Forum Topic

19 Oct 23

To be fair this doesn’t directly and immediately impact W4. But it is of interest and might just affect us all. 16 months from now might see Scotland vote for separation from the rest of the UK. One imagines it will be a fraught, deceitful and emotional period of campaigning.But we are familiar with that.

Alan Clark ● 1546d24 Comments

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Question_of_Europe

Russell Pearson ● 1546d

Moving the four Trident Submarines from those deep lochs might be the top issue in  negotiations!

Jim Lawes ● 1546d

...there will be a big queue.

Will Watson ● 1546d

Agreed.  And I might even be in it!

Alastair Banton ● 1545d

Passports indeed. Will Scots and others be required to show their Passports at the English border (Gretna Green(!) or Berwick).There are so many fishing villages and Ports in Scotland that securing their borders could be a nightmare.One is reminded of the Russian trawlers doing trade with fishermen at Ullapool... landing to buy white goods in the local shops to take back to Russia... and others to take the road South and disappear in the UK.Leaky borders to say the least. There are 3500 Ports in the UK..and some 500 airfields.. we need to be careful.

Jim Lawes ● 1545d

I would be surprised if the total number of ports and entry points in England and Scotland changes should Scotland decide for independence.And I'm very unclear as why you think south of the Scotland / England border would be called the UK.

Alan Clark ● 1545d

It's unlikely to happen, given the UK Government's refusal of powers under Section 30. The "once in a generation" vote was lost 8 years ago & 8 years doesn't constitute a generation.There would obviously have to be a hard border put in place between Scotland and the UK (which it would be, as it would still comprise England, Wales & Northern Ireland) if Scotland, as expected, in the event of secession from the UK applied to join the EU (not that this is a likely outcome of independence)I'm confused as to why you think it wouldn't be called the UK?

Mark Warburton ● 1545d

Well according to wikipedia, the term 'United Kingdom' came into being in 1801 following the Act of Union between the Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.So if N Ireland left first, presumably it would revert to the previous country name of 'Kingdom of Great Britain'.  If Scotland left first, then maybe the United Kingdom of England and N Ireland.I can see the Welsh getting annoyed about that but then they are just a principality ;) so maybe the United Kingdom of England, Wales and N Ireland until one or other or both of Wales and N Ireland leave too.

Michael Robinson ● 1545d

For shorthand, we could maybe call it the "United Kingdom" that would probably work...

Mark Warburton ● 1545d

Well if N Ireland and/or Scotland decide they no longer want to be United then by definition, it didn't work.

Michael Robinson ● 1545d

Yes, but either of those options is way down the line, so I think that "UK" sums it up nicely.Scotland doesn't have a mandate/legal basis for another referendum & WJK knows it.N Ireland are even further away from a referendum.It's a lot of noise and the usual separatist guff from the SNP, that they know is economically & politically implausible, but sounds good to their voter base.

Mark Warburton ● 1545d

Sure, the legal basis for a Scottish referendum is dodgy.I think a N Ireland referendum is inevitable but I think the government will wait until it looks like there is a significant majority in favour of a United Ireland rather than it being in the 50s%.

Michael Robinson ● 1545d

Do I remember a famous quotation correctly (source long forgotten) which said "for God's sake go!.

John Davies ● 1545d

I attended the impressive University of Glasgow last week for one of their many graduation ceremonies ....as a proud observer.The Chancellor, Dame Katherine Grainger, was eloquent in her praise of the Graduates and past alumni. The word "Scotland" was not mentioned..nor indeed the "United Kingdom".The accompanying brochure was the same... just the words "the University of Glasgow".Perhaps it's just the Tartan Army that needs to be quelled.

Jim Lawes ● 1545d

A basic question. What currency would they use?

Nicholas Beard ● 1545d

I hope you enjoyed Glasgow and the beautiful building at the centre of the university- plus the view over Kelvingrove to the art museum. Truly splendid and worthy of the fourth oldest university in the UK. In fact, after Oxford and Cambridge the next four universities were Scottish. St Andews, Glasgow, Aberdeen and Edinburgh. Some three centuries later that little southern town called Manchester was the next. Aah, how gratifying it is to be ahead. And how pathetic it is to suggest that a very educated country has no right of self determination.

Alan Clark ● 1544d

Scotland would, of course, be able to use any currency they liked, it's just that they will have no Lender of Last Resort whatever they use, so their economy will be pegged to someone else's & likely be uncompetitive.This is unless of course, on independence, Scotland sets up a Central Bank with LoLR powers. Which you would think is a given, unless you wanted to be a satellite state with no credit rating.It's reasonably academic anyway, as given the fervent dream of the SNP to leave the UK and join the EU, Scotland would be using the Euro as soon as they joined anyway. That is should they meet the economic accession criteria, which they currently don't, and should Spain & other countries with wannabe breakaway states, tolerate their joining, which they won't.But apart from all that...

Mark Warburton ● 1543d

Tell us about what happened when Slovakia and Czech Republic split into two countries. Tell us what they did for the lender of last resort.

Alan Clark ● 1543d

Did they do this in 2022? No? Not relevant then.The Slovakia and Czech Republic separation predates the Euro, so as with all Scots Nats, you present a fallacious comparison.Scotland has no central bank, no way of guaranteeing sovereign debt and runs its budget at deficit. None of that meets EU entry criteria.

Mark Warburton ● 1543d

Yes..Glasgow..a proud city..except for the fooball hooligans and religious zealots.From Gretna Green to Muggle Flucka... the St Andrews flag flies.Quite a Chinese presence amongst the students..didn't hear Russian spoken but both will have an interest in Independance matters I feel.

Jim Lawes ● 1543d

Surely the process of negotiating independence will agree what share Scotland will get of these national institutions (Bank of England, National Debt, Armed Forces...)It isn't as if England will keep everything and Scotland starts with nothing. It's a divorce, everything gets divided up.

Michael Robinson ● 1543d

It would.However, as the SNP has previously stated that they have no intention of taking any of the UK's debts, it follows that they keep none of the assets.As for the BoE, well the clue is in the name. It answers to the UK Government, not to Holyrood.Scotland would not come out well in any negotiations - there is the fallacious argument that they would keep all of the (shrinking) gas and oil revenues, so they don't need anything from Barnett or to use what would amount to rUK assets. If that indeed was the deal, Scotland would be bankrupt in short order. The financial models they presented in 2014 were fantasyland and it's not got better for them since.Much like the UK getting what the EU described as a punishment beating over Brexit, the Westminster Government has no motive to make secession from the Union anything other than phenomenally painful for Scotland.

Mark Warburton ● 1543d

Now that is a strange and unnecessarily defensive reply. I simply asked what happened with the Slovakian and Czech banking system. A very fair question. And one not determined by the euro being there or not. I utterly fail to see your argument. Stop bleating and try to offer information.

Alan Clark ● 1543d

So you voted against Brexit? You would have wanted the UK to remain in the EU?

Alan Clark ● 1543d