in the Hounslow Council leaflet.

Ann Lond ● 345d8 Comments

Thank you for your detailed reply. The Council “factually correct” leaflet sent to us on the 12th March 2024 sets out the Council’s objectives for the Glebe Estate conservation area:-“Unsympathetic alterations, such as: large porches; unsympathetic windows and doors; loss of boundary walls; and unsympathetic extensions are more challenging to control outside of Conservation Areas as the council are not able to apply their preserve or enhance tests related to the character and appearance.”The Council cannot achieve these objectives and stop large porchesunsympathetic windows and doorssome types of unsympathetic extensions (eg up to 3 metre single storey)UNLESS they impose an Article 4 direction. Porches fall under Class D, windows and doors fall under minor alterations and 3m single storey extensions fall under Class A which are all allowed in conservation areas. Please see the The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015. After a consultation to impose an Article 4 the Council ONLY have to publicise it by inserting a notice in a local newspaper and serving it on every owner and occupier in a home affected by it.It is not for Hounslow Council to determine what permitted development rights will be removed in a conservation area, unless they impose an Article 4 direction. The homes in the Glebe conservation area would be classed as on Article 2(3) land, this designation is what will remove our permitted development rights. The Council meeting minutes of the 12th December set out some (but not all) of the minor home improvements that require planning permission in all conservation areas (without an Article 4).https://democraticservices.hounslow.gov.uk/documents/s188616/Further public consultation on the proposed designation of the Glebe Estate as a Conservation Area.pdfIt is unfortunate that the appraisal document does not describe everything that will and won’t be permitted, so that all the Glebe Estate residents can make a fully informed decision. Hounslow set out in their guidelines what they will permit in Conservation areas for loft conversions, velux windows and rear extensions; see page 38 and 39 https://www.hounslow.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/395/residential_extension_guidelines.pdfHounslow’s Planning Dept. don’t like large dormers even in non-conservation areas (page 32) but they can’t stop them being built. Hounslow note as a threat in their appraisal “Demand for enlargement, especially INFILLING SIDE RETURNS and roof extensions”Everyone can make up their own mind whether the planning department will apply unique and less strict guidelines in the Glebe Estate compared to those in the 26 conservation areas in the borough. I’m not sure exactly what “The PRINCIPLE of large extensions is likely to be acceptable in PRINCIPLE in conservation terms.” really means in practice. It will be up to the Planning Officer at the time to decide.  If you don’t want Hounslow to take away your rights - Write to either Conservation@hounslow.gov.uk  or alexander.de@hounslow.gov.ukSection 13 of the Appraisal document has some questions but there is no where to object  https://placemaker.hounslow.urbanintelligence.co.uk/p/document/4Also please sign the petition against the conservation area at https://chng.it/nCbfKpm7rS. 

Ann Lond ● 331d

In regards to restrictions, some of the points made do not appear to be correct. There are no plans to restrict or refuse points 1, 2 or 6, as below (taken from the draft appraisal available from https://talk.hounslow.gov.uk/glebe-estate-conservation-area-appraisal )"The Glebe Estate is considered to be an exception in the regard of roof extensions, in that large (non-conservation area permitted development rear) roof extensions are common and have not proved detrimental to character. The remaining non-listed houses that do not have roof extensions will not be expected to build smaller conservation area style roof extensions should their occupants or owners decide they wish to extend in the roof post designation as a conservation area....In the same light, while uPVC windows are not encouraged, they will not be resisted, and indeed do not need planning permission either in or out of conservation areas, unless the general aperture size and frame arrangements are changed. Finally nobody with existing painted brickwork will be expected to remove it and will be allowed to repaint it in a similar colour as at the time as designation of the Estate as a conservation area without the need for planning permission. "Points 3, 4 and 9 are covered under the "Opportunities" and appear, from context, to be desirable rather than enforced (as part of the SWOT analysis of the Estate). There is no mention in the draft guidelines in regards to solar panels. It also doesn't mention "natural" slate in regards to roofing material.However, as others have mentioned, there are rightful concerns that this could lead to more onerous supervision of the properties via Article 4 Direction. I would also like to know what Hounslow Council will be doing on their end to preserve the unique characteristics of the Glebe Estate, having chopped down trees with abandon, installed near useless LED lamposts and removed paving slabs in favour of cheap poured concrete.I would strongly suggest that Glebe Estate residents read the draft appraisal - if for no other reason than it has an excellent history of the estate, with maps! Additionally GERA (Glebe Estate Residents Association) members have recieved communication in relation to this proposal. Please join via https://www.glebew4.org.uk/ if you haven't already.

John Hannon ● 341d

Thanks for pointing this out Ann. Looks like more unwelcome meddling and restrictions and costs the residents can do without.

Michael Dempsey ● 343d

Thank you. Please can you make your neighbours aware of this as the Council leaflet said nothing about the restrictions they will impose on us.  A man in a Putney conservation area  has posted on Nextdoor expressing his frustration at trying to upgrade his drafty sash windows. He is still trying to get planning permission and has been repeatedly asked for a “Fire Risk Assessment” - madness!

Ann Lond ● 344d

'twas ever thus. "We will dictate what you can't do, don't ask us to do anything".  When did local councils stop listening?

N V Brooks ● 344d

I omitted the following item re potential Article 4 Directive on Glebe Estate:"PaintingPlanning Permission will be required for change of colour, or to paint an area of the building that is not already painted. Planning Permission will NOT be required for repainting the same colour or a similar shade."So i cannot change my Million pound house colour, ever, without a permit?  Just Council diktat.If you want to control the area, then sweep the Streets, pick up the Glebe Street litter, and all the tree branches in the street; clip the wretched over-large Lime trees.You do your job please and I'll do mine.

Peter Crowther ● 345d

Thank you Ann.  I had not realised the onerous terms.  They are dictatorial.As Bedford Park conservation area has had a "Article 4 Direction" since 2001 this means that, for example, Glebe Estate risks the following Article 4 Terms.  I quote:-Front Walls and Gardens:'Removing a front garden wall, fence, gate or railings will require Planning Permission. The construction of new hardstanding, new concrete area or paving stones will also require Planning Permission.The removal of original fences, walls, hedges, gates, tessellated tiles, or other such feature will be resisted. Also :  'The Direction means that MOST building work or alterations that affect the appearance of a building and its surroundings NEEDS Planning Permission.    Therefore “like-for-like” repairs or replacement, will not need Planning Permission.    For example, where a fence needs replacing and it is a replica design, shape, height, material and form; this will not need Planning Permission.  Where a new design or material is proposed this WILL require Planning Permission.'Ask yourself, just when, exactly, do you ever replace something like a fence that is exactly the same as the old item.  No change to the design, nor the shape, nor the height, nor the Material nor the form: Think about it.The whole point of replacing anything is to create something better, brighter, a slightly different design or otherwise improved in some way or fashion ! ??Thank goodness Dale Street etc. has the good sense to properly moderate themselves.    We should not let Hounslow interfere more than necessary.

Peter Crowther ● 345d

Ann, you may have already done so but if not may I suggest you arrange a door to door letter drop so residents know what they are in for.Good luck.

Adrian Irving ● 345d