Forum Topic

Health UK

GMB today. People in the UK stand least chance of survival of treatable illness, such as strokes and cancer of wealthy counties. Also the NHS has less staff than other countries.

Nicholas Beard ● 1181d49 Comments

The UK “underperforms significantly” on tackling its biggest killer diseases, in part because the NHS has been weakened by years of underinvestment, according to the report from the King’s Fund health thinktank. It “performs poorly” as judged by the number of avoidable deaths resulting from disease and injury and also by fatalities that could have been prevented had patients received better or quicker treatment.

Stewart Jones ● 1181d

"We've put in more money than ever before" is a repeated excuse BUT - we have not only a bigger population than ever befote but a bigger elderly population than ever before - so that just isn't good enough!

Philippa Bond ● 1181d

Obesity is a major issue but an individual has to help themselves we can’t blame the NHS for everything.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1181d

They are dealing with self inflicted injury from drug abuse now as the horse tranquilliser is now in circulation in the U.K.

Janice Evans ● 1181d

Other countries have drug problems too but handle it. Also our mental health problems are terrible, surprisingly we have long waiting lists there. We were told on the Brexit Red bus a huge amount of money could be put into the health service, this never happened. Rishi said the pandemic caused the backlog for treatment. However before the pandemic we had a million back log. Also the countries we are being compared too also had covid.

Nicholas Beard ● 1181d

We never had this terrible drug, expect it to get worse.

Janice Evans ● 1181d

Ridiculous whataboutary crap.Sadly with our politicians, Tories and Labour paid off by private healthcare providers you won't get any progres.

Basil Finnis ● 1181d

Obesity and xylazine - two pathetic distractions to steer attention away from the failure of politicians to take proper care of the NHS.

Robert Fish ● 1181d

How can it ever cope with the increase in population, I'm actuallyspeaking from experience of someone who almost lost a leg due to thishorrific drug circulating here in UK

Janice Evans ● 1181d

There are a lot of MPs with financial interests in private healthcare businesses.  There are some here:https://www.everydoctor.org.uk/blog/private-healthcare-politiciansWhen your Doctors' Surgery is bought up by a large foreign company will you still have the same Doctors - or will you just have locums - the continuity of care is disappearing and you have to be very proactive which is not something that everyone is good at doing where healthcare is concerned as they are afraid of learning the worst.  Don't be - and don't ever just believe that no news is good news because it is far more likely to be disjointed administrative failure - often caused by outsourcing. Times have changed. Follow and chase everything up.

Philippa Bond ● 1181d

Perhaps having fewer extremely well-paid posts for Directors of Lived Experience and climate change specialists would help.  There is an awful lot of waste in the NHS which has become dismally woke to the detriment of the experience of many women in particular.

Claire Moran ● 1181d

The government doesn’t run the NHS they just provide the funds. The NHS needs complete structural reform and has done for decades but no government dare do it in terms of direction. It receives a huge pot of money perhaps not as much as some other countries but until it is reformed it will make zero difference how much money they receive. There are many health issues that people can help themselves or pay a specialist to sort. Under the current NHS structure & waiting lists that is what people are doing going privately.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1181d

What about those who can't afford private care? The argument of the necessity of structural reform is typical of those who have enough money to pay for their own healthcare, and resent having to pay for others. You can cite inefficiencies, obesity, drug use, etc, but the main cause of the virtual collapse of the NHS is, quite simply, chronic underfunding. Read the latest King's Fund report, and weep: https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/nhs-compare-health-care-systems-other-countries

Robert Fish ● 1181d

There is far too much wasted money within the NHS but I am sure I am not alone when I would happily pay more in taxes towards it if it was 100% ring fenced

Paul Fisher ● 1181d

A doctor I know told me he recently witnessed a RTA not far from here involving a cyclist who was badly injured, in considerable pain and needed an ambulance.One was called for. He stayed with the injured person until one arrived.How long did it take? Twenty minutes? No. Forty five minutes? No. An hour? No. Two hours? No.Six hours, I kid you not.Shocking, quite shocking.

Adrian Irving ● 1181d

I think the NHS is seriously under-funded and understaffed, and the pay of health workers needs to be increased partly to redress historic underpayment and partly to attract more people to the profession which should eventually prevent horrific delays in ambulance response times as mentioned and other problems.But there are other big issues that need addressing.  We have shocking levels of childhood obesity but supermarkets and suchlike are allowed to stack their shelves with sweets at child height near the tills.  This is shocking to me.  Other countries don’t do this.  It’s grossly unfair on both children and their carers.  Nanny state?  Sure.  Bring it on if it will improve public health.As for ‘reform of the NHS’, in my experience they do really well in increasingly challenging circumstances.  I’d rather ‘reform’ the way the government doles out private contracts to their friends.The NHS was established just three years after the horrors and expense of WW2.  There are no good excuses for a similar determination and commitment today.

Alastair Banton ● 1181d

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-06-26/nhs-substantially-behind-similar-countries-on-life-expectancyWe're creeping up on the USA which is definitely not where we should be with our NHS but definitely where the ideological neo-liberal contingent would like us to be.  Interestingly so many Americans over here wax lyrical at the care they get when here on the NHS and are constantly warning us not to get ill when we are go to the States.It is a big shame that the ban on BOGOF deals on foods high in fats and sugars has been delayed yet again.  https://news.sky.com/story/ban-on-two-for-one-junk-food-deals-delayed-again-over-cost-of-living-crisis-12904128Apparently a quarter of adults together with children aged 10-11 in England are obese and obesity leads to chronic illnesses eg diabetes and high costs to the NHS.The recent Panorama on Ultra Processed Foods was interesting and is worth watching as these are foods that are more  available and eaten here than in a lot of other countries.  It is possible to wean yourself off some of them or onto reduced amounts. Tweaking your diet isn't the same as denying yourself everything you love to eat! (Or did before you learnt what it contained and how your body reacts to it!)https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65754290

Philippa Bond ● 1180d

"Apparently a quarter of adults together with children aged 10-11 in England are obese and obesity leads to chronic illnesses eg diabetes and high costs to the NHS"Quite so Philippa, a fact that supports my previous post about money must be found to continue support Local Authority leisure facilities.

Adrian Irving ● 1180d

Just in this thread is a classic example more money is needed everywhere, my own view I  agree too much waste and perhaps the pot is unfairly distributed. You never hear of an underpaid surgeon or consultant. To be fair they put the hours in both private and NHS and are highly skilled/trained. The real issue is structural not enough money is spend focussed on the patient needs. Too bureaucratic not enough skilled people in the right places. Why is everything centred around a hospital, bed blocking, and  Monday to Friday. Hospital costs a fortune to equip and run we need NHS local clinics in the community, smaller rehabilitation clinics to stop bed blocking to free up the space in high tech hospitals. As I say structural reform. I would also be very happy to pay NHS tax but only if it was ring fenced and reformed so we all got great care. The reality in my view it is never going to happen. If you have non life threatening condition those that can afford it will go privately. That in turn will free up space for those that can’t. The NHS should have moved with the times decades ago. Life is very different now to 1948.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1180d

It isn't just swimming pools - it is all the sports facilities that are no longer as accessible to all.  We now have children learning to swim in small private pools and very few competition pools.  Children learning to swim and schools being able to compete against each other and swimming clubs with a mix of children from state and private and public schools competing against each other is a great leveller. It is now some 20 or 30 years since we were campaigning because of the closure and lack of maintenance of the mainly Victorian swimming pools and the lack of public swimming pools in the UK compared to other countries and capital cities.  With children competing in pools all across Middlesex we saw a lot of Victorian pools - and some newer ones.  Funding for Pools was not something that the Govt felt important - in fact it was considered decidedly unimportant.  This item that looks back shows a bit about the fight.https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/apr/16/london-fields-lido-did-saving-a-pool-mean-losing-a-communityhttps://www.theguardian.com/education/2012/aug/19/tories-biggest-sellers-school-playing-fieldsAnd this exercise early in life helps to instil good and healthy active regime for life.https://outdoorswimmer.com/news/the-crisis-facing-our-swimming-pools-and-why-more-people-could-drown/#

Philippa Bond ● 1180d

You will get waste when you don't have enough staff.  What may look like waste to you the consumer may be from the POV of the spreadsheet a saving as it may cost more for instance to collect and sanitise lent equipment through the time and effort and personnel needed than just bulk buying new. Remember time is money.Yes, it would be better to have smaller hubs nearer to the patients than making them all travel (and many may have difficulty and there are never enough Blue Badge bays and drop off points).  However if you do that you do also have to ensure that the clinics are managed well.  Patients' notes have to be actually be available wherever that clinic is too.  Consultants should also stay to see all their patients instead of cutting short the clinic times (and disappearing).  It takes two to tango.There is also a lot wrong with the private system.  If anything goes wrong then the patient is shipped back into the NHS system.  Also if anyone is sick when in a care home then due to the lack of staff an ambulance will be called.

Philippa Bond ● 1180d

Things will go wrong but let’s also remember the millions of procedures every year that go well we only ever hear about the negatives. We are fortunate to have an NHS the only one in the world so let’s stop moaning.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1180d

Jayne, agree but remember they closed down all the cottage hospitals which would have been ideal for non urgent admissions.

Janice Evans ● 1180d

‘Let’s stop moaning?’  I really didn’t think you’d stoop to this lazy trope, Jayne.  And nobody here is moaning about the great work that health care workers do.  Rather we are all, including you, making proposals that, in various ways, governments of whatever stripe might adopt to restore our health service to a level that was once the envy of the world.  It IS in a mess now, and deserves commitment and change.  That’s not moaning.

Alastair Banton ● 1180d

It would help if every area had a 24 hour walk in clinic with pharmacywith everyone's medical history available on-line it should not be difficultto implement, the pharmacys do it for jabs etc.

Janice Evans ● 1180d

Indeed, Alistair. I think we need to know why you are more likely to die of cancer or stroke in Britain than in most of the rest of the developed world, while we have fewer scanners per head than most of the rest of the developed world,etc. If that's moaning,let's moan like mad. I think those who are indifferent to these facts must be paying for their own private healthcare, and too bad for everyone else.

Claire Moran ● 1180d

So back to what I said earlier the NHS needs completely new structural changes but I fear no government of any colour has the courage it has got way too big so changing it will take decades. Yes all our family enjoyed private health through my fathers professional and I took it out when it lapsed. Happy to declare that since I was a baby and still have it. That doesn’t mean I don’t pay into the NHS and would love to see it function more efficiently I doubt that will happen in my lifetime sadly. Equally I do know people who sadly have cancer and their treatment is amazing with various trials which has definitely prolonged their life. I just don’t understand why everything regardless of treatment centres around a hospital, many none life threatening treatments could be carried out in local clinics, reducing waiting lists, easier access in terms of journeys, more efficient, the tech bit should be easy today given the advancements in digital. Totally agree pharmacies could play a vital role as well.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1180d

I agree that the cottage hospitals were great.  What happens when you have someone in hospital nowadays needing transfer somewhere for some rehab before being discharged home is that you wait day after day not knowing where and whether they will be sent for this. You're told they're moving today, then tonight, then tomorrow then next week etc which makes visiting them very difficult and everything of your own has to be put on hold - making work difficult.  A WhatsApp group is good for sharing latest updates!  Then you hear strange stories like - "if you hadn't arrived within the next 20 min I would have given (ie sold) your bed to someone else".  It is obviously very difficult to find that care and as for the physio that is desperately needed nigh impossible and you have to wait for weeks after discharge for that. An awful lot of time must be spent in hospitals by staff looking for beds and transport so that they can discharge people.  Can you imagine going through all that palaver discharging someone for rehab and them arriving and there is no bed?  It makes it all harder to keep good morale up!When my MIL and FIL had a fall or surgery some years back there was a brilliant system where there was an organised and diminishing number of physio visits as soon as you got out and there were carers set up for a short amount of time to get you back on your feet again.  It seems much worse now as it is so difficult to get any care package set up to start with.

Philippa Bond ● 1180d

It appears that Wales is still going to go ahead with their restriction of BOGOFs on HFSS foods. (Buy One Get One Free/High Fat, Salt and Sugar).  We lag behind again.

Philippa Bond ● 1180d

Totally agree Philippa on your first comments personally I don’t want to live in a nanny state. People have to take responsibility for their behaviour including dietary habits. Perhaps we should provide mirrors and scales for the vast majority who are just either eating all the wrong foods, can’t be bothered to cook or simply over indulging. To let your child get fat is appalling through food and lack of exercise whatever happened to parents. Obviously those who suffer through illness is a different matter. Should government be responsible for what each household eats I don’t think so. Yet as someone has already commented obesity costs the NHS a fortune. Truly sad state of affairs.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1180d

If, as I suspect Jayne, like me you were born before the mid-seventies, then you were a beneficiary of what you now like to slander as the ‘nanny state’.  Thatcher’s baleful legacy of unfettered capitalism, the primacy of the individual over community etc still lives on unfortunately.  Not that I’m expecting to change your mind :-)

Alastair Banton ● 1179d

I think we should be careful about being self-righteous about weight.  The food stores are full of ultra processed foods.  These are full of substances that make them desirable to eat but lack fibre so they leave us feeling hungry.  It’s all very well saying we need better education so people eat well but good food is expensive. So people eat less expensive ultra processed foods and get fat.  The food industry needs regulation as people do not understand what they are eating.

Christopher Shea ● 1179d

My mother cooked  and baked, we didn’t eat processed food. It’s all about moderation there is no reason why parents can’t cook wholesome food for their children.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1179d

As a user of Brentford Fountain Leisure and Isleworth Pool I can say that many schools make use of these facilities, also for competitions (although whether these are between schools is another thing). Also, at weekends, the BFLC at least is well used by families.I may not be a Slim Jim myself but I do occasionally see severely overweight children at the pool. I feel for them - it's certainly no way to start out in life.

Anne England ● 1179d

Yes Jayne, but why be tempted by one pack of two cream and jam scones at £2.00 with two packs at £3.00? It's very easy to get drawn in whether it's 'my' responsibility or not.Are people not just being taken advantage of with these kind of offers i.e. are you actually overpaying - and therefore feeling somehow 'cheated' - at the £2.00 price?It's also hardly ever the case that these offers are extended to more wholesome fare.

Anne England ● 1179d

The Newsnight Special last night was on the theme of NHS - fit for the future?  There was broad agreement that there was a need for more staffing, more integration with Social Care, more funding (we spend quite a bit less than a lot of our neighbours) and the need for the continuation of the principle ‘free at the point of delivery’.

Alastair Banton ● 1179d

And when was that Jayne? What was the availability of cheap ultra processed foods at that time?Do you think there is any connection between the increased availability and consumption of ultra processed foods in USA and UK and the increased obesity or is it just people are more ignorant and have less self control than in the past.

Christopher Shea ● 1178d

😂😂😂😂 people cook today as much as my mother there is no need to buy everything processed. You could argue it’s easier today with the internet/you tube to cook rather than read recipe books. So it goes back to discipline and taking responsibility for one’s health. I rarely fall for the buy one get one free as you say it’s normally crap food which we don’t buy anyway. Maybe once now and then 😂😂😂. I will say again it doesn’t matter how much money we throw at the NHS with the current structure it needs radical reform. Many other countries not only spend more, structure is different that there is some form of private payment. The NHS can’t operate free, we need to get real, face the facts and pay more through tax which is ring fenced in addition to paying a contribution whether through top up insurance or just pay. There will never be enough money just through tax fr the service we all want. All NHS staff want more money this pushes up the cost to everyone.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1178d

There used to be a school nurse who measured weight and height and checked sight and hearing and more.  Where did that go and why?

Philippa Bond ● 1178d

Wales has just also banned all types of snares which means wild animals and wandering domestic cats won't suffer a horrendous, painful death through this disgusting practice. Rest of the UK lagging behind on that too, which is disgraceful.

Claire Moran ● 1178d

So did mine. Worked full time and no help with housework and three kids - my Dad confined himself to fixing the car.  She died at 66 and was always exhausted.

Claire Moran ● 1178d

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/jun/29/nhs-staff-sickness-rate-england-record-high

Philippa Bond ● 1178d

How neo-liberalism changed the worldhttps://press.un.org/en/2018/gashc4239.doc.htm

Philippa Bond ● 1178d

"If you use online forums to do what everyone else is doing you are destined to post familiar and mediocrity content at best, and redundant and boring content at worst. Sharing link after link after link will not make you stand out from the crowd""Others are busy peoplePeople have lives outside of your links. People are busy, people get distracted, people have hundreds of things fighting for their attention. This means that they might not have time for your link. Maybe it is interesting and even relevant, but unless they have time for it right then and there, it will be lost on them. People can more easily consume bite-size information throughout their day than a long-winded link".

Julian Pavey ● 1178d

A valid post Julian, online posts are lazy and contents pinched from the Guardian or Private Eye are as predictable as those pinched from Daily Express or Mail.They are likely only going to be read by the converted.So take note Philippa: be short, sharp, even antagonising.But not lazy.

Denis I. Fox ● 1177d

It takes no time at all to highlight, control c and control v into a browser.Either you are bothered or you aren't.  I'm not doing all the bothering for you.

Philippa Bond ● 1177d

Fair point Philippa, nothing personal.

Denis I. Fox ● 1177d

Oh yes!  The nit nurse.  Don't children just get sent home nowadays with a note and then parents have to smother their children's hair and their own with toxic chemicals?  Regular combing with special combs and lots of conditioner at the start of each term used to be the alternative.  It must be awful if you can't afford that.

Philippa Bond ● 1177d

Sorry about being so abrupt but easy on a laptop and too busy to cope with learning it on a mobile.

Philippa Bond ● 1177d