Forum Topic

Truss has no mandate

Nice piece from Nick Cohen in the Speccie“Truss has no mandate for the disaster she has inflicted on us from the electorate. She has no mandate from the cabinet. She has no mandate from the parliamentary Conservative party. She has no mandate from a winning election manifesto.She has the votes of the 81,326 Conservative members (0.18 per cent of the electorate) who supported her in the leadership contest. I suspect she is about to learn the hard way that that is no mandate at all.”https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-is-not-what-democracy-looks-like

Russell Pearson ● 1449d95 Comments

Nick Cohen, Spectator? Says all you need to know about that horseshit muncher and that right wing trash rag.

Basil Finnis ● 1449d

Super sophisticated analysis from Bazzer. Meanwhile, she’s done a U Turn and dropped the 45p rate.

Russell Pearson ● 1449d

"She has the votes of the 81,326 Conservative members (0.18 per cent of the electorate) who supported her in the leadership contest."Are "Conservative members" even eligible UK voters?  I'm not at all sure that they are.

Philippa Bond ● 1449d

Most are I’d assume, but not all. Some will not even be eligible to vote in the UK according to this website.https://www.conservativesabroad.org/get-involved

Russell Pearson ● 1449d

Strictly speaking, the U turn is to retain the 45p rate, not to drop it.

Richard Greenhough ● 1449d

Richard Greenhough " Strictly speaking, the U turn is to retain the 45p rate, not to drop it."He said it had become a "distraction"And you can see his point. What with the pound and gilts both disappearing down the toilet, to be shortly followed by his own career, you can imagine he could indeed have found it all a bit of a "distraction".Never mind, it will soon all be forgotten and confidence will be restored. Everyone will  now know that the UK economy is being run by someone who, along with his boss*, definitely knows what he's doing; and is not simply making it up as he goes along. michael adams 

Michael Adams ● 1449d

And also not old enough to vote here I think.

Philippa Bond ● 1449d

Has anyone else with a defined contributions pension looked to see what the government's actions of the last two weeks have done to the value of their pension pot?  Probably a drop of 5% to 10% in value.And anyone looking to take out a mortgage, or comming to the end of a fixed rate?  Interest rates have doubled. So someone with a £300,000 mortgage can expect to pay at least another £9,000 a year in interest.None of this should come as a surprise. The market reaction was obvious.  This is a consequence of supreme arrogance by the Chancellor and the PM, ignoring (or refusing to accept) advice, and thinking that they knew best.And then we had Truss on Laura Kuenssberg yesterday saying that mortgage rates are set by the Bank of England, and not by market rates.  What absolute nonsense.  She is either dishonest, or an idiot (or both).  Mortgage lenders borrow money on the markets to lend to customers (and then often package up mortages and sell them back into the market).  The cost of money by the mortgage lenders is driven by market rates (which may indirectly reflect Bank of England base rates).

T P Howell ● 1449d

Yes, I've looked at mine, TP. It's beem losing on average nearly 2% per month since the beginning of the year, as the Ukraine crisis has developed. However, in the last two weeks it's lost 5.4%, and the market havoc after the budget caused it to lose 2.5% in a single day.

Robert Fish ● 1448d

'The Tories face a self inflicted crisis after shredding their credibility in that bungled mini-Budget. But this disaster has been brewing for years with corrosion of their brand amid a populist takeover, driven by ideologues obsessed with Europe and shrinking the state who saw Boris as their useful idiot...Suddenly it looks a spent force, hollowed by the ideologists and opportunists who drove out moderates, undermined businesses, destroyed economic credibility and - while wrapping themselves in the flag - wrecked our nation's standing as a bastion of good sense and democratic solidarity. Perhaps Conservatives can save themselves, starting in Birmingham, but first they would do well to ponder the point of their party.'Ian Birrell - today's 'i'

Vanessa Smith ● 1448d

Always look at the long game and stay invested. Annuity rates rise on the back of interest rate rises, and interest rate rises are a global phenomenon as countries try to control inflation. Currencies also respond to interest rate rises. Capital values ebb and flow, so now is not the time to lament gains and losses. There is a way to go yet - to be measured in years.

Mandy Waters ● 1448d

Meanwhile, USA federal bank along with all those obscenely pecunious dollar dudes are hellbent on protecting their dollar portfolios over any other world currencies which can, as far as the USA is concerned go jump off the nearest cliff if that's the outcome of another independent currency trying to have a go at playing the money market's power game.

Bobbie Carnegie ● 1448d

My Aviva shares have been dropping since the war started.Don't worry, no one says anything about elsewhere"EU AT RISK OF FINANCIAL MELTDOWN""EU SYSTEMIC RISK BOARD ISSUES WARNING TO EU FINANCIAL STABILITY" The problem is the media don't want to talk about anything else. It's all Liz truss's. Even those shouting about the drop in income tax are now shouting out about doing a U-turn. You can't have it both ways.We are being run more and more by the media

Julian Pavey ● 1448d

Of course, everything's been dropping since the war started. Of course, other countries are affected. But the bone-headed stupidity of Truss's administration has greatly exacerbated the problem in this country. We are indeed being run more and more by the media. Without the campaigning of two tabloids in particular we might never have been lumbered with this government.

Robert Fish ● 1448d

"Without the campaigning of two tabloids in particular we might never have been lumbered with this government."So you would have preferred to stick with Boris's government even after Rishi resigned?

Steve Taylor ● 1448d

Don't be silly. Of course not! Rishi was an option to replace him. Less than ideal, but infinitely preferable to the madwoman.

Robert Fish ● 1448d

There is no doubt that Truss and Kwarteng,off their own bats without even consulting their cabinet have flung this far further out of control than it need be, and I think the chickens will come home to roost on that on.But if you are doubting whether the interest rate rise is world wide or not,a friend in Australia  now has to pay AU$1000 pm more on his mortgage,thats about £600.Prices there too are rising from and already high bench mark,which in my experience were very often higher than here already.

Keith Iddon ● 1448d

The article is a bit silly.  Thankfully we do not have a presidential system, so unless you live in Truss' constituency you cannot vote for her.  So effectively no PM in this country has ever had a mandate from the electorate.  Even the idea that if you win a general election you have a manifesto mandate is ill thought out for a couple of reasons: the winning party never gets more than 50% of the votes, merely wins more than 50% of the available seats; and since when did a winning party only implement the manifesto promises (and even then only some of them), the reality is that policies are shaped by eventsIt is pretty obvious that Truss is hopelessly out of her depth and that the Tory party picked the wrong leader

Justin Stephenson ● 1447d

Today I learnt from a commercial property agent that 9 of his 15 deals that were supposed to complete this week have been pulled by the buyers because of the chaos caused by the non-budget. Most were overseas purchasers.So much for promoting investment into the UK.  On that one anecdote alone Truss and Kawtang have halved overseas investment into the UK overnight.

T P Howell ● 1447d

Aren't the markets, being uncertain about UK, doing what they do best and pausing, holding cards close to the chest, withdrawing a handful of chips off the table, until their profiteering games are able more clearly and smoothly to be played among compliant partners ~ like the prospect of Keir Starmer's Tory-lite Labour Party looking compliant and of something to manipulate once more?

Bobbie Carnegie ● 1447d

I notice FITCH has downgraded the UK outlook to negative.

Nicholas Beard ● 1446d

You would?Same rating as Jun 18 2021,Mar 27 2020.The rating means Very strong capacity to meet its financial commitments from Extremely strong capacity to meet its financial commitments. Dont let that get in the way of the headline. Not that im saying things are great.

Julian Pavey ● 1446d

Any changes need time and there is often a drop off at the start, understand people's impatience as it's one thing after another althoughthink the war in Ukraine is most worrying, terrible things have gone on.

Janice Evans ● 1446d

People up and down the country on or off fixed rate mortgages will soon see their monthly repayments double if not treble very very soon.I have been at the sharp end of this before when repossessions soared, divorce rates soared and house prices fell by as much as fifty percentage in some parts of the country.Janice much as we love you, the "drop off" will soon be a plunge if history is anything to go by.Chin up everbody, at least we know it's nothing to do with the mini budget or the competence of the Conservative Government. They have made that quite clear, it's all those anti growth people we have to blame. The new enemy.

Adrian Irving ● 1445d

I think a lot of people were worried about their pensions. The BOE has confirmed they came near to collapse.

Nicholas Beard ● 1444d

I am extremely concerned about my defined contribution pension. It's dropped by a third. Thanks very much, Liz.

Claire Moran ● 1437d

You are 100% right. She has been a disaster. Interestingly, for you, there is a clear progression from Farage, to referendum, to Brexit, to Johnson, to UK neo-liberal, to Truss. Reap what you sow.

Alan Clark ● 1437d

It's global, however it's never good the change leaders during difficult times, pensions also crashed under Labour and that was without Putin, Covid etc, etc,

Janice Evans ● 1437d

There should be more protection for those paying into private pensions as they are trying to provide for themselves and going without other things to pay into these pensions, it all seems wrong somehow.

Janice Evans ● 1437d

Yes, defined contribution pensions and stocks and shares ISA's have plummeted since Truss and Kwarteng stuffed up the markets. I believe that only Defined Benefit schemes have been immune to the irresponsible blunders of the incompetent duo.

Steve Taylor ● 1435d

'It's global,'Straight out of the Liz Truss playbook, when things go wrong it is a) global b) Putin c) War in Ukraine d) The Bank of England d) the markets or a combination of all three plus. It is never the fault of this government. Indefensible.

Vanessa Smith ● 1435d

Vanessa there is no question that Truzz policies have contributed to the madness in the financial markets right now. If we are discussing the issue it is only fair to fact check, the global world has been affected by energy prices which is a direct result of Putin war but of course Putin knows he has this lever to pull as a result prices are rising globally, interest rates are going up. Covid has crated a supply chain issue as so many goods or components it manufacturing come out if China and there have taken a zero covid response all if these issues are creating problems.  The difference being other governments are managing their economies responsibly. What Truzz did is unforgivable and to think she thought she could get away with it is either arrogant or naive.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1435d

Not so. Annuities are higher now than for years.  The bigger impact has been on defined benefit schemes which now the supporting company ones will have to look at how to recapitalise, another drag on growth and productivity. 

John Hall ● 1435d

'Covid has crated a supply chain issue as so many goods or components'  Really? I beg to differ - please do try and read Matthew Syed in 'The Sunday Times' - 'Irrational faith in the providence in Brexit has trapped adherents in cognitive dissonance and denial'. Compares the Brexiteer lunatics with a UFO cult, extremely thought provoking.

Vanessa Smith ● 1435d

JT > "What Truzz did is unforgivable and to think she thought she could get away with it is either arrogant or naive."She made her intentions very clear throughout her leadership campaign and was elected fairly and squarely by the membership.It's what the party wanted.As the Daily Mail splashed across its front page:AT LAST! A TRUE TORY BUDGET

John Whitworth ● 1435d

Vanessa I work in the tech industry and I can assure you covid has had a huge knock on effect due to so much reliance on China, hence some of the major corps are building manufacturing plants back in the west. The issue is manufacturing time there is too much reliance on China because it is cheaper. They have had so many lockdowns hence big gaps in manufacturing. So goods will increase as some corps opt to move manufacturing base elsewhere.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1435d

Jayne - cut it however you may, the fact is Brexit came first and Covid just piled misery on misery, it is a disaster but no-one is going to admit it who voted for it, hence the comparison with the cults. All people who are wedded to these ideas will defend them by simply changing the narrative to fit and Brexiteers are a prime example.

Vanessa Smith ● 1435d

We are better off than a lot of EU Countries at the moment, depends ofcourse on what happens I did say they would regret Boris going.

Janice Evans ● 1435d

Vanessa please be polite I didn’t vote for Brexit and I find your comment offensive, it is fact that covid has created supply chain issues because so many products come from China. The UK is NOT the only country that has supply chain issues, read up on China manufacturing, hundred of factories have been in lockdown multiple times in some cases due to china’s zero covid policy and this has created supply issues FACT. I made no references to Brexit.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1435d

A drag on growth! Correct, it's no use people pretending it's not!

Nicholas Beard ● 1435d

It is surprising that anyone would regret the resignation of a man who lied to protect a sex pest.

Stewart Jones ● 1435d

'Vanessa please be polite I didn’t vote for Brexit and I find your comment offensive, it is fact that covid has created supply chain issues because so many products come from China. The UK is NOT the only country that has supply chain issues, read up on China manufacturing, hundred of factories have been in lockdown multiple times in some cases due to china’s zero covid policy and this has created supply issues FACT. I made no references to Brexit.'Good grief! Talk about touchy - I don't believe I said you personally voted for Brexit, but I have to disagree with some of what you have said - that's all. Doesn't take much to offend some people does it?Forum Home

Vanessa Smith ● 1435d

If all you can say about him is that he lied Stewart 🙊

Janice Evans ● 1435d

Janice, you’re well aware that I can say a lot more about him but if you are happy to overlook the fact that a serial liar held the highest office then there really is not a lot of hope.

Stewart Jones ● 1435d

But let’s just agree to differ!

Stewart Jones ● 1435d

Perhaps she feels she has a mandate from all the people who have donated to her leadership campaign eg perhaps those with oil and fracking interests?  There are declaration lists...

Philippa Bond ● 1435d

I always do Stewart, I could say lots about what's gone on but prefer notto stoop so low.

Janice Evans ● 1435d

" The bigger impact has been on defined benefit schemes "Why do you think that?

Steve Taylor ● 1435d

Have you not seen the news? These are the schemes that have been hedging with derivatives. 

John Hall ● 1435d

So it's back to square one, or even square zero, with Truss' attempt at a 'revolutionary' budget and presumably most of her other policies. But never mind, the Tories, with their self-appointed divine right to rule, look to continue with their private game of pass the PM parcel and have another go. Never mind what the public thinks. Who needs elections and all that democracy nonsense when we know best!  Er, maybe not by the looks of things!  Stand by Starmer, you'd better rustle up a few policies PDQ!

Peter Evans ● 1434d

Can't quite see Keir Starmer becoming PM any time soon, and nor can I see Liz Truss lasting much longer. She'll be packing her bags soon, and off to write her memoirs, replaced by Jeremy Hunt.

Brian Coyle ● 1434d

Yes I have watched the news carefully and I am a trustee of our defined benefits  scheme.

Steve Taylor ● 1434d

What astounds me is that the journalists haven’t confronted any of the sycophant MPs who were so gleeful with their chants of ‘hear, hear’ on every point the buffoon, Kwarteng, made during his mini budget speech!  Some of them could hardly contain themselves when voicing their approval. Plenty of wet seats on the Tory benches!

Steve Taylor ● 1434d

Going to get even stickier. At least a few thousand Tories voted for Truss. Who voted for Jeremy? Who decided he should be the de facto PM?

Russell Pearson ● 1434d

RP > "Who decided he should be the de facto PM?"The Anti-Growth Coalition?

John Whitworth ● 1434d

Jayne is right it's the difference how we handle our economy and the way other countries do. For example I will never be convinced that to shut down a lot of of our gas storage facilities was a good idea.

Nicholas Beard ● 1433d

Carts before horses

Philippa Bond ● 1433d

Who knows. What we do know is that they need a General Election to gain any legitimacy. And on current odds that’s a game over. A party set to self destruct in the meantime?

Russell Pearson ● 1433d

The New World Order with worse than Communist policies are now running the show. We've witnessed a coup enabled by infiltrators like Jeremy Hunt, and it's no coincidence that his wife is Chinese; and Starmer won't save you - he's another NWO puppet.

Michael Brown ● 1433d

That's why the government is allowing around 1,000 illegal immigrants into the UK via the South Coast every day - to water down society, particularly the middle classes, to create a slave race. High food and energy prices would help their cause too!I've been telling you fools for years what's coming, and it's picking up pace now.

Michael Brown ● 1433d

What happen to the reptiles ?

Janice Evans ● 1433d

A global government will require a global police force, so you'll find that the MET will be continually discredited to make it more acceptable to the public when it is replaced.Oh!!

Michael Brown ● 1433d

What we need is a fleet of armed kayakers in the Channel to keep out the invading hordes of slave workers. All known skilled kayakers will face immediate conscription.

Richard Greenhough ● 1433d

´water down society’I think we know the king of person you are, Michael. No blacks, no Irish…….

Stewart Jones ● 1433d

Richard, don’t forget the pedalos! The country needs them!

Stewart Jones ● 1433d

You think 1,000 illegal immigrants could enter the UK daily if the government didn't want them here? They're immediately provided with warm clothing and a welcome pack before being taken to hotels, many of which are plush. The owner of Camelot Castle recently turned the government's kind offer to completely fill it with illegal immigrants, although he thought it was a joke!

Michael Brown ● 1433d

International law is quite clear on this matter, a quick google will help you.Your resentment is founded in racism and xenophobia otherwise what was the ´water down society’ comment about? And what about the reptiles?

Stewart Jones ● 1433d

Such racist drivel from Michael. On previous form, can we expect an antisemitic conspiracy theory next?

Russell Pearson ● 1432d

Thanks Russell.  I was concerned that I would be the only person to point out his blatant racism. I didn’t realise the extent of his previous form.

Stewart Jones ● 1432d

The Chief Whip's resigned.Truss must resign now, how can she stay ?

Ben Gemmingen ● 1432d

Breaking news……..the government.

Stewart Jones ● 1432d

He has more form than a jockey’s notebook. Some very odd and horrible ideas put forward.

Russell Pearson ● 1432d

More Globalist Remoaners signed up to Cabinet. The NWO coup continues. Democracy has been non-existent for sometime, but is becoming more apparent to the naive and unsuspecting..

Michael Brown ● 1432d

Says the racist.

Stewart Jones ● 1432d

I know Grant Shapps is an idiot, but I didn't know he was a Globalist Remoaner representative of the NWO. They must be getting desperate.

Richard Greenhough ● 1432d

So Sir Graham Brady is paying Truss a visit - doesn't bode well. In her position I'd want to salvage some dignity and go of my own accord.

Vanessa Smith ● 1431d

According to the news she requested the meeting who knows utter chaos

Jayne Thorburn ● 1431d

Bet365 has her 1/9 to go by end of 2022

David McLoughlin ● 1431d

What are the odds for out by the end of the day?

Brian Green ● 1431d

She didn't make an hour!

Kieran Fox ● 1431d

1.37 to go in 2022 yesterday this morning 1.18 and then an hour ago 1.02 and then 1.01 20mins before statement

Julian Pavey ● 1431d

Hurrah! At last. Soon a new circus.

Sarah Vickers ● 1431d

Good riddance to the moron who has wrecked the uk economy together with he Buffoon chancellor. Hopefully neither of them will be able to sleep for years to come after subjecting this country to such misery. And shame on the conservative members who voted for her in the first place when it was blatantly clear that she just didn’t have a clue compared to Rishi.  Hopefully the next PM will be privately educated!!

Steve Taylor ● 1431d

Keir went to Reigate Grammar school, in his last year it went independent although he didn't have to pay fees.

David McLoughlin ● 1431d

I feel sorry for Truss in that she made it quite clear what her revolutionary policies would be and was elected by the Tory party to carry them out.  But as soon as she tried to do so, her policies were overturned and she was sidelined, so she had no alternative but to step down - which is pretty well what she said in her resignation speech. What I find more outrageous is that the Tories are so arrogant they feel they have the divine right to have another go at selecting yet another Prime Minister from among their number.  As Einstein said, 'Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.'  Meanwhile the British public looks on helplessly while the rest world treats us with the amused contempt we deserve.

Peter Evans ● 1431d

"Meanwhile the British public looks on helplessly ..."Well, the British public elected the Tory government for 5 years, and the Tories are duly following our wishes.  That's how it's meant to work, unfortunately.  It's all our fault!

Richard Jennings ● 1431d

No, it's the fault of the Labour Party for putting forward Old Jeremiah as their candidate for PM. The choice between him and Bojo was a case of between the devil and the deep blue sea.

Richard Greenhough ● 1431d

I see Boris lurking in the shadows.

Brian Coyle ● 1431d

Are you for real, Richard? Whatever Corbyn's faults (and I'm no supporter of his) he could scarcely have been any worse than the last two, or even three, incumbents. In my view, the unholy mess is all down to Ed Miliband's inability to eat a bacon butty with dignity!

Robert Fish ● 1431d

Sounds like you're obsessed with Corbyn?

Basil Finnis ● 1431d

You could have voted LibDem.

Stewart Jones ● 1431d

What a very silly comment, Robert.

Claire Moran ● 1431d

What a very predictable response from someone who has no sense of humour but an awful lot of rancour.

Robert Fish ● 1431d

Unfortunately, in my opinion, the electorate destroyed the Lib Dems as a credible force in 2015.

Richard Greenhough ● 1431d

Thats why Ian Blackford gets second round of PMQs and Ed davey does not get a look in or if he does the media have already switched to the studio.One could call him and them irrelevant

Julian Pavey ● 1431d