Forum Topic

The 15-minute city

I've been puzzling for ages exactly what the optimum output would the for the cyclist lobby re LTNs. I think I may have discovered it. It is called the 15-minute city. It is an authoritarian concept now taking concrete form in both Oxford and Canterbury.The 15-minute city seeks a number of things:1. To remake daily life in an urban setting.2. To limit the freedom and choice people get from driving a motor vehicle in the name of the enironment/net zero objective.3. To reduce the choices available to residents in an area have regarding transport.In both Oxford and Canterbury residents will be required to have a permit to work elsewhere than their home area in the city. In both cities residents will be limited in the number of times they can drive across the boundary of their alloted zone. And if you don't comply, heavy fines will follow using automatic number plate recognition.Basically, green planners such as those in Oxford and Canterbury want to ban the car. In theory, all goods and services a resident requires will be on offer within a 15-minute walkCyclists, again in theory, will applaud all this. But the 15-minute city is not just anti-car and anti-choice, but hugely authoritarian in a way we have experienced already in Chiswick following a series of diktats on LTNs from the Hounslow Council.

Robin Knight ● 1421d46 Comments

The 15 minute city idea has been knocking around for a while. As you correctly surmise it’s a load of utopian claptrap dreamed up by people who never live in the real world. Rather like traffic evaporation and all the other nonsense these types come out with.Freedom of choice is one of the fundamental constructs of democratic society. My, how we ridicule those places where the citizens are forced to live according to the whims of a privileged elite. Would never happen here of course.

Simon Hayes ● 1421d

Precisely why places like Chiswick, Oxford and Canterbury are not places one would choose to live. They are places to avoid like a plague.

Steve Taylor ● 1420d

Coincidentally (?) this was featured on the BBC News website this morning.The question arises, where does the city end?https://www.bbc.co.uk/ideas/videos/the-simple-idea-that-could-transform-city-life/p0cqty38

Bruce Hammal ● 1420d

It's interesting. I can't remember where, but I read a piece of research that could map happiness directly to this.  They took three points on a map, where you live, work and shop and drew a triangle with these points.  The smaller the triangle the happier the person described themselves.

Kieran Fox ● 1420d

You guys are like the two old fellas in the balcony in The Muppet Show. Tiresome self-pitying reactionary conservatives wasting your retirement years fouling social media with your relentless negativity and paranoia.You are decrying something that is supported by most major global cities as being beneficial for civilian life in so many ways. You're so fixated on looking longingly in the rearview mirror at a world built around the car you are missing what is now very obvious to democratically elected politicians and their advisers worldwide - it is really great if as many people as possible are not car dependent in urban environments for a myriad of reasons. Cycle campaigners are beneficiaries of the unstoppable trend away from car dependency for sure but this is a lot bigger than your irrational fears about some all-powerful mysterious cycle lobby.The irony is that the older you are the more beneficial it is to have all of your amenities within walking, cycling or mobility aid distance. Car dependency for everyday living is a caged existence and you want to imprison yourselves. Wake up! And if you don't fine, you'll be pushed aside by progress that you are powerless to stop anyway.

Paul Campbell ● 1420d

Don’t be such a muppet yourself.Public services aren’t all conveniently located close to where people live. That includes schools, hospitals and other essential services. Quite often or prefer to use better services that are further away. That’s called freedom of choice.But we know you are a mouth foaming hypocrite when it comes to car usage. So why should anyone take anything you say seriously?It’s also not illegal to own or use a car in this country. Butvthen you know that don’t you!

Simon Hayes ● 1420d

Haha.  Statler and Waldorf!  I watched that BBC news video and I thought the idea seemed quite benign in intention and so I was mystified by the rage it has inflamed in one or two folk. And being slightly of the senior persuasion myself and being car-free for about a decade  one thing I love about where I live is that it could be well described as a ‘fifteen minute city’.  Right now I’m just off for a stroll to get a haircut and do a bit of shopping on CHR.  Toodle pip.

Alastair Banton ● 1420d

The benefits of 15-minute cities and redistribution of urban space away from cars are great in themselves. But a secondary but nonetheless immensely gratifying benefit is how much they enrage the foul-mouthed embittered foaming oafs who lack the critical faculties to understand them or nuance of any kind or who are so burdened by their grievance that the world doesn't recognise their greatness and ignores them. That will never get old for me.

Paul Campbell ● 1420d

Sounds awful Alastair. I hope you can try to enjoy living under the yoke of the authoritarian regimes that are imposing this restricted lifestyle on you.

Paul Campbell ● 1420d

You are a terrible troll Campbell.I hope you enjoy life in your self righteous bubble. What works for you doesn’t necessarily work for others though. Or don’t you understand that concept? I guess small places suit small minds.

Simon Hayes ● 1420d

RK: "Basically, green planners such as those in Oxford and Canterbury want to ban the car."Claptrap!How on earth do you imagine that "green planners" [sic] could ever "ban the car"?Confiscate private vehicles? Close every road to them? Shut every parking space and car park? Fine every driver on every road within, through and around the city? Disabled car owners? Police cars? Council cars? Rather, what planners are proposing in certain cities with particular problems of congestion and pollution deriving from increased car usage, is that certain unnecessary journeys be restricted in certain area at certain times, for the good of the whole community.Which is all very different from the one-eyed "vision" of our future which you seem to fear, which is largely a figment of your own, fevered imnagination and bears little relation to reality.

Richard Cathcart ● 1420d

Believe this happen in another Country where a person could only drive into town on 3 days of the week, everyone was buying a second vehicle and driving into town every day.

Janice Evans ● 1420d

I think there should be a bus lane again, they could share it with cyclists asmost cyclists are in with the traffic anyhow, I'm not against cycle lanes butdo think buses should have priority or no one will give up driving.

Janice Evans ● 1420d

JE: "Believe this happen in another Country where a person could only drive into town on 3 days of the week, everyone was buying a second vehicle and driving into town every day."RC: Not the same. You are referring to large cities eg New Delhi, Shanghai etc where roads were being clogged up at rush hour by huge numbers of cars commuting into the city from outside every day. Whereas with Oxford, for example, that particular commuting problem is being addressed by Park & Ride schemes and new rail stations etc.Rather, the restrictions referred to by the OP are designed to manage a different problem entirely, that of unsustainable car usage within the city itself, by people who already live there.Local residents could not get round these measures by buying an extra car - quite the opposite in fact, since even if they could find another parking space for their new car when not in use(!), they would still be required to have a permit for each vehicle they own, but would not be allowed a second permit without good reason.

Richard Cathcart ● 1420d

Just another example of what is going on elsewhere, suppose you couldstill get cabs.

Janice Evans ● 1420d

I would have to use cabs if I never had the car.

Janice Evans ● 1420d

This has been doing the rounds in QAnon circles for a while now, oh dear!

Basil Finnis ● 1420d

The reaction to my message says it all - hysteria from the cycling left etc etc. Is it impossible to discuss traffic in Chiswick in a civilised way? Not when the likes of Mr. Campbell are involved, or so it seems. His stock-in-trade is personal abuse even though I haven't a clue who he is except that, apparently, he is a cyclist from Brentford.

Robin Knight ● 1420d

No Robin. You are the hysterical one imagining that widely accepted urban planning principles are an authoritarian leftist plot to ban cars.  And I live in Chiswick and have done for 22 years so you can stuff your Chiswick snobbery about Brentford back in your cravat as well.

Paul Campbell ● 1420d

These 'widely accepted urban planning principles' of limiting people to within 15 minutes travel of their homes appear to be taking us back to medieval times when people rarely travelled far from where they lived. I have to say the Oxford ParknRide seems to be fairly effective, but Oxford is comparatively compact, while London is not.

Peter Evans ● 1420d

They're not limiting people to within 15 minutes travel of their homes! Where on earth do you get that idea? Did you look at the BBC article Bruce posted? I remember when you used to be a reasonably sensible and balanced commentator on urban change. What's happened?The principle is to create areas in which everyday services and amenities are available within a 15 minute walk or cycle ride so that people can choose to stay in an area and travel sustainably for most daily needs and leisure activities. People are still allowed to leave the 15 minute zone for goodness sake! And in London they have abundant options for doing so via PT. Cycle lanes like C9 will enable more people to travel further sustainably and safely. And there will be a connected network of such cycle lanes all over the city. People are also still allowed to drive but it will seem sillier and sillier for able-bodied people to do so when other options are cheaper, faster, easier and more pleasant.

Paul Campbell ● 1420d

"These 'widely accepted urban planning principles' of limiting people to within 15 minutes travel of their homes appear to be taking us back to medieval times when people rarely travelled far from where they lived"Medieval times ?In the 19th and Ist half of the 20th century most coal miners lived within walking distance of their place of work.Same with the workers in the cotton mills and most other other factories.  Many of the inhabitants of South Acton lived within walking distance of their places of work. In fact in many London surburbs the lowest quality housing was often found next next to the laundry districts. This was all of necessity as the housing was built before the advent of public public transport and affordable bicycles.The future for cities however is escooters, ebikes and souped up mobility scooters and nobody is going to be safe.Except indoors.michael adams

Michael Adams ● 1420d

‘The reaction to my message says it all - hysteria from the cycling left etc etc. Is it impossible to discuss traffic in Chiswick in a civilised way?’That is so wide of the mark.  Speaking as one of those accused of ‘hysteria from the cycling left etc etc’ please read our comments again.  They are really quite calm and good humoured, especially when put against accusations like ‘foaming hypocrite’ and ‘terrible troll’.  (And fyi I don’t ride a bike and rarely if ever contribute to cycling threads and will probably continue not to do so.)

Alastair Banton ● 1420d

“ Right now I’m just off for a stroll to get a haircut and do a bit of shopping on CHR.  Toodle pip.”Watch out for the morons on cycling on the pavements. They prefer the pavements to the dangerous cycle lanes you know.

Steve Taylor ● 1420d

With all due respect you probably don’t have a particularly busy life. Problems arise for those of us who do and rely on personal transport to make a living.The 15 minute city is just another cycle lobby wet dream.

Simon Hayes ● 1420d

The more and more I hear about 15 minute cities, the more and more I think of the Hunger Games - that's what it's turning into :)"The Hunger Games universe is a dystopia set in Panem, a North American country consisting of the wealthy Capitol and 13 districts in varying states of poverty."

J Morse ● 1420d

‘just another cycle lobby wet dream’.Again I must confess I’m bewildered by your aggressive attitude.  I’ve just watched the BBC news video again and yes it talks about pollution and the need to reduce this and the consequent desirability of there being less traffic but that seems unarguable.  And if followed would lead to a pleasanter driving experience for those with busy lives who do need to drive.  But the video is as much about changes like more working from home and the implications of this.  The idea that all this is all some plot by radical lefty cyclists just seems absurd, ludicrous - (with the greatest respect).

Alastair Banton ● 1420d

Quite wise Alastair. Conspiracy theorists don't take kindly to rational responses. Especially not ones from cyclists who it is about time were, as a Onesie from this forum with a fondness for high-powered cars has commented on OneChiswick recently, "be put in their place." You may be granted redemption for not riding a bike and for not living in Brentford if you promise to stay away from any thread that mentions bikes. Meanwhile everybody else can carry on pretending that the idea of a society that provides quality services and amenities for everybody within a 15 minute walk or cycle from their home is a hellscape dreamt up by fanatical cyclists.

Paul Campbell ● 1420d

Yeah every LTN in Hammersmith and Fulham will be forced to nominate a champion for a fight to the death when everybody is within a 15 min walk or cycle from all the services and amenities they need. It's just like The Hunger Games. Except they can easily get a bus, tube or train to other LTNs if they don't want to walk or cycle. Or drive for that matter.

Paul Campbell ● 1420d

Campbell, you are a first rate moron.Social inequalities exist all over London. You might be lucky to live in a pleasant little enclave of privilege and access to all you need. Plenty do not and never will. Parts of west London are already struggling to provide the necessary basic services to residents. Yet more people are being shoehorned in to areas without any expansion of services.You dismiss anyone who doesn’t share your warped views as conspiracy theorists, yer London’s government is stuffed full of LCC members, from Andrew Gilligan and corrupt ex Ealing leader Julian Bell on the TfL board tonthe various councillors in areas like Hounslow and Ealing. They are working with the LCC to redesign road space, ignoring the voices of other legitimate road users.For you to claim otherwise isn’t just disingenuous, it’s downright lying.

Simon Hayes ● 1420d

Poor under-represented legitimate road-users. They seem so nice. It's amazing that nobody listens to them after they have spent a decade screaming abuse at them like you. Really shocking. One of the wonders of life is how demonstrably inferior are those with the most glaring superiority complexes.

Paul Campbell ● 1420d

Wow. He’s gone full Maggie.

Ed Saper ● 1420d

He's been full Maggie before Maggie even discovered the LCC's nefarious plan to steal all the cars from poor people and the disabled.

Paul Campbell ● 1420d

“The future for cities however is escooters, ebikes and souped up mobility scooters and nobody is going to be safe.”Well, it seems that cycling is now extremely dangerous as cyclists become more and more arrogant and intent on antagonising motorists so the safest means of travel is still the car. This is confirmed by the fact that new car sales have increased once again.The richest man in the world is right yet again with his modification of the Greatest Invention of our Time! “Overall, 1.65 million new cars were registered in 2021 - a figure that's 1% up on 2020 due to the impact of the pandemic and the global semiconductor chip shortage. Despite this, more battery electric vehicles (BEV) were sold in 2021 than the previous five years combined (2016-2020), with 190,727 registrations (11.6% of all new car sales), while plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) made up 7% or 114,554 cars. “What Are the 10 Greatest Inventions of Our Time?• The gasoline-powered automobile. ...• The moving picture. • The airplane. ...• Wireless Telegraphy. ...• The cyanide process. ...• The Nikola Tesla induction motor. ...• The Linotype machine. ...• The electric welding process.

Steve Taylor ● 1420d

Ah, you really do need to get your heads examined because you obviously don’t understand anything. Who do you think is suggesting all the road ‘improvements’?Try and get out more. A good cycle ride would work. Nice and quiet on the roads now. Just try not to fall into any of the voids.

Simon Hayes ● 1420d

JE: "I would have to use cabs if I never had the car"RC: Don't know about Canterbury, but in Oxford you would still be entirely free to use your car within your own local area.And you would still be entitled to travel to and through the other five areas on 100 days per year i.e. two days a week.If you have to exceed 100 days. you can still travel to and through another of the five areas by using the ring road to access and exit your choszn destinatuon.While those restrictions only apply during the day i.e. there will be NO such restrictions at evenings or weekends.Moreover, those people who need to use their car more often for certain essential reasons (eg disdability or medical) may apply for an exenption, also business and co0mmercial users.And in any case, if all of that makes it impossible for you to use your car, then by foregoing it, the savings on tax, fuel, insurance, depreciation and parking etc, would buy you a lot of cabs.

Richard Cathcart ● 1420d

Interesting.  Apparently the average annual cost in the U.K. now of running a car, excluding the cost of the vehicle itself, is about £3,500+.  That’s one hell of a lot of possible taxi fares.

Alastair Banton ● 1420d

"Freedom of choice is one of the fundamental constructs of democratic society. My, how we ridicule those places where the citizens are forced to live according to the whims of a privileged elite. Would never happen here of course."I couldn't think of anything more depressing than a 15 minute city. No spirit of adventure or freedom of choice to travel and interact physically with anyone outside the confines of your 15 minute gaol. One can only pity the next generation if they have to live like that.

Steve Taylor ● 1419d

Steven, as someone who has shown themselves to be well able to see through the lies, contradictions, false promises etc of Brexit and through the surreal imaginings of M.B., I am astonished how you seem to have fallen hook, line and sinker, for a fevered vision of the ‘15 minute city’ that bears no relationship to any of the modest proposals that have been made.  Seriously, how has the idea of having easy access to nice things in your neighbourhood, less pollution, less crowded trains, less need to commute etc somehow got confused with being jailed?  Or having no spirit of adventure?  And maybe before answering take a few minutes - or days - to have a quiet think first.

Alastair Banton ● 1419d

Not everyone likes where they live but stay there to be near family to helpout but also have the option to travel where they like.

Janice Evans ● 1419d

"And maybe before answering take a few minutes - or days - to have a quiet think first."I don't need a few minutes. A few seconds will suffice. Lockdown made us realise just how lucky we have been with freedom to travel etc etc. I worked from home for 3 weeks and the 'imprisonment' nearly drove me crazy. Fortunately I was then able to return to my office for three days a week and the freedom to be able to drive through different surroundings and see different things was a Godsend. I would hate a world where everything you (think) you need was within a 15 minute walk. That's not called living; it's called 'existing' in my book. It may be someone else's utopia to have easy access to nice things in their local neighbourhood, but it's not mine. Why not just work and live in Glaxo City in Brentford where you can have 'everything' you need on your doorstep.Theoretically,today I need to go to M&S. I love to have the choice - should I walk to Richmond or cycle to Kew or drive to Kingston? Or should I take a long bus ride to Ealing? Perhaps a comfortable drive through Richmond Park to Kingston and then a long walk along the river in Kingston. So many opportunities! I feel sorry for the next generation because it seems they will have limited choices! But perhaps that will be their utopia?

Steve Taylor ● 1419d

Mr Campbell's immediate resort (see one of his earlier replies to me) to personal abuse speaks for itself. In starting this thread, based on actual plans in Oxford and Canterbury, I imagined rather more intelligent and maybe nuanced responses.However, common sense does not always fail. Those of us living in Chiswick east of the A316 achieved our own small victory over LTNs and the diktat of a remote council (vocally supported by the local cycling lobby) earlier this year. It can succeed.

Robin Knight ● 1419d

Steven, this thing you’re attacking is an Aunt Sally.  It bears no relationship to anything that has been proposed.You hated lockdown.  Fine, but 15 Minute Cities has no connection with that.‘a world where *everything* you think you need is within 15 minutes’.  Nobody has ever proposed that.‘Glaxo City’ in Brentford?  Irrelevant.  Nobody would seriously think it contains everything one needs.Then you go on to describe a bunch of lovely activities that very much chime with my taste and in no way conflict with what is really implied by the idea of 15 minute Cities.  Nobody is proposing a travel ban except, it seems, some fantasy gremlin within your skull.  It’s not real!Then ‘I feel sorry for the next generation because it seems they will have limited choices’.  Well yes, freedom to travel and work in Europe has been sadly taken away for the time being but please don’t imagine that the concept of 15 Minute Cities bears any connection to that.  It’s mad!  Carry on if you like, but I’m saying no more on this thread because I’ve nothing to add.

Alastair Banton ● 1419d

You do with the 15 min city as well.  The concept and reality has been around for yonks - it is the successful city where not all the corner shops have closed down...  If you want the convenience of those you have to use... or lose them.  There was something more recently on the BBC about them.  There's is lots online.

Philippa Bond ● 1419d

Paul "Car dependency for everyday living is a caged existence and you want to imprison yourselves. Wake up! And if you don't fine, you'll be pushed aside by progress that you are powerless to stop anyway."So if you are elderly and/or infirm such that a car is a necessity in order to provide some sort of reasonable life Paul is of the view that you should be pushed aside.  Leaving aside that this would be a clear breach of equalities law, it doesn't paint a picture of a caring society.  I do hope Paul never has to discover for himself due to age/health issue what life would be like in his utopia when he absolutely needed powered transport to get around

Justin Stephenson ● 1419d

If you want intelligent and nuanced responses then try writing something intelligent in the first place. Write something stupid and hysterical as you keep doing and expect to be ridiculed.

Paul Campbell ● 1419d