Forum Topic

MARCH FOR A CEASEFIRE - SATURDAY 11TH NOVEMBER 12PM TURNHAM GREEN TUBE

Hi,I'm not up for a discussion on this. I'm a mum and a teacher and I can't stand by and watch anymore indiscriminate killing of innocent people, who are now being starved to death with no medical aid or water. I have been on two marches both peaceful and full of people from all walks of life, young, old and every religion. Don't believe what you hear in the media. There will be a Chiswick group meeting at Turnham Green Terrace on Saturday 11th at 12pm to take the tube into town and march. Please feel free to join us.

Jo Killingley ● 1048d99 Comments

Generally in agreement with the sentiment (as posted on here many times before) but at the end of the day it’s not our war (although the political class seem lined up behind Israel). My concern is that these foreign ethnic and religious battles are now playing out on our streets which is something I never asked for.

Bryan Turner ● 1048d

You can march  as much as you like, no ceasefire before the hostages are releasedhttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/03/full-force-offensive-in-gaza-will-carry-on-till-hostages-freed-says-netanyahu

Michael Good ● 1048d

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-who-are-the-37-young-hostages-held-in-gaza-12999303

Michael Good ● 1048d

Yes John, true that no ceasefire in sight. But lethal collective punishment is a war-crime (as is the Hamas random murder of civilians), and people do want to express their horror at both.

Davey Harris ● 1048d

Whoops: not John but Michael! Sorry!

Davey Harris ● 1048d

To be honest marching for Palestinians isn’t going to achieve anything other than hate crime to Jews, marching to eradicate Hamas is what we should all be doing that sends the right message. Hamas have publicly stated they are not interested in a ceasefire, perhaps those marching should really understand the issue Hamas is killing the Palestinians not Israel.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1048d

But they’re not expressing their horror at “both” are they ?https://www.stopwar.org.uk/events/national-march-for-palestine-ceasefire-now/

Michael Good ● 1048d

Jo do you actually care about the 1400 innocent Israeli’s at a music festival, in their homes  men women and children slaughtered by Hamas? Do you care about the barbaric way they were killed? Do you care about the hostages? Marching for Palestinians is a vote for Hamas shame on you and you are teaching our children terrifying. Perhaps you should change  your career and learn about facts Hamas started this war, hiding behind their own people they are cowards and terrorists and you want to March from TGT plain wrong.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1048d

Just to add to the biggest slaughter of the innocents since 9/11, the carnage included the raping and disemboweling of pregnant women and beheading of babies.It is disconcerting that sympathy for the Israeli people is waning in this country and a wave of anti-Semitism is emerging.Today a Jew is fearful of going outdoors for fear of being apprehended. Today at Euston station a swastika adorned the station wall. A baying hate crowd surrounded two ladies selling poppies from a table.Looking forward to your planned march Jo, with your new friends, representing Turnham Green NOT?Wear a warm coat Jo, take a hot flask, don't catch a cold whatever you do.

Denis I. Fox ● 1048d

So, killing 9000 Palestinians makes it ok then d?es it.

N V Brooks ● 1048d

The common enemy is Hamas not Israel or Palestine, Hamas are killing their own people by hiding behind them and beneath them. I too feel desperately sorry for Jewish people in the UK these marches are wrong unless they condemn Hamas. I also hope that the protesters respect Remembrance Day our forefathers fought and died this is our day to show our respect. There is no place for any protests.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1048d

I too feel sorrow for ordinary Jews in Israel or as part of the vast diaspora. The IDF are murdering innocent Palestinians, Christian, Muslim and Jew in disproportionate numbers to eradicate Hamas however and this should be roundl condemned along side the atrocities of Hamas

N V Brooks ● 1047d

That’s your view clearly the Israeli military want to eradicate Hamas I can understand that, sadly too many innocent lives have been lost on both sides. If the world condemned Hamas we might get somewhere. The Palestinian protest marches are giving a signal to Hamas it’s OK to slaughter innocent lives. Time for the world to stand up against terrorists. Don’t forget Hamas stated aim is to eradicate Israel.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1047d

And the actions of the IDF are hardly helping

N V Brooks ● 1047d

Hamas has been roundly condemned, and rightly so. But the immediate problem is the IDF, and if the protesters seem to you to be pro-Palestinian, it's because right now it's Palestinians who are being slaughtered. No-one can bring back to life the 1400 Israelis slaughtered on 7th October, but perhaps protests can prevent further slaughter of innocent inhabitants of Gaza. The IDF isn't just eradicating Hamas. It's visiting terrible revenge on a civilian population, and it must be stopped.

Robert Fish ● 1047d

“ Jordan's air force personnel air-dropped urgent medical aid to the Jordanian field hospital in Gaza early on Monday, according to a post on X from Jordan's king and state media.“A royal air force plane dropped urgent medical aid using parachutes to the Jordanian field hospital in Gaza whose supplies were about to run out due to the delay of delivering aid through Rafah crossing”, Jordan’s state news agency said citing a military source in the General Command of the Jordanian Armed Forces.Jordan  recalled its ambassador to Israel and told the Israeli ambassador to stay away in protest at the Israeli bombardment of Gaza, saying the attacks had killed innocents and caused a humanitarian catastrophe.Health officials in Hamas-controlled Gaza said more than 9,770 Palestinians have been killed. “

Steve Taylor ● 1047d

Looking forward to seeing all those placards saying..."Free Palestine from Hamas"I won't hold my breath.

Nick Jenkins ● 1047d

Sad but true Hamas don’t care that they are using their own people as human shields. Israel is in an extremely difficult position what Hamas did was pure evil and they will continue to slaughter Israeli’s given the chance so I totally understand Israel want to rid Gaza of Hamas. What is happening on both sides is horrific and yet Hamas think it is acceptable to hold children, men and women as hostages.. There is little the UK can do the negotiations are between the various factions Hamas are making demands and NOT allowing the Rafah border crossing to open without their demands being met. Hamas need to be eradicated that is the only way there is any chance of a ceasefire and peace talks.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1047d

Meanwhile, the IDF think it is acceptable to slaughter 9500 non combatants to kill a few Hamas fighters. In any other zone this is a war crime. Being Israeli does mot exempt you from international law.

N V Brooks ● 1047d

How many new Hamas recruits for each mother/child killed by Israel?

James Roy ● 1047d

That's going to be the problem, you cannot eradicate an ideology no matter what you do. From a poll in one of yesterday's papers it seems most people in this country are 50 - 50 on this issue. It is horrifying and brutal, but all the marches in the world will not make on iota of difference, the people most involved are not listening.

Vanessa Smith ● 1047d

On a purely practical level there will be no Tube service from Turnham Green on Saturday Nov 11 due to engineering works. According to the front page story there may not be a replacement bus service either.

Bruce Hammal ● 1047d

Marshmallow infused hot chocolate in an artisan bakery it is then.

Mark Frost ● 1047d

Something someone said to me made me wondering if in W.W.2 there was the same hour by hour first hand video reports both from journalists and people on the sharp end what the impact on opinions both at home and abroad would have been.Would they have called for a ceasefire?

Adrian Irving ● 1047d

You make a very good point Adrian, social media, journalists, media in general and they get it wrong on occasions which fuels the war what about Yemen, Ukraine there is war happening in too many places but we don’t hear anything. Religion has a lot to answer for, ideology that is causing suffering for so many people other than the terrorists. If the world stood united against terrorists would it change anything probably not. I just pray the protesters don’t disrespect Remembrance Sunday that’s important in our society.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1047d

Jayne I do agree with you that protesters should be calling for the releaseof hostages first.

Janice Evans ● 1047d

Actually, considering the technology available there is a noticeable lack of actual front line reporting for this conflict as like the Ukraine war. All we seem to get are talking heads and their opinions and my view is that the media is there to (1) reflect the reality of the facts on the ground and (2) ask difficult questions on both sides.I see very little of this. Obviously, if you feel so inclined you can always find the realties from other sources (as everyone now has a smart phone) and the two never really seem to correlate.

Bryan Turner ● 1047d

I'm concerned that the media and establishment is trying to talk up civil unrest on Saturday by the way. The vast majority of people so far on both sides have been respectful and calm but all the hype focused around "defense of the cenotaph" and highlighting fringe elements (be they people with Hamas flags or "national front types") seems designed to incite people into direct physical conflict.    If this occurs the there will be calls from the establishment and media talking heads for yet more draconian laws to ban protest which will be targeted on everyone expressing any kind of dissent (and for any reason) so I would avoid.Be careful what you wish for.

Bryan Turner ● 1047d

I don't agree with you often, Bryan, but, regrettably, I think you might be right on this. They're trying to talk up a problem, and an excuse for ever more repressive policing.

Robert Fish ● 1047d

Not sure, the real problem is that most people who protest are respectful and peaceful sadly there is an element in society that just want to cause trouble they don’t care about any cause. There are so many causes where does it all ✋ our society still has to go about their work and live in peace. Most of us are tolerant and don’t look to violence sadly like all laws the minority spoil it for the majority.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1047d

https://news.sky.com/story/met-asks-pro-palestininan-protesters-to-urgently-reconsider-armistice-day-march-13002192

Michael Good ● 1047d

Can someone clarify why in most countries Armistice day is a public holiday but not in the UK?

Nicholas Beard ● 1046d

Firstly it looks like the District Line is shut on Saturday, so please plan alternative routes (bus, overground etc). Innocent children are NOT Hamas. (4,500 bombed so far) No food, no water, no medicine to help heal the 90% burns and blown off limbs. Who in their right mind thinks this is ok? It's not about Hamas or the IDF it's about humanity and the world watching on doing nothing.  If you want to educate yourselves and find out what's really happening in Gaza follow these brave young people who have turned reporters (as Israel won't let anyone in) @wizard_bisan1 @motaz_azaiza @middleeasteye If you don't watch these people, then please don't comment as you are only listening to one side of the story. And the media here are selling you their own rhetoric.

Jo Killingley ● 1045d

I'm not up for a discussion on this.  I can't stand by and watch anymore indiscriminate killing of innocent people, by ISIS/HAMAS who, just a month ago  shot 3000 rockets from the Gaza Strip , infiltrated Israel, killed and brutalised innocent people of all ages, all religions, from all nationalities,  and are now being hidden fed and lauded by their compatriots in Gaza ( as we know Egypt /the rest of the arab world doesnt want them ) as they continue to hide the 200+ mainly old women and children hostages they tookI'll be leaving Turnham Green at 11- whos' with me ?! ( I wont hold my breath,...)

Tim Garfoot ● 1045d

Jo - what exactly do you think your march will achieve ? Do you really think that either Hamas or the Israeli government will take the slightest notice of people marching in London ?

Richard Greenhough ● 1045d

Blimey - for once Richard you have taken the words right out of my mouth. Given that so far pressure and intervention from so many countries has had no effect whatsoever on events, this might make the participants feel better, but achieve nothing of any value.

Vanessa Smith ● 1045d

Isn’t it about us trying to impress upon our government and opposition to be the first western country to actually put some pressure on Israel. We have an election coming up so we are perfectly placed to ask our government and weak opposition what the hell they are going to do about the mass murder of innocent children. Otherwise…….what do you propose? Just sit back and watch the news?

Steve Taylor ● 1045d

I suppose the old adage that two wrongs don't make a right doesn't apply where there is so much hatred on both sides.

James Roy ● 1045d

Could someone explain why the UK continue to get involved in other countries wars when we have so many issues in our own back yard? Billions spent in foreign aid whilst our own economy crumbles. Not our war, not our problem.

Lee Harding ● 1045d

"...what about Yemen, Ukraine there is war happening in too many places..." What about the murder of women in Iran for the "crime" of not covering their hair, or the suppression of women's rights in Afghanistan ? "Religion has a lot to answer for"Indeed it does.

Richard Greenhough ● 1045d

The Balfour declaration put the Jews into Jerusalem so it is only right that we help when required.One fact to point out why so many innocent deaths are occurring in Gaza: in 16 years de facto governance Hamas has not built one shelter for its citizens and children.Instead Hamas has built miles and miles of tunnels for its own protection, where it hoards its own food, fuel, weapons and rockets, It does not care for the people of Gaza, using them as human shield.Too many people are marching in London supporting these terrorists, not just the innocents.

Denis I. Fox ● 1045d

Balfour declaration also says "nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."Presumably that would include the illegal settlement of Jews in the West Bank?

James Roy ● 1045d

"Too many people are marching in London supporting these terrorists, not just the innocents."Vastly outnumbered by those marching in London to show opposition to the continuing slaughter of innocent civilians in Gaza.

Andrew Jones ● 1045d

The 6 Day war saw surrounding Arab states attack Israel, after which Israel expanded its territory and annexed its enemies including the West bank. Chiefly to be safer and remain supreme.Wars, which Israel have never started always result in boundary changes.nothing remains the same for ever.

Denis I. Fox ● 1045d

Hope your forecast remains true.

Denis I. Fox ● 1045d

'Isn’t it about us trying to impress upon our government and opposition to be the first western country to actually put some pressure on Israel. We have an election coming up so we are perfectly placed to ask our government and weak opposition what the hell they are going to do about the mass murder of innocent children. Otherwise…….what do you propose? Just sit back and watch the news?'What influence do you think anyone from this country - or for that matter, any other country, has over these appalling events? If they're not listening to the U.S.A. or the U.N.  then the chances of anyone here getting through is about nil. You cannot bomb an ideology out of existence, but you can and do breed more hatred and intolerance. I have no answers and I suspect neither does anyone else, would that we did.

Vanessa Smith ● 1045d

Totally agree the real players are Hamas and Israel the UK has zero influence. As I said before March to eradicate Hamas sends a far better message. The whole western world is trying to influence a pause for humanitarian aid they are NOT a calling for a ceasefire because Hamas has already stated they are not interested in one. So attacking Israel and demanding a ceasefire on one side is ridiculous and isn’t going to happen. March to stop Hamas nothing else is a relevant because no one is listening. This is a truly complex issue and as someone has stated hatred on both sides. Sadly Hamas are using Palestinians as human shields to carry out their hatred and slaughter. Hamas has plenty of fuel for their weapons, food and water that is the reason Israel is not agreeing to more aid as Hamas steals it. Hamas can provide aid to their own people but don’t what does that tell you…..

Jayne Thorburn ● 1045d

Lee, it's because Britain,like many countries has no friends but it does have interests.

Keith Iddon ● 1045d

My limited understanding of Britain's historical involvement with the region is that we were put in charge of Palestine by the League of Nations when that was established after WW1,and subsequently tried to limit the number of Jewish people from settling in Palestine in order to appease Arab nations so we could have the continuing benefits of use of the Suez Canal.We tried to enshrine equal rights for all citizens with the Balfour Agreement but history has outgrown all of that now.A poisoned chalice if ever there was one.

Keith Iddon ● 1045d

Religious fanatacism fundamentalism and intolerance whatever religion is a problem and causes further problems.

Philippa Bond ● 1045d

“ Hamas has plenty of fuel for their weapons, food and water that is the reason Israel is not agreeing to more aid as Hamas steals it. Hamas can provide aid to their own people but don’t what does that tell you…..”It tells me that the Jewish controlled media is very good at fake news when people like you suck it all up!

Steve Taylor ● 1045d

No religion preaches hatred, slaughter anyone that uses religion as an excuse for terrorism are mentally deranged, thugs, power and ego. there is absolutely no excuse and all relevant gods will look down on individuals in horror that their name is being used for any such cause. Time to rid the world of such monsters. I pray Israel achieve their goal to eradicate Hamas at least from Gaza and then perhaps Palestinians and Israeli’s have a chance to live in peace.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1045d

You don’t know anything Hamas have an underground city with plenty of supplies you are pedalling fake

Jayne Thorburn ● 1045d

Hmm  Perhaps you should research the assassination of Lord Moyne.

Philippa Bond ● 1045d

"I pray Israel achieve their goal to eradicate Hamas at least from Gaza and then perhaps Palestinians and Israeli’s (sic) have a chance to live in peace." Are you serious? The eradication of Hamas, without addressing the roots of the Palestinian problem, is guaranteed to perpetuate resentment and hostility.  The monster Hamas has fed on the Netanyahu governments reliance on a military solution to a social and political problem. Until Israel stops trampling on the human rights of Palestinians it will never enjoy a lasting peace.

Robert Fish ● 1045d

That may be true (I have no idea) however the rockets fired by Hamas use a solid fuel propellant which couldn't be used for generators etc. so mentioning that Hamas have plenty of rocket fuel when people are talking about generators having no fuel is misleading.

Andrew Jones ● 1045d

Well done to the Welsh Parliament for having the guts to demand a ceasefire.  Well done to the Welsh Labour MPs who gave the finger to the coward Starmer. If only symbolic it sends a strong message to the world and to the Israeli government who are intent on carrying out the killing of innocent people until Hamas is wiped out and Gaza is a desert!

Steve Taylor ● 1045d

Hamas have a tunnel city under Gaza, the have built them under hospitals, schools and have done nothing for the Palestinians during their so called governing years. Many Israel’s and Palestinians are friends I have hope that one day they can live together in peace and Israel is not threatened by terrorists or other Arab states. We can live in hope for both sides. Hamas must go….

Jayne Thorburn ● 1045d

That day I will be busy,sending best wishes out to all the Poppy Sellers too frightened to do their volounteering this year after so many intimidated and at least one punched by The Free Palestine mob

David Harmes ● 1044d

That's a most unfortunate result of a situation that should have been sorted in a fair and better way many years ago. It is a shame that not enough history is taught so that it is better understood today.

Philippa Bond ● 1044d

I disagree Phillipa ,I don't see Chinese Spanish Jewish, White English, Italian French Swedish Dutch Portuguese etc etc intimidating our Poppy Sellers. What an awful state of affairs ,

David Harmes ● 1044d

The Poppy is to raise funds for all Nationalities that served and still do andI don't think that was clear to everyone, it does highlight hatred towards the UK which is disturbing.

Janice Evans ● 1044d

Probably because K.S I don't like to discuss them but seems to be unableto make an unbiased decision, I think that's how it would appear to others.

Janice Evans ● 1044d

Is there any evidence that a poppy seller was punched by free Palestine protestors? If you are referring to the daily mail headline, the british transport police have suggested there is no evidence of this (despite ample CCTV coverage at the station in Edinburgh where it was alleged to have occurred).

David Turner ● 1044d

The Daily Mail must have a department that just makes up headlines to wind up the knuckle draggers.

Brian Green ● 1044d

David  Why would you?  Why would they?  There is a great lack of understanding and a lot of ignorance of the reasons why there is a problem in that particular area of the world and of any British involvement in it.  History at school is so often so selective that it just seems to centre around the Romans, Victorians, Tudors and Stuarts!  Many people - grandparents and parents - who served in the Great Wars never spoke much if at all about their experiences so their families didn't learn much in that way either and have learnt much more later on.

Philippa Bond ● 1044d

If it was that headline that I heard about then it hadn't been verified this morning.  The Home Secretary has also been busy stirring up division and alarm which is particularly worrying.

Philippa Bond ● 1044d

Well as this knuckledragger  walked around Chiswick today wearing my poppy,I did not see anyone else wearing one zilch nada.I was in Billericay Essex yesterday and saw plenty. Demographics I suppose,sad really.

David Harmes ● 1044d

The RBL Poppy Appeal is held to raise funds to support British Veterans and others who served in British forces, Royal Navy, Army and the Royal Air Force.

Vanessa Smith ● 1044d

Did you see anyone selling poppies?  I remember years ago there being a shortage of sellers.  Life has changed a lot since my parents and grandparents were in the forces. I'm not aware that anyone I know now is in the forces and I have seen only one poppy seller at a supermarket but probably haven't been anywhere else where they are being sold.

Philippa Bond ● 1044d

“ Benjamin Netanyahu rejected a deal for a five-day ceasefire with Palestinian militant groups in Gaza in return for the release of some of the hostages held in the territory early in the war, according to sources familiar with the negotiations.The sources said the Israeli prime minister rejected the deal outright in negotiations “

Steve Taylor ● 1044d

Very fair point Philippa,re poppy sellers.

David Harmes ● 1044d

Just a thought , wonder how many of these Free Palestine demonstrators the real ones not the yummy mummy mob  ,you know the ones going potty outside that restaraunt in Acton.If asked do they love the country they live in aka here how many would say yes? .......so this march goes ahead unlike the EDL march of a few years ago banned as provoking violence. Yet here we have "the left"  about to be confronted by "the right" aka The Football Lads, coach loads from everywhere coming to "protect the cenotaph"  so if this demo is not provoking violence what is?  By the way ask The Football Lads if they love the country they live in. I am not muslim I am not Jewish I have no idea how they feel and all of us are just pawns in how we interprate what we read  surely. But this Demo is confrontory being on the 11th. They know exactly what they are doing trying to infiltrate a very sacred part of our life, sticking the boot in and the police bottled it .......

David Harmes ● 1043d

It’s disgusting what’s happening in Gaza. A genuine ethnic cleansing and to my shame I’ve never paid too much attention to what Israel have been up to in Palestine to decades now it seems.I do however think that our establishment are trying to set up a “January 6th” type incident tomorrow in order to introduce even more draconian laws on free speech / protest. I expect there will be undercover types embedded on both sides trying to make sure this happens as that’s how they work.I would avoid.

Bryan Turner ● 1043d

'They dont want to see us unite They want us to keep on fighting They dont want to see us live together All they want us to do is keep on killing one another ' - Bob Marley

Anna Kirkpatrick ● 1043d

Is this a joke?

Elle Jones ● 1043d

“ Israel must stop bombing Gaza and killing women and babies, says French President Emmanuel Macron.Mr Macron said there was “no justification” for the continued bombing of the enclave, which Palestinian health officials claim has killed more than 11,000 people.He told the BBC that although France “clearly condemns” the 7 October “terrorist” attacks on Israel by Hamas and recognised Israel’s right to defend itself, “we do urge them to stop this bombing.”

Steve Taylor ● 1042d

Question.We are told that Hamas don't care about the residents of Gaza so,if true, why do the IDF think by bombing the place to near oblivion will bring Hamas to return their hostages?It doesn't add up.

Adrian Irving ● 1042d

Well said Mr Fox as we can all see on our the television screens at present, you will all always get the likes of the NF, and other far right groups.

Richard Atterwill ● 1042d

Jayne said Hamas have tunnel city under Gaza,

Janice Evans ● 1042d

It does add up because the Israeli government has made it perfectly clear that they will destroy Hamas no matter what it takes. Netanyahu doesn’t give a toss about the hostages. They are obviously just collateral damage to him. He already rejected the offer to release hostages as outlined in my post above. This is just an evil political game to him and he has succeeded because the western world supports him.

Steve Taylor ● 1042d

Exactly whom have you seen "intimidating our poppy sellers"? What's the source of your disinformation? Both the Royal British Legion and British Transport Police say there is no evidence that poppy sellers have been targeted. Media mischief-making!

Robert Fish ● 1042d

Exactly. Brilliant piece of dog-whistling by the Daily Mail etc. Responsible in part for the terrible scenes unfolding at the Cenotaph. God help the police and the people marching for a ceasefire on Armistice Day.

Geraldine Phillips ● 1042d

But he's not a decent leader - he once argued NATO was "brain dead" giving succour to Putin to start his war crimes in Ukraine. This French leader also flattered himself that he could persuade Putin not invade and pull back, but Putin massively played him. h

Gareth Sinclair ● 1042d

Yes but he is the ONLY decent western leader when it comes to speaking out FIRMLY against the murder of innocent Palestinians.

Steve Taylor ● 1042d

Hamas have hundreds of miles of tunnels, halls etc under buildings including hospitals, schools, residential building, having set traps for the Israeli’s army so super dangerous for anyone to enter and that is if they can find the tunnels. Hence the bombing to try to dismantle the tunnel network before the soldiers enter. Hamas have clearly been planning this for years. I doubt Hamas cares about the hostages and a very clever evil plan to bomb and kill innocent civilians and blame everything on Israel. Hamas are not human but following some warped ideology.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1042d

France's 'man of destiny'(LOL) is correct on this issue imo,but  I think many in France might disagree that he has been good for much else.

Keith Iddon ● 1042d

Sorry to say this, Jayne, but you have completely lost your moral compass. To be sure, Hamas's obscene violence was the trigger for this war, but to say that it's all their fault, and thereby excuse the slaughter of 11,000 innocent civilians, the destruction of hospitals and the denial of food, water and medical supplies to a desperate and trapped population, is utterly repugnant.

Robert Fish ● 1042d

A day or two after the attack I saw footage of a Hamas gunman firing at a row of portable toilets, one toilet at a time. Any one in any of the toilets would likely have been highly likely to either been murdered or seriously injured. This was at the music festival.It was a pre-meditated attempt to slaughter anyone who was hiding, scared for their life, in those portable toilets.I don't doubt that the IDF are making some attempts to preserve civilian life during their bombing of Gaza e.g. by contacting civilians and ordering them to evacuate, however the IDF are also knowingly killing innocent civilians, in a pre-meditated manner. I struggle to comprehend how one can think this is much better than what Hamas did, unless you subscribe to the doctrine the end justifies the means.

Andrew Jones ● 1042d

I don’t dispute that many in France will claim that Macron has been good for very little but that’s not the point. We are talking about the murder of innocent Palestinians and the fact that Macron has spoken out. I have no idea if the majority in France disagree with him on this issue but, if they do, I admire him even more for speaking out. Unlike our cowardly ‘leaders’. Macron is putting this issue before politics. Good for him.

Steve Taylor ● 1042d

So 100 odd right wing supporters arrested.FineSo the singing of The Sea song rung out all day it seems ,we all know what that is about what it represents totally inflamatory ,confrontational  ,yet nothing done all allowed If the Police had done their job and tried to arrest those chanting can you imagine the outcome.  It is an antisemitic chant denying the Jewish right to self-determination, including through the removal of Jews from their ancestral homeland used by Hamas ............carry on Plod and monday you can get back to putting your mobile speed guns up catching 21mph drivers in London

David Harmes ● 1042d

I wish you could delete comments on here,I would delete my last one. I shall bow out of this thread I am just a forum idiot spouting off  ,it really is awful ,all this killing, all this hate.

David Harmes ● 1042d

But it is also the ancestral homeland of the Palestinians and there has been and is a lot of illegal occupation and land grabs going on and there have been many ignored UN Resolutions.  Such a shame the great chance of peace offered by the Oslo Accords was wrecked by the assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin by an Israeli Jew.Surely the more killing the greater the future problems that are being created.

Philippa Bond ● 1041d

“ the great chance of peace offered by the Oslo Accords was wrecked by the assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin by an Israeli Jew.”No it wasn’t. It was wrecked by Israel adopting cruel Apartheid policies stifling self determination and stripping human dignity. Israel expected Palestine to be grateful for the chicken feed. The Apartheid regime expected black people to be grateful for the designated homelands it offered.

Steve Taylor ● 1041d

Yes, that too.https://www.un.org/unispal/about-the-nakba/

Philippa Bond ● 1041d

Message removed

Bryan Turner ● 1041d

Nicholas Cage " Lord Of War" ; the final scene  "you know whose going to inherit the earth ? The arms dealers. Everyone else is too busy killing each other".

Anna Kirkpatrick ● 1041d

Ana - why do you feel the need to make exactly the same post on multiple threads ?

Richard Greenhough ● 1041d

Im flattered you take an interest in my posts Richard ! So long as thats all it is mind .... I dont need a stalker..

Anna Kirkpatrick ● 1041d