Forum Topic

Station House

Work seems to have become a bit more intense lately and today I noticed that a large sign saying "Pub to Let" has appeared. Let's hope somebody fancies the challenge, it would be sad if it just sits empty. Not a great time for the pub trade unfortunately.

Bruce Hammal ● 453d61 Comments

While nobody can deny the pub trade is tough there is a real danger that highlighting this fact here could let the freeholder off the hook. The previous tenant didn't want to leave but had their lease terminated so they at least believed that a pub was viable.

Francis Rowe ● 23h

I think it's difficult not to agree that activity at the pub within the past 10 years possibly wouldn't be encouraging to prospective tenants.That said, the pub is now only one stop on SWT from the stadium of a top 10ish premier league football team, with weekend and mid-week fixtures (not mention London Irish - if they are now back in business).Surely a clever bit of local advertising and an offering of something a little different to the other pubs near to the Community Stadium could attract a portion of those crowds to help to make it a feasible venture.There could be mixed views amongst the locals about attracting such crowds to Grove Park, although, that said, the same crowds at the riverside pubs - in my experience - seem to be mostly well-behaved.

Charles Vessey ● 2d

It is in no man's land to everyone except for locals who drink elsewhere along the river. And between 11 am and 5 pm, Monday to Friday, it would sit empty. If it were a good idea and location, it would not be sitting empty, and the past history tells you a lot.

Julian Pavey ● 2d

If that were universally true Julian, there would be no pubs. It cannot be the case that such a well located venue with little competition nearby couldn't be a success if well run.

Diane Brown ● 2d

You are better off selling pound coins for 80p than opening a pub.

Julian Pavey ● 7d

It was briefly brought back to life up to March 2023 - I don't know if the people who were running it then were the same as pre-Covid but it was a Punch Taverns venue.The owner of the building terminated the lease which, as an agent commented at the time, makes it difficult to argue that a pub is not viable. It'll years before they get permission to convert the pub site into housing but, sadly, it looks like they are prepared to wait the council out.

Mark Evans ● 7d

Did somebody whisper Chiswick Black Dog social?On another note, did I dream that the previous team at the Station House had vaguely brought it back to life? I at least seem to remember live sports at the weekend, eclectic live music nights, improved food. Possibly insufficient for a new operator to feel confident about the £100k lease, possibly not.

Charles Vessey ● 10d

https://london1psychotherapist.wordpress.com/2024/07/06/the-former-albany-arms-17-albany-road-brentford-middlesex/#:~:text=In%202001%20Tony%20Purser%20died,strip%20club%20in%20his%20bar.

Andrew Jones ● 10d

Another seconder for the Black dog.

David Burke ● 10d

The Black Dog is a nice pub with a good beer garden for sitting out on warm and dry evenings. I am sure that the Station House would attract customers if it felt warm and welcoming and had a decent range of food and drinks at reasonable prices. There are plenty of people living within a ten-minute walking distance. It might do better if it followed the example of the Black Dog and changed to a more memorable name.

Richard Greenhough ● 10d

The Black Dog is a great pub, well worth a visit. And I agree - if The Station House reopened as a decent local boozer with some sort of usp, be it great food (Thai, pizza, etc), or sport, entertainment, anything to give it a point of difference and worth travelling to, I'm sure it would do well.

Mark Edwards ● 10d

It's a matter of ambition and management.A pub in Brentford that had been abandoned for years because of its reputation including a murder reopened after asking on BrentfordTW8.com whether people thought it was a good idea to reopen the Albany Arms.The response was 'no way' - nobody will go because of its reputation and because there are plenty of pubs in Brentford.They did it anyway and reopened it as the Black Dog. It is usually packed and https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g7377416-d15247145-Reviews-Black_Dog_Beer_House-Brentford_Hounslow_Greater_London_England.html

Guy Lambert ● 11d

Empty and closed.As my friend who lives not far away says. It is empty because everyone who drinks drinks elsewhere and will sit empty on Monday to Friday at best.

Julian Pavey ● 11d

The last approved planning app P/2024/2713 (Sept 2024) continues to reference a pub at ground-floor level. There has been no subsequent planning app for change of use.

Paul Charlton ● 11d

The Inaccessible Station House?

Felicity Caborn ● 12d

I think it's correct to say the refurbished building no longer has the pub name signage upon it. Is it wise to ask whether or not that could be a clue as to whether or not the owners ever intended for the pub to be brought back into use as a pub?Another line of thought: ideas for new pub names? The New Old Station House? 🤣

Charles Vessey ● 21d

That's the way it's looking. It's a great shame, because every time I pass that empty, shuttered building I remember the great days of the Grove Park Hotel, a handsome building, always full of life and enjoyment. Things seemed to go downhill from the time it was taken over and strangely renamed The Old Station House.

Colin Jordan ● 21d

...anybody get the feeling the Station House pub shan't be reopening, then?

Charles Vessey ● 22d

They paid a consultant to produce a report to say that only a smaller sized pub would be viable at this site. They'll pay another one to say no pub at all is now viable and, the chances are, the council will accept this.

Francis Rowe ● 155d

I was reminded this weekend that there was a tenant for this pub - part of the Punch Taverns group who weren't offered a new lease. Therefore the owner is going to find it difficult to make a case that nobody wants to take on the pub.

Mark Evans ● 156d

The landlord was reported on this site to be a company called Associated Properties Ltd which is based in a Birmingham suburb. I can't see any record of it owning other pubs. One of the directors is an architect and its business is described as letting or owning real estate. So apparently no background in the pub trade.As for the last question, the viability of a community pub would be determined by the lease in this case and it looks like rent which is currently advertised at £80,000 per annum. I've no idea whether that is reasonable. As a benchmark you'd probably want to look at the Queens Head/Hole in the Wall.As for ACV status, this looks like it may be a blind alley. It only really comes into play if the building is to be sold which doesn't seem to be the plan.

Francis Rowe ● 163d

The tabard does have accomodation above the back room/restaurant area which is the part next door if looking from the front over 2 floors

Julian Pavey ● 164d

I'd love to see them all re-open. We never ever used to see empty pubs! O'Riordan's especially as a great location & right by the river.

Lin Hale ● 164d

Slightly off-topic, although I think the Landlord's (rather than the leasing agent's) name was published in another local media source.If memory serves correctly, said landlord has a number of other pubs, so perhaps would take preference to allowing for the continued status and functioning of the pub.If the pub itself isn't for sale (i.e. share of the freehold - or whatever the equivalent is for commercial premises) does anybody know whether or not that would make difference to the viability of a community pub?

Charles Vessey ● 165d

The current Hounslow ACV list includes the Gunnersbury Triangle, Park Road allotments, and the Tabard Inn which has a theatre above and no manager accommodation to my knowledge.

Paul Charlton ● 166d

From memory when (as Councillors and local community groups) we investigated declaring the Pizarros Restaurant and Bar, at Corney Reach, an Asset of Community Value we came across a stumbling block. The owner/manager had to live on the premises. In the case of Pizarros the flat had been sold off. At The Station House the pub manager's living quarters have been incorporated into the new development and separated from the Pub itself.  If this information is out of date I apologise.

Sam Hearn ● 167d

When I walked across the 'Grove Park Piazza' last night it was depressing to see the dark corner which is currently occupied by the Station House. The very good work that has gone into upgrading this area has been undermined by the continued closure of this pub.

Diane Brown ● 167d

If you look up the Hounslow borough website and put "Asset of Community Value" in the search box there is a stack of stuff there. Any group formed interested in making a purchase would be wise to contact other groups who have done this succesfully. CAMRA can help, and its guide is at https://camra.org.uk/campaign-resources/community-owned-pubs-a-camra-guide-15963

Paul Charlton ● 168d

That's interesting and would suggest any putative community pub initiative might want to start with getting ACV status for the Station House.

Francis Rowe ● 168d

In answer to your questions whether it is possible to get the Station House listed as an Asset of Community Value, the answer is probably yes. The pub doesn't have to be open just operating recently.

Anita Blake ● 169d

Paul is right. Don't take financial advice from me.It seems however the planning rules aren't very clear. Any tenant whether a community pub or a large chain would want security of tenue. This is difficult to assume if the landlord has a vested interest in your business failing. It seems in circumstances like this, the planning authorities need to be more proactive and not accept the word of some consultant who is producing a report paid for by the landlord. This was how the downsizing of the pub space was originally justified. What about Asset of Community Value status? Is it possible to get a site designated as such even though the pub is not operating?

Francis Rowe ● 171d

...perhaps many people with a small level of funds? In the spirit of the community pub...?That said, I think it's a fair point: the lease, as it currently is advertised - and unless a community pub is a possibility - would probably only be feasible to a major pub group or a quite wealthy entrepreneur.I'm interested in the community pub option, at least insofar as attempting to contribute to raising interest amongst those with experience, funds and community interest.Presumably the Grove Park Group would be a good first point of contact? Any other recommendations (the CAMRA link was a great link, by the way).

Charles Vessey ● 173d

I think you've demonstrated how seriously anyone should take your financial advice. Taking on that site would be an excellent way for somebody to make a small fortune. Provided they start with a large one.

Paul Campbell ● 173d

"Why don't you do it?"1) Not my local2) Incompetence3) Sloth4) Would drink the profits

Francis Rowe ● 173d

Why don't you do it?

Paul Campbell ● 174d

Pissarro's used to be owned by a consortium of local residents. There are probably plenty of people in the area with good hospitality industry experience who are retired or semi-retired who could make a go of this place.

Francis Rowe ● 174d

The Campaign for Real Ale (CAMRA) has a guide to community-owned pubs at https://camra.org.uk/campaign-resources/community-owned-pubs-a-camra-guide-15963

Paul Charlton ● 175d

Can the developer arbitrarily set a high lease to discourage a tenant from moving in? Surely if the condition of approval is that the space remains a pub then the lease should be set at the level a tenant is willing to pay.

Francis Rowe ● 176d

If only there were a couple of highly paid TV celebrities who used to drink there on a regular basis who might have been persuaded to provide a bit of support for a community pub.

Mark Evans ● 176d

Any further thoughts amongst locals about attempting to make the Station House a community pub?Would the Grove Park Group be interested in... raising interest?According to the information available at Jenkins Law, the lease is on offer for £100,000 p/a.I think this seems quite a large figure, given that the Station House is slightly away from the busier parts of Chiswick (recently a pub on Acton Broadway, approximately twice the size (at least), also had its lease on offer for the same figure.So I think it would require some haggling and considerable organisation within the local community for it to be a feasible project. Is there interest?I don't doubt I wouldn't be in a minority if I said I think it would be a great pity for the remainder of the building to be converted to flats, particularly after the long overdue completion of the piazza.

Charles Vessey ● 177d

A community pub would be a great idea but it would require a sympathetic landlord (as in property owner) and I don't this can be assumed with the Station House.

Mark Evans ● 418d

Although you can get grants the Plunkett Foundation which I have mentioned before apparently don't do grants but give nformational help and support.If you look up the website for the BBC You & Yours programme there has been recent phone in and info on hospitality where running pubs as community hubs was discussed.

Philippa Bond ● 422d

Yes, Ye Fox and Hounds and Mawson Arms and Nos 112-118 Mawson Row are listed II* https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1358692We refused an application to demolish O'Riordans (previously Captain Morgan, Royal Tar) etc but this was overturned by the Planning Inspector. It had been on the market for at least a year (probably more like 3) at £1500K for a quite small pub. Nothing has happened since. I thought it would do well given we then had London Irish as well as the Bees there but they had given up.

Guy Lambert ● 422d

Some pubs combine with selling antiques all on display for customers topurchase including paintings, not sure how viable, but have always thoughtpubs should have some kind of shop on site as petrol stations do.

Janice Evans ● 422d

The Co Operative Party are tring to put legislationg through which wuld give the local community a first offeron all such buildings to make it a community hub or keep it one.  If a group of people got together to form a co cop it could be run as a cummunity pub and have events during the day.  There are grants available for such ventures that have been very successful and not just in small villages.  If it had a small post office counter or delivery drop, a community cafe and meeting space during the day rented by local organisations and was a pub in the required hours it could be a real treasure.  Just because the developers have reduced the event space does not mean events cannot be run and profitably too.  SOcial  Enterprise grants come from everywhere and any historicfactor means lottery and museums money. Anyone fancy it?  I can advise grants if there is a good plan. Someone who has run a successful venue is a must though as it gives you a head start

Caroline Carney ● 423d

It's hard to imagine what else the Mawson Arms could be other than a pub. Its location, right by the A4 would surely preclude turning it into housing, though these days, who knows? I would guess it's a listed building too. The Duke of York across the way on Devonshire Road has also been standing empty for years. It's a real problem finding an alternative use for these places. In the case of the Station House it would be nice to imagine it as some sort of community hub, perhaps including a banking centre, Post Office or the like. The problem as always will be finding the money.

Bruce Hammal ● 423d

This is what is happening to the Mawson Arms by Fuller’s Brewery. It has been up for sale as a pub for months now with no takers as far as I can see so the developers will then be able to change its use.

Susan Jennifer Thackray ● 424d

The Copper Cow does great tucker, including Sunday lunch, and manages to be a pub first and foremost.But don't spread this out to all and sundry. Keep this little haven just as it is.

Denis I. Fox ● 427d

The Copper Cow in Fauconberg Road seems to do very good business. It's quite small with some outdoor seating and serves food as well as being a bar/cafe. It has become the "local" for lots of people in the immediate area. It would be nice to think the same could happen with the Station House but the fixed costs of running the place look frightening. It would be interesting to know how this compares with The Copper Cow's overheads.

Bruce Hammal ● 427d

It depends on what hours it is open. There seems to be a market for places where parents meet up after delivering their children to school.  Many pubs nowadays also serve coffee and have become places where people meet up for a catch up at points in their day where lives collide.

Philippa Bond ● 427d

https://plunkett.co.uk/open-for-business-thanks-to-the-local-community/

Philippa Bond ● 428d

There is a man in Ealing called Victor Mishiku who specialises in digging up old covenants to stop unwelcome developments. He would be worth contacting if a campaign got going to save the pub. However, even if such a requirement exists, it probably can be set aside if it can be 'proved' that a bar is unviable.

Francis Rowe ● 439d

Heard there’s a legal requirement to maintain a bar there - word is, it’s an old law to provide refreshments for engine drivers.

Russell Pearson ● 440d

So they have to pay a lease on top of that rent? What's the difference? Also rates will be payable as well. I have no idea whether or not that is viable or not but a certain amount of time needs to pass before an application for a change of use can be submitted. Not sure how long that is but it probably won't be hard to convince the council that a pub isn't viable here.

Francis Rowe ● 441d

Plus the lease by the looks of it. What happens if it never gets taken up?https://cdn.gnbproperty.com/gnb-user-uploads/cnb/images/jenkins/notices/404/brochure/1a324f51aaa29e3289b11049921cf041.pdf

Russell Pearson ● 442d

3 small tables on the far right are all that is left of the large dining room/event space yellow = pub space, green =outside tables

Ceinwen Mailvagnam ● 446d

the problem with this site now is that they have halved the floor space of the pub, so they can't really host events (quizzes, jazz nights and the like). The original planning said the whole ground floor needed to be retained, but they moved the kitchen downstairs and added the entrance to the flats and a bin store and there is no space left....

Ceinwen Mailvagnam ● 449d

The deveoper is obliged to market it as a pub for a certain amount of time and then submit proof that they couldn't get a viable pub to open there. Not sure how long that would be but it may be at least a year. I think Julian is right, and even if the developer was sincere in its attempts to reopen the Station House, it may not be possible. Perhaps it is a candidate for a community pub which is an increasinly popular solution to this sort of issue.

Francis Rowe ● 450d

Makes you wonder if there's a plan B should the pub not get any takers....

Bruce Hammal ● 453d

Between the hrs of 11am and 5pm that will sit empty and then you pray people will come in above those hrs and weekend. More established popular pubs and gastro pubs will make it a no goer let alone the hard times pubs are having. You just cant rely on weekend trade at best It would have to be something really special to get the numbers in of a weekday evening,and i talk food rather than a pint

Julian Pavey ● 453d

Not helped by Grove Park's Byzantine road restrictions.

Colin Jordan ● 453d