Forum Topic

LTNs

Sunday 15th just had a young lad from the Labour party on my door step. He tells me LTNs are being forced through by the Lib Dem County Council who are hoping that Labour will get the blame for it! So that is how it's going here in Oxford; Real Politik & skulduggery! recently received a leaflet from the CoHSAT 'Healthy Streets' activists (Lycra men) accusing those opposed to LTNs  of 'poll-rigging.' Challenged about that they said they had 8 pieces of evidence, but then refused to produce it.

Jane Kelly ● 1591d49 Comments

We have a Climate Emergency and also have tremendous air pollution which various UK Govt's have failed at deal with adequately.  Govt actually lobbied at the EU Parliament for the EU pollution level figures to be reduced so that UK's pollution figures did not look so bad.  UK Govt lost three (3) court cases brought against them because of illegal air pollution here and were told to hurry up and come up with a plan to deal with it. The previous Mayor of London Boris Johnson announced the introduction of the Congestion Charge snd promptly moved on from the job.It's happening not just all over the UK but the world.  Oxford has probably been ahead of London in making improvements.

Philippa Bond ● 1590d

Philippa - the Hounslow Overview and Scrutiny Panel (Call In Committee) were quite clear about their opinion of LBHs claim to be using air quality as a reason for permanently imposing its versions of an LTN on south Chiswick. They said in their report date 27th Sept September 2021 and I quote;"There was inadequate evidence on which to base a decision: in particular that the data provided was insufficient and not accurate, including in relation to air quality data, and the evidence did not support the decision."Similarly the independent air quality consultants (AECOM Ltd) employed by TFL said of their original plans for C9 and I quote;"The results of the air quality assessment suggest that the overall impact of the scheme is considered to have both beneficial and adverse effects in terms of air quality impacts but the majority of impacts are negligible." The continued use of "air quality" as the reason for imposing LTNs and cycleways on residents who overwhelmingly do not want them reveals just how weak the case of the vociferous cycle lobbyists is.The is still only one official air quality monitoring station in Chiswick. It is on Chiswick High Road i.e. no were near south Chiswick. Questioning of officers by Conservative Cllrs has revealed that LBH has installed 12 'diffusion tubes' at secret locations across Chiswick Riverside ward. Are they installed in the right places? Why have they been installed? What data have they recorded and when will it be published? Why were they not installed before the temporary schemes were made permanent?At the Hounslow Cabinet meeting at which the decision to override the decision of the Overview and Scrutiny Panel was made (without hearing any additional evidence or asking for any more research) two cabinet members made remarkably similar speeches relating to air quality. Both claimed that the Call In was targeting school streets. As one of two councillors who signed the call-in request I can state categorically that THE CALL IN SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED THE SCHOOL STREETS PROPOSALS. Both claimed that Conservative Councillors did not care about the lungs of school children. Neither mentioned that the LTN proposals they supported do absolutely nothing about the traffic passing Chiswick School, Cavendish School, the Hogarth Schools and two residential homes for the elderly on the A316. Arguably, blocking access to Hartington Road, Staveley Road (East) and Burlington Lane, can only have worsened the air quality all along the A316.

Sam Hearn ● 1589d

"Questioning of officers by Conservative Cllrs has revealed that LBH has installed 12 'diffusion tubes' at secret locations across Chiswick Riverside ward. Are they installed in the right places? Why have they been installed? What data have they recorded and when will it be published? Why were they not installed before the temporary schemes were made permanent?"Wasn't it you who made a very similar case on OneChiswick against the traffic monitoring in Grove Park?You know - right before OneChiswick drew up a list of all the locations and then the traffic monitoring equipment was vandalised?Which is the absolute last thing you would want anyone to do to the AQ equipment, right?

Ed Saper ● 1589d

Ed Saper - I do not know who is feeding you your "information" but you could not be more wrong. Good traffic movement data was always a key part of the devising of a sensible traffic management scheme for south Chiswick. Perhaps you should contact me directly for a long chat so you can avoid swallowing any more of these whoppers.It was my colleagues and I who four years ago invited the Deputy London Mayor for Transport to visit Chiswick and see the traffic problems caused by the closure of Hammersmith Bridge. With her and her officials we visited the A4/Sutton Court Road junction and the A316/Hartington Road junction. What I and my colleagues wanted were traffic solutions based on an objective analysis of detailed traffic data. What you and your "mates" cannot get your heads around is that evidence in support of the specific scheme devised by LBH is simply not there. Let me remind you that it is my colleagues and I who welcomed and indeed encouraged the monitoring of traffic movements. We also called for, and indeed expected, detailed traffic modelling to be done using the data obtained from the original traffic movement data. If this had been done we could have avoided the many irrational aspects of the original schemes imposed on south Chiswick.You will recall that it was only after we submitted our call-in request that LBH 'allowed' hundreds of residents living to the east of the A316 access to Staveley Road and that the 24/7 exclusions that were claimed to be "essential" were relaxed.We needed the air quality equipment up front before the temporary measures (now made permanent) were introduced. How else do you measure the base case position when you have already introduced the restrictive measures? LBH and its officers told us that Chiswick was not special and that we should not be demanding such things! Now we have 'diffusion tubes' - why?

Sam Hearn ● 1589d

Hi Sam,As you have been reminded many times, the AECOM modelling assumed no change in the overall traffic levels. Hence it is hardly surprising that no significant change in pollution levels was identified in the modelling.The best predictor of pollution is the number of motor vehicles travelling along a road. That can be confirmed directly by the pollution monitor on the High Road which showed after the opening of C9 the traffic levels fell and the excess pollution levels with it.As an overall reduction in through traffic has already been measured in Grove Park, it is likely excess pollution levels have dropped and the diffusions data should be able to confirm the current levels of pollution. I would hope that some of those diffusion tubes are located on roads that have not been affected by the traffic restrictions, providing a useful comparison even in the absence of prior data. Air quality is one of the prime reasons to reduce traffic: it has been independently  estimated that over 20 people a year die early due to pollution in Chiswick. Misrepresenting the strong argument for taking action does a disservice to your ex-constituents. I hope we see a more balanced approach with the new mix of councillors.

Tom Pike ● 1589d

after the opening of C9"C9 has never been open. What we have had is a series of botched "temporary" roadworks that intermittently function as a disjointed cycle path.As it happens the stretch by the air quality monitor has mostly remained opened in stark contrast to the rest of the route.Now we are told, unsurprisingly, there are further delays that will drag on into Summer. Very hard to believe this has improved air quality over the entire route.

Adrian Irving ● 1589d

Somebody please tell us what a diffusion tube is.

Paul Jennings ● 1589d

I'm sorry Sam if you thought I was suggesting you were encouraging a Onesie Treasure hunt to find these hidden AQ monitoring sites which you suggest might produce suspect data that is used to justify keeping the LTNs.When you say you welcome data collection:"Good traffic movement data was always a key part of the devising of a sensible traffic management scheme for south Chiswick."You've always been consistent, if a little nuanced:"We the local Chiswick Councillors call on Hounslow Council to call a halt to all traffic monitoring measure until after the lockdown measures have been removed and economic activity has returned to normal i.e. the Autumn."The nuance, of course, is the important distinction between gathering "good traffic movement data", and bad data, which is what those traffic monitoring sites were likely to produce, which could undermine your case to remove the LTNs.It fell to David Giles and the good people of OneChiswick to draw up a list of all these bad data sites but, before they could submit their case to the council, a skulk of foxes went out one night with knives and destroyed them.  Let's hope OneChiswick isn't unfairly maligned if it turns out they are putting together a list of the secret AQ sites at the exact same time a pandemonium of parakeets visits each with hammers!

Ed Saper ● 1589d

Sam, that was remarkably prescient of you to have a meeting to discuss the closure of Hammersmith Bridge 4 years ago given it closed 3 years ago.The rest of your post is just as riddled with inaccuracies. 

Michael Robinson ● 1589d

Sam,I know that you have been told this about the AECOM report multiple times.  It assumed no change in mode of transport.  It was an air quality report, not a report that forecasted changes in how people travelled.  I don't know if you have forgotten that, are deliberately misleading people yet again or it is in one ear and out the other.There is a saying that all political careers end in failure.I am very grateful to all of yours.

Michael Robinson ● 1589d

The pollution monitor on Chiswick High Road doesn't care what Sam Hearn thinks.

Michael Robinson ● 1589d

Popcorn duly grabbed......

Stewart Jones ● 1589d

You are of course correct that we need connected infrastructure to deliver the full benefits.

Tom Pike ● 1589d

A diffusion tube is a scientific device that passively samples the concentration of one or more gases in the air, commonly used to monitor average air pollution levels over a period ranging from days to about a month. Wikipedia

Maggie Dodge ● 1589d

Is this with reference to the naked bike ride Stewart 😂

Maggie Dodge ● 1589d

Tom,I am also right in saying it is not surprising that you chose to refer to data from the only one monitor in CHR.If readings were available for the eastern end they would paint a very different picture.Between Goldhawk Rd  and Chiswick Lane it has been quite awful. Firstly no left filter onto Chiswick Lane causing long polluting tailbacks, now what seem like a never ending reconstruction of the first dog's dinner that was laughingly lauded by some cyclists as an essential emergency mesure. When you take into account the pollution spewed out by the heavy machinery used, the large amount of construction material consumed and ripped out on top of the traffic connection there is no doubt in my mind air quality at the eastern end has not improved but deteriorated.Agreed, maybe in the long term things will improve but that remains to be seen.

Adrian Irving ● 1589d

Haha!!

Stewart Jones ● 1589d

No, nor does it care if we had extensive lockdowns in 2020 and 2021 which lowered traffic and hence pollution. We also know the cycle lane and construction has reduced capacity of central High Road for traffic and so lowered vehicle volumes, which also lower pollution more. It doesnt care where the traffic went, nor it seems do you.

Bill George ● 1589d

I think it's safe to say that when the President of Ford Europe is launching a "park the Car" campaign the world has moved on from the car zealot dinosaurs of Chiswick and Oxford, failed and failing businesses and out-of-touch politicians extant or retired who are resisting change. Stop your moaning and get on your bike because your resistance is futile. https://www.ford.co.uk/experience-ford/ford-blog/new-initiative-park-the-car‘Park the Car’ is a new initiative from Ford that launches today. It is probably the last thing many people would expect from an auto maker. However, driving responsibly is no longer just about safety. It’s also about caring for our environment and our health – and walking or cycling once a day, active travel, can bring about significant change.According to the World Health Organization, half of European car journeys are less than 5 km and – especially in cities – these are often the kind of trips that could easily be made by bike or on foot1.Walking or cycling instead of driving just once a day could reduce personal daily carbon footprints by up to 84 per cent2. This in turn could support an 8 per cent reduction in carbon emissions by cars – and help point towards a greener future for everyone3.The advent of the electrified vehicle will certainly help. But as Ford Executive Chair Bill Ford pointed out as long ago as 2011, “a traffic jam with no emissions is still a traffic jam”4. The average person spends up to 36 hours a year in urban gridlock and parking the car – when it comes to short urban trips – will go some way towards helping ease that congestion5.We know that for some people travelling by car, even for short distances, is an absolute necessity. But for many of us, myself included, it is a habit we must change. I am committed to doing exactly that and I hope that many of you will join me as I walk or cycle more in my daily life.It’s essential for our own wellbeing, as well as that of the planet. Most adults in Europe are overweight6 – and just 30 minutes of walking or cycling can help us live a healthier, longer life7

Paul Campbell ● 1589d

The suggestion that Sam Hearn's political career ended in failure is unjustified. To the best of my knowledge many of his former constituents believe he left a legacy in his ward to be proud of and he contested an unwinnable ward to help his party out. Like so often Michael tends to become spiteful when somebody he disagrees with makes a valid point.The independent analysis didn't assume any future shifts in transport modes because it is impossible to predict this with any certainty. Making journeys more inconvenient will discourage some of them being made but those that continue to be undertaken will be longer. The chances are that you will end up with fewer vehicle journeys but it is possible that vehicle miles will increase so you have more cars on the road at any one time and the net effect on traffic and pollution of LTNs would be difficult to measure. This seems to have been the conclusion of every independent expert that has looked at the matter.We are likely to see falls in traffic and pollution however but that will have a lot more to do with the cost of fuel and the general decline of the economy.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 1589d

I'm glad that you agree that motor vehicle traffic is the main cause of the pollution and the only way to reduce pollution from this source is to reduce the number of polluting vehicles.Its good news that Crossrail is opening next week.  It would be a shame spending £18B on a new rail link into  London if so many people persist in driving into London.

Michael Robinson ● 1589d

I'm happy to rephrase what I said as there is no doubt that Sam Hearn has done many worthy things during his time as councillor.  See the following article.https://chiswickcalendar.co.uk/the-frustration-of-being-continually-in-opposition-in-lb-hounslow/Interesting that he says "other councillors find it a lot easier to be negative".  I wonder who he could be referring to?However I am happy that Sam Hearn failed in his attempts to stop Cycleway 9 and failed in his attempts to stop the closure to through traffic in the street where I live.  He had no constructive input on these, just political opportunism.You are quite correct that the pollution analysis didn't assume any shifts in transport modes because of the difficultly predicting this.  Now please tell that to Sam Hearn.  He has repeatedly pointed to the report saying 'Ha! No significant change in pollution', he is told that the report doesn't assume any change to traffic, and a few months later he parrots the same line again.I don't know if he genuinely doesn't understand it, is forgetful or if he knows full well and is deliberately trying to mislead.

Michael Robinson ● 1589d

His points seem well-considered and you haven't really put forward any convincing arguments against them.You and others consistently make claims for the beneficial effects of these measures in terms of pollution and modal shift but there isn't really any solid evidence that this is happening or likely to happen in the future. The net effect may be to have transferred fumes and congestion somewhere else - nobody can say either way with any certainty.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 1589d

His points really aren't well considered.- he claims to have met the deputy mayor for transport to discuss Hammersmith Bridge closure a year before it closed. I'll put that down to poor memory.  I wonder what other of his claims are also a result of poor memory?- he has repeated yet again his claims about the pollution report despite being told numerous times that he is being misleading about the purpose of the report.  You realise this.  Sam either doesn't or is being deliberately duplicitous.- he claims "We also called for, and indeed expected, detailed traffic modelling". Perhaps he can provide evidence of this? Perhaps he can tell us what response he got from the transport department?  If Sam Hearn did ask for this, then I assume he got an explanation of what traffic modelling can and cannot do, and that it won't do what he thinks it will.I have had experience of Sam Hearn being told one thing by officers then saying something completely different for public consumption.As I said, I'm thankful that he failed when it came to the Cycleway and closure of my street.

Michael Robinson ● 1589d

I do agree we need to address vehicle pollution, most people do. I am glad you have not challenged my assertion that the current schemes merely displace traffic, something even Ed has agreed in another thread. Crossrail is a step forward, as would expanding the congestion charge. But then you have LBE offering commuter parking on our streets, Sainsburys offering out their car park for the same, and LBH building a massive multi storey in Brentford. So where is the coherent strategy?So you love the monitor on CHR as it tells you what you want to hear. What if you had one on A316, either by Chiswick School or by Hogarth roundabout. What do you think that would show?

Bill George ● 1589d

Here's the report (from Chiswickw4.com) of our meeting with Heidi Alexander about Hammersmith Bridge.  It was on 19th July 2019.  For some, the pandemic made two years fly by and many have forgotten the detail of what happened before it or when. Creating an argument about a date doesn't change the fact that cllrs from all three Hounslow Chiswick wards met Heidi Alexander about the damaging effects on Chiswick of the closure of Hammersmith Bridge. http://www.chiswickw4.com/default.asp?section=info&page=cafhammersmithbridge002.htm

Joanna Biddolph ● 1589d

Thank you to Cllr Biddolph for confirming another example of Sam Hearn”s faulty memory.Although I’d suggest July 2019 is closer to 3 years than the 2 years she has said have flown by.

Michael Robinson ● 1589d

"We are likely to see falls in traffic and pollution however but that will have a lot more to do with the cost of fuel and the general decline of the economy."100% correct. The cycle lanes and LTNS encourage only a few  to leave their cars at home. Car use is increasing and more and more youngsters are applying for Driving Tests. Cycle lanes are generally grossly underused. Car manufacturers are rapidly meeting the challenge of producing eco friendly cars and people are wanting them and queuing for them even at the current high prices. When EV prices drop, and it is accepted  that cars don't pollute, the cycle industry will fail. People want freedom and spontaneity to travel in comfort.     

Steve Taylor ● 1589d

There’s an NO2 monitor by Hogarth roundabout on the A4 - HS94 - installed about a year ago. It was announced and the local (Tory) councillors were involved, so it can’t be one of Sam’s secret ones. You should be able to get the data - not looked myself.

Ed Saper ● 1588d

I think a pollution monitor on the A316 should show that pollution has decreased since the early 2000s when traffic counts showed average daily traffic of 48,000 vehicles per day. In 2019, it was 25,000 (2020 was 19,000).When you refer to displaced traffic, do you mean the traffic displaced from the A316 to Grove Park because google maps was telling drivers they might be able to save 30 seconds?  The S Chiswick measures are just getting traffic back to where it should be in the first place.  No point building multi-lane urban motorways like the A4 and A316 if drivers refuse to use them because google says so.  May as well remove some of the lanes and given them over to greenery or trees.It would be cynical to think that people are only concerned about pollution when they can no longer take a short cut.

Michael Robinson ● 1588d

Michael, I was referring to the two years of the pandemic flying by - and that there was a year before it (which was the year in which we met Heidi Alexander):"For some, the pandemic made two years fly by and many have forgotten the detail of what happened before it or when." Clearly, my next sentence is relevant again: "Creating an argument about a date doesn't change the fact that cllrs from all three Hounslow Chiswick wards met Heidi Alexander about the damaging effects on Chiswick of the closure of Hammersmith Bridge."

Joanna Biddolph ● 1588d

The LTNs have caused pollution. Any idiot could have foreseen that if you narrow the carriageway on a major east-west route and then block off multiple side streets, the remaining traffic will be forced to crawl along the remaining routes.Steve Curran professed to be in support of this ludicrous, unwanted scheme but had no answer as to why Hounslow is one of the few councils not to sign up to the London Air Quality Network monitoring, stating that he couldn't be expected to remember every decision that he had made.

Charlotte Kasner ● 1588d

"It would be a shame spending £18B on a new rail link into  London if so many people persist in driving into London"Um, er, uh...doesn't this pretty much shoot in the foot the need for cycle lanes?If £18 billion was spent on a spiffy new rail line enticing riders, won't some of those riders be cyclists and therefore not be cycling as much? Won't the opening of Crossrail impact the overall balance? Side note: I love that we're just turning a blind eye to the significant delays and cost over runs generated, in part, by the atrocious inability of TfL to manage themselves.

David Lesniak ● 1588d

"I hope that many of you will join me as I walk or cycle more in my daily life"Best of luck walking, Paul. The pavements have become a death trap thanks to being littered with active travel e-bikes and e-scooters. Perhaps I should say inactive travel as they just lay smack in the middle of the pavement let alone on the raised yellow pavers meant to alert the visibly impaired. Then you will also have to dodge cyclists on the pavement coming from all directions sometimes in those cycle tractors known as cargo bikes. There have been numerous times I literally have no where to go when walking on the pavement because of illegal cycling. And those cyclists have no clue that pedestrians have the right of way.But as I said, best of luck.

David Lesniak ● 1588d

“those cycle tractors known as cargo bikes”They’re known as “Chiswick Tractors”.

Ed Saper ● 1588d

So Ford Executive Chair Bill Ford says "I hope that many of you will join me as I walk or cycle more in my daily life"Firstly I don't need such a patronising statement from Bill Ford to encourage me since I have been cycling since I was 4 years old and secondly, it is clear that Bill Ford has never tried to cycle on the badly designed, dangerous cycle tracks in Hounslow Borough so it is irresponsible to encourage people to use them.

Steve Taylor ● 1588d

When did Chiswick Tractors cease being Range Rovers and become cargo bikes ?

Richard Greenhough ● 1587d

"When did Chiswick Tractors cease being Range Rovers and become cargo bikes ?"

Ed Saper ● 1587d

"When did Chiswick Tractors cease being Range Rovers and become cargo bikes ?" (My reply didn't come through fully. )

You're thinking of Chelsea Tractors.  The Chiswick variety is quite different.

Ed Saper ● 1587d

Chelsea Tractors are beautiful and elegant. Chiswick Tractors seem to attract people with moronic looks.

Steve Taylor ● 1587d

Steve, your comment reminded me of the “bicycle face” syndrome that was invented to suppress cycling, particularly among women:https://garethrees.org/2012/01/10/shadwell/

Ed Saper ● 1587d

So, to be clear, the optics of Ed's visuals he chose to provide are thus:Gay woman who drives and has a dog: BAD.Straight guy who cycles and buys flowers: GOOD.I'll skip the part where they're both white. As the owner of a compay that focuses on womens' wellness, Ed would be best advised to take a breath before hitting submit. It's not much of a leap to ponder if the portrayed mysogyny and homophobia is intentional.

David Lesniak ● 1587d

If it's not intentional then it's neither misogyny nor homophobia. But I thought the use of Clare Balding's photograph was in rather bad taste. Couldn't he have found an image which didn't show an instantly-recognisable local person, and which by implication criticised her?

Robert Fish ● 1586d

What about the implied cynophobia ?

Richard Greenhough ● 1586d

Gosh, that's quite a reach David, even for you.   There was no actual criticism of either person — both were picked because they are well known Chiswick residents, they were photographed in Chiswick and each had the required vehicle to illustrate the point. I thought Claire Baldwin was quite a good choice because everyone likes her and she's a big champion of cycling as well.
It is quite possible for someone to own both a car and a bike and be supportive of clean air, active travel and measures to stop people getting injured or killed, even if that includes local traffic restrictions or sharing space with a cycle lane. I think your accusations of homophobia, misogyny and racism are completely cynical.  This from a man who said that Steve Curran deserved cancer ("karma" as you put it) because of his transport policies and regularly makes abusive threats against people and their families. I note the hypocrite can't resist bringing my business into this conversation, as he tries to do at every opportunity — yet he screams libel if anyone does the same to him.
p.s. Richard — I had to look up cynophobia!  He's just throwing anything he can at the wall in the hope that some of his sh*t sticks.  

Ed Saper ● 1586d

Actually, Robert, you'd be surprised how much is "not" or "never" implied. And that right there is part of the problem.Insinuation. Innuendo. Ignorance, etc.

David Lesniak ● 1586d

Not a reach at all, Ed. You presented the images. I took a perspective on your choices. Of course you then had to rebut and dig up another image to defend yourself when you could've just as easily included this one and/or your newfound persepective on Claire's cycling.I think you'll also find, if you were to read and comprehend, I didn't accuse you of anything. Yet you continue to jump to conclusions. It's your stock in trade. So excuse me for, perhaps, doing precisely what you like to do when presented with two images put out there for a compare and contrast. Nor did I say anyone deserved cancer. But you like to fill in the blanks in your mind so, please, don't let me stop you. Printing lies about someone is libel. I never did that when I question your comments based on what it is you do. Again, you seem never to comprehend the written word. I note, however, you've gotten a bit cautious when typing sh*t now. So that's interesting. As for my sh*t sticking, it drives you nuts that it does. How else to explain your reactions?Side note: eating healthy causes sticky sh*t.

David Lesniak ● 1586d

Jane Kelly (the OP) says in her initial post that she is in Oxford.  She also incorrectly refers to Cohsat as lycra louts.  As already stated low traffic neighbourhoods and a reallocation of roadspace and encouragement and support of healthier and change to less polluting ways of travel are happening not just in Hounslow or London but worldwide.https://cohsat.org.uk/

Philippa Bond ● 1586d

There’s a project going on in Oxford changing the arrangement of lanes on the Woodstock Rd.  Oxford already has a system of cycle lanes sharing pavements with pedestrians in official cycle lanes.  This seems to work well. Residents of some through side-roads between Woodstock and Banbury Roads are lobbying for  traffic-calming measures as they suspect that by carving up the main roads drivers will go off piste. No LTN satisfies everyone.

Lucy Chambers ● 1586d