Forum Topic

What a relief..

… to wake up with a glimmer of hope that a new PM, is going to give  us some stability and is not a lazy liar or rather simple.  I’m sure I’ll find loads to criticise him over but if he can repair any of the damage to the reputation of the UK then good.

Stewart Jones ● 1427d54 Comments

But he's still a Tory and looks like he'll be going for the same austerity they've imposed on us for over 10 years.  'Difficult choices' means greater poverty and more inequality.

Peter Evans ● 1427d

So what would you propose ? More public spending, paid for by higher taxes ? More public borrowing, to be paid for by future generations ? Or do you know the location of a magic money tree ?

Richard Greenhough ● 1426d

More public spending, paid for by higher taxes ? Absolutely!

Robert Fish ● 1426d

He has some real challenges. But at least we have someone who understands the issues and possibly will get to grips with them.  He is a pragmatist.    However the problems for the Tory party will remain and the divisions will remain.  A bit like Major found from 1992 to 1997 it will be the right wing part of the party that will bring it down ultimately.  It is the equal and opposite of the local Labour party in LBH on the local transport scheme - ideologues not pragmatists.  As the evidence stacks up against them, they are in denial unable to move on from their own narrow cause, that goes against local democracy and undermines any notion that they wish to tackle climate change, by simply pushing traffic from one place to another making pollution worse.  They need to follow the lead of Sir Keir.The UK and the world needs politics to return to the centre ground and work with the many people it is meant to serve, not the few.

Jonathan Mabbutt ● 1426d

It would be churlish not to wish Rishi Sunak well - although I don't think anyone could put things right given the monumental balls-up that he's been left with, at least you get the impression there is a thinking adult in the room now. As for Truss - that speech! Not a hint that she understood what a complete mess she's left - I think she's on something with that silly grin on her face. And, note to the BBC leave Maxine Croxall alone, I watched that late night news programme on Sunday and anyone would have been hard pushed not to have roared with laughing at the comments made by the Parliamentary journalist - name of Joe, who was extremely funny saying that not only did Johnson think he could be P.M. of the U.K. he probably thought he could win the Presidential election in the U.S.A.

Vanessa Smith ● 1426d

Not even Smiffy acknowledges that Sunak played a major role in getting us into such a state, and all quite purposefully. They do not represent us; their job is to keep us down.

Michael Brown ● 1426d

Sunak was front and center in the Tory austerity plan.You must be doolally to think this near billionaire, married to a billionaire has any empathy or understanding for the average man and women in Britain.

Basil Finnis ● 1426d

Why is wealth such a problem to so many especially Labour supporters,cannot understand how that affects the job he is doing, not that he is mychoice or ever would be.

Janice Evans ● 1426d

Yes, a huge relief indeed.  And I agree that Sunak is a very long way from what this country needs in a PM at the moment but he was the better of a bad bunch.    It will be interesting to see how he manages the multiple problems that are to a very large extent the consequences of a decade plus of poor Tory government choices in which he was complicit.  I’m not optimistic.(But another reason to be cheerful 1,2,3 - we don’t have to suffer the sight of BJ and his endless nonsense night after night on the News which had seemed a torturous prospect for a while. Grateful for small mercies!)

Alastair Banton ● 1426d

Ignoring Michael's rude post - I am well aware of Sunak's part in the mess we're in - neither do I need reminding about his excessive wealth and the fact he went to one of the oldest public schools in the country. I do not for one minute believe he has a clue how the rest of us live day to day, and I do think a General Election should have been called. However, given the intelligence vacuum that was Truss and Sunak's warnings throughout their never-ending leadership election, he seems to have a clue about finance. I don't like it and I don't agree with much of it, but we certainly could not just bumble on as we have for far too long.

Vanessa Smith ● 1426d

But even Sunak will only put forward policies as directed by his unelected Masters. The task is to ensure that ordinary people can never rise up and challenge for power.

Michael Brown ● 1426d

MIchael, to do all you say they would have to stay in power or are yousaying all Governements are doing the same.

Janice Evans ● 1426d

All governments are doing the same; or if they refuse, pay the consequences.

Michael Brown ● 1426d

As we can't trust what many of the principal players in this farce are telling us, we may have to wait for their memoirs to know precisely what happened.One thing that does seem certain now is that Johnson's (the unflushable turd as OFCOM has confirmed it is okay to call him) political career is over. The bitterness towards him from the ERG who blame him for effectively blocking the candidacy of a right wing candidate to put up against Sunak (laughably that probably would have been Braverman) means he has burnt his boats with them.The only other group of any meaningful size who supported him were the red wall MPs who assumed he would add about 5 percentage points to their vote and revive their slim hope of hanging on. Professor John Curtace was doing the media rounds pointing out that this was a sad delusion.One question that remains open is did he really have the hundred votes needed. Despite claims that this has been verified, the numbers suggest not. If he really did, Penny Mordaunt would have had no problem getting to one hundred as most of Johnson's claimed 102 supporters would have switched to her and there were still another hundred or so undeclared who she could have expected to have picked up a reasonable number.Most Johnson supporters will have openly declared for him because of pressure from their constituency association. There isn't really a good reason why any MP would have not publically declared for him.What I've head from more than one person is that, whether Johnson had the votes or not, it was made very clear to him that he would have been unable to form a government. With defections, sex scandals and forthcoming ennoblements he would have taken over with a notional majority of 60 but there were significantly more than 30 Conservative MPs who regarded him as unfit to govern and were intending to stand down or knew that they would lose their seat at the next election. Therefore, they would have been indifferent to losing the Tory whip.This would mean that King Charles could not have been given an assurance that Johnson would have been able to form a government. A full blown constitutional crisis would have followed as it is well known that Johnson and Charles don't get on and the buffoon's cultish followers would blame the Monarch for what was happening.Johnson seems certain to lose in Uxbridge and his plan would have been to get himself a safe seat so at least he could remain in parliament after most of his colleagues were ousted in 2024.Now he is likely to resume a life of holidays and highly paid public speaking engagements to cover the cost of his divorce, maintenance payments for his many children, pay offs for former mistresses and the expensive tastes of his current wife.I suspect he will be secretly quite grateful if the privileges committee find him guilty of knowingly misleading the house (which we all know he did and apparently they have compelling evidence to prove) meaning that he is relieved of the burden of having to represent the good people of Uxbridge (who we know he despises any way).The unflushable turd will finally be flushed.

Francis Rowe ● 1426d

Overheard on a bus yesterday 'At least Sunak looks like he's good at maths'.

Keith Iddon ● 1426d

At least two posters on this thread have referred to the austerity programmes of the Conservative Government. This austerity narrative is one that opposition parties are increasingly peddling. Following the global financial crisis in 2008 (when we had a Labour Government) austerity/retrenchment programmes were put in place across the western world. The incoming Cameron led Coalition in 2010 had little alternative but to continue a policy of fiscal and monetary restraint.It is a feature of human beings that they must always have someone to blame regardless of the facts. The Cameron Government ring fenced certain areas of public expenditure (e.g. NHS and Overseas Aid) and protected their budgets. Spending on the NHS has increased year on year in nominal and real terms. There was a big increase due to Covid. Spending on Defence has been flat lining for over a decade.The demand for health care and social services is ever expanding due to demographic (i.e. we are living longer) and technological reasons (i.e. we can do more). To fund this taxes have to up and despite what many people think there are just not enough rich people to bridge the gap. What do you mean by rich anyway; Head Teachers, Judges, Police Commissioners, Surgeons, Medical Consultants and Trade Union Leaders?We have been unable to grow our economy or increase the productivity of our work force significantly since 2010. If Labour, The SNP or the Liberals have any magic solutions then we should listen to them. However our post-war economic history is littered with plans that have failed Trussonomics is just the latest one to hit the buffers. The fiscal and monetary restraint shown by Conservative Governments meant that we were able to fund the massive government expenditure required to deal with Covid. The huge increase in debt that was racked up was only possible because HMG was trusted. Truss of course blew all this out of the water with her unfunded "go for growth" strategy.Her measures have been at least partially reversed but we are left with the backwash and of course the ongoing Covid issues (battered NHS and depleted work force). The war in the Ukraine is disrupting world trade and forcing up fuel and food prices. Any government would have to deal with these problems.Blaming Tory Austerity just does not wash. The facts do not fit the narrative.   

Sam Hearn ● 1426d

Michael, why aren't you in your kayak in the Channel helping to keep out the invading hordes ?

Richard Greenhough ● 1426d

All this call for a general election and I still have yet to hear what any of the other parties would do differently given the current economic climate.Personally I think Sunak is the right man for the job.

Chris Blackwell ● 1426d

I don't know enough about economics to contradict Sam's analysis but it has a broad ring of truth about it and I agree Sunak is the right person for the job right now.The problem is he is the short term fix for the catastrophy created by Trussonomics but will be unable to deal with the underlying problem of our slow puncture economy and the very poor trade performance since Brexit. This was the issue Truss was trying to deal with and, although she handled it cackhandedly, she was asking some of the right questions. Week by week it is becoming increasingly obvious that the only way out of a spiral of economic decline for the UK is to rejoin the EU.

Francis Rowe ● 1426d

Aren't they worse off

Janice Evans ● 1426d

Truss didn't pour £500b down the drain - Sunak did; and as a 'top' economist, he knew, of course, what economic devestation that would cause. All planned.

Michael Brown ● 1426d

Give all UK's public services sector workers a 10% payrise for starters.

Julian Pavey ● 1426d

I heard someone this morning point out that inflation in Germany is significantly higher than in the UK. Rejoining the EU is not a panacea for all economic problems.

Richard Greenhough ● 1426d

Michael - I assume that you are referring to the money spent on fighting Covid ? I do wish you would explain to us whether you caught it yourself or if not, what measures you took to avoid doing so.

Richard Greenhough ● 1426d

I think rejoining the E.U. any time soon would be politically impossible - and given the UK’s recent upheavals would they even accept us back?  (In the longer term I’m sure we will end up in a closer, friendlier relationship).  But there are other possible options such as rejoining the single market or customs Union as argued here.  And no of course it’s not a panacea for ALL our economic ills.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/25/rishi-sunak-rejoin-single-market-customs-union-brexit-lies?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Alastair Banton ● 1426d

Richard, rather than relying on something overheard why not just look up the actual numbers which are easy enough to find. German inflation for September is 10% about the same as ours.Nobody is saying that being in the EU protects a country from the current inflation which is primarily driven by higher fuel and food prices. The problem that is becoming increasingly stark for the UK is our poor trade performance. This has resulted in our economic growth which is less than half of the EU's since Brexit.The compensation for the UK was meant to be much better trade arrangements with other countries outside the EU. We know this is definitely not going to happen with the US, probably not going to happen with China. We may get something with India but that will probably boil down to a much more liberal visa regime in return for reduced tariffs on whiskey. Good news in itself as it will help us deal with chronic skill shortages but probably won't be enough to reverse our underperformance.The OBR estimates that Brexit has cost us 4% of GDP which is more than Covid now. We wouldn't necessarily get all of that back if we rejoined but it would be a huge shot in the arm and there would be nothing to stop us continuing the deal with India as well. That we would no longer be required to pay the 'divorce bill' would also make a meaningful difference to our debt position.Our 10 year bond yields are also about 1.5% percentage points above Germany's and around 0.8% above France's. Pre-Brexit we could have been expected to have been between the two. If we reverted to that level our borrowing costs would fall significantly and much of that could be ploughed back into services. If we fail to generate growth the yield premium for gilts will start to grow again and there will be the reverse effect.

Francis Rowe ● 1426d

The most obvious part solution to the UK's current economic problems is for the UK to re-join the EU single market, which Margaret Thatcher helped establish. I cannot see Sunak or Starmer carrying it out.

Chris Dakers ● 1426d

As far as I am aware, there is no significant body of opinion within the EU that the UK should not be given prompt readmittance. There may be disagreements over the terms but, as it has been detrimental to both parties that we left, these should be easily navigated.The main obstacle appears to be Keir Starmer's determination not to make it a 2024 election issue. He may be being tactically astute and calculating by that stage even the most hard core Brexiteers will have accepted it has been a disaster but he is not serving the best interests of the nation by delaying us rejoining.

Francis Rowe ● 1426d

If we were part of the EU Covid would have claimed far more lives (worldwide), Kiev would have been overun within weeks and the Ukraine would be a satrap of the Russian Federation.

Sam Hearn ● 1426d

Sam, that's really not worthy of you. Those are completely preposterous and baseless claims and insulting both to the NHS and the people and armed forces of Ukraine.

Francis Rowe ● 1426d

"Kiev would have been overun within weeks"That is a very fair point id not thought about.

Julian Pavey ● 1426d

Cabinet announced - not impressed, a government of the talentless if ever there was one.

Vanessa Smith ● 1426d

No surprise there then vanessa.Maybe next year we will have a rich privileged man take over from a very rich privileged man with another rich privileged man commenting and advising from the sidelines.

Julian Pavey ● 1426d

I agree with you 100%. I cannot see our economy growing much. As for productivity, well, people are just not motivated and worn out.

Nicholas Beard ● 1426d

Therese Coffey as environment secretary-omg. She'll be worse than Bolsinaro for animals and nature. And that weird Braverman back as home sec. And Schapps back. Head in hands.  We need to get rid of the lot NOW before they do even more damage to this country.  Bunch of souless vandals.

Claire Moran ● 1426d

If spending £500b on Covid in relation to lockdowns, furlough, track 'n' trace, vaccines etc. was the right thing to do considering both public health and the economy, who would support the spending of another £500b if a new virus arrives on our shores within the next year? If not, why not?

Michael Brown ● 1426d

And if another virus turns up one year on from that, who would support the spending of another £500b? If not, why not?

Michael Brown ● 1426d

Have to say I am also taken aback by the simplistic talking points about EU membership put forward by Sam Hearn who I always considered to be a person of some heft.The vaccine argument has been debunked already. If you are not sure about the specifics, talk to someone who works in the pharmacuetical industry and they will explain to you why it is nonsense. If it were true, it raises uncomfortable questions about why our Covid fatality rates were relatively high in a European context say compared to Germany or Ireland, given that we had this advantage. The point about Ukraine is a new one on me. There is no doubt that Boris Johnson was a loud supporter of the resistance to Russian agression from day one, although you should listen to the excellent Londongrad podcast by Tortoise for an insight into how he had previously been an enabler of Putin's expansionary policies. It is also the case that some EU countries such as Germany and Hungary have been less enthusiastic about supporting Ukraine.However, I can't begin to understand the argument that we would have been constrained in any way by being in the EU in military support for Ukraine. As I understand it the main brake on what we gave was Treasury concerns - it has temporarily slipped my mind who was Chancellor when the war broke out.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 1426d

Johnson, lest we forget, delivered Putin’s wish for Brexit.

Stewart Jones ● 1425d

Glad that someone else has mentioned the Londongrad podcast - it's compelling and shocking. I would strongly urge anyone who remains of the belief that Johnson was ever a fit person to run this country to listen to it.Just to ensure that confirmation bias isn't at play in both directions, if anyone can recommend a podcast, social media feed or book that might undermine my conviction that Brexit is a disaster, I'd definitely take the time to listen to it or read it.

Francis Rowe ● 1425d

Patrick Cockburn in the 'i':'The devastating impact of Brexit was highlighted this month by Mark Carney, who was for seven years head of the Bank of England. He cited a couple of damning statistics. Asked in an interview about the economic consequences of Brexit, he said" Put it this way, in 2016 the British economy was 90 percent the size of Germany's. Now it is less than 70 per cent. And that calculation was made before today."'Sunak is a 'true believer' in a decision that almost all economic experts agree has done nothing but self-harm to Britain. He may get a sympathy vote as he inherits deep problems, but he shares in responsibility for creating them in the first place.'

Vanessa Smith ● 1425d

I’d like to hear that too, although I fear we might be waiting a while.

Stewart Jones ● 1425d

Rishi Sunak spends £500b to keep everyone at home during the spread of a mild virus, destroying the economy, the Health Service and pretty much everything else.Two Prime Ministers later, the right man is found to fix the problem - Rishi Sunak!But Sunak is not alone. Economies around the world were being destroyed simultaneously in this Globalist plot; but it was real wasn't it - people were wearing masks, marching 2m apart and having fake vaccines - that only killed and maimed! To bring in the New World Order, the original systems always had to be destroyed first. The only other requirement was a load of mugs!

Michael Brown ● 1425d

Is he ‘watering down ‘ society too?

Stewart Jones ● 1425d

He also argued against it, was overruled by Boris. Maybe Mr B has a codswallop explanation, with some very old and nasty conspiracy theories?

Russell Pearson ● 1425d

I think you might be on to something ! The clues are there……

Stewart Jones ● 1424d

"Therese Coffey as environment secretary-omg."But thank God she is no longer Health Secretary.

Steve Taylor ● 1424d

"But thank God she is no longer Health Secretary."So Rishi is now God ? Another day, another promotion !

Richard Greenhough ● 1424d

How on earth did she ever get to be in any government position in the first place?

Brian Coyle ● 1424d

"The only other requirement was a load of mugs!"They were 100% sure that they had a load of mugs. The Brexit referendum was proof of that!

Steve Taylor ● 1424d

"How on earth did she ever get to be in any government position in the first place?"She was appointed by the fool, Truss, who was appointed by the racist party membership. 

Steve Taylor ● 1424d

The lying buffoon appointed her first, then the fool.

Stewart Jones ● 1424d

Seems like Michael may have followed my advice - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63424568

Richard Greenhough ● 1423d

Brigadier, you'll be pleased to know that I passed my Olympic Assessment at Lee Valley Whitewater Centre a couple of weeks ago. That's the Centre and Course that was built for the Kayaking slalom events at the 2012 London Olympics. I'm not as good as them, of course - I can just about get down it, but there you go!

Michael Brown ● 1423d