Forum Topic

Brexitometer in Chiswick

Well done to the people I passed near Turnham Green Station yesterday with their 'Brexitometer'. However, it must be said that they have confirmed what we all know, that there is nobody left in Chiswick who is prepared to argue that leaving the EU has worked well for us. The Brexitometer needs to be taken to previously hard core leaver areas to show how much support is collapsing there as well.Can somebody who understands these things better explain to me why the Labour party simply doesn't put the issue to bed by offering a revote on the issue in their manifesto?

Felicity Caborn ● 1541d84 Comments

"there is nobody left in Chiswick who is prepared to argue that leaving the EU has worked well for us" Thats becasue people have moved on,its not on the radar,its not a daily headache ? "Can somebody who understands these things better explain to me why the Labour party simply doesn't put the issue to bed by offering a revote on the issue in their manifesto?" Becasue in percentage terms it would possibly loose you votes in a GE rather than a 2 way ref Ive moved on

Julian Pavey ● 1541d

Because they're afraid of alienating the red wall they need to recapture? Brexit is the bogey that no-one who's concerned about it dares mention - not the Labour Party, and not the Bank of England. The government of course is gung-ho about stirring up trouble in Northern Ireland in pursuance of one of its most important wars of distraction. Brexit is its raison d'être. Meanwhile the economy goes to hell in a handcart. The current account deficit in the first quarter of the year was an alarming 8.3% of GDP (the worst performance since records began in 1955). But Julian's moved on, so everything must be fine!

Robert Fish ● 1541d

In a way one might feel sorry for the Labour party on this issue. The 2016 referendum showed that their traditional heartland voter in the northern half of the UK voted for Brexit. In large numbers. Then the last election, very much as a get Brexit done election, the Labour northern vote collapsed. So from Labour HQ perspective they dare not mention Brexit as it looks super clear that Brexit is not going to win over or win back any voters. Regardless what individuals in Labour might think, this is not an issue they are going to campaign on - for now.

Alan Clark ● 1541d

Julian, your head in the sand may be justified if you are in no way exposed to rising prices or increased interest rates but the rest of us can't afford to move on.The FT this week described the latest trade numbers as 'the worst figure on record since quarterly balance of payments data was first published in 1955'.  It is unambiguous that Brexit is the reason. These numbers are worse than those involved in 'project fear' were telling us about six years ago.This is putting a lot of pressure on sterling on foreign currency markets and a weaker currency translates into higher prices particularly as more and more of what we consume is imported.The only remaining policy option for the government is likely to be higher interest rates.I think you are right however that Starmer has calculated that offering a second referendum or even return to EU membership would reduce his chances in a general election. There are a substantial proportion of swing voters for whom the idea of 'Get Brexit Done' was appealing and who even now are prepared to believe the lie that was sold to them. My view is that the Labour Party would benefit in the long term by being brutally honest with the electorate that leaving the EU has been a disaster and if they want their standard of living not to go into a spiral of decline the decision needs to be reversed as quickly as possible.

Francis Rowe ● 1541d

Remember that under Jeremy Corbyn the Labour Party was a Brexit supporting party - see Michael Foot's manifesto as well.  It is still the belief of the majority of 'the Left'.The truth is that almost every political party is split (48/52?) on the issue of Brexit/EU.So Mr Starmer's policy might just be the best - leave the pain of Brexit to show until it's impossible to ignore?We are stuck with - do you want to be in power for it's own sake which is Mr Johnson's policy, so tell people what they want to hear even though you know you'll never deliver itorprovide a clear path and vision that the electorate have demonstrated that they don't want in the belief that eventually you will persuade them?Tough choice!

Martin Weaver ● 1541d

Are we confident that the presumed Remainer-types who operated their contrived 'Brexitometer' hadn't calibrated it so that anti-Brexit readings were then bound to be read? :)

Bobbie Carnegie ● 1541d

Apologies Martin, but it was very much not the case that Labour party membership was or is, evenly divided in its view on Brexit. Even at the time of the Referendum close to 80% wanted to remain. I haven't seen a more recent poll but I would be surprised if that number wasn't closer to 90%Corbyn probably didn't really care either way about Brexit as it wasn't really a matter he spent too much time thinking about. Officially his party favoured Remain but he personally never campaigned to stay in.If Starmer's policy is just to wait for the pain of Brexit pain being impossible to ignore, we may be getting quite close to that point. I agree that he should be looking to lead not follow.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 1541d

Sometimes in politics as in life you have to have the courage to stick your head over the parapet and be true to yourself. It is becoming clearer day by day that Brexit is not delivering and was never going to, the Tories sold it on people's fears of immigration - and isn't their policy working well? As for all the nonsense about 'taking back control' - just look at the mess we're in - has anybody on the government side got any control over anything - especially their urges to try and keep their hands to themselves?

Vanessa Smith ● 1541d

Having a 'revote' on the issue is not on the cards. We have left. We would have to apply to rejoin. They might well tell us to go and boil our heads. If they let us rejoin it would mean agreeing to all the things we previously opted out of.We have made our bed ...

Susan Kelly ● 1541d

I'm in full agreement with you, Francis, about the need to return to the EU fold, and the importance of the Labour Party spelling it out to the electorate. But it's too soon. Unfortunately people will probably have to suffer a lot more economic pain before they come to recognise Brexit for the disaster that it is. In the meantime this utterly dishonest government will probably manage to sell the idea that the difficulties stem mostly from COVID and the war in Ukraine. Even when people realise the extent of the deception that's been foisted on them, I'm sure there'll still be resistance to the idea of being a supplicant to the EU, after it has been so maliciously, dishonestly and regularly demonised by the government and its red-top supporters.

Robert Fish ● 1541d

I'm not sure about that, Susan. An application for membership of the EEA could get us into the single market, and obviate the need for a raft of opt-outs. But that would involve freedom of movement, and I don't think we're yet ready for it.

Robert Fish ● 1541d

'nobody left in Chiswick is prepared to argue that ...blah, blah, blah'  My goodness that's a huge presumptuous statement, and WOW! another Adonis, still living in the past! At the time of the Referendum, we were promised a once in a lifetime vote the result of which would be carried out, those who supported Brexit were made to feel inferior (even Cameron had a view) so much so that they went more or less underground.  Nonetheless in Remain voting London 40% voted to 'Leave'. Of the many Leave voters I know, no one has for one instance regretted it. Why would we want people in Brussels making our laws?  Boris may be the bogey man but we can vote him out. Try voting out the EU elite! The current economic difficulties are down to many reasons of which Brexit unfinished business is just a small part.  Reversing Brexit (we keep voting till we get the result we want vote) will achieve nothing except division.  Other countries, including those in the EU are not doing well either. If we had another vote and the result was Rejoin the EU then 'Leave' voters would have very good grounds for demanding a third 'confirmation' vote.  If  the result was same as the first time, to Leave the EU, would that be acceptable?  Or would you keep demanding another vote?  It really comes down to whether you believe in democracy or not.

V Killick ● 1541d

👏👏👏

Janice Evans ● 1541d

It seems that no-one is happy. I have visited the same reasonably prosperous town in Italy ever year for the last forty years and listened to people's moans and groans but this year I was in for something of a surprise.People were saying to me " I bet your glad you have left the EU Adrian".The sentiment generally is folk are fed to the back teeth with the ever growing intrusive autocracy coming down from Brussels negatively affecting their daily lives and wallet.So there you have it, it seems no-one is happy.

Adrian Irving ● 1541d

The way things are at present, I'd rather have Brussels making my laws than Johnson.

Vivienne Cox ● 1541d

Democracy?So if the referendum had set out the type of exit, and that was what the majority voted for, and that exit was put in place, then you would have had democracy. Even I would be obliged to shut up.But what we had was presentation of an exit which was described as Canada plus, or Norway plus, or anything plus plus. This was a low risk, minimum change, retain export market to the EU, no impact in Northern Ireland pitch. Why would you not vote for that - especially if you saw Brussels as the root of things bad?But in a dismal magic trick that promised low impact, low risk exit was replaced by what we got. High (negative) impact and clearly risky. With little tangible benefit. Imagine if you voted for the Tories on some low tax campaign and when they won and got into power - they nationalised everything and doubled taxes? You might suggest that you were mislead. You might suggest ignoring their pre-election promises flew in face of democracy. You might even suggest that you were conned.This is at the heart of the reason why Brexit will not go away for years and years. Even if some individuals have reconciled themselves to having been misled and decided to just make the best of it.

Alan Clark ● 1541d

Brexit is in it's death throes. We have seen enough to know that the current variant is a disaster and seriously damaging UK. All the promises turned out to be lies. A closer alignment is inevitable, and eventually rejoining highly likely. In monthly polling over the last 6 years Leave has only led briefly a couple of times - UK Ref 2016 and the actual Leave date on 31/01/20. In all the other polls Remain/Rejoin has led the polls if only by 3% to 8%. A (53%) majority of voters in the 2019 GE voted for parties with a 2nd Ref in their manifesto. We are EM for West London and run stalls every month around West London for the European Movement.If interested in helping us get closer to our closest allies, please see @EMhkcf on twitter or facebook #BrexitBreaksBritain

Bruce Dickson ● 1540d

Since Brexit the popularity of the EU has risen considerably in Europe (even in UK) and is well over 50% and near 60/70% in many countries. Russia has invaded Ukraine mostly because they wanted to join EU and were worries aboput Ukraine's increasing affluence. The other EU countries voters have watched Brexit and now think UK is a joke and a failed state. Don't be fooled by individual conversations!

Bruce Dickson ● 1540d

Only 17% of voters now think Brexit is going well (53% think it's a disaster and that's increasing). The Leave brigade are a rapidly diminishing group. And with good reason as even you seem to accept. A £437 p.a. hit to every person in UK during this Cost of Leaving (sic) period is not a small amount. In truth the damage is much much worse than just the economic cost, but perhaps that discussion is for another day.

Bruce Dickson ● 1540d

It will be easier to Rejoin on some level than the continuously negotiated arrangement of being outside. We have to Renegotiate the whole trade deal in 2025 and every 5 years thereafter. There are 24 sitting boards overseeing the different trade arrangements that will be there for ever. The red tape has not disappeared but is costing us 10 times our old contribution...We have lost sovereignty, we have lost global influence, we have no say in trade regulations, the world laughs at us behind our backs, we threaten the very existence of the UK, and quite likely peace in Northern Ireland! And all for what? No one can find a single real brexit benefit even after asking Sun and Express readers. We have democratically implemented it and the sooner we put it to bed and closely align with the EU the better for everybody

Bruce Dickson ● 1540d

Dear Bobbie Please do come and vote at our next brexitometer stall. We welcome Leavers now as they are so thin on the ground! They used to come and spit and hurl abuse at us for 6 years, now they slink past and might shout at us from many yards away....By the way, can you provide one single brexit benefit? I don't include one environmentally unsound hoover that nobody wants to buy anyway

Bruce Dickson ● 1540d

Hi Felicity Like many I am frustrated with Labour's position on Brexit. However it is probably the most sensible choice given the buffoon politics we are currently living through.Eventually normal service will resume and a more adult mature politics will return to the UK. We are all looking forward to that day and I daresay the political parties will follow the voters soon after. The majority still think Brexit is a huge mistake (and for most of the last 6 years have done so) although they don't have the loud speaker to be heard at the moment. I think democracy had to see the implementation nof brexit but now it has been revealed in all it's glory as an emperor's new clothes .....

Bruce Dickson ● 1540d

There still are people as you say who still believe the old lines that were trotted out. One said too me "We are free now." I notice that new cars will have speed limiters fitted under a EU directive. We are accepting that, strange I thought. Ukraine want in to the EU sovereignty being mentioned, funny we left the EU to maintain our sovereignty

Nicholas Beard ● 1540d

Thus far nobody has actually even tried to make a case for the view that Brexit is working. The reasons we have to continue to endure it according to the people still haven't accepted we need to rethink are:1) No take-backsies2) It would have been worse if we'd have stayed in3) We can't change our minds because what if we change our minds back?4) It would be a bit embarrassing to ask to rejoinNothing is likely to change while this dysfunctional government with its totally useless leader lingers on in power. I understand that in theory that could continue until 2025 but an election would probably be more likely at the end of 2024 if the Tories want to cling on as long as possible. As they are unlikely to call an election they are certain to lose the only way they would not have a majority by that point is if the number of resignations of their MPs for sexual misdemeanors accelerates.If they are still here in 2024 the impact of Brexit on the economy will be even greater than they are now so maybe even the Tories will have rejoining the EU in their manifesto.

Felicity Caborn ● 1540d

"Don't be fooled by individual conversations!" Really?I for one think it important to talk to, listen to and learn from people.Conversely statistics and percentages are easily manipulated and should be tempted with much caution. 

Adrian Irving ● 1540d

You all know it will take time to know, problems are global much as you wish it was all down to Brexit.  Accept we are living during a pandemic and a war, what do you expect ?

Janice Evans ● 1540d

For once, Keir Starmer is talking sense on the Brexit issue - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62034754

Richard Greenhough ● 1540d

Oh dear. Back to name calling again.

T P Howell ● 1540d

HAI was just going to tell Bruce Dickson to give it upWe won't be thinking of returning for at least 8-10 years at best. It will need a fresh-looking parliament and that will certainly take many years to come around and then the question of rejoining is open to debate with no certainties

Julian Pavey ● 1540d

Felicity, I totally agree (as wil come as no surprise to many on this forum).I raised the same issue just on Friday evening with a shadow minster- i.e. why won't his man Starmer come out and tell it as it is:- Brexit is a disaster, and should be reversed?His answer was coherent. Starmer was the architect of the second referendum strategy, which failed, which is why he doesn't want to go near Brexit now.  (Personally I blame Jo Swinson - if she hadn't gone for the election we probably would have got to a second referendum, and this chaos and destruction avoided).Even more worrying, it seems that Johnson is planning a late summer snap election, to save his own skin from before he is removed by his own party.  And the view (remember that this is a labour shadow minister saying this) is that he will win, but with a greatly reduced majority. The narrative will be "give Johnson a chance to sort the economy:- he got Brexit done, and then had to deal with the pandemic and the war in Russia, so hasn't had a chance to deal with the economy".  It seems from previous posts that some of the hard of thinking may be persuaded by this.I said that I thought that Johnson would be better off trying to last the Parliamentary term, in the hope that the economy starts picking up by 2024/2025. But apparently no chance- the general view seems to be that this is going to be a deep, long (10 years) recession: amd far harder in the UK as we gradually decline post Brexit. I left the dinner feeling very depressed.

T P Howell ● 1540d

Yes ~ He must have read or has been informed what I asked months ago on social media when I petitioned Labour to 'wrest Brexit from the Tories and make Brexit work'.

Bobbie Carnegie ● 1540d

We are in Greece, talking with our European friends, Australians, US and local Greeks every issue the UK is facing is exactly the same as every country people we must understand post covid, supply chain issues is global, cost of living is rising and the war by Russia is affecting us all. We must stop thinking like island folk everything we are experiencing in the UK is universal. It is fascinating & so interesting talking with people from around the world we are all experiencing the same thing.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1540d

Yes, and it's awful that we have separated ourselves from those European friends when, as well as discussing the problems we all face, we could work together to solve them instead of carping from the sidelines about Brussels and trying to outdo them.

Vivienne Cox ● 1540d

Isn't 'carping from the sidelines about Brussels and trying to outdo them' is what we did when we were in ?Until we modernise our political system and look forward instead of back to some non existent halcyon era ,that we won the war etc then the EU is well rid of us.

Ben Gemmingen ● 1540d

YepI mean,inflation in the eurozone was at a record 5.8% in march and then hit a record 8.6% a few days ago and everyone has varied views about what the ECB should be doing. They are just about to raise intertest rates,the start of many. Kind of rings a bell with us and over the pond dont you think.Perhaps we should be in with them and have the same issue coming down the pipeline. You could say we might come out of it a bit quicker than them because we reacted rather than reading tea leaves and holding out

Julian Pavey ● 1540d

We just need to get on with our lives that’s been the summary of talking with so many different nationalities, there are exactly the same divisions in every country. Look forward and be kind…….

Jayne Thorburn ● 1540d

Only cowards have “moved on”.

Steve Taylor ● 1539d

Would be very interested to hear if the Labour Shadow Minister articulated his reasons for believing Johnson had any chance of winning an election.As I see it, even if his performance does recover, he has the problem that tactical voting will give a truer reflection of his support being in the 30-40% range. In the last election he won a big majority by being at the top of that range and people were disinclined to vote Liberal Democrat because they thought that would result in a Jeremy Corbyn-led coalition.Whatever people might think of Starmer's personality, he will not force swing voters from the centre right to vote Tory despite their dislike of Johnson. This surely means that the next election will end with a parliament more accurately reflecting the split of the country between the Conservatives and the more progressive parties for which around 60% of the population will vote.It was only a very unusual set of circumstances that allowed the greased piglet to get his current majority and these won't be replicated. I can't think of a scenario which will enable him to do it again.

Francis Rowe ● 1539d

Francis, I hope you are right.I learnt that the first past the post system is intended to make it harder for minority extremist parties to get representation in Parliament. However, in the last few years we have seen that you can get an overwhelming majority of 80+ seats with about 32% of the vote, if the rest of the votes are sufficiently fragmented.So tactical voting must be the way to go.There is also an argument that the compromses forced on coalitions makes for better government.

T P Howell ● 1539d

First past the post might well discourage minority extremist parties from gaining parliamentary representation. It therefore encourages minority extremist groups from gaining pivotal power within major parties. We have seen two of these in recent years - Momentum within Labour and the anti-EU group in Conservative. Both have been negative and damaging, for their party and the country. So I'm not really seeing the FPTP benefit here.

Alan Clark ● 1539d

Of course individual conversations are important (e.g. that's why we run the stalls!), however they don't reflect popular opinion accurately as you surely know. Polling can be manipulated (and are by e.g. Express and Mail, even within the analysis of outcomes in their papers). However, mostly Polling is run professionally (their reputations are vital to their business model) and when repeated and continuously give a clear % , are then very dependable. Hence virtually all elections outcomes are predicted within 2.50%......

Bruce Dickson ● 1539d

Close Alignment is the way to make the most of the Brexit Disaster. That may well end with the end point as most Remainers would have accepted that in 2017. Now, I'm not so sure and Rejoin is likely to follow within 10 years

Bruce Dickson ● 1539d

Time? Remember when we were promised Unicorns, Sunlit Uplands, Free Trade, Great trade deals, Taking back Control, Sovereignty - Nix to all that! Name one single benefit of Brexit?

Bruce Dickson ● 1539d

PR is the way to go. Conservatives have never had more than 50% of the vote in my 72 year memory. Progressives nearly always have but without the power to reflect that. when you add in the right wing media it's no surprise UK is going down the toilet

Bruce Dickson ● 1539d

Tactical voting such as we saw "on an industrial scale" (as per Sajid David) was the result of a "dishonest" pact, according to Suella Braverman. As Attorney General in Johnson's government, she should be well qualified to spot dishonesty!

Robert Fish ● 1539d

The thing you don't seem to realise is that the majority of the UK are pro EU and have been for most of the last6 years.We are also very steadfast in our stand unlike the (just) 175 who are left still thinking that brexit is working....#Brexithasfailed

Bruce Dickson ● 1539d

No Way. We need to stop looking inwards and rejoin the world out there. Brexit is a shambles and the worst act of self harm UK has done in 70 years

Bruce Dickson ● 1539d

Inflation has been worse here all the time. We are prerdicted to be the 2nd worst economy in the G20 next year (brexit related and a crap UKGov).Guess which country will be worse than us?

Bruce Dickson ● 1539d

Emily Thornberry was justifying the policy by saying that the EU would require us to join Schengen and the Euro. Does anybody have any insight into whether this is true? I don't really why they would insist on either of these as a requirement. The Irish probably wouldn't be that keen on joining Schengen which would be forced on them if the UK was in. The benefit of the UK being in the Euro to the EU is not that critical although if our currency falls further we might be banging on the door to join to become a hard currency economy.

Francis Rowe ● 1539d

"We need to stop looking inwards and rejoin the world out there. Brexit is a shambles and the worst act of self harm UK has done in 70 years"Totally agree!

Steve Taylor ● 1539d

Russia?

Anne England ● 1539d

Wake me up when we have one.

Russell Pearson ● 1538d

Actually, the Russian rouble has bounced back. Up from $00.07c to $00.19c in the last month (dropped back a bit this week).Highest it's been in about 8 years. UK press silent about this, but it seems that economic sanctions are less successful than we had hoped.

T P Howell ● 1538d

Well, who would have thought how illuminating it is to read here the thoughts of Remainers or should I say Rejoiners? I must say I never expected these particular opinions, though I often wondered the reasons they thought they way they did. I did believe they would have a couple of well grounded reasons, but no, just lots of woolly thinking and presumptions opinions.  I recommend reading 'The Great European Rip-Off by David Craig and Matthew Elliott.  Don't worry, it's far from boring and very easy to read. Sorry I really didn't mean that to sound patronising, it's just that political books are frequently incredibly tedious.

V Killick ● 1537d

Eh? You feeling OK?

Basil Finnis ● 1537d

Deeply disliking the institutes and structures of the EU is very different from the same view of the economic powerhouse that is the customs union and the single market. Worse is simplistic criticism of these institutes and structures with no tangible alternative on offer. The pro-Brexit promise of replacing the single market with immediate and multiple global trade deals was as empty as their promise of ‘an even better deal’ with the EU. Without substance. Proven lies.So, crap on the EU institutes all you like. You are out. In the not promised but widely predicted wilderness. Enjoy

Alan Clark ● 1537d

Well said Alan.I'm no fan of some of the things the EU are doing but economically, to leave the hub of economic power was ludicrous.Of course the Tory Taliban, the ERG will never be convinced but the public are starting to wake up.

Basil Finnis ● 1536d

It's Democracy  you fools

James Dow ● 1536d

James, as presumably I am one of the people who you regard as a fool, could you explain to me how in a democracy, the opinion of a significant majority of people in the country that Brexit is not working is not being considered by the government?

Francis Rowe ● 1536d

How do you know its not working?

James Dow ● 1536d

Don’t you pay any attention to news or current affairs, James?  Brexit is causing massive problems on many fronts.  The burden of proof is now on you leavers to demonstrate some evidence of meaningful benefits. Meanwhile check this out, it might bring you up to date.https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/regular-features/the-davis-downside-dossier/

Alastair Banton ● 1536d

Give it a chance🤞

James Dow ● 1536d

Give it a chance🤞

James Dow ● 1536d

‘Give it a chance and cross your fingers’?Six years after the referendum and as the damage piles up this is the best you can offer?Dreadful.

Alastair Banton ● 1536d

What have you got to offer, nothing but bitter indignation.

James Dow ● 1536d

I mean even Rees-Mogg gets it.  Remember in April when he announced that for the fourth time post-Brexit checks on food imports from the E.U. would not be imposed because to put them in place would cost us £1bn a year and be ‘a massive act of self harm’.  Yeah, but let’s just give it a chance, wait and see.

Alastair Banton ● 1536d

No James, It’s not about ‘bitter indignation’ it’s about hard facts and wanting the best for the U.K.  Please look again at this list and tell me why you aren’t concerned and give us something more than vain hope if you can.https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/regular-features/the-davis-downside-dossier/

Alastair Banton ● 1536d

Like everything in life. These things take time.

James Dow ● 1536d

Surely no person has to justify why they voted for somethingYou can be as thick as a plank of wood, not know who Boris johnson is but your vote counts as much as anyone else's and you are not accountable for why you voted and what way you voted. It is gvmt that is accountable and your voice is at the ballot box.

Julian Pavey ● 1536d

Problems are Global, looks like other Countries are blaming their Governments, wonder what happen to common sense when we have a pandemic and a war, just an excuse to keep on about Brexit.

Janice Evans ● 1536d

Julian, I am well aware that stupid people are as entitled to vote and have their vote counted as anybody else and unlike someone I could name on this forum (but won’t) I think this is fine.  But that is not at issue here.  For instance, you and I, on a separate thread, simultaneously asked Claire to explain her views on who should not be a future Conservative leader.  I assume that, like me, you thought an answer to this question would make for a more interesting discussion.  I avoid accusing other posters of being boring, but imho simply expressed views without explanation or thought are not the best use of this forum.  I imagine you might agree.  It’s not about justifying a vote it’s about engaging with other posters in a thoughtful way.

Alastair Banton ● 1536d

The Forum is not a political platform, a reason for not wanting someoneas nex P.M is a personal choice surely.

Janice Evans ● 1536d

And Corbyn was not liked for many reasons yet everyone puts it down to ante-semitism.

Janice Evans ● 1536d

Of course it’s a personal choice, Janice.  I’m not disputing that.  But this is a discussion forum and a raw opinion without an explanation provides nothing to discuss and is therefore of limited interest.  Who becomes the next Tory leader is a matter of interest to me and so I want to hear thought-out opinions, not just ‘I like her/I don’t like him’.  I hope to read more than someone’s allegiance.

Alastair Banton ● 1536d

Agreed, Alastair - no-one is asking anybody to justify their vote. However, when people express a preference for a candidate it's always interesting to know why. I'm guessing that the reasons for Claire's preference are dogs and cats!

Robert Fish ● 1536d

Have not decided on a preference they would have to be pro Brexit whichI think you already knew.

Janice Evans ● 1536d

Wallace is Pro Brexit I know before you tell me.

Janice Evans ● 1536d

After the Democratic vote,I would have thought all decent minded citizens Would be pro Brexit.?

James Dow ● 1536d

That's daft - that's like saying after a Tory government being elected we should all be Tories. I'd like to think I'm 'decent minded', but to be honest the more I see and hear about the realities of Brexit the more I am convinced that remaining in the EU was the right thing to do, and I'm proud to say that I voted to remain.

Vanessa Smith ● 1536d

O dear! I meant in the interest of the Country.

James Dow ● 1536d

In the interest of the country it is critical that people who bought into the empty promises of Brexit take a moment to re-consider the true tangible benefits of Brexit. And upon examination if these claimed benefits prove to be worse than less than promised but also carry many disadvantages then a very irresponsible stance is to continue to blindly accept the Brexit we ended up with. And central to the very idea of democracy is this ability to reconsider and not blindly accept a current state of things. If there really is a set of tangible benefits that will improve the wealth and wellbeing of the UK then please let us know. They are very well hidden or very, very marginal. Hence the real need to reconsider if the Brexit we have is best serving the UK and all the people here. And maybe just as we see Johnson’s Brexit based government change we can have a grown up assessment. You know, 20% reduction in exports to the EU, helpful or not?

Alan Clark ● 1536d

AC > "In the interest of the country..."... the Summer Recess could be delayed so that the Tory party leadership election may be completed and a new PM put in place.After all, there are important issues (cost of living, NHS backlog, productivity, etc) that really need serious attention. That cannot be done effectively with a lame duck, lying lawbreaker squatting in Downing Street following his non-resignation.I won't hold my breath.

John Whitworth ● 1536d

Well on that note I agree but it has to be taken in context to the posting. Given James' response, it is a given that you may ask the question.

Julian Pavey ● 1536d

Blooming softwareThat was in reply to Alastair

Julian Pavey ● 1536d