Forum Topic

Virgin Active Gym Theft - how safe is my phone?

I had always worked on the assumption that my personal banking details were secure on my phone but reading about the experiences of Charlotte Morgan when her phone and card were stolen from the Virgin Active gym in Chiswick Park I'm not so sure.My phone is to old to have facial recognition but it is protected by fingerprint recognition and a passcode. Am I being complacent in assuming that if it was stolen from me, there would be nothing that thieves could do with it?

Felicity Caborn ● 1481d27 Comments

Facial recognition is certainly not safe, I can unlock my phone with a photo of me if I enabled it. So if they stole some ID with her photo they may well have unlocked the phone with that, or just found a photo online.Her case sounds like there's also a serious security flaw with the banking app, if that allowed the thieves to get her PIN without any additional security measures that's very poor design.

Steve Townsend ● 1481d

Finger print is not secure Cloning the fingerprint off your screen can be done unless you clean the screen every time you use it

Julian Pavey ● 1481d

If your phone is stolen,  you can call the bank and ask them to remove the devices access to the banking app on your phone.  I'm pretty sure they can do that remotely.

Nora Watkins ● 1481d

Not sure how security works from bank to bank on an app but make sure your app is protected from use within the phone. Im a little unsure as to how they got into the phone,got into the app,made a transfer and managed to get a pin Im unsure you can easily get a pin. Having looked at santander you can view your pin within the bnking app but you need to passan additional security check in the app for it to be displayed. So in a space of time they got into the phone,got into the app and answered security questions to get the pin and managed to use it in westfield and oxford street in a shortish space of time. Im sure something is missing from this front page story. The lady in my view has a good case even if not a credit card if the above can be explained. I think that is where the bank is coming from in its responce

Julian Pavey ● 1481d

It is quite frightening, she posted a long thread of everything that happened on Twitter.One of her big issues was that as she’d had her phone stolen she couldn’t call the bank because her phone had been stolen while she was away from home.I must admit I’d struggle to contact my bank in those circumstances, Plus banks on the phone have a lot more security that we all set up when setting up the account and then can’t remember because we reply on things like facial recognition etc.

Alexandra McDevitt ● 1481d

Is voice and code word ID in use?

Keith Iddon ● 1481d

Steve, have you actually tried to unlock your phone with a photo of yourself (assuming you have Face ID enabled obviously)?And, if you tried, were you successful? You need to have your eyes open for Face ID to work on the iPhone, which makes me sceptical that a still photo would be sufficient to fool Face ID.

Andrew Jones ● 1480d

I wouldn't trust facial recognition.  My daughter used it on her phone, and it let her younger sister unlock it.

Al Webber ● 1480d

Yes I tried it before making the post, I thought maybe the technology had improved since I last tested it, but sadly not. This was on an Android phone, maybe iPhone have done a better job of protecting from this.

Steve Townsend ● 1480d

I recently applied for a new credit card and it states that you can see your PIN number in the App.  Have never had an online account before so noidea if this is usual for bank accounts also.

Janice Evans ● 1480d

More on this in You & Yours today...

Philippa Bond ● 1477d

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-62767659and not far away in Shepherds Bush -https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-62792813

Richard Greenhough ● 1477d

You & Yours |? I had to google that Anyway,result on how its done is quite shocking. How the banks can allow this to happen is nothing other than negligence in its own security. Surely they must know how this is done prior to this incident. Santander dont have a leg to stand on in a court and i hope its resolved and the lady is refunded all losses and some compinsation for what she has gone through with the bank themselves

Julian Pavey ● 1477d

I read an article on BBC teletext News UK, earlier, saying that Santander have apologised to the lady and refunded her.

Michael Brown ● 1477d

Ah cheers MBClearly they need to brush up on its people on the other end of the line

Julian Pavey ● 1477d

"BBC teletext"Is that still running ?What about ceefax ? Given the mobile phone issue and household costs on the rise CB radio could be coming back

Julian Pavey ● 1477d

"CB radio could be coming back"Mercy sakes alive, looks like we got us a convoy

Richard Greenhough ● 1477d

This is now a major story on the BBC news website. Very sad story.  It seems to be a Virgin thing. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-62809151https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001brnlThere are several cases and it is complex amd appears to be organised crime but not that hard to do.You and Yours will help prevent this happening to you! Basic rules - do not keep the phone and cards together. Make sure the 1 time authorisation code does not appear on yourphone easily.The police closed all the cases - but have now reopened them now they realised this is a serious and coordinated crime.

Susan Engel ● 1475d

Yep“ Vahl [expert on BBC site] says the most important tip is to never leave your phone and card together, "and certainly never keep your card in your phone case". If the thief does not have both, they are limited as to what they can do.Other than that, the best way to stop this particular thief and this particular method is to make sure they cannot read the verification code sent by the bank. This is done in your phone's settings:For iPhones:Go to SettingsScroll to MessagesScroll to NotificationsScroll to Show Previews where there are three choices: Always / When Unlocked / NeverSelect either When Unlocked or Never. Your messages will no longer flash up when your phone is lockedFor Android:Go to SettingsSelect Lock ScreenSelect NotificationsSelect Don't Show Notifications. Your messages will no longer flash up when your phone is locked”

Russell Pearson ● 1475d

And according to the BBC there’s a serial thief targeting the same gyms across London, and even spending the £1000s in the same shops, whilst grabbing a fast food meal while doing it. All on the same stolen card.

Russell Pearson ● 1475d

" All on the same stolen card. "Not on my reading, They've used exactly the same technique on a number of different occasions - stealing both the card and the phone.They then log onto the bank's website using their own device and enter the card number, which the website will recognise as coming from a new device. The website will then send a code to the stolen phone (which is already linked to the account) to verify the change which will be displayed with the phone turned off if that feature is enabled (with disabling explained in your previous message) which somehow effectively bypasses the PIN The hardest bit - given the tech has apparently been sorted out, seems to be identifying possible targets with sufficiently large bank balances.Having read about stolen chequebook gangs in the past another feature is the speed with which these people make use of the stolen items. These days with mobile phones possibly they work in pairs with one staying behind and notifying the thief once the victim notices the theft,michael adams 

Michael Adams ● 1475d

I meant the spree including fast food was on the same card, multiplied of course by various cards. Seems they must have a means of accessing the small ‘secure’ lockers for phones, the gym kit ones in Virgin are with you’re own padlock as I recall.

Russell Pearson ● 1475d

Your* even.

Russell Pearson ● 1475d

" the gym kit ones in Virgin are with your own padlock as I recall. "Even better I'd imagine. As a padlock small enough to fit on a locker probably wouldn't offere much resistance to even a small pair of bolt cutters and would require minimal strength. Which further supports the idea that they're working in pairs with one working as a lookout. michael adams

Michael Adams ● 1474d

You don't need bolt cutters to undo a small padlock.They will only keep an honest person out.

Keith Iddon ● 1474d

Another BBC news story - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-62809151

Richard Greenhough ● 1474d

Thanks Russell for that info. on my Android phone found it under Notification and Status bar.

Paul Jennings ● 1474d