Forum Topic

Eon - Your electricity meter has reached the end of its life....

....and there's a legal obligation to get a smart meter installed, which I absolutely do not want. Is this a cunning ploy to enforce me to have one? Advice please.

Jill Merrett ● 615d50 Comments

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2023-10-23/4bn-in-uk-public-pensions-funding-oil-giants-drilling-new-wells-in-the-north-sea

Philippa Bond ● 544d

https://news.sky.com/story/major-energy-suppliers-to-pay-10-8m-for-not-meeting-smart-meter-targets-13003806Ofgem has fined six major energy companies for their poor roll out of smart meters.  The customer will no doubt have to pay this just like they have to pay up when an energy company goes bust.

Philippa Bond ● 544d

Hi Jill - I ve just posted about this on the compulsory smart meter thread; there is a template available for  objecting to having a smart meter. Go to  www.saveusnow.org and put  smart meter objection in the search box. There seem to be 11 grounds you can object on - mainly relating to health I think. Good luck.

Anna Kirkpatrick ● 544d

bump for David Marles

Jill Merrett ● 601d

You cannot be forced to replace it but you will receive many reminders. I experienced this recently with a meter on a church - reception very weak and did not want a smart meter. I was told only smart meters after being manufactured so the only ‘heritage’ meters available  were second hand ones removed from properties who changed to smart meters but they would put me on the list. A year later I got a more forceful reminder and was then told there were no heritage meters and no engineers to deal with them as all now only trained I. Smart meters.  I succumbed though I was of course right about the problem caused by lack of signal and they will need to add an aerial to it!

Elizabeth Jane Daley ● 612d

To put it in perspective kitchen equipment is not usually running constantlyFor 24 hours a day, if you already suffer headaches or sleepless nights it's a recommendation to keep a distance from those that are running for 24hours such as routers or meters as they can cause those symptoms.

Janice Evans ● 612d

It's a recommendation not because it's dangerous but to be on the safe side if concerned.

Janice Evans ● 612d

Low frequency or non-ionising electro-magnetic radiation from domestic appliances such as smart meters, microwaves and network routers is highly unlikely to be dangerous to adultsThat is not my view but the view of the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences (US government agency).But for the poster who thinks it is dangerous to be within 10 feet of a network router, I suggest that they never be in the kitchen when the microwave is on, and probably not if the toaster is on

Justin Stephenson ● 612d

Well, the Money Saving Expert article seems pretty definitive, thanks for that Jill.Here's the link if anyone is still interested.https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/can-i-be-forced-to-have-a-smart-meter/

Bruce Hammal ● 612d

Thank you for all your helpful and informative replies. Much appreciated.It would appear that I do have to have a new meter fitted, and most probably a smart one. Interestingly there's a thread running on Martin Lewis' MSE forum, which addresses this.For the moment I shall continue to ignore Eon. My meter is inside my home. I'll let you know how I get on. But I fear the worst.

Jill Merrett ● 612d

I've read that all old meters are now considered to be at the end of their lives because the Govt wants everybody to move onto smart meters (although apparently you don't have to have one).  I've also read info that saying that to have a new old type of meter would be very costly and is not being offered. If a smart meter does not work then I guess that is the only option though.  I wouldn't want an argument of the amount of electricity you have used during any period that the smart meter is not working so you had better make sure that you have some record of what you usually use to feel confident of where you stand if there is one.What I can tell you for sure is that the letters will keep on coming!

Philippa Bond ● 613d

If you don't have a smart meter you will be unable to take advantage of special lower rate tariffs that may be introduced by your supplier eg those for off peak hours.  In fact weren't there companies paying consumers for using electricity during off peak hours?  It all depends on when and how you use electricity.

Philippa Bond ● 613d

" I don’t get the problem with smart meters "Remote disconection as a result of a software foul-upor malicious activity for one.With a conventional meter in order to disconnect you they have to physically turn up outside or inside your house and actually disconnect wires. Something they're unlikely to do by mistakeor someone else would do out of malice.With smart meters they're supposed to tell you first.Howver this won't apply if there's a software error or the system is hacked. When one person or entire streets could lose their supply. While the supplier spends the next week trying to work out what's happenedand getting everybody re-connected.At some time in the future they're presumably going to have to offer customers a financial incentive to change as clearly in the event of power cuts it willmake sense to be able to serve only priority usershospitals, care homes the police etc.michael adams 

Michael Adams ● 613d

According to GovUK the life of a meter is 10 years for newly approved induction meters and up to 20 years for static meters.

Janice Evans ● 613d

Jill, you never said you would want to change your meter so thought you would just keep the one you have, do you know how old your meter is.

Janice Evans ● 613d

Bernard I had my electric meter changed soon after smart meters were available and I never knew any of the problems that could arise, I ask theman if he was fitting a smart meter and he said NO thankfully because Iwouldn't want one now unless it was outside.  if they offered to move my meter outside I might consider having ne although have heard your pricesincrease with a smart meter, not sure if that is true of every meter but haveread of some cases.

Janice Evans ● 613d

It doesn't have to be a smart meter, any old water meter will do to make savings. A connected meter (i.e. smart) just means nobody needs come out  to take a reading. I naively assumed they visited on a regular basis but discovered belatedly that in the almost 5 years I have lived in this house, the meter had only been read once - when we moved in. All my bills had been based on estimates. I took my own reading and got a decent amount credited to my account. The last house we lived in had one fitted when Thames Water changed all the pipework in the street  but we opted to stick with the old rateable value as a basis for the bill. Belatedly however we switched to paying for what we actually used and the difference was amazing, we saved a lot of money. I would strongly advise anyone with a larger property but not a large number of occupants to seriously consider switching to a meter.

Bruce Hammal ● 613d

Did you have a non-smart water meter before, or is the 40% reduction compared to rateable value ? Let's hope your Thames Water smart meter is more successful than ours - we noticed on June 1st that it no longer showed a reading, reported the issue to TW immediately, and after three abortive engineer visits with the wrong parts to fix or replace it, it was finally replaced on September 12th. We are waiting with bated breath to see how they decide to bill for the three month plus period when it was not working.

Richard Greenhough ● 613d

I have no problem with Thames Water changing to a smart meter and have lived here for over 10 years, just wondered why they did not inform me. But a gas or electric meter you say companies they need my permission to change.

Nick Pallister ● 613d

Delighted that Thames Water has fitted a smart water meter. My bill has reduced by around 40% with no change in use.

N V Brooks ● 613d

There's an obligation to have a water meter installed when a property changes ownership or in new-builds. In other words when previously the bill would have been based on the property's old rateable value. However I doubt that once a meter of any sort has been installed you have any say in when Thames Water choose to swap it for a smart version. The only issue might be with access if the meter is inside the property boundaries. There is an ongoing rolling programme of replacement so it will happen to everyone eventually. It's a different situation with regard to gas and electricity meters which can only be replaced with smart versions by agreement. As far as we know....

Bruce Hammal ● 614d

Thames Water changed my meter to a smart meter without my knowledge in February this year. I only found out when I queried a bill, they told me they didnt need to inform me before or after installation as it was outside my property.I wonder if gas or electric companies can do the same if the meter is outside your property.

Nick Pallister ● 614d

And still, answer came there none!We know that you can't be forced to have a smart meter, however I suspect you are obliged to have an old meter replaced when it is deemed to have reached an age where it can no longer be relied on to be measuring consumption accurately. This has been the case since long before the arrival of smart meters. Jill wants to know if she can ask for her current meter to be replaced like for like, or will she have no choice but to have a smart meter, either through a loophole in the legislation or possibly because old-style meters are no longer available. I think it will require a conversation with the supplier to find out - although I'm sure the call-centre's remit will be to cajole her into giving in. What happens if and when she refuses?

Bruce Hammal ● 614d

How do they know it has reached the end of its life? Has it actually died or have they inspected it and found it was on its last legs? Just curious.

Marlene Plimley ● 614d

This happened last September in Colorado. Around 22,000 people  were locked out of their smart thermostats and lost control of temperatures in their homes for hours.

Marlene Plimley ● 614d

No she cannot be “forced” to take one (although personally I don’t see any issue with having one.)“ Do I have to have a smart meter?Unless there is a good reason not to, suppliers must install a smart meter if they are: replacing a meterinstalling a meter for the first time, such as in a new property.****You can choose NOT to accept an offer to have a smart meter fitted.*******https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/getting-smart-meter

Michael Good ● 614d

fromhttps://www.smartenergygb.org/Are smart meters compulsory: do you have to have a smart meter by law?No, smart meters are not compulsory. This means it's entirely your choice whether you get a smart meter. You will be offered a smart meter by your energy supplier before the end of the smart meter rollout, but it’s up to you whether you accept one.The government requires energy suppliers to offer smart meters to all homes and small businesses across Great Britain by the end of 2025. But whether you get a smart meter is completely up to you.We recommend that you consider getting a smart meter for a variety of reasons. Smart meters and the accompanying in-home display could help you stay in control of your energy bills. They’re also helping to upgrade Britain's energy systemA spy in the home?

James Roy ● 614d

That's the crux of it Bernard. While accepting that Jill's old meter may have reached the point at which it should be replaced, the question remains - can she choose to have it swapped out for a similar "dumb" device or can she be forced to accept a smart meter? That's all she wants to know - as do I.

Bruce Hammal ● 614d

I don't know of anyone that has experienced that.However, it is a non zero possibility.I agree what you say about the privacy aspect. I expect it applies to the vast majority of the population. I wasn't talking about privacy though.An attack with a stuxnet virus destroyed about 900 centrifuges in Iran that were part of a covert Iranian nuclear programme.Not beyond the realms of possibility that power to houses in the UK could be disabled by a nefarious operator.

Andrew Jones ● 614d

Janice I’ve worked on 11,000  volt switch gear most of my working life.There’s lots of nasties to deal with when installing this type of switch gear, which you have to try and minimise the harmful risk to the work force.The old oil circuit breakers (OCB) were insulated with an oil which was found to carcinogenic, it’s also used for insulating transformers as well, so the correct PPE had to be worn. Many types of insulating material has been tried over the years, one was a vacuum insulated breaker, but a problem was found that when switched on and off, the ark drawn from the contacts that were about inline with you groin area were similar to being in an X-ray room unprotected.There were thoughts at the time, this could render the male engineer impotent.After all that, your worried about being near a router or a smart meter ?

Bernard Allen ● 614d

Jill Doesn’t this go some way to answer you question Just like food, each electricity meter is given a ‘best before’ date when it’s manufactured. This is called a certification date which is set by the Office for Product Safety and Standards (OPSS). Once a meter has passed its certification date, we need to replace it. This ensures the energy you use is always measured accurately to the levels specified by the OPSS.But I suppose you could ask for a traditional meter in exchange

Bernard Allen ● 614d

Fair point Jill - I'd like to know too! Looks like you will be our test case! So far I have just ignored my supplier's increasingly desperate attempts to get me to sign up for one of these things, including a claim that I had to have one because it was a condition of my "new tariff". Since I hadn't changed tariff I just ignored it and will continue to do so. Why? Because I can see no way in which a smart meter would benefit me - or my supplier for that matter. I provide them with a reading online on the same date every month which is absolutely no inconvenience whatsoever. I have no interest in sitting and watching a display showing me minute by minute what my energy consumption is, and last but not least I don't want some barely-trained oaf on piece-work crawling about in my under-stairs cupboard which also houses ethernet wiring, router, alarm system and CCTV gear about which he knows nothing and cares less.Wait and see would be my advice.

Bruce Hammal ● 614d

Well, this is all fascinating, but no one has actually answered my question!

Jill Merrett ● 614d

You should be minimum. 10 ft away from a router.

Janice Evans ● 614d

"elctromagnetic radiation" Have they got a smart meter on the space station then

Julian Pavey ● 614d

Should say devices.

Janice Evans ● 614d

Both smart meters and wireless devises emit RF radiation.

Janice Evans ● 614d

Something to do with the elctromagnetic radiation, reports they can explode.

Janice Evans ● 614d

Janice Evans Have you heard of a smart meter directly overheat and cause a fire ?A smart meter if correctly installed,  has a normal mains  contact arrangement which is designed to carry a domestic supply, but instead of the Magnets an spinning disc, which are replaced by electronics.But I agree That any Old type meter or smart Meter incorrectly installed could over heat and potently start a fire. The Meter could be faulty. I've seen some very old meters  Which were overloaded and the the cable terminals burn out, but its the wiring that normally starts to melt and eventually arcs and catches light to the wooden boardthe meter is mounted on.Now this happens to the old standard type meter why is the smart meter, now all of a sudden the culprit

Bernard Allen ● 614d

AndrewI would like to know someone that's had that done to them and know the reasons why.If People are worried about the privacy aspect to smart meters there's more chance of you privacy being breached by the now smart gadgets around your home. Like a smart tv, smart security cameras and many more all linked through the internet.I posted a while ago about a relative that doesn't watch live TV so doesn't have to have a TV licence they also doesn't have an TV Arial, but because the tv is linked through the internet, there oldest child deicide to watch a film on the BBC i player which was showing on live TV, and a week later they received a bill for using the BBC service. So That means all the apps you sign up to on a smart TV gives out all of your personal details, talking about big brother watching you. Before long your security cameras will be spying on you if there installed inside your property.

Bernard Allen ● 614d

Also a faulty smart meter could overheat and cause a fire so if inside likeours we don't want one.

Janice Evans ● 614d

A disadvantage of a smart meter is that it can be made to turn off the supply of electricity to your house.If it can be done remotely by someone who is authorised to do so, there's a non zero chance that the same could be done by others.

Andrew Jones ● 615d

Yes I changed twice and both  suppliers were able to find the meters that were registered in the grid. As each meter has an original registration number and is listed on the power grid.Even though my smart meters were of the first generation, when conversing with Octopus about would you need to update the smart  meters the person who I was talking to, he said no problem, we can read the fist generation  smart meters all we need is the grid address of the smart meters from your last supplier and we will take over. On the date agreed. All went well with the switch over even with my last supplier going bust and the supplier before that as well who installed the smart meters in the first place.

Bernard Allen ● 615d

Have you tried changing supplier since your smart meters were fitted ? It seems that not all suppliers can read all smart meters.

Richard Greenhough ● 615d

Just like food, each electricity meter is given a ‘best before’ date when it’s manufactured. This is called a certification date which is set by the Office for Product Safety and Standards (OPSS). Once a meter has passed its certification date, we need to replace it. This ensures the energy you use is always measured accurately to the levels specified by the OPSS.

Bernard Allen ● 615d

Yes, Gas’s and electricity, and I’ve had no problems what so ever

Bernard Allen ● 615d

"I don’t get the problem with smart meters ?"Have you got one ? I have direct experience of an electric smart meter being read by one company but not by two who came after them; of a gas smart meter that was read by one company but not by their successors, despite their changing the meter twice; and of a smart water meter that packed in in June and was only replaced this week. In theory they should be a good idea; in my experience, they are just one more hassle.

Richard Greenhough ● 615d

I don’t get the problem with smart meters ?

Bernard Allen ● 615d

They can only make you change it if it is a safety hazard or not functioning correctly.

Janice Evans ● 615d

They try this all the time, we just say we don't want one, unless your meteris very old don't think there is any need to change it.

Janice Evans ● 615d