Forum Topic

The long slow decline of Devonshire Road

After reading the item about the change of use for the Italian Job, I took a walk down Devonshire Road on evening recently.It seemed to have visibly declined since the last time I walked along it, although there were lots of new businesses, there were quite a few gone in the few months since I was last there. The attempt to create a table cafe culture seems to have faltered. Although it was a pleasant warm evening there were few people sitting out and although access restrictions were meant to able there were a steady stream of vehicles using the road. Are the restrictions actually enforced? If not it looks like residents to the south have worked out they can drive through as they have always done. This means that the restrictions serve only to discourage potential customers confused by the signs.However, it would be wrong to blame recent measures for what is happening. The real problem seems to be the relentless push of residential into what used to be a commercial area. The Feathers went a long time ago but we have also seen the sites of the Duke of York and the Devonshire Arms converted into residential. Retail and commercial space south of Ingress Street has virtually disappeared.There are some positive signs. The Whispering Oyster has clearly attracted more people to the end of the street and that will be an important bellwether for its ongoing health but that was a rare bright spot. One cafe owner I know there says that many of the first floor units in the area which previously were offices have now been converted to residential and therefore it has become much more difficult to operate and get licence extensions. He thought that the lack of a hospitality industry tenant for the cafe restaurant site was  due to uncertainty over future licensing hours.To me the potential of this road is great but it appears to be being shifted in the wrong direction at the moment. A strategy needs to be developed that ensures the robustness of hospitality businesses there particularly and pushes back on the encroachment of residential.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 1157d180 Comments

We still do. I run a business here  in Devonshire Road and all but I think two of the business are run by their owners. I notice that some  of the comments are not based on any real fact and instead are opinion. As a business owner here it is really quite difficult to read some of this thread because of the ill informed speculation. Devonshire is a wonderful road full of independent businesses run by dedicated, hardworking and resourceful shop keepers .We are ordinary people trying to support our families during a very difficult time for us all . If you stroll along Devonshire Road you will see so much effort from the shop owners to create a wonderful shopping street. We are all regularly in touch with each other to discuss matters that affect the street and talk to the relevant agencies should we need ( for example street cleansing etc) .I am completely aware that the traffic / parking situation causes divided opinion, but I can say based on the conversations I had with fellow shop owners that there didn’t to me seem to be a strong push to “ bring cars back to the road” , in fact most were happy with a compromise  and indeed expressed that in a questionnaire. We had meetings and there was never from my observations a strong desire to have the road back to how it was in terms of traffic rather it seemed that the majority understood and appreciated that safer streets and less pollution was a no brainier but it was felt no one was listening to concerns shopkeepers had about how changes may affect their businesses. It seems very easy to condemn any business who dare suggest that a car may sometimes be needed to collect goods from them but I suspect anyone saying so has never ran a independent shop / family business and perhaps does not appreciate the problems / challenges that may occur.  I really struggle to understand that there is on both sides an inability to see spectrum of issues. Behind these shop fronts are people trying to earn an honest living and like us all are facing a recession and cost of living crisis and so some uninformed opinions on this thread quite simply hurt.

Penny Ledbury ● 1155d

Charlotte, thanks for you post. It nicely encapsulates the point I was trying to make originally. There is an inevitably tension between a road which has a predominance of hospitality businesses and an increasing number of residents in the area.You don't deserve to be put in the same category as people who move into converted offices above bars and restaurants in the road and then make objections. Previously Whispering Oyster had been an antiques shop so you are entitled to complain about the degradation of your quality of life. When I say 'bright spot' this is from the point of view of Devonshire Road as a leisure destination but I do appreciate that this means noise and inconvenience for people who live there. I still believe established businesses should have protection from newly arrived residents.The situation with the restrictions is as I thought. They are not being enforced which means the worst of both worlds for traders. Residents of the Glebe Farm estate, who always made up the bulk of traffic, are driving through as normal. People unfamiliar with the area including potential customers are discouraged by the very confusing signs and just go elsewhere.Tom will cite a whole host of research which he says shows that traders always overestimate the proportion of business they get from people who need to park. Many businesses in the area insist that convenient parking is vital to their business. The disconnect probably comes from the surveys considering revenue rather than bottom line. A 10% fall in customers can result in a 100% fall in profits.Penny seems to have finally realised it is impossible to have a sensible discussion with Mr Campbell but well done to her for trying. He seems very much like a child Red Guard during the Cultural Revolution. Try to make a point to him and he will just repeat back slogans, mantras and insults without making an attempt to consider what you say. So 'capitalist running dog' has become 'car brained petrolhead'. It's best to just ignore him if possible.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 1153d

In one of the earlier posts by Jayne she pointed out, in her opinion, that rent, rates and "greedy" Landlords were all to blame for the slow decline of Chiswick.There are a number of misconceptions here that merit comment. Firstly, in a supply and demand economy the suggestion (if you think about it carefully) of "zero rates" would ultimately benefit landlords more than tenants. Yes Devonshire Road would have more instant appeal for retail tenants (less outgoings) but there would be more demand from other retailers to locate here, ie, increased competition and ultimately higher rents. The landlord benefits from third party interference and the tenant loses in that the increase in rent probably outweighs not paying rates.Secondly, not all landlords are "greedy". With the retail market on its knees several W4 landlords that I know work hard to keep their tenants trading either through rent holidays, rent reductions and/or paying for property improvements.Thirdly, the vast majority of "upper parts" above retail space was originally residential, surely reverting to same increases footfall and adds more to the vibrancy of a street than an empty office? For example, look what a blot on the landscape the upper parts are above Paperchase in the High Road, a shameful waste of accommodation.Finally, Paul makes a v good point ref the pedestrianisation of Devonshire Road, its future success must exclude vehicles, however, Penny has a fantastic shop, she offers brilliant service and she would succeed if her shop was on the hard shoulder of the M4!

Andrew Cole ● 1152d

The hypothesis here is that business people always overestimate the importance of the availability of car parking to their turnover.The evidence to support this is various studies that seem to indicate this is the case. However, most of this research seems to have been specifically commissioned to support a policy choice or the broader aim of increasing active travel.By the same token I have seen a consultant's report providing an impressive array of evidence why a shopping centre development needs to have the largest car park possible based on the average spend of customers who drive being significantly larger.It therefore seems to me that, even if there is a tendency of businesses to over-estimate the value of parking, the ability to park easily still has a material impact. As has previously been mentioned, the research that suggests otherwise may have been misled by a misunderstanding of the difference between turnover and profit because of the lack of business knowledge of the researchers.Whatever the actual position there is no basis here to say - we can remove parking without consequences on local businesses so let's implement a policy of doing so. It would appear this is a view shared by Hounslow Council who have striven to replace lost parking spaces due to C9. The borough planners seem to acknowledge the value of parking space and I would assume that is based on research and good professional practice.Much as Tom would like to discount the evidential value of what local businesses say, the research available is not sufficiently robust to allow him to do that so their views still need to be taken into account. Parking availability will help some more than others, for instance I recently saw someone loading a car with a bulk order of dog food from Chiswick Pets, something that would have been impractical if parking wasn't available.It would be interesting to hear more from businesses based there but to me the obvious problem at the moment is the way the access restrictions operate. There is no enforcement so local traffic continues to drive through as it always did but potential customers are discouraged by the forbidding and confusing access signs. There is no benefit to anyone from the current arrangements and some very clear disbenefits. Scrapping them would be a quick win in my view but ultimately the decision should be driven by the businesses on Devonshire Road.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 1151d

Tom, not sure that data from 'a couple of traders' on TGT during an exceptional pandemic, when many people were forced to stay local, tell us very much. Also Penny seems generally to support the current arrangement that allows daytime access with evening restrictions, though we know these are not enforced. Whereas you and Paul seem to be arguing for closures. This is a typical and depressing thread. We have the usual activists who have never run a retail or hospitality business lecturing others on how they should do this. Pre current restrictions I never felt traffic on Devonshire Road as problematic whether going there to eat/ drink or shop, nor did I want to sit in the gutter to eat when this was an option, though maybe some other did. If we want to turn Devonshire Road into some form of pedestrian piazza, it would need a proper plan and community and business engagement. It may though bring conflicts with local residents in the evenings, as this thread already highlights, as well as raise concerns for some business that need access. If a consensus is found and plan adopted then great, but as with too many things it seems a small vocal group demands changes and then villifies those with any opposition.The local pet shop is a great community asset and the sort that has disappeared from many areas. Their needs should be properly considered and not discounted, as should those of other shops. Tom mentioned traffic cutting up from Hogarth roundabout on Devonshire Road which 'should' be on Chiswick Lane. Posts about HGVs getting stuck on Devonshire Rd show there is a problem. But part of the problem is the new layout at junction of Chiswick Lane/ CHR. Northbound there were two lanes, now only one. Combined with changes to light phasing we have less northbound capacity on Chiswick Lane and longer queues so mapping apps will divert traffic. Interesting story the other day about delays on King St in Hammermith where one of the lanes has gone for CS9. While it seems there were no 'significant' bus delays, traffic would back up regularly behind buses when they stopped at the stop by Boots. This would then back onto the gyratory and see knock on delays for this key route. It seems TFL acknowledge that nothing can be done. So here we have one of the main interchanges that traffic 'should' be on that sees capacity cut leading to more congestion. Yes there are too many cars, but no evidence that moving them around has really changed that with London still the most congested city in 2022 and bus speeds now lower than pre COVID. Most depressing of all to see that front page that any prospect of an accessible tube station in W4 has gone. If only we had an MP or local authority that would push the issue on our behalf as we saw in H&F and the MP there. Public transport is key.

Bill George ● 1151d

The emphasis of my original post was on the way the encroachment of residential use has made things more difficult for the remaining businesses on Devonshire Road. I don't see how anyone can dispute this because hospitality businesses have entirely disappeared from south of Ingress Street. There is a planning application currently with the council for another change of use from commercial with residential. With residential prices inflated and the huge demand for housing combined with the massive cost pressures and state of the economy for retailers, there is no reason to believe that this long slow trend won't continue.I didn't mean the thread to become about parking but just pointed out that unenforced access restrictions deliver the worst of both world's for local businesses. It would have not been incorrect for anyone to conclude from that, that enforcement is one possible solution to be considered.The important thing that we should all agree on is that this shopping street is hugely valuable to the area and should be nurtured and protected. I find the notion that because some research in other areas suggests that some traders might have overestimated the importance of parking to their business means that the opinion of our local traders has less value to be a dangerous one that could be used to justify dogmatic measures against the interest of businesses. Thankfully, I don't think the council accept the validity of the contention that business people don't know their own business.We should ABSOLUTELY listen to what they say and whatever measures are delivered should be primarily decided by them. If they collectively opted for arrangements that were much more restrictive of vehicles using the road I'd be delighted. I think it can be stated with some confidence that nobody is content with the way things currently are.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 1151d

I couldn’t agree more. Talking to people who cling to the belief that you cannot improve any street by reducing the blight of cars and creating space for people because they are convinced traffic is a constant and must be diverted elsewhere is extremely tedious when there is abundant evidence from London and everywhere else that tries it that total volume of cars reduces when you reduce the space given to them. These people choose to live in denial because they have cognitively surrendered and cannot accept the facts. It’s why they resort to conspiracy theories and try to divert the topic. Through drivers and excessive parking are massively limiting the potential of Turnham Green Terrace aa a destination for shoppers and diners and only the most stubborn of reactionary fools cannot see it.And it is extremely foolish to imagine that wasting time trying to get a lift at Turnham Green Station is going to be anywhere near as effective as simply taking space away from cars and giving it back to people. Every politician elected in Chiswick in the past thirty years has made empty promises about it and then proceeded to achieve absolutely nothing of any import to improve Chiswick as a shopping destination. A long line of useless ditherers and blathers. Just like the Richmond Lib Dems who refuse to do anything about Mortlake and East Sheen traffic blight while pretending it will be solved by opening a bridge to cars when they know very well that will never happen. So be my guest and crack on with a futile campaign for a lift while serious people get on with making actual positive and impactful change happen.

Paul Campbell ● 1150d