Forum Topic

Article on incident outside M&S

This article here: http://www.chiswickw4.com/default.asp?section=info&page=conaccident169.htmApart from being difficult to read grammatically, it basically implies that the bike lane somehow caused this whole incident. ‘The ambulance had some difficulty in departing due to congestion on the High Road. A fire engine was also driving in the direction of Hammersmith using the bike lane.’ I somehow doubt that a fire engine was driving up the bike lane, as a vehicle of that size couldn’t fit in the bike lane, let alone this being wildly dangerous. Although if such an event did happen, I struggle to see how it affects the departure of an ambulance outside M&S, what with the bike lane being on the other side of the road.I find it hard to believe this article is just lazily written and wonder if it was penned by some anti-cycling person?

Edward Kent ● 384d99 Comments

So you keep on reducing it.  Csn you imagine having to go back to having someone with a flag walking in front of each car to warn of the danger?https://gca.org/5-ways-wetlands-are-crucial-to-climate-change-adaptation/#:~:text=Wetlands%20capture%20CO₂%20from%20the,as%20all%20the%20world's%20forests.

Philippa Bond ● 377d

“ when you hear lots of cars hooting their horns, that's often drivers releasing their stress! It certainly doesn't achieve much else.”Totally agree with you on that. Those drivers need to take a deep breath and meditate a little. It’s easy enough in a comfortable aircon’d car. And it sure beats being on a bike breathing polluted air and worrying when you are going to get hit by a truck or have a pedestrian step out in front of you. BTW I love cycling and motorcycling but there’s a time and place and it isn’t in polluted cities.

Steve Taylor ● 378d

Yes, if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.

David Burke ● 378d

Yes, If you are out and about in your car and in the queue of traffic and moaning about the traffic - you need to remember that you ARE the traffic!

Philippa Bond ● 378d

Steve, you may be able to drive stress free, and laugh off those little irritations etc. so good for you, and I really try to do that as getting stressed doesn't ordinarily achieve anything, but day to day I see plenty of stressed drivers.I've got friends who just won't drive in London because they find it too manic.I get what you are saying but nice, heated, aircon'd car doesn't automatically mean a stress free trip for all drivers ... when you hear lots of cars hooting their horns, that's often drivers releasing their stress! It certainly doesn't achieve much else.

Andrew Jones ● 378d

Hi Maggie,There are plenty of pluses for me, here's a list that I'm sure isn't complete, but will give you a flavour:Enables me to visit family in the countryside where there isn't public transport provision, and stop to take in the scenery, countryside villages, pubs etc.When the weather isn't great it's nicer than being out in all elements.I can carry a lot more stuff with me in a car.I work long days, so even if there is public transport provision I don't eat so much into my rest time as I would otherwise.I have a lot of early starts/late finishes, public transport less frequent/convenient at these times.I worry less about the security of my car than I would about the security of my bike.

Andrew Jones ● 378d

Philippa, I’m not sure I understand your points. I don’t have an issue with change as long as it’s for the better,  which is the only reason I can see for spending huge sums of money. The changes in Chiswick are without doubt detrimental. It is the cycle lobby who are tunnel visioned, you being one of them I anssume although u don’t recall you ever mentioning it. I think of you as recycling obsessed as is my daughter.  Are you talking about the cyclist who wanted a lorry to reverse rather than move out of the lorry’s path? The LTNs caused lorries  to end up in narrow streets in Chiswick I believe . I’ve  found places that aren’t over run and ruled by cyclists and they are much happier places,  where shops are thriving. A good range of shops and yes a very large car oark !  They haven’t changed to accommodate cyclists because there’s nothing to stop cyclists. They have invested in keeping things clean and repaired. Some people know.  if it ain’t broke don’t try and fix it

Maggie Dodge ● 378d

Maggie. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that it is wrong.  Just because something changes does not mean that it is wrong.  Just because you can't do something you want to doesn't mean that it is wrong.BTW GPS direction following large lorries are an absolute nightmare in the countryside where lorries try and go down tracks and very narrow and winding roads totally unsuitable for such large loads and need a lot of help to reverse let alone the help needed to redirect other traffic away from the area while they do. Just like has happened in Chiswick!

Philippa Bond ● 378d

It's inevitable that bike sales are declining because there has been so much press and, dare I say, comments on this forum about the increase of cyclist injuries and even deaths. It seems that cycling is becoming an extremely dangerous mode of transport both in cities and on country lanes. It will get worse because cyclists are getting more and more aggressive as they break the law with impunity.

Steve Taylor ● 379d

Talk of the devil. Professor Aldred,  conclusion of a 5 year studyConclusionsActive travel interventions provided high value for money when comparing health economic benefits from physical activity to costs of scheme implementation, particularly low traffic neighbourhoods.

Maggie Dodge ● 379d

Not sure about sales but one easy to google is the number of bike manufactureres and retailers going bust or into administration. Or big price reductions due to stock not shifting.Overstocks and cash flow problems after high demands are one of the reasons.

Julian Pavey ● 379d

Which one Councillor Lambert?  I’ve posted a few? Be more specific. I can say it will be a legitimate source unlike some of your cycle lobby chums quoting Professor Aldred etc. Remember you’re a Councillor too and mind your manners

Maggie Dodge ● 379d

"Where did you pick up this ridiculously biased story"?All over the press.https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2024/02/09/bicycle-association-seeks-government-support-to-halt-continuum-of-decline-as-uk-cycle-sales-slump-to-39-year-low/?sh=7348d115d939https://road.cc/content/news/2023-saw-worst-bicycle-sales-uk-1985-306667

Adrian Irving ● 379d

Where did you pick up this ridiculously biased story, Maggie?"The market has shown some signs of improvement during the course of 2023; however progress has been uneven. Adult mechanical bike sales were stronger during H2 2023, with volumes up 6% versus H2 2022.""While the first few months of 2024 are expected to be difficult, volumes are forecast to grow in the low to mid-single digits between 2024 to 2026. There are two key reasons for this. Firstly, trends over the second half of 2023 showed adult bike volumes and e-bike volumes improving versus 2022. Secondly, the macroeconomic picture is expected to improve incrementally (from a low base) during 2024.""Any faster recovery of cycling market growth is likely to be dependent on a step-change in government investment in cycling infrastructure, and the type of policy interventions proposed in Bicycle Association’s UK Cycle Industry Manifesto.The Manifesto sets out the industry’s policy requests across a wide range of areas. Specifically, it highlights three ‘quick win policy’ asks for Government: a national e-bike subsidy scheme; zero VAT on children’s cycles; and securing funding for growing the UK cycle industry’s capacity to innovate. The BA will continue to advocate these policies and the strategic approach set out in the Manifesto over the coming year, in the run-up to the UK General Election and beyond."Just read it and read the direct quotes I identified, rather than making up negative stories. It's clear sales are well down since the pandemic boon - hardly a surprise because it was extremely difficult to buy any bike during the lockdown - but the report clearly says they are improving, and expected the recovery to gain more momentum, whether there is any government changes or not.https://www.bicycleassociation.org.uk/news-press/ba-2023-annual-market-report-confirms-worst-mechanical-bike-sales-this-century-but-predicts-return-to-growth-in-2024/

Guy Lambert ● 379d

"2023 saw the worst bicycle sales in the UK since 1985," Hardly surprising after the boom in sales a slump is inevitable.Also why buy when you can jump on a Lime or the like. Plus once you have bought a bicycle it's going to be many years before it will need replacing.

Adrian Irving ● 379d

2023 saw the worst bicycle sales in the UK since 1985, reveals Bicycle Association reportThe bike industry organisation has warned a “long-term continuum of decline is likely without Government intervention”Why should the Government intervene and how?  Pay people to cycle? Free cycling lessons plus, free servicing, free lights from the Met. Nothing is working. Give

Maggie Dodge ● 379d

“ but stress free it ain’t unless you adopt the right mental attitude”But that’s the point I try to make. If you are in the comfort of your heated, or aircon’d, SAFE car, protected from pollution, it’s easy to adopt the right mental attitude and laugh off the little irritations you may endure due to other drivers, or pedestrians, or cyclists irresponsible or downright stupid, actions. In the meantime it’s good to see Wales doing phenomenally well at half time. Hope they can maintain the impetus.

Steve Taylor ● 381d

Why do you drive Andrew? List the pluses for you if you will

Maggie Dodge ● 381d

It can certainly be more comfortable, but I disagree with you about it being stress free.Two instances of stress I can think of in just the last two days … my turning right out of my road in front of a car that was indicating left and slowing down, ahh, apparently the left indicator didn’t mean they wanted to go left, and then they got very stressed, waving their hands around because I was blocking where theywanted to go.And my stress yesterday at the pointedness of the driver who drove up right to where the vehicle in front had stopped for temporary lights showing red, thus blocking my way through at the crossroad I was waiting to cross. Probably not deliberate, just not thinking.And the stress of worrying about bus lanes, etc. etc. etc.I enjoy the challenge of driving through London, but stress free it ain’t unless you adopt the right mental attitude

Andrew Jones ● 381d

Of course it’s FAILED. People want to use their cars. That’s why the MV industry is responded to demand and manufacturing bigger and better cars and SUVs. Safe, stress free travel. Cycling is dangerous and stressful. You are constantly worried about being hit by a car or colliding with a pedestrian or having the stress of having a vehicle riding up your bum if you are riding on the road. You also have the stress of being abused by other cyclists if you are not riding fast enough on a cycle track. There is absolutely no relaxation in cycling in London or any city. It’s astounding some people still put themselves through all the pain. Blood pressures must be soaring. More stress on the NHS!!!

Steve Taylor ● 381d

The traffic counters are said to not record slow moving traffic.

Maggie Dodge ● 381d

Jayne, there are counters recording traffic on  Chiswick High Road 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and they don't care what you think,  They are recording that there are already more cyclists than cars during morning peak times just a year after C9 has been opened.Cycle trips in London are currently one third of tube trips.  The money spent on cycling infrastructure is a tiny fraction of the investment required for the tube so you shouldn't be surprised why TfL will continue to invest in bike lanes - they are such good value for money.You seem to be part of the older generation who just don't appreciate how things have changed,

Michael Robinson ● 382d

You’re telling me about where I can park in Chiswick. I’ve lived here 70 years 😂👍

Maggie Dodge ● 382d

Sorry Jayne but everybody has seen the data showing that Cycleway9 has been hugely successful in increasing cycling numbers on Chiswick High Road and King Street. And yes in the winter because cyclists are tougher than drivers. You really must try harder.

Paul Campbell ● 382d

Embankment makes sense chiswick high road doesn’t, it’s ill thought out, expect for a few people it is empty most of the day so as I say a complete waste we have so many far more pressing and worthy causes that need our money.

Jayne Thorburn ● 382d

Interest in cycling drops as councils spend millions on bike lanes and LTNsGovernment post-pandemic schemes tried to reduce car use and boost cycle numbers FAIL

Maggie Dodge ● 382d

Yes. When you play chess with pigeons they stomp around the board tossing pieces left and right and crapping all over it.

Paul Campbell ● 382d

Nf3

Mark Frost ● 382d

The City of London has NEVER been popular for motorists.

Steve Taylor ● 382d

Try to keep up Jayne. Cycling is increasing where investment in safe cycling infrastructure is happening and decreasing where it is not. The CS3 cycle lane on the Embankment has been recording 8000+ bike journeys every day through January this year. It increases every year. The Conservative removal of funding from the rest of the UK is helping to make the case for more cycling infrastructure  in London. Open your eyes and your mind. Just because you are too wimpy to put on a coat and ride a bike in winter doesn't mean everyone is.

Paul Campbell ● 382d

Given our climate it is never going to happen who would want to cycle in winter, no one is other than a few. So a complete waste of money that could have been spent on far more deserving causes. I tend to walk in London or catch PT. No need to destroy our roads that are not fit for purpose. The poor blind chap that got completely disoriented by the bus island, having to cross a cycle lane to get to the pavement. You really couldn’t do a worse job if you tried……good old TFL. Sort out the tube network far more productive, stop wasting tax payer money on vanity projects and LTN’s.

Jayne Thorburn ● 382d

London continues to invest in cycling infrastructure while the conspiracy theorist SoS for Transport cuts Active Travel funding for the rest of the UK and rejects any calls to improve rail serves by saying he isn't running the Department for Trains and that most people need to use cars. The Conservative government is locking people outside of London into car dependency. The difference in cycling growth between London and the rest of the UK shows the impact of cycle lanes and LTNs. They make cycling safer and more attractive for more people so more people do it. London is not dependent on the Active Travel budget set by Mark Harper. Hence why we see more and more cycle lanes and LTNs here while Local Authorities outside of London are starved of funding. Londoners who look with envy at the impact of the government's pro-car policies in the rest of the UK are not going to get what they hope for here.

Paul Campbell ● 382d

Cycling UK has released a scathing criticism of the UK Government's active travel policies after a Public Accounts Committee report (link is external) showed that the Government is not on track to meet objectives to increase rates of active travel, and that not enough has been done with the £2.3 billion in taxpayers' money to understand and implement cycling infrastructure which will have a long-lasting impact.

Maggie Dodge ● 382d

Well how odd that everything I read says cycling is declining , I suppose it depends which head we’ve got on

Maggie Dodge ● 382d

Thanks Ed.

Andrew Jones ● 382d

The core data for the DOT report comes from the National Travel Survey - and TFL gets its data from the same source.However, TFL also collects a lot of data specifically about London - much of it published in the annual Travel in London reports.

Ed Saper ● 382d

A large McCycle lane meal deal please.Luscious chicken strips coated in venomous breadcrumbs, char grilled to a gridlock with spicy pavement fries.And to drink madam, might I suggest a bi-directional coffee with a floating bus stop.

Mark Frost ● 382d

Thanks Ed. Do you know if the figures you quoted came from the same DOT report/publication referred to by Maggie?

Andrew Jones ● 382d

That's the figure for England.  Cycling in London is up in 2023 vs 2022.Wiki has some statistics (from TFL) for London:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_London#Statistics"The number of daily bicycle journeys in London has increased by 314% since the 1990s, from 270,000 daily journeys in 1993 to 1,118,000 in 2022. Jan-Aug 2023 has an average 1,172,000 daily journeys (5% increase on 2022 and 7% decrease on 2020)"There are various other stats from TFL: - Cycling Stages 2023 up 20% on 2019, but down 5% on 2020. - Miles cycled in London has increased 53% between 2017 and 2022.They all point to more people in London cycling, doing more trips and miles...but not quite as much as in 2020 when there was a lot less traffic and nobody wanted to catch COVID on public transport.

Ed Saper ● 382d

I'm ignoring bits that weren't relevant to the original issue I raised with Steve. He made a statement, and I asked him to come up with some data supporting his statement.He didn't.I've explained how I want to stick to the point I was discussing/debating.You came up with some data (from the DOT) that I said I accepted, but, not knowing what report or publication it was contained in, I sought some clarification whether it related specifically to London.If it does, then that would be a surprise to me, but I haven't rejected the possibility that it might. One thing I definately haven't done is to ignore.

Andrew Jones ● 382d

No you are ignoring the bits you don’t like. I’ve only read your first sentence

Maggie Dodge ● 382d

Maggie,I'm trying to stick to the point I made about Steve's post and concentrate on actual 'data' rather than anecdotes.What happens on threads in this forum is that people bring up "what about" posts which serve to deliberately or perhaps unintentionally steer the thread away from the point being discussed. The original point ends up getting lost and drowned in a series of posts showing differences of opinion about something else.For what it's worth, yes, it would be good if air quality on the underground could be improved so that it was vastly better than the minimum legal requirements (which is what it looks to me that TfL are hiding behind when they answer questions about it). It would be informative to know how other Mass Transit underground systems in Europe compare.As for buses being held up by cycling infrastructure - the vehicles that are in the way and holding up buses, tend to be lorries, cars and other buses. Get rid of some of those cars and hey presto, the buses will flow more smoothly and be held up less.

Andrew Jones ● 382d

"2023 quote from Google"That's that sorted then.

Mark Frost ● 382d

I suggest you get your keyboard out Andrew. You’re not interested in anything I’m posting if it isn’t something you can mock or knock down. Anything to say about the Underground and buses being held up by cycling infrastructure ?

Maggie Dodge ● 382d

It is a stupid question because you didn't take into account the most significant factor affecting pollution - the number of polluting vehicles.This is about doing something in the real world, not in your imagination.Your second question is completely irrelevant because you are NEVER going to get smoothly flowing traffic on a street like CHR unless the volume of traffic is further reduced substantially.  Traffic lights are inherently "rob Peter to pay Paul" and only the most car brained would advocate removal of pedestrian crossings which also disrupt traffic flow.As I said, you need to give up this delusion that pollution can be reduced by tinkering around with traffic flow.  Even if there are improvements, these are only short term as it just attracts more drivers and back to square one.  I appreciate this delusion is very convenient for drivers as they can blame someone else for the pollution they are creating themselves. Pollution is reduced by reducing the number of polluting vehicles.

Michael Robinson ● 382d

Ok, happy to accept the DOT figures you quote - is that the figure for London?

Andrew Jones ● 382d

The phrase "cycling has dropped" doesn't qualify as quantifiable date, and there is very little context. It wouldn't surprise me if cycling in London had fallen post pandemic - a big reason (I expect) for the rise in cycling during the pandemic was because people wanted to keep their distance from other people. What would be more informative would be to look at the trends leading up to the pre-pandemic period, and the trends post-pandemic.

Andrew Jones ● 382d

You may regard it as a stupid question but it is noteworthy you didn't answer it but deflected.Would you agree that locations that have lines of static traffic are likely to have higher levels of pollution compared to ones where traffic flows?

Jeremy Parkinson ● 382d

Stupid question Jeremy. You are completely ignoring the volume of traffic which will have dropped on Chiswick Lane, just like CHR.That has far more impact on pollution than extremely marginal changes in journey times, which really haven't changed much over the last 10 years.You are still suffering the delusion that to reduce pollution, all that is needed is to speed up vehicles which is both incorrect and a fools errand in an urban environment.

Michael Robinson ● 382d

Most people would not drive to the City of London, what we non cyclists would like is a really good CLEAN  Underground and unobstructed roads for buses. IS khan even attempting to address the toxic x Underground?“Data published on Thursday by the Department for Transport showed that cycling has fallen 5.2% in the year to June 2023 compared to the previous year, and was jsut  0.6% on pre-pandemic levels. This is despite the pandemic prompting assurances of a "cycling revolution" in 2020 from then Prime Minister Boris Johnson.Meanwhile, motor traffic levels increased by 2.3% over the period June 2022 to June 2023, showing that people are returning to driving.”

Maggie Dodge ● 382d

2023 quote from GoogleCycling has dropped despite millions spent on bike lanes and schemes to reduce car use. Cycling boomed during the Covid pandemic which led to the installation of more cycle lanes and controversial low-traffic neighbourhoods (LTNs).What I think gets forgotten is that whereas many cyckists want to stop motorists using their preferred form of transport. We don’t care if people cycle. We’re happy for them if it suits them.  The problem are their attitude, their lack of taking care of their own safety by not using cycle lanes where they exist, that they demanded were essential and still blaming motorists for not taking care of them.

Maggie Dodge ● 382d

Well why not find some data from 2023 as a counter to the trend the 2022 data is suggesting?Meanwhile, in the City of London (which I appreciate is about 8 or 9 miles away, and takes 50 minutes to get to by car) cycling is gaining an increasing share of the way people get about.https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2023/03/01/cyclists-now-outnumber-motorists-in-city-of-london/?sh=6d8ec6f52236

Andrew Jones ● 382d

What on earth are you talking about Jeremy. The westbound junction at Chiswick Lane has never flowed better. The left filter light has such a long extended green that the queues pre-cycle lane have completely disappeared for both left turning and straight-on traffic. That junction is so much better for everybody.

Paul Campbell ● 382d

So would you deny that, if the light phases at the Acton Lane and Chiswick Lane junctions have caused extended wait times for vehicles, this would result in more pollution in these areas?

Jeremy Parkinson ● 382d

It’s easy to  Google and better than Michael deliberately finding a year that suits him, like 2022 rather than 2023. Plus everyone says they see the cycle lanes under used so why isnt that better than some data that can get its sums wrong. easily and often deliberately

Maggie Dodge ● 382d

Jeremy, I certainly not saying that C9 is solely responsible for the improvement in air quality on CHR as air quality is affected by a large number of factors.The point is that the improvement in air quality completely disproves one of the "articles of faith" of opponents to C9, that bike lanes increase pollution.  If you re-read the scaremongering that was being put out by the local Conservative cllrs and others, "increased pollution" was a core objection and like so many of their claims, this has been proven to be complete and utter nonsense. You still can't shake the habit of claiming increases in pollution on the basis of zero evidence.  The believe that somehow pollution can be reduced by speeding up traffic is also completely flawed.The only way to reduce pollution from vehicles is reduce the number of polluting vehicles. Compared to 5 years ago, there are fewer vehicles and the vehicles that are there, on average, will be less polluting. Of course, it isn't easy for the opponents to shake their faith.

Michael Robinson ● 382d

Maggie, if you live on the Ealing side of Chiswick, which posters on this forum have suggested you do, then you don't need to go onto CHR to access shops there. You can park for free in the Sainsbury's car park for two hours. If you want to stay longer and have a resident's permit, you will be able to get a space quite close to the High Road and park as long as you want for free.

Francis Rowe ● 382d

"Including McDonald’s, occasional treat for the kids but my guilty treat too." I used to go to McDonalds, but then I found out what taste buds were for.

Richard Greenhough ● 382d

So no actual data, just anecdotal. What a surprise. Ever heard of confirmation bias?

Andrew Jones ● 382d

I'm not claiming that response times have gone up in other locations. The road appears to have been managed so that queues are been moved to locations where there are three lanes available to traffic meaning that emergency service vehicles don't get stuck. I believe response times haven't increased but I don't believe these figures have any significant weight in proving this is so.Sceptics of the claim that Cycleway 9 has improved air quality on Chiswick High Road, of which I am one, can point to a range of other factors that probably have more weight including a cleaner bus fleet, traffic lanes further away from measuring stations, ULEZ led improvements and fewer vehicles on the High Road (discouraged by increased journey times rather than modal shift). I don't think that there is any ambiguity as to where people think some of this pollution will have been shifted. The throttling of traffic into the centre of town to avoid a logjam at the pinchpoints has led to consistent queueing eastbound at the Acton Lane junction and westbound at the Chiswick Lane junction. It is inconceivable that this hasn't led to a worsening of air quality at these points. It should be pointed out that since the latest phase of the Cycleway was implemented, from my observation, there has been a significant reduction in queueing back from Chiswick Lane. Also the council is proposing to remove the Acton Lane bus gate due to the displacement of traffic it is causing into nearby residential streets. Therefore, although pollution has increased in certain parts of Chiswick due to the cycle lane, the issue might be improved or solved without the need to remove Cycleway 9.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 382d

Chess with pigeons. Utterly pointless.

Paul Campbell ● 383d

Yes. We use our eyes. We play ‘spot the cyclist’ when we drive on any road which is alongside an unused cycle lane 

Steve Taylor ● 383d

"Cycling is on the decrease though."Any data to point to that bears this out Steve?

Andrew Jones ● 383d

I use my car more, I drive much further to shop outside this claustrophobic area. Free parking, good number of variety of shops and a choice of reasonable eateries. Including McDonald’s, occasional treat for the kids but my guilty treat too.  I’m not the only one . If you think you bullies are winning anything read the truth about cycling  numbers  dropping. The toxic Underground and buses stuck in LTN and cycle lane traffic. Paul mentioned a bus driver, he’s a good guy on X . He knows what he’s talking about, he lives it!  Which is why Pauldislikes what he says. Intelligent man that the cycle lobby hate

Maggie Dodge ● 383d

People aren’t using their cars less often. They are using them more and more. Cycling is on the decrease though. Cycle lanes virtually empty.

Steve Taylor ● 383d

The figures are statistically robust for call-outs to addresses on Chiswick High Road as they use data from all such call-outs, so a sample size of 100%.However, that doesn't provide an indication of response times for other locations e.g. Brentford, Acton or the average response times for all locations. More data would be needed for that. But the question didn't ask for that information.I anticipate that the reaction of people opposed to C9 will be exactly the same as the reaction to the fall in pollution along CHR. It will be claims that times have gone up in another unspecified location or that the times would have gone down even more if it hadn't been for the bike lane.

Michael Robinson ● 383d

On the numbers I'm looking at the first arriving fire engine got there a bit quicker than 2018 and a bit slower than 2019 once the cycleway was in place. If you want to take these numbers as statistically robust, which the GLA and I would have reservations, they do raise concerns about the impact of the Cycleway. Nobody is going to argue against your contention that a reduced number of vehicles tends to reduce traffic. There was overall a fall in traffic in 2022 as well although not as pronounced as the previous two years so you would have expected a much bigger improvement in response times but this hasn't happened. The comparable numbers for 2023 may clarify the situation and, as I have made clear, I don't believe response times have been adversely affected. However, I know you hate evidence based on personal observation so maybe the numbers which could be pointing to delays are the best guide.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 383d

The figures show an improvement in response times for call-outs to Chiswick High Rd. You can't claim they don't.I am not making claims about other response times.Interesting that the answer says that responses were generally faster when there were fewer vehicles on the road during lockdown.So emergency services are delayed by other vehicles using the road - who would have thought it?

Michael Robinson ● 383d

It isn't just me who doesn't believe these figures are not a sound basis for concluding response time have improved. This is what the Mayor's team says in response to Nick Roger's question."London Fire Brigade (LFB) responds to limited numbers of incidents at addresses on Chiswick High Road, which means the data available does not provide a reliable basis for calculating average attendance times.  In addition, appliance arrival times were generally faster during 2020 and 2021 due to the pandemic lockdown periods leading to fewer vehicles on the roads for this reason data for the pre-pandemic period 2018/2019 is included for comparison."There is no good evidence that response times have improved and no good evidence that response times have got worse. I have never seen an emergency service vehicle delayed by more than 20 seconds either before or after the Cycleway other than in the very early stages of its operation in 2020.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 383d

"Hopefully a lot of people are using their cars less often."Even Humpty with his big one ?

Richard Greenhough ● 383d

Hopefully a lot of people are using their cars less often.

Anne England ● 383d

We need to stop interfering with traffic flow. The cycle lobby are doing everything in their power to blame cars. The point is people are NOT repeat NOT getting rid of their cars, including cyclists. So perhaps all the dirty tricks can stop now and they can admit defeat.“We live on a road that has seen a 58% increase in traffic, after it was surrounded by LTNs 3 years ago. That's an EXTRA 7,000 vehicles, most of them are still there. We had it tough before, now it is unbearable. I could ask why my child is being hated so much by people”

Maggie Dodge ● 383d

Nick Rogers asked the question in 2023 so 2022 was the latest data available.Where is your evidence that times were worse in 2023?You could always ask your GLA member to ask.  For you, I think this is currently Dr Onkar Sahota, not Nick Rogers.

Michael Robinson ● 383d

Fire brigade response times were worse in 2023, so why quote 2022 ? Traffic lights are being played with to increase congestion , pretty evil in my opinion but it’s widely accepted as fact

Maggie Dodge ● 383d

Fire brigade response times were worse in 2023, so why quote 2022 ? Traffic lights are being played with to increase congestion , pretty evil in my opinion but it’s widely accepted as fact

Maggie Dodge ● 383d

Jeremy, of course we can conclude that LFB response times have improved within the scope of what the question asked about.2018Total Incidents: 66Total incidents where a 2nd pump attended: 141st Pump Average Attendance Time: 00:04:292nd Pump Average Attendance Time: 00:06:372022Total Incidents: 58Total incidents where a 2nd pump attended: 201st Pump Average Attendance Time: 00:04:202nd Pump Average Attendance Time: 00:05:38I'm sure you will agree that 4:20 is less than 4:29 and 5:38 is less than 6:37 so that represents an improvement.Of course, a different question could have been asked, such as every single incident responded to by Chiswick station rather than just ones involving Chiswick High Rd.Nick Rogers is standing down at the next election so you don't have very much time if you would like him to ask a different question otherwise you'll need to wait until the new GLA representative is elected.

Michael Robinson ● 383d

That LFB response times have improved is not something you can conclude from the data provided in answer to that question.However, I'm not arguing that they have got worse. It seems to me that traffic is being managed to reduce to a minimum delays to emergency services vehicles. Learning this week that fire engines can use the cycle lane has inclined me to believe the chances of an emergency services vehicle being seriously delayed on CHR had not significantly increased.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 383d

Wasn’t there an indication that the emergency services were gagged about issues with cycle lanes and planters, refusing to acknowledge the difficulties despite hundreds of videos showing the problem?People also askWhat is the response time for the fire service in London?What is the response time for fire services in the UK 2023?In the year ending March 2023 [footnote 2]: the average total response time to primary fires [footnote 3] in England was 9 minutes and 13 seconds, the longest average response time seen since comparable statistics became available; Source: FIRE1001.23 Nov 2023

Maggie Dodge ● 383d

Jeremy, can you please share with me all your posts complaining about the effect on emergency services of people parking their private vehicles in the bus lane opposite M&S after 7pm every day and on Sundays thus narrowing the main carriageway to two lanes? Also any of your old posts complaining about people parking where the bus lane  used to be between Dukes Avenue and Heathfield Terrace after the bus lane was removed from there in 2015?Thanks. I’m happy to wait.

Paul Campbell ● 383d

Some good news Jeremy - London Fire Brigade response times were actually faster in 2022 than before C9 was built.https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/average-call-out-times-chiswick-high-road-and-after-cw9No doubt Nick Rogers, the SW London GLA member, was prompted to ask this question by some local concerned citizen who I am sure was delighted by the improvements in response time.

Michael Robinson ● 383d

Whether you like it or not consideration of whether or not emergency vehicles can pass has to be an important consideration in road design. Michael is right that there were single lane sections on the High Road both eastbound and westbound before the cycle lane so the reduction in road capacity can be overstated.However, even when there was single lane operation in one direction there were two lanes going the other way meaning that emergency services vehicles rarely if ever got stuck. The cycle lane meant that if there was static traffic in both directions nothing could move (although it seems that the cycle lane can be used by emergency service vehicles in certain circumstances).The initial operation of the cycle lane did cause a lot of issues in this regard and it may be that action had to be taken when the Queen got stuck in the centre of Chiswick in 2020. The solution seems to be to throttle traffic at the Acton Lane and Chiswick Lane junctions to minimise the amount of time that the central section where there is only one lane each way is blocked up.This solution seems to be working quite well. On the day of the incident been discussed, the congestion may well have been a result of the number of vehicles attending. If the ambulance had been 10 yards further west it would have been able to leapfrog traffic by using the cycle lane like the fire engine did.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 383d

It’s curious how a lot of the people who express concern for emergency services being held up in traffic have spent years campaigning against any restrictions on use of private cars. Surely the best way to help emergency vehicles avoid being stuck in traffic is to avoid making the traffic yourself? It’s also curious how they are opposed to bus gates and didn’t complain when the bus lane between Dukes Avenue and Heathfield Terrace was removed to make space for private vehicles in 2015. It almost seems as if their issue isn’t really with the emergency services being delayed at all but something else. What could it be?

Paul Campbell ● 383d

That’s interesting Michael, I’m of the opinion that removing one lane doesn’t help traffic, but I’m a big fan of the bike lane and think more could be done to alleviate pressure. Good to know that the bike lane isn’t solely responsible for the traffic. I think we can come up with a better solution. Keep the bike lane segregated, but have extra traffic lights for the car lanes or something. The extra lights could be staggered somehow and activated by approaching emergency vehicles. There must be some way of allowing emergency vehicles to slalom between 2 bi-directional lanes when required. Surely it’s not beyond the wit of man?

Edward Kent ● 384d

They  are playing with the traffic lights to cause traffic in Brentford.

Maggie Dodge ● 384d

The throughput of a road in terms of vehicles per hour is determined by the lowest capacity selection, the same as 'a chain is strong as the weakest link'.Prior to C9, Chiswick High Road went down to a single lane in both directions at 3 different locations so it never had the throughput of two lanes in both directions anyway.  The single lane sections determine the capacity, however the traffic lights are likely to have been a more significant limiting factor.

Michael Robinson ● 384d

I think you’re suggesting bias , but without any knowledge of the author. Perhaps someone could request details. It’s never a good idea for anything to be published anonymously if there is even a hint of misleading information, don’t you agree?

Maggie Dodge ● 384d

Using cycle lanes to circumvent traffic.l? This can’t be the norm. Even I understand the principle is to separate cyclists from cars let alone big emergency service vehicles.

Maggie Dodge ● 384d

I can’t take seriously anyone who thinks removing a lane from a busy High Road won’t cause a problem. I think are scared to state the obvious

Maggie Dodge ● 384d

As I said, I was initially sceptical but a bit of research suggested it was possible.With regard to the congestion, I am not going to dispute your contention that reducing the number of lanes will cause it to increase generally but, in this particular incident, if the congestion is being attributed to anything it is the large number of emergency sevice vehicles attending which is certainly suggested by the accompanying photo.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 384d

You can get a fire engine down the bike lane, just at a slow speed with caution in mind.Personally, any congestion on the high road is in part and I repeat in part caused by the bike lane for the simple reason it means only one lane in each direction and you are on top of the two bus stops. Two lanes give you more of an option for traffic to move over.

Julian Pavey ● 384d

"wildly dangerous".I not too sure about that. A big red  Fire Engine with blue flashing lights and siren is hardly something a cyclists wouldn't see coming.I hope!

Adrian Irving ● 384d

Yes, it did seem to me unlikely that a fire engine could have done this but, as far as I can work out the cycleway is 2.5m wide and a fire engine is 2.3m wide so a good driver would have been able to manage this. As the report seems to be based on an eye-witness acount there is no reason to doubt its accuracy.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 384d

You are correct about the lack of reference to the cycleway other than where it mentaions a fire engine. You describe it as an LFB vehicle which suggests you are sceptical that a fire engine could travel down the cycleway but I think on this section it may be wide enough. There are numerous examples of emergency services vehicles using cycle lane to circumvent traffic across London.

Mark Evans ● 384d

There is no complaint in the article about the cycle lane. The only mention is a positive one where it relates how a LFB vehicle managed to circumvent the congestion by using the cycle lane which surely is a positive for it?

Jeremy Parkinson ● 384d

Hey! I am not involved in a petty squabble here. This is entirely one way. I can assure you I spend no time worrying about what obsessive opponents of Active Travel are doing with their lives.I agree with Edward that the article is clumsily crow-barring a complaint about the cycle lane into an unrelated story and that makes it likely that it was written by another anti-cycling obsessive. The confirmation bias is off the scale.

Paul Campbell ● 384d

Don’t worry Edward. It’s just Maggie who can’t see past her own single minded obsession with a man named Paul. She can’t post a single comment without mentioning him and we must all suffer reading about him constantly even though none of us care one jot about their petty squabble! 🙄

Ara Jones ● 384d

Hi Maggie,Ok there was no byline on the article, so I was at a loss.Not quite sure what you mean. Would you mind elaborating?

Edward Kent ● 384d

Who wrote the article? Paul Campbell, who is very pro cycling insists emergency services can and do fit in cycle lanes.  Best that none of us add to the speculation don’t you think? 🤔

Maggie Dodge ● 384d

It presumes that the ambulance was in a great hurry to depart when in my experience they often aren't as they have such a lot of equipment inside that they can hook someone up to first  to get an idea of what is going on.  They also have to decide which hospital they are going to take a patient as different hospitals have different specialities.

Philippa Bond ● 384d