Forum Topic

Mugging of school children and a teacher

There have been several muggings of teenage school children in the Barnes area (generally near the station and generally after school). Always three youths, assumed male but are wearing masks/balaclavas and black hoodies/black clothing. They are looking specifically for iPhones and sometimes claim to be carrying a knife. They have now targeted Chiswick - there have been recent incidents in the pathway that leads from Chiswick Rail Station through to Barnes (by Russell Kerr Place). Last week a teacher from a local school was mugged and then this morning another school child. School leaders are liaising with police and teachers are patrolling the route to/from school but this does not seem to act as a deterrent.I hadn’t noticed anything on the W4 site so thought I would make people aware who may not know this is happening and might provide sightings/information about the youths concerned.

Hayley Shah ● 1165d42 Comments

Thanks Hayley. Can’t believe the police aren’t on this.

Jacqueline Whiston ● 1165d

Thank's again.A couple of lads fitting your description were in my neck of the woods, masked and riding high speed electric bikes.The police were called who showed up in a large 4x4 Volvo  giving them little or no chance of catching them.These are dangerous people and need to be caught. The cops need to fight fire with fire, leave the Volvos behind and patrol on fast bikes. Zero chance of this happening of course.

Adrian Irving ● 1165d

According to ‘Nextdoor’ there was another mugging yesterday at Richmond Circus, this time 2 muggers on e scooters, pushed schoolboy off his bike and took his phone etc that was in his bag. I agree police on fast bikes would be more useful than 4x4 vehicles

Hayley Shah ● 1165d

The worry for the police is if they chase these scumbags and they have an accident, the community will rise up against them as happened in Cardiff. Hi-speed chases on electric scooters or e-bikes through the streets of London are fraught with danger.

Richard Greenhough ● 1165d

Robberies of school children have been endemic for over two decades in this area and I believe very few of the contemporaries of my children got through their teenage years without being hit once and that is quite some time ago.I ditched NextDoor some time ago because about half the messages were about some sort of petty crime often reported second hand, so that may be contributing to an impression that the problem is increasing.Only way to mitigate the problem then was to make sure they had an out of date phone. Don't know whether than still would be helpful advice?

Francis Rowe ● 1165d

So either carry an old phone or don't go after them at all in case it upsets the locals. Problem solved.My goodness what a wishy washy response.I've never been mugged although one little squirt though about it, sensibly backing off, but the upset to the victims and their parents is immeasurable.Time for the police to take action, we're fed up with excuses.

Adrian Irving ● 1165d

You make the solution sound so obvious. There's more risk to pursuing the muggers than simply upsetting the locals. As Richard points out, high-speed chases are fraught with danger - not just to the muggers but also to members of the public.

Robert Fish ● 1164d

Another example of the effect of the 'low level' crime approach from the showers that be,to go with the low level of visible police and the low level of accountability to which miscreants are held.No wonder there is a growing number of older or vulnerable people too scared to go out at night.New York found a solution to most of these scenarios,but they have visible policing,not just cops rushing around in cars responding to emergencies like here.

Keith Iddon ● 1164d

Some people are now so risk adverse I am surprised the get out of bed in the morning.Of course there are risks but no risk no gain. Police are involved in high speed chases every day in motor vehicles that have the potential to do far more damage that a high speed electric bike.The solution is obviously not turn up in a 4x4 but to equip the police with a mode of transport that gives them a goodish  chance of catching and or deterring these highway men.Perhaps you would rather do nothing but wringing hands when someone is seriously hurt or worse.

Adrian Irving ● 1164d

"Perhaps you would rather do nothing but wringing hands when someone is seriously hurt or worse". That, as even you must surely realise, is a patently false dichotomy. There are other things which can be done, instead of charging after the muggers on powered two-wheelers. Prevention is better than cure, and a combination of better intelligence and more boots on the ground (particularly targeted at locations where this type of crime is committed) would be not only less risky but also more effective.

Robert Fish ● 1164d

Your solution of physically intimidating a child you suspect might be about to rob you isn't really practical as an overall solution to this issue.Although Covid distorts things, the figures suggest that crime was declining until falling police numbers inevitably led to it rising again. However, new recruitment should help start the amount of crime fall again. Personally I feel very safe on local streets at night and more so than I did ten to fifteen years ago.One thing that is less clear is the trend in child on child crime. As I understand it this isn't properly captured in the statistics published by the Met. The chances are that this is driven by how expensive and insecure devices carried by children are at any given time. It used to be the case that juvenile robbers in west London used to descend on King Street on the first day of school after Christmas to take phones given as presents from pupils at Latymer School. I'd assume that since the advent of Find My Phone and greater security on mobile devices, the prevalence of this crime will have fallen but I have a limit grasp of what can be done with a stolen phone these days.On operational matters, aren't these best left to the professionals? It strikes me that a flaw in the armchair coppers' idea of 'more visible policing' is that if criminals can see where the police are they will just go and offend where they aren't. Whenever I have seen a gang of young scumbags getting collared there has been an unmarked car involved in making the arrest. Invisible policing seems to be much more effective.

Francis Rowe ● 1164d

Indeed, Francis - intelligence-led policing.

Robert Fish ● 1164d

"Prevention is better than cure, and a combination of better intelligence and more boots on the ground (particularly targeted at locations where this type of crime is committed) would be not only less risky but also more effective." What a load of tosh!Obviously prevention is better and a large of prevention is the higher risk of being caught.  "Boots on the ground" we all agree with but not much use if the culprit is zooming away laughing!

Adrian Irving ● 1164d

Use drones to see where they go, if allowed.

Janice Evans ● 1164d

Good idea janice. 👍

Julian Pavey ● 1164d

To clarify ‘resources’, according to a letter from Chiswick School head Teacher, that comprises of 3 PC’s and 3 PCSO’s for Chiswick.All the muggings have been specifically for iPhones - my sons friend had a smart phone but not an iPhone and the mugger wasn’t interested in his phone but took his friends iPhone. They have robbed a teacher as well as children. As some have said, prevention would be ideal. The difficulty is they seem to be more emboldened (will accost pairs of children, in busy areas, where teachers already patrol). Hoping the work being done on examining CCTV might prove fruitful. Main purpose of post was to raise awareness as unsure if people outside of school communities are aware this is happening.

Hayley Shah ● 1164d

My wife and daughter have been flashed a couple of times on Barnes Common and near Barnes Station but there was never a threat of violence. Times have changed.

Steve Taylor ● 1164d

Thanks Hayley. Did letter from the Headteacher offer any crime prevention advice relating to iPhones? They didn't exist when my children were younger but it seems like the way to stop yours becoming a victim of this kind of crime is not to give them a phone that is worth stealing.

Francis Rowe ● 1164d

Frances I understand your thinking about rubbish phones from a monetary aspect  but surely there is another darker side that is more important than money.These guys don't play nicely instead intimidate their victims to hand over the phones, money etc. This can and does  deeply affect schoolchildren and adults alike making some fearful to walk the streets.CCTV may or may not be helpful after the event but obviously  was no deterrent to the muggings taking place in the first place.As I have written earlier one of the best deterrents is the fear of being caught. A fear that must next to non existent in the minds of the muggers as things stand right now.

Adrian Irving ● 1163d

I don't dispute that getting robbed as a child by another child is traumatic - still bear the mental scars myself. What we probably have to accept is that child on child crime is something that we will always have and it is very challenging for the police to deal with. As I said previously, I have observed the police having some success with muggers. These arrests, because they involve minors, tend not to be reported so this is not a riskless crime. It is however often opportunistic and any crime of this nature is very difficult to prevent and deter. A cheap phone seems to me the only surefire way.

Francis Rowe ● 1163d

We used to have Police Officers who visited schools to discuss muggings and drugs both with the parents and with the pupils.  I expect that it one of the public services that have unfortunately been cut.You often used to see pupils in uniform coming out of school and immediately taking their phones out of their pockets.  Unbranded coats used to be useful to hide uniforms but then clothing with particular branding became collectibles.The same thing has happened more recently where passengers arriving at Waterloo (IIRC) were being mugged because they came out of the station having ordered an Uber and then watched their smartphone screens to see the exact progress of the Uber towards them.  Scooter thieves targeted them.I agree with Francis it is better to avoid all the oneupmanship and have basic phones.  I thought that that was used the whole reason for having uniforms in the first place.

Philippa Bond ● 1163d

I wonder what.....

Elle Jones ● 1163d

There was an item on the news yesterday about Enfield, where the local police station has closed. Parents have formed groups to see kids safely to school and back. They shouldn't have to do the police's job but things have improved. Obviously it requires adults who are available in what are normally working hours.

Susan Kelly ● 1163d

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/dramatic-moment-police-ram-moped-gang-suspect-off-bike-after-high-speed-chase-a4174916.htmlThe link leads you to reports where police have pursued scooter mounted muggers at high speed with authoritarian to unseat them if necessary and or spay them with Smart Water for later identification.Muggers now seem to prefer electric bikes so it seems to me the police should also mount up and patrol hotspots or quickly respond to reports of trouble.Think, you or yours could be next.

Adrian Irving ● 1163d

I think this being depicted as a ‘child in child’ crime and oneupmanship may be misleading. CCTV footage I’ve seen shows three people who look around six foot tall so perhaps young adults. And I have also ‘heard’ (so may not be true) that far from oneupmanship, the phones are stolen to order and sent abroad so perhaps a more organised activity than you might imagine.

Hayley Shah ● 1163d

Hayley, I agree, the people I have seen and otherwise mentioned are not children but are generally 16 plus.When I worked in Central London scooter riding muggers became a big problem and there were concerns it would impact on business and tourism. Because of this a lot of pressure was put on the Met to sort it out and action followed.One of the consequences of the crack down was to shift the problem to the wealth suburbs like Chiswick and Barnes.We need to make a fuss and not simply roll over letting these people get a free ride.

Adrian Irving ● 1163d

It depends on how you see oneupmanship.  I see it as oneupmanship between the pupils themselves at school.  If there wasn't such a great divide between rich and poor, haves and have-nots (and it is still growing) there would not be so much of a problem.  I don't think that just concentrating on the one problem you are facing is going to take it away.  However you should be able to make it less easy.

Philippa Bond ● 1162d

So the answer is for the manufacturers to provide a simple basic phone for use by schoolchildren and for the schools to have a strict ban on anything more exotic being brought onto the premises ?

Richard Greenhough ● 1162d

Or two old bean cans and a ball of string?

Adrian Irving ● 1162d

Are you sure that they don't?Well, it WAS better without them!  It was also better when parents didn't create or allow such a situation to happen in the first place...  but I can't somehow see that change happening.You also have schools who could do better but they can also sometimes unfortunately be rather in awe of some of their parents which is a great shame and doesn't help any of the children.So not just one solution.  

Philippa Bond ● 1162d

Well done Hayley for highlighting this issue. You seem to have prompted some very interesting coverage in the newsletter today particularly the highlighting of data which shows this isn't a one off spate of robberies but a problem that has been building for some time.

Anita Blake ● 1161d

Having read the front page article on this subject I can't say I am surprised that teachers are having to go out on patrol as the police say they haven't got the resources. I say where there's a will there is a way. I repeat, the police need to actively patrol on high speed bikes and hunt these people down because until they do the problem will only get worse and worse.

Adrian Irving ● 1161d

I have a video of the three young people concerned, recorded on the day the teacher from Strand on the Green school was mugged at knifepoint. I contacted the police to say that I had it, but I have heard absolutely nothing since.

Graham Holley ● 1161d

Graham, are the faces clear enough to be identified and does the video record the actual incident?

Adrian Irving ● 1161d

Shocking whatever the video reveals. The borough commander needs to be notified and held to account for lack of action.Even if the video is not revealing anything or actually in the act of a criminal offenceGo to the press and name if they dont respond by say tuesday

Julian Pavey ● 1161d

Graham,Im a local Councilor who has been liaising with the Chiswick Head, Police and Local Authority in responding to these street robberiesI've sent you a private message offering to assist you together with my email and phone number I look forward to hearing from you.JohnCllr John Todd

John Todd ● 1161d

👍

Julian Pavey ● 1161d

The police never seem to have the resources for anything to do with crime prevention(which is one of their two main tenets), never mind for following up on some real crimes.They seem to have the resources to check number plates for road tax evaders etc. at places like Chiswick roundabout however.Last time I saw them there,there were 3 police cars and 4 or five bobbies stood talking to each other.

Keith Iddon ● 1160d

This is a job for the police. What are they doing? Teachers are not equipped to deal with thugs and neither should they be expected to do so.

Elizabeth Price ● 1160d

The Police were patrolling Staveley Road and Chiswick Station on Friday

Bernard Allen ● 1160d

Good news - and I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't other video of muggings on people's doorcams - if they knew it was wanted and how to deal with it.

Philippa Bond ● 1159d

School breaks up in a few days so who will they target next?Stay alert, it could be you!

Adrian Irving ● 1159d