Michael Robinson explained
" As I said Michael, you are a classic
keyboard warrior. It demonstrates the type of person you are if you
just want to insult people when skulking behind your computer but would
be too scared to say the same thing to their face."
Well done Michael. It seems clear you intend to derive the full value from that "Big Book of Internet Cliches" you bought on Amazon that time. Unless of course you're seriously suggesting that "classic keyboard warrior" "skulking behind a computer" and "too scared to say the same thing to their face." are all your own work. To be perfectly candid with you Michael, they're normally the kind of things people say when they're drunk.
Anyway, where were we ? Oh yes.
In answer to my question
"Why would bicycles
built to the exact dimensions to fit a rider, necessarily need to be be
hand built at all ?"
You answered
....................................................................................
They wouldn't be.
" What you have
left out is, whether it would be *economic* to set up an automated
production line where every single bike could be built differently."
So if you consider the variables involved,
the type of material, the length of tube, the angle of cut, the degree
of bending and flattening... with standardised sizing they will just set
up a machine or tooling to do the same thing every time. Tooling that
can do different things every time will be a lot more expensive."
..........................................................................................................
Er No it wouldn't. Once they've used *the machinery which
they already
have* to produce the standard size high spec models for that day they can then use that same machinery to produce individual models far more cheaply — than could individual builders doing the whole thing by hand, It's in the nature of all such machinery that it's adjustable — just by turning a knob etc and that it can handle all the different types of tubing as requred; and that it can cut, bend, and flatten far more quickly an accurately and with far less wasteage. Nowhere have I claimed that this would all need to be done automatically — only that by using the latest machinery and buying materials in bulk this would clearly be far more economic than prodcing the same bilkes using individual hand bulders scattered around the country. Unless of course the buyers wanted fancy lugs or other clear signs of hand built quality
You then went on
.......................................................................
" Same thing applies to fitting components.
With a bespoke bike, people can usually pick whatever components they
like, within reason. You could automate a machine for fitting, say, one
model of headset or bottom bracket. But a machine that has been
designed to fit *any* model of headset or bottom bracket on per bike
basis...? That would be expensive."
..........................................................................
Again where are you getting this "automated" from ? All I'm saying, as above, is that it isn't necessary that the bikes should be hand built by individuals using rudimentary machinery. Once the basic geometry has been established then obviously the design and components can be chosen. However as you go on to say
...................................................................................
" To actually get the measurements takes an
hour or two session with a skilled bike fitter with equipment such as a
jig that can be adjusted, video cameras to see how the person is cycling
on the jig and how adjustments affect this. All that has a cost."
.........................................................................................................
Indeed! But that applies whether the shop then goes on the hand builds the bikes themselves or farms the work out to a central facility equipped with the latest machinery. As has often happened in the past the farming that is with marques such as Holdsworth etc farming out the frames to individual builders.
..........................................................................................................
You concluded thus
....................................................................................
" So there isn't a big enough market of
people willing to pay the price for a totally customisable bike that
would justify the cost to set up a totally automated production facility
to make these bikes."
.................................................................................................
But where have I ever talked about an "automated production facility"
Anyway as it happens *my original point stands*. That unlike with tubing its almost impossible to tell the quality of a carbon frame bike by appearance alone. Which it is. Hence the "Pinarello" "Chinarello" farce largely based on claims along the lines of "genuine" Pinarellos are made with
real
improved XYZ67 carbon fibre unlike the fakes.
You then replied, if
you remember, that the same applied with tubing bikes as they're mainly all produced automatically. However you then *flat contradicted yourself" as after I posted a photo of a headset with excerable toothpaste welding in response to your neatness remark, you then posted a photo with almost imperctible welding — of far higher quality.
michael adams
Michael Adams ● 1460d