Forum Topic

Old Market Place article front page

( I couldnt find an existing discussion link , apologies if there is one)Curious how popular the re-emergence of this location ( or at least the perception) is, and also how uncared for it is in its current state- IMHO its doesnt need to be redeveloped - the archictetural drawings of multi coloured-kids-doing-cartwheels is,as ever, somewhat different to the reality..Walking tnrough it earlier, a day after the flower market- there's plants/ flowers and flower  market related detrious across the site The additional footfall results in ( guess what) overflowing bins and trails of litter everywhere- the pavements and car parking areas look about as well cared for as downtown Mogadishu on a windy day.Im guessing Hounslow Highwats extracts some ££ from the Flower Market organisers for clean-up dutiues-if so, it isnt doing this- and to do it properly it should have an automated street sweeper to do so...if it doent, and its left to the Flower market organisers and stall holders- can they really walk away claiming another fantabulous successful day, and not see the trail of stuff they leave behind....?   A few brooms and a bit of shared graft would do a world of good...

Tim Garfoot ● 1082d72 Comments

I’d suggest talking to Hounslow Council, Guy Lambert could point you in the right direction. Personally I’d say this is a plan to remove the car park and you’ll be up against the cycle lobby. But maybe not

Maggie Dodge ● 1082d

The cycling lobby has done enough damage in chiswick so I hope you are wrong, car drivers have rights too!

Jayne Thorburn ● 1082d

Let me start with the obvious, the area which the Flower Market people refer to is not called "Old Market Place", it never was it is simply a name that the people who are behind the Flower Market would like it to be renamed as - but from other threads it would seem that renaming has no/very little chance of success.There is a lot to like about the proposals.  Admittedly the rain garden idea sounds more trendy that of much practical use and depends on it actually being maintained but could be nice.  However, I do think there needs to be a lot more research into who currently uses the car parking and why before any final allocation of number of car parking spaces is determined including EV charging spaces and disabled parking spaces

Justin Stephenson ● 1082d

The markets are fantastic so let’s keep this space as a multi purpose area so everyone gets catered for….think our council tax which we pay could be spent much better elsewhere and not wasted on ridiculous schemes that don’t need fixing. Then we are talking a Labour council and they haven’t a clue 😂😂😂

Jayne Thorburn ● 1082d

We have starmer flip flops at £18 a pop and supposedly flying of the shelf.What could we come up with locally?Over to you

Julian Pavey ● 1082d

Justin. You maybe incorrect regarding the Old Market Place.A LARGE indoor market was located where the old Police Station is now ... and this is clearly shown on the 1935 Ordnance Survey map.It's very likely that the area outside the indoor market as occupied by market vehicles and possibly flower stalls too.

Jim Lawes ● 1082d

An old Chiswickian, now long gone, and who I used to serve beer told me his family owned fruit & vegetable stalls alongside a myriad of stalls occupying the area outside the current George 1V and along a stretch of Devonshire Road.The old boy told me Devonshire Road was quite a rough area and you would need to "watch out" for yourself.

Denis I. Fox ● 1082d

Yes, Jim, and there's a 1925 photo of the George IV which shows market stalls and vehicles (presumably traders') in front of it.

Robert Fish ● 1082d

Jim, I think it’s been discussed and the name Old Market Place has never been used . Which is the point you keep missing, with respect

Maggie Dodge ● 1082d

Yes The Flower Market use the made up address on their advertising. A bit odd I thought . Presumptuous perhaps as it’s never been made official

Maggie Dodge ● 1082d

I miss no point Maggie.With respect I'm a minor historianand have lived around Chiswick since 1939.My local grocery, Mr Creek in Gordon Road, used to have a stall at the Indoor Market ... which did exist!

Jim Lawes ● 1082d

Here's a link to the map Jim may be talking about:https://maps.nls.uk/view/103313348and there is a market shown near where the car park in front of the old police station now is - the area was unlikely to  officially have been called market place back then, but there was a place where there was a market.Bet they had less trouble giving a place a name back then though!

Andrew Jones ● 1082d

Jim, just  because there were markets there,  and I don’t doubt it, does not give anyone the right to change the name to suit their purpose. Originally I think there was an attempt to say this area had been called Market Place. Who was it that had a sign made and erected in an attempt to force it on us? I’ve lived in Chiswick for 70 years I don’t claim any rights, just disappointment at the changes foisted on us by a minority.

Maggie Dodge ● 1081d

Andrew, thanks for backing up my point about it never being called Market Place. I bet, back then, nobody ever attempted to force a name change without permission or going through the proper channels, which I believe included asking the opinion of locals, not just “some ” locals

Maggie Dodge ● 1081d

The name Old Market Place is a nod to the area's history and a bit of positive rebranding which can only help attract more people to the area. The alternative name of 'the car park in front of the shut police station' doesn't quite have the same ring to it.On the issue of parking, it doesn't seem to me like the Flower Market deliberately set out to reduce the amount of spaces (apart of course from on the days that they operate). The original proposals saw a reduction  but only because more recent regulations required spaces to be wider.What isn't clear is why there has been such a big reduction in the second design. A lot of weight seems to have been given to the majority of people surveyed apparently being against parking provision at the site but as responses were collected during the markets while people who would normally drive to shop wouldn't be there, we can't conclude this was representative.The proposed drop in spaces is much more material particularly when you take into account those set aside for EV charging. In addition, the situation still isn't clear about what is happening going forward with Sainsbury's. Combined these two measures would result in a massive reduction in available parking in Chiswick. Some people will argue that this is a positive but, if that is the direction we are going it might be wise to do some analysis first on what the impact is likely to be. Generally people seemed happy that Steer did a good job with its analysis of the council's Covid traffic measures, so the firm could be asked to produce a report before any irrevocable changes are made.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 1081d

Ignore the evidence Andrew , that’s fine.  Anti car people (HC) running a car parking removal operation on a regular basis. An amenity if you will.  .Nothing to see here😂. If the name change is brought about as it should be , no problem at all. Has it been done by the correct procedures? Certainly not at the beginning when the sign had to be removed. No one as far as I recall ever owned up to erecting the sign. How very up themselves if you’ll excuse the turn of phrase. Arrogant to think they could do whatever they decided ?  Or did I miss something ? If this was a regular market turned into a car sales yard instead you might view it differently, what do you say ? Shoe other foot!

Maggie Dodge ● 1081d

Andrew, maybe people just started calling it Market Place back then butnothing official as you say.

Janice Evans ● 1081d

Firstly, thanks to Andrew for posting the link to the 1939 map.  I agree it clearly shows an indoor market and the old fire station next door.  However, it also does not describe the road as "Old Market Place" so we can conclude that it was not officially called that in 1939.  No doubt some locals at the time probably had an unofficial name for that patch of road but whether it was "Old Market Place" or "Fire Station Row" or something else no one seems to know.Secondly, it is pretty clear that the invention or possibly reinvention of the name "Old Market Place" was a piece of branding or advertising by someone, whether that someone was or is still linked to the Flower Market we have no idea because that person will not come forward.Other than Sunday when stalls are up, every time I pass the old police station it seems to me that the car parking is pretty full.  Before plans are made to radically change the parking situation surely it would be a good idea to have some research into who is parking, why they are parking there and for how long?

Justin Stephenson ● 1081d

You didn’t really mean to say ‘Ignore the evidence Andrew’ did you Maggie?

Andrew Jones ● 1081d

Justin, your post is about the most sensible one I have read on the issue. Well done. I  pass regularly and also see it is well used.I would add, Chiswick has many young and growing families who need convenient parking near the shops to lug around the kids and all the 'stuff and baggage' comes with them.

Adrian Irving ● 1080d

I’m not sure if you’re in with the “in” crowd Andrew. Or a lone voice. I’mnot sure you know who or what you believe so forgive me if I can’t take you seriously.

Maggie Dodge ● 1080d

You didn’t answer the question I asked Maggie.When you wrote “Ignore the evidence Andrew …” it was, as far as I can see in response to Jeremy’s post.My contribution to this thread was to supply a link to a map that is likely the one that Jim was referring to, and to say it was likely not to have been officially been called Market Place. You even thanked me for providing some information that you said  supported your point of view.Hence, my thinking you used my name by mistake, and asking you if you did.I’d definitely not consider myself to be in any ‘in’ crowd, though I will admit to finding myself mostly disagreeing with what I see as some people’s efforts to have the car as top of the “road capacity food pyramid”.I certainly have changed my mind after some discussions on this forum, and if that’s an indication of not knowing what I believe in so be it.But, that aside, did you mean to use the name Andrew in your line “ignore the evidence Andrew” or was that a mistake on your part?Starting your reply with either ‘yes’ or ‘no’ would be a great first step in answer my question.Thanks.

Andrew Jones ● 1080d

I’ll be honest Andrew I can’t be bothered to read back and answer your question. I’m sure you’ll survive . If I got it wrong then I apologise if that helps you.

Maggie Dodge ● 1080d

You got it wrong Maggie and I accept your apology.

Andrew Jones ● 1080d

On the subject of the car park, I would dispute that it is as heavily used as it has been in the past. At the weekend pre-Covid there were people waiting to get spaces. Now you can more or less drive in at any time.This might be down to changed shopping habits but the closure of one of the entrance points must also be a factor. Unusually there are no signs indicating how to get to the parking spaces so many people unfamiliar with the area may miss the way in.If you speak to business owners in the area you get a mixed picture but some believe this has really hurt them. Although the markets don't help, they take place on a Sunday when there is free parking widely available so the overall impact is less significant than the decline in car park usage.You could argue that a redesign of the car park wouldn't matter because people aren't using the available spaces and a more attractive street scene will bring in more customers. However a drop from 54 to what would be effectively around 20 generally available places would be a big change. Basically it would turn the centre of Chiswick from Monday to Saturday from a place you can probably find somewhere to park to one where you probably won't. That's have wider ramifications.

Francis Rowe ● 1080d

I can’t be the only person who has abandoned shopping in Chiswick. Any confusion over this car park will have affected it. I think we need to remember that not everyone is on here or social media generally. Some must be very confused by all the changes. For all we know some have seen the markets and assumed the car park has gone. At the end of the day Chiswick is in the control of a small group, with their own agenda. Mostly unelected, this is unacceptable.

Maggie Dodge ● 1080d

"Chiswick is in the control of a small group, with their own agenda". You're beginning to sound like Michael Brown.

Robert Fish ● 1080d

He’s not all wrong and neither am I. Am I ? I can’t find any reference to Old Market Place these days. 👍

Maggie Dodge ● 1080d

I was given some background information on the history of markets in Chiswick which, I understand, was based on information from the Chiswick Times and Chiswick library. This is a very potted summary. There was a market in what is now the car park for around six or seven years between the wars. It was set up in August 1919 in response to the price of food. By late February 1920 it had become problematical and, while there were arguments in favour of it, the local chamber of commerce wanted it to be enclosed. It was a key issue in a by-election in 1922 which was won by the candidate who championed the open market. In 1923 there was a public meeting which favoured the market. In 1924 Chiswick District Council was concerned that the cost of cleaning up after market holders was almost the same as the council's income from the stall holders. There were differences of opinion between the council, which favoured the market, and an owner occupier who described it as a motley shambles; it was said that rich local inhabitants were moving out due to "the tumult and crowded condition of the High Road" and that "we should be jealous of the character and tone of our parish and more especially of the High Road". There were concerns about its impact on local property values. A local poll in the same year resulted in a big majority in favour and it was decided that Chiswick would have a permanent market and that the rents should be high enough so as not to undercut shopkeepers. It was moved indoors (to where the closed police station is) and ultimately failed.

Joanna Biddolph ● 1080d

"Before plans are made to radically change the parking situation surely it would be a good idea to have some research into who is parking, why they are parking there and for how long?"I agree.  Which is why, one Saturday in February this year, I spent two hours asking drivers as they were leaving the car park how much they had spent, and on what, while they were parked in the car park. Several said they had parked elsewhere first and wanted to tell me their total spend here but I only wanted to know what they had bought while parked in the car park. The weather was mild. It was half term when many Chiswick residents go away; Ireland was playing against France at rugby with many watching indoors, so Chiswick was much less busy than usual. Parking enforcement officers were on strike and several drivers parked for longer than the maximum two hours, assuming they wouldn’t be fined. The result was a lower turnover of spaces and, therefore, a lower spend per hour. It was more interesting than I was expecting, revealing not just how much was spent but also who was parking there and where they had come from.  It was an impromptu snapshot, not a formal survey that followed Market Research Society guidelines. After publishing it, several people said that the average of £268 per car was wrong and that I should disregard the highest and lowest spends (£6,500 on kitchen equipment and £1,000 on an antique desk - and £1.50 on a small present for a sick child in hospital and £3 on a greetings card).  Whether the hourly calculation is right or wrong, knowing what drivers had bought was a fascinating reminder of the variety we have (and there was no mention of other possible purchases such as a diamond ring or painting which could have been at the top end of the spend) and the total reported to me during those two hours was £12,329. Two points were especially worth noting.  Of the 46 drivers I interviewed (10 refused to speak to me), only eight were from within Chiswick. The others came from Acton, Ashford, Brook Green, Buckinghamshire, Camberley, Colindale, Dorking, Ealing, East Acton, East Sheen, Epsom, Greenford, Hammersmith, Heathrow, Henley, Hillingdon, Isleworth, Kew, Marylebone, Osterley, Queen's Park, Ravenscourt Park, Sandhurst, Shepherd's Bush, Twickenham, Wembley. Chiswick is undoubtedly a retail and hospitality destination. The full survey is here: https://www.chiswickgunnersburyconservatives.org.uk/news/survey-shows-economic-value-chiswicks-central-car-park-and-where-customers-come

Joanna Biddolph ● 1080d

"Chiswick is undoubtedly a retail and hospitality destination"So Hounslow Council has failed to destroy Chiswick and the cycle lane is not deterring motorists from visiting despite the attractions of TK Maxx and Poundland in Greenford.Good to know.

Paul Campbell ● 1080d

The number of parking spaces in Chiswick over the last decade has not changed significantly so there is no evidence of an anti-parking policy in the borough. The Flower Market car park proposal is not official policy and has a long way to go before implementation even assuming it can get funding.Parking charges have been increased, but where in London has this not happened and those in Chiswick are not necessarily higher than neighbouring areas.The only change that I can see is that the central car park has been made less accessible due to the cycleway (a measure initiated by Boris Johnson and effectively funded by central government). This could be mitigated by a couple of 'P' signs on the High Road.The relatively hidden nature of the car park only affects people not from the area as every local will know how to get into it. The idea that a resident is effectively prevented from shopping in Chiswick is a nonsense. There are usually spaces other than at the busiest times and if you are able to walk 200 yards, free parking can be found during the afternoons and at weekends. The Sainsbury's car park provides ample free parking and they never check for minimum spend when you ask for validation on the rare occasions the barrier is down these days.If you have stopped shopping in Chiswick, you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Francis Rowe ● 1079d

Francis, it’s hard to reduce parking spaces when so few exist, wouldn’t you say? As for the Flower Market car park proposal. I could interpret that two ways. Depending on how you break down the sentence. I note the term Old Market Place has been dropped. Why is anyone other than the Council suggesting changes? Perhaps you can explain. As for my shopping elsewhere. Chiswick has nothing to offer me, compared to where I choose to go. I’m happy I have the time. I combine it with meeting friends. It’s my choice and it’s nice that no group can control that part of my life. Happy days as they say .

Maggie Dodge ● 1079d

People living north of the High Road haven't stopped shopping there because of lack of parking or the cycleway, it is because it is much more difficult to get there since Fishers Lane closed.The underpass allowed quick and easy access either to central Chiswick or the Sainsbury's car park. Now you either have to go by Acton Lane or TGT where there are always traffic queues.This has resulted in a big change of behaviour with many people shopping in Acton which has become much quicker to get to and offers free parking. Although I will still walk to Waitrose and sometimes pop into Sainsbury's on the way home to work for larger shopping trips Acton offers much better value and, once you start to explore, a much greater range of products particularly if you like to cook. These days, with everybody's income being squeezed, the wider range of discount stores is really welcome. Even if Fishers Lane reopened I probably wouldn't switch back to shopping more regularly in Chiswick.

Anita Blake ● 1079d

That's a fair point Anita and you are right to highlight its significance.As for Maggie, if you have places you'd rather be than Chiswick that is your prerogative but to say that you have been forced into this due to a lack of parking is nonsense. Whatever you think of the changes that have been made over the past few years, there has been no major reduction in the number of parking spaces in the borough. I don't park in the centre of town very often but, anyone with a bit of local knowledge, should have no problem finding a space and you can often park for free.

Francis Rowe ● 1079d

The reason we have stopped driving to Sainsburys is the traffic queues not the availability of parking. The loss of the recycling facilities is also a factor. As far as I can see usage of the car park is down significantly over the last few years so lots of people seem to have made a similar change. I walk past regularly and I can't remember the last time I saw the exit barrier down. As far as I am aware there is no camera monitoring so you possibly can park there well beyond the two hour limit without paying.

Anita Blake ● 1078d

I’m not sure I said I had been forced to go elsewhere because of a lack of parking. Remind me please.  It’s more the attitude of some residents. When you’ve lived somewhere all your life you accept some changes,  hopefully  for the better .Chiswick is to my mind a mess.  I have chosen to go elsewhere because I can, and because I don’t like the fact that Chiswick is run by the cycle lobby. Starting with the awful LTNs, who chose which roads to close ?  Because of the traffic they cause. Then the ridiculously inappropriate, hellishly expensive cycle lane. Also creating traffic. Then the general bullying of motorists and attempts to rename roads because they think they own the place . That’s all 👍

Maggie Dodge ● 1078d

You told me that it was impossible to reduce parking spaces because so few exist so it isn't unreasonable to assume that is one of the reasons you have been 'forced to go elsewhere'.The reality is that there has been very little change overall in the number of parking spaces over the last few years and, for anyone with local knowledge it has actually become easier to park.The two car parks - the one at Old Market Place and the Sainsbury's one are not as full as they used to be because they have become less accessible as has been highlighted in this thread. If Anita is right about the barriers at Sainsbury's what has changed over the last few years is that Chiswick now has unlimited free parking at its centre.As for closing roads, this has simply not happened in the centre of Chiswick other than at Fishers Lane which does appear to be problematic but, as I understand it, doesn't directly affect you. The only other change has been the removal of the right turn out of Duke Road which most people seem to agree was a sensible measure to reduce risk at the Fishers Lane junction.'The ridiculously inappropriate, hellishly expensive cycle lane' was initiated by Boris Johnson and pushed through by his nominee Andrew Gilligan. The local 'cycle lobby' might have cheered this on but their influence in making it happen was probably zero.Do I think the changes have improved Chiswick overall? No, seems to be far more queueing traffic around the centre of Chiswick than there ever used to be. However, the notion that this doesn't make it a pleasant place to visit and shop is a nonsense.

Francis Rowe ● 1077d

Thank you Joanna for your fine posting about the existance of the previous Market Place / Indoor market between the Wars etc.An excellent contribution.I hope Maggie will eat her rude and critical words to my own posting.

Jim Lawes ● 1077d

Frances. How about an apology for mis quoting me or making assumptions that you can’t back up. Other than that I think it’s time to agree to disagree. I may have time on my hands but I’ve got places to go, many miles from W4

Maggie Dodge ● 1077d

I was actually trying to help you out by suggesting a more rational reason for you boycotting Chiswick than the alternative that you were unhappy that some people had given a car park a new name.Overall the changes being made have reduced the number of people coming to Chiswick and this is really hurting local businesses who were already hurting due to a variety of other factors. For someone who lives in the area to say she too will no longer use local shops, even though the changes don't in any real way make it more difficult for her to visit, just strikes me as perverse.

Francis Rowe ● 1076d

Hi Francis,The number of "dedicated" parking spaces in Central Chiswick may not have significantly diminished in the last few years - I wouldn't know, but what I think no one can dispute is the fact that the availability of post 7pm (and all day sunday) parking space on CHR has significantly reduced on CHR, be it because of CS9, or double yellow lines where there used to be single yellow lines.Some people will say this is good, some will say it's bad, but whatever your view might be, it's a fact. There is plenty of (free) parking available nearby in the evenings.

Andrew Jones ● 1076d

That is true although a lot of these spaces were in bus lanes and very often went unused because people were unsure about whether they could park or not. Their disappearance probably does have some impact on Sunday but during the week, as you point out, there is usually ample space to park in the evening around Chiswick.

Francis Rowe ● 1076d

They were always packed on Sundays - I think you're correct about people being unsure about whether you can park there or not.

Andrew Jones ● 1076d

Trying to help me out by making up my mind for me, you are something else.Bet you’re a cyclists. I thought Chiswick was thriving thanks to cyclists shopping more than motorists, remember that chestnut .

Maggie Dodge ● 1076d

I do cycle but only people like Bradley Wiggins and Laura Kenny are entitled to describe themselves as cyclists.The whole point of my argument was that Chiswick was not thriving and it is quite astonishing you've missed this. You seem incapable of assimilating any point of view that has the slightest bit of nuance.As a number of people have observed, the two main car parks in Chiswick are considerably less well used than they used to be. An important factor in the decline of the Sainsbury's car park is the queues on Acton Lane which are encouraging people north of the High Road to drive in the opposite direction. The Old Market Place car park is seeing declining usage because the main entrance is now closed off and people unfamiliar with the area are unsure how to get into it.How much the decline of use of these car parks is hurting local shops and restaurants is hard to say as it is probably not as material as the overall reduction in spending due to falling disposable incomes and rising costs but it can't be helping in a difficult time.What is not a problem for Chiswick town centre at the moment is a lack of available parking. The issue is that where the parking is is not immediately apparent to a visitor to the area. Your self-defeating boycott of local shops is based on a misconception but you are so obsessed with 'owning the cyclists' that you will refuse to ever accept that.

Francis Rowe ● 1075d

Francis, you’ve given two reasons why the car parks are not used as much. In both cases they’ve been made difficult to access. Fishers Lane access from one side of Chiswick, CLOSED to cars. The Police Station car park, not officially the Old Market Place in any way shape or form (gives your game away by the way) has the entrance BLOCKED There are forces at work making it difficult to park. You’re giving the evidence. I’m not sure if  you realise you’re making my point better than I ever could. If Chiswick dies because of cycle initiatives then my shopping there won’t stop it will it ? At least you’ll have a cheese market etc just not much else.

Maggie Dodge ● 1075d

When I walk along our High Road I am impressed by the bustle of pedestrians and vibrancy of the local shops / cafes / restaurants. Looking forward to the Old Market Place improvements.BTW It was a market place in the old days so what wrong with calling it Old Market Place?

Will Watson ● 1075d

Or New Market Place.

Janice Evans ● 1075d

Nothing wrong with calling it Old Market Place. A good idea in fact.What was not a good idea was for the people behind it to unilaterally put up a fake street name, get the bus stop name changed, have Google maps rename the area without due process.Not only did it give people an uncomfortable sense that a backroom arrangement happened it also lost, for the moment anyway, the opportunity to rename the area officially which most people would be happy with.Just to add a word of praise to the people behind the publicity for the markets, I think they have done an outstanding job. Well done.BTW. That complement is from someone who has built a career in advertising and marketing.

Adrian Irving ● 1075d

These shabby "markets" just at tat to the litter and nuisance. The junk stalls block the pavements - bad enough for the able bodied but a nightmare for anyone with an impairment. They seem to display the same old stuff week in week out so I assume don't sell much.They drive on the pavement; one person leaving drove straight at me from the Pack Horse and Talbot to the corner of Annandale Road, wedging me between him and the railings of the Hogarth statue.Meanwhile they are proposing to cut yet more central parking spaces which means that elderly and disabled will find it even harder to access essential facilities.

Charlotte Kasner ● 1075d

Nothing wrong, nice name,  but it’s only a market place when it suits certain people. The way they went about it said everything about the power they think/thought they yield. That’s  the problem

Maggie Dodge ● 1075d

If it really needs to be changed, and change for the sake of it might mean unnecessary expenditure. New Market Place works too

Maggie Dodge ● 1075d

Will are you deliberately missing the point? The name was chosen and effectively put on the map and name plate on the wall without authorisation. Friends of yours by any chance ?

Maggie Dodge ● 1075d

Someone put up a sign without authorisation? The horror...Chiswick does seem busy at the moment even allowing for the great whether and it is probably a net beneficiary of the WFH phenomenon. However, there are pressures working in the opposite direction. I have to confess that I am one of those northerners who have stopped driving to the High Road. I still go nearly as much as I used to, perhaps even more by foot or by bike, but for larger shops in the car it is now Acton.The difficulty of getting to the High Road since Fishers Lane closed is part of the reason but perhaps more important is the lack of discount retailers. There is no discount supermarket, the Poundland is tiny and shops generally are a bit more expensive. There were some reports of Aldi looking to open in the area but, it is hard to see where they could locate a reasonable sized store. The only store in Chiswick that offers a really good choice at low prices is the Leyland DIY shop.

Mark Evans ● 1075d

They seem to be quite busy when I pass so I assume they're quite popular?

Nora Watkins ● 1075d

Would people prefer to have the parking though ? Was there a consultation. I know they’re often ignored but curious as to how these markets came about? Whose brain child?

Maggie Dodge ● 1075d

Mark “ Someone put up a sign without authorisation? The horror...”No they didn’t put up a “sign”. They attempted to change a street name without authorisation!!!! Imagine coming home to find you suddenly lived at a different address, because someone decided they’d like it called something different. A member of the public had a street name sign made and erected without permission. What next? You really think that’s no big deal? Interesting that you’ve stopped shopping locally. Apparently Chiswick has everything you could need according to Guy Lambert. Closing Fishers Lane is an improvement too. As a cyclist you must see the benefits.

Maggie Dodge ● 1074d

Yes, I really think it isn't a big deal. Calling a car park 'Old Market Place' might be a bit of faux heritage but if people are trying to get this to stick - good luck to them and their unauthorised signs.I didn't say I had stopped shopping locally, I said I had stopped driving to Chiswick to shop. As most shops are done by foot or bike this means little change in the number of times I visit. Chiswick does have a good range of retailers other than discount stores where it is deficient. This doesn't matter so much if you are getting a loaf and some milk but if you are stocking up for the week it makes a material difference.On Fishers Lane, I've always been of the opinion that the closure provides a net disbenefit to cyclists as it is much more difficult to proceed down Acton Lane and South Parade than it used to be but I accept it has made the environment around Chiswick Back Common much more pleasant.

Mark Evans ● 1074d

No problem 😂Is this just the name of the car park or the street. Would it affect the businesses?I thought you said you’d started shopping in Acton, my mistake. You think closing Fishers Lane is a net disbenefit to cyclists ?  It’s definitely not good for motorists and creates pollution and traffic problems in many surrounding areas. So the only benefit in your opinion is that it has made the area around Chiswick Back Common much more pleasant. Worth it then ? You mean that great big open space that it was easy to get far enough away from the road anyway? I don’t know why I bother and yes I should definitely stop.

Maggie Dodge ● 1074d

There are lots of other benefits. Next to the road is a playground which was quite difficult to cross when the underpass was open. There are also other benefits such as less traffic going past the health centre site and Belmont School and no queueing traffic outside the accommodation for the elderly on Fishers Lane.There is no point in pretending these don't exist. On balance I don't believe they outweigh the disbenefits of the closure but it is far from clear cut.

Mark Evans ● 1074d

The same old stupid comments.  Belmont school is not affected, it’s along way round the corner and still has traffic on both sides. Similarly the accommodation for the elderly still has traffic, on two sides, possibly people visiting the elderly in those flats.  On the other hand the nursery at St Albans church now has very heavy traffic because of the traffic diverted. . Traffic also queues by Acton Green.  The part of Fishers Lane that’s closed affects only the playground there. There’s still traffic on one side. Used it for many years for my children and grandchildren without noticing heavy traffic because it flowed.

Maggie Dodge ● 1073d

Also as posted elsewhere “Many might say this C49 so-called cycle route is an unnecessarily convoluted and artificial fabrication, but there it is, and there’s white paint on the road to prove it!”

Maggie Dodge ● 1073d

Belmont School very definitely is affected and the school has voiced support for the changes. Traffic southbound would use Belmont Road as a way of getting to Chiswick High Road and to Sainsbury's and traffic going north would cut up Belmont Road to get to Fisher's Lane. Since the closure traffic going passed the school has dropped significantly.This is clearly a benefit and while you can't deny that this is the case you are right that there is an offset in that many people north of the underpass are suffering extra traffic. The nursery you mention may now be closed but there is a clear deterioration in the local environment. I'm not saying the closure of the underpass is right just that there are winners and losers.On C49 I don't disagree with a single word of the statement you shared.

Mark Evans ● 1072d

Mark, I recall the Headmistress was in favour of the Fishers Lane closure. However. why is the school so affected by traffic. My children attended many years ago. Things may have changed. Is the main playground on Dolman Road? How often are the children outside?  How many hours is the school open? 5 days a week? Nurseries tend to have babies and toddlers out more often . Should we close Dolman Road too? Make  everyone use the High Road?

Maggie Dodge ● 1072d

Perhaps you should address those questions to the headteacher. As I recall the headteacher wrote on behalf of the governing body, it was not her personal view.

Stewart Jones ● 1072d

I suspect you live in hope Sir.

Mark Frost ● 1072d

Wow it is absolutely packed out there today. What a fantastic market day. Lucky all the Chiswick drivers have left for the day because there was absolutely no room for them in The Old Marketplace.

Paul Campbell ● 1069d

I don’t think the Head or parents should get a say, so I won’t be asking . The only people who appear to have a say is cyclists and people with influence wholive in what are now LTNs, who may be one and the same. I don’t get a say in who drives past my house. Houses with babies and young children nearby. I didn’t get a say about the CPZ that means I have to pay to park in my street and I have to pay for visitors to visit.

Maggie Dodge ● 1069d

Any cheesed off Chiswickians Paul?

Mark Frost ● 1069d

Maybe Chiswick motorists were aware of the odour of Epoisse in the air and kept well away.

Jim Lawes ● 1069d

Paul you are a Chiswick driver 👍😂

Maggie Dodge ● 1069d