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Ed - for someone I understand to be trained in the sciences you seem very loose with facts and appear to have drunk the Cllr Dunne kool aid (who did most last summer to spread the falsehoods you now state, while obfuscating the fact that it was actually the Council's cycle collision data that was falsified, presumably since she knew this to be the case).So unlike you, I went back and looked at the evidence, namely the "Council Meeting" you refer to, which was the Oversight Committee meeting on 13 July 2021. Let me explain. The original TfL press release (9 July) said the following: "Provisional data from the Metropolitan Police also suggests that it is now safer to cycle along Chiswick High Road than before the cycle lanes were introduced. In the 12 months before TfL introduced new temporary cycle lanes to Chiswick High Road, there were eight collisions involving a cyclist, while in the six months since TfL introduced the temporary scheme, there have been two such collisions." There is no mention of TfL referring to part of CHR.  So it strikes me that the original One Chiswick response was justified in pointing to a higher number of collisions (along the whole of CHR) that were in the Police data.  TfL then clarified at the Oversight meeting 13 July that it was actually referring only to the part of CHR where the segregated cycle lane was put in. (There was not to my knowledge any clarification of this beforehand, by TfL or LBH.) That's fine, but it is wrong to say One Chiswick falsified their data - they simply responded to TfL's press release.Second, at 2h55m when Cllr Biddolph speaks, she does not refer to any number of collisions, but says she has "different figures" for the "accident statistics".So, I think Ed, you owe not only Cllr Biddolph an apology who did not appear to "promote falsified data", but also OneChiswick, who appeared to have calculated their data in good faith as a response to TfL and LBH.  But moreover can we rely on the cycle collision data TfL and LBH provided?TfL claim there were two cycle collisions involving injury, along its length, in the first six months of the Cycleway's operation, and so do LBHounslow in their approval of C9 - it is in all the Cabinet Papers - you can look, as they are online. But if you look at the Police data at the time, there were at least 4 in this period (perhaps 5, but it looks like one was entered twice, so let's say 4).  So where is the difference? It comes in TfL not having ratified a cycling collision involving injury at the end of April and another in June.  So they simply didn't include them.  So to say that "in the six months since TfL introduced the temporary scheme, there have been two such collisions" is most definitely, factually false, since they have only measured at a maximum a 4 month (and a bit) period from the start of the cycleway in December 2020 - not 6 months. The TfL representative at the Oversight committee on 13 July confirmed this methodology. I hope Ed, you can see the implications of these facts. By claiming only 2 collisions in 6 months, TfL could claim a pro rata reduction from 6 in the prior 12 months.  Had it used the 4 (or 5) accidents shown in the 6 months by the Police data, it could not claim a pro rata reduction in its press release.So in conclusion, it appears that TfL has misrepresented the safety of C9 in its press release and Hanif Khan and the officers of LB Hounslow have misrepresented it in the papers provided to Cabinet for its approval.If that's not misconduct in office, I'm not sure what is?We look forward to reading your apologies.

Amanda Smith ● 1648d

MichaelThank you for your reply, which is very helpful in reaching the crux of this issue. However, for someone who states, "I'm not a member of the OneChiswick Facebook group", you seem very well informed of its content!If the "twitter account @onechiswick is a parody account" as you say, then knowing that fact, you have a responsibility to say so when you quote from it, since as a parody account it would seem inherently unreliable. You might want to point this out to  Mr Vine, too. Without doing so, you risk giving a misleading impression of OneChiswick and open yourself up to the accusation that this is deliberate deception on your part. If that is your intent, so be it.  If it is not, then you should stop doing so.You state of me that, "Despite your protestations that OneChiswick Facebook isn't anti-cycling".  I protesteth not! I am simply stating it's own website.  You state that "people posting there seems to be very anti-cycling". So they 'seem' to be anti-cycling? And how many people is that?  Is it the one or two posts that "seem" anti-cycling to you, that you choose to re-post? Or is it every post? Or are the majority of posts simply constructive, but of an argument you don't agree with?  If you are going to make statements as you do (casting OneChiswick as anti-cycling, not to mention worse in what you posted earlier), you should ensure you provide honest balance, or express them as your personal views, not as assertions of fact.And finally, to your comment earlier of Ms Auton, that "She seems to fit right in with all the other nutters and haters on OneChiswick."  Please can you provide evidence of what you mean by "all", "nutters" and "haters" in relation to OneChiswick?  Or is that just an unsubstantiated, unfounded assertion?Chiswick would be a better place if statements like that were replaced with considered debate.  So Michael, as the prima donna of Hounslow Cycling Campaign, what are your concerns about the fact that cycling collisions involving injury along the length of C9 on Chiswick High Road have increased by (I quote and haven't fact checked the TfL data that is quoted above) 175% since its introduction. I understand that collisions involving "serious injury" have increased even more.  And finally, Michael, is this what your friend Jeremy Vine publicises when he says that "children can move up and down my high street safely now that #C9 is built"?

Amanda Smith ● 1647d

Amanda, while I'm not a member of the OneChiswick FB group, others who have joined may not have answered truthfully when asked to confirm their opposition to bike lanes and restrictions on motor traffic.  Several people send me what gets posted there, from Ms Auton's support of Putin to various other anti-cycling hatred and abuse.I must have missed the BBC providing notices for programmes like The News Show and Have I Got News For You that they were parodies and not actually the real news.  As to the standard of comment on OneChiswick, there is really very little constructive there. It's a safe space for people to abuse cyclists with minimal moderation.  If you want to see evidence of that you just need to join yourself and take a look, you don't need to take my word for it.  I don't think you will have a problem withe the questions they ask before letting people join.You really shouldn't believe OneChiswick's claims of increase in casualties.As has been pointed out, they included collisions over a mile from Cycleway 9, they included collisions which were obviously duplicates, they hid the location of the collision in the material they provided to media to hide they were doing this.  Official police STATS19 collision data is released later the following year so you can look at that if you want to check the data.Anyway, OneChiswick Ltd is being dissolved so it will soon be no more having spent over £45k without getting a day in court.All that is left a Facebook group where the local cyclist haters can rant and provide some amusement  for others.

Michael Robinson ● 1646d

Amanda, first off, the stretch from Chiswick Lane to Goldhawk Road is being upgraded, and the cycle-lane offset and junction treatment are both proven ways to improve safety.On the remaining length of the C9 cycle lane it's possible to assess if there has been a significant change in safety to date by considering the proportion of injury collisions on the segregated stretch of C9 compared to the rest of the High Road. That takes some account of the change in numbers and experience of those cycling - as Michael says if there are more, inexperienced, cyclists, we would expect an increase in collisions that would not be down to the inherent safety of C9.We have validated data now up to the end of November 2021, so three weeks short of a year's data after C9 opened on 22/12/22. In the three years prior to C9 opening, there were 25 injury collisions involving cyclists on the High Road west of Chiswick Lane, 14 of them on the stretch from Heathfield Terrace to Chiswick Lane, or 56% on the current length of C9. Since C9 opened, there have been 10 injury collisions on the High Road west of Chiswick Lane, with 4 of them on the stretch of C9, or 40%. There are three more weeks of data until we can assess a first full year, but currently the relative rate of collision has dropped after C9 opened, if not by a statistically significant level compared to the prior three years. We would need at least two more years of data to make a definitive assessment at the current collision rate. However, with the imminent opening of the upgraded section and the extension to Hammersmith including shortly around the gyratory, we can expect a significant increase in usage. That will make the figures to date of limited relevance. However, using the validated figures to date there is no basis to claim that the current length of C9 on the High Road has caused more cyclist collisions. If anything, there has been a reduction.

Tom Pike ● 1646d

MichaelYou say, "Official validated Met data for 2021 isn't available". If that's the case, why did TfL and LBH use data from the Met for the period from the Cyclelane opening.  I have only used the same data as them. I have simply been honest in how I have described its use and the conclusions that can be drawn from it.You also say, "You also aren't considering the collision rate. A road with 15 casualties a year with an average of 2000 cyclists per day is safer than 10 casualties a year with an average of 1000 cyclists per day."  That is correct. However, what you don't point out is that the number of cyclists on Chiswick High Road has actually fallen in 2021 (since the cycleway opened) compared to prior counts in 2018, 2019 and 2020. I can provide the data from TfL and the DfT if you wish. So yes, this is important - cycle collisions are up even though the number of cyclist is down.You say, "Hounslow Cycling does provide detailed feedback about cycle lane designs...reference to LTN 1/20....all the detailed engineering detail that the likes of OneChiswick couldn't be bothered with"  You'll be aware then that C9 doesn't fully comply with LTN 1/20, a point which I believe has been made by OneChiswick, but not by Hounslow Cycling Campaign. And then you rant a bit, which I won't focus on. I would prefer to remain focused on the facts.  Collisions involving injury are up, even though cyclist numbers are down, on a cycleway that isn't fully compliant with design guidance. I think what you miss is not whether people have changed their views on cycle safety or not, but they do not like to be manipulated by a small group that ignores inconvenient truths and attacks anyone that dares question their view of the world.  And the fact that some of these people are elected representatives grates rather, too.  I think these arguments would go away if some people accepted the facts and didn't try to manipulate them.

Amanda Smith ● 1646d

Tom Please don't join this debate if your aim is simply to obfuscate it with irrelevant and inaccurate information, from which you make false conclusions with the supposed authority of a professor, but which actually fit only your narrative, and not the facts.What do injuries on the "non-segregated" stretch of C9 have to do with anything?  Please read the posts above - we are discussing cycling collisions involving injury on the segregated section of C9 from Heathfield Terrace to Goldhawk Road. You then go on to say "there were 25 injury collisions involving cyclists on the High Road west of Chiswick Lane". This is an utterly irrelevant statistic.  We are discussing the stretch of C9 from Heathfield Terrace to Goldhawk Road and the cycling collisions thereon, not the section west of Chiswick Lane.You then state that "currently the relative rate of collision has dropped after C9 opened". This is complete rubbish. I haven't looked at the November data, but I have looked up to October. At that point the same data source you use had the following number of cycling collisions involving injury for the section of Chiswick High Road from Heathfield Terrace to Goldhawk Road, that is the length of the segregated section of C9 on Chiswick High Road:2018: 62019: 52020: 72021(to 31 Oct): 9So Tom, for your information 9 is a bigger number than 5, 6 or 7. Unless the November data reports a mysterious -3 collisions, then you are talking absolute, utter rubbish.You also allude to cycling numbers making the collision data irrelevant - please see my reply to Michael Robinson in which I point out that cycle counts on Chiswick High Road decreased in 2021 compared to counts in 2018, 2019 and 2020, which makes this collision data even worse in the relative sense. If you don't believe me, I will supply the data once again.

Amanda Smith ● 1646d

Amanda, last summer there were only validated collision data for four months, so TfL/LBH can hardly be criticised for basing their assessment on the data they had at that point!As for the relative rates, yes it is entirely valid to look at the change in the proportion of accidents that occurred on the segregated length. The counts show that travel patterns shifted very significantly for both cyclists and drivers in the last couple of years, with fewer cyclists commuting and many more out during the day. It is reasonable to think this was associated with a higher proportion of less experienced cyclists and indeed there was an increase in reported injury collisions off the segregated segment. That should not be ignored in assessing whether C9 improved safety.There is no cherry picking in choosing May and June - the prior manual count data was for May and June! That should be the best comparison as there is clearly a seasonal component to the cycle counts. We're looking for a relative change so the fact that May or June have relatively higher counts compared to the rest of the year is irrelevant - we're comparing to previous May and June counts. On the most direct month-to-month comparison, cycling counts are up 17% compared to the average of the previous years. In comparison, motor-vehicle traffic counts are down by 20%, and that would have contributed to the improved air quality measured on the High Road .The automated counts of just the cycle lane cannot be used to compare to the manual counts of the whole roadway made in previous years. We have a direct comparison of manual and automated counts for June and July: a day-to-day comparison shows that the automated counts undercount by more than 20% on average for those two months. If you ignore this discrepancy, you will not be making an accurate assessment.

Tom Pike ● 1645d