Forum Topic

Ukraine

Everything  currently pales into insignificance compared to what isInfolding in Ukraine.

Sean Wales ● 1672d77 Comments

Unfolding

Sean Wales ● 1672d

Decidedly.  This does look like absolute power corrupting one man's mind at least.

Vivienne Cox ● 1672d

First build up a massive military presence along the borders of the nation targetted for attack under a completely bogus pretext.  Then unleash rockets and air strikes to degrade its defensive capabilities.  Once safe to do so, follow up with land invasion designed to head to the capital, topple the incumbent leader and install a puppet regime in his place.Where could he possibly have learned that strategy from?

Phil Andrews ● 1672d

Look no further than NATO and the warmongering West. He's had enough..

Michael Brown ● 1671d

Michael, countries join NATO to defend themselves from imperialist Russian aggression.

Richard Greenhough ● 1671d

Dont worry about Ukraine,we have our own wars on our roads in some place called grove park.😁

Julian Pavey ● 1671d

But is Putin pro-car or pro-cyclist ?

Richard Greenhough ● 1671d

In any case, according to Ben Wallace, our defence secretary, the Ukranians are winning.Reminds me of Comical Ali, who denied the toppling of Sadam Hussein, even when he could see it happening outside his window and, before my time, lord haw haw.

James Roy ● 1671d

At least he can find Ukraine on a map (I presume).At this time of heightened tension between two nuclear superpowers, aren't we lucky to have a have a Foreign Secretary who thinks the Baltics are on the Black Sea and a PM who needs to call an inquiry to find out whether he attended a drinks party at his own house?

Phil Andrews ● 1671d

I just had to check the UK Government's sanctions list.  Out of interest, I also checked to see if Putin's name is on the list.  It is not.Just more window dressing. This government appears to have no interest in taking any meaningful action against Putin and his acolytes.  The government has for years been making a lot of noise about "tough action" against dirty money in London, but it has taken no real action.  In fact, the noise has been a smoke screen for inaction.As a UK/US/European military response to the invasion is (rightly) out of the question, we should at least be mounting a meaningful economic response, to put maximum economic pressure on Russia, and in particular Putin and those who surround him. But we are not.Look at the almost wholesale shutting down of the Iranian economy, or Cuba.  Obviously Russia is in a different league - but a united response from the West could apply enourmous pressure, perhaps leading to Putin being deposed. And yes, there will be consequences regarding energy supplies to Western Europe. But I think that this is something we will have to take on the chin.  (And Norway, which is not even in the EU, is given priority to EU countries for gas supply – and not the UK – another consequence of Brexit). It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that this government is putting the Conservative party's funding interests above our national interests.

T P Howell ● 1671d

Let's see, who would we rather have as a head of government - Johnson or Putin ? Whatever faults Boris may have, he is unlikely to launch an invasion of a neighbouring country that was formerly a part of our political entity, so the Irish can sleep peacefully in their beds at night, unlike the poor benighted Ukrainians.

Richard Greenhough ● 1671d

So Michael Brown has sided with Putin.

Chris Blackwell ● 1671d

Oh dear, Putin a reptile, what next.

Janice Evans ● 1671d

Richard, your defence of the charlatan who leads our government by pointing out he's not as bad as the monster Putin is pathetic and risible.

Robert Fish ● 1671d

At the Russian Orthodox Church in Harvard Road..one wonders what the message of the week will be for parishioners!

Jim Lawes ● 1671d

Agreed.When has our choice ever been between Johnson and Putin?What sort of distorted logic is that?

T P Howell ● 1671d

I was just thinking the same thing.  It was a strange response to my comment, but if it helps Richard to sleep more easily I promise not to vote for Putin if his name is on the ballot paper next time around.

Phil Andrews ● 1671d

I think your conclusion is spot on. However another terrible piece of news RADIATION LEVELS AROUND CHERNOBYL INCREASING!!!!!

Nicholas Beard ● 1671d

Latest: Russia banned from this year's Eurovision Song Contest. Putin rethinking it all..

Michael Brown ● 1671d

That'll teach them

Brian Joseph Coyle ● 1671d

Ghengis Khan's empire ended, Alexander the Great's too.  The Roman Empire died, so did the Ottoman, so did the British Empire.  I think Putin needs to be told, very seriously, that the idea of a Russian Empire is in the past.  Maybe millions of ordinary Russians need to do this.

Vivienne Cox ● 1671d

Empires headed by nation states and maintained through military occupation and subjection enjoyed their heyday during the early 20th century, and effectively became extinct with the demise of the Soviet Union.  Today's model, headed by corporate interests and sustained through financial leverage and the most insidiously subtle propaganda, will prove far more difficult to overcome.

Phil Andrews ● 1671d

Zelensky is such a brave, courageous person Ukrainians must be super proud of him and their country. Putin on the other hand is a monster that has no place in the 21st century. Russians must be so ashamed, time their stood up to their mad dictator that is destroying Russia at home and internationally. Russians stand up and stop the maniac, you can do so much more than cower to the person you call a leader the world will isolate you all………unless you stop him, Ukraine so very proud of you all, what spirit the world is behind you,

Jayne Thorburn ● 1670d

At last Russia cut off from Swift about time,, we stand behind you Ukraine. Russia is a pariah in the world and will be for many decades, cut off, no future in the world whilst Putin is alive. 99.9% of Russian must be hanging their heads in shame. Ukraine has the respect of the world.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1669d

Indeed, heartbreaking to see this unfold.

Janice Evans ● 1669d

Withdrawing Swift will cut off many ordinary Russians from their monetised YouTube channels that brings to them from Western advertising very useful additional pocket money on top of their meagre wages. There are some fascinating English speaking Russian YouTubers who present an outlook that shows Russia and Russians far from being ignorant of freedoms we are privileged to enjoy in the West.

Bobbie Carnegie ● 1669d

Russian people need to protest peacefully in massive numbers in every Russian city that would have an impact and the police wouldn’t be able to do anything.  Putin has to be the most disrespected person in the world let alone Russia. If the people stood up to Putin then there might be a chance for peace. Whilst I feel for the ordinary Russian they need to do something to stop this madness. They will pay a very heavy price if not.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1669d

Is there no end to Putins madness, now he has ordered his nuclear force to be on high alert. NATO is about peace not war, is everyone around Putin as mad as him and clearly frightened of him? Please someone put an end to Putin by any means possible……..

Jayne Thorburn ● 1669d

Vladimir Putin says he is moving Russia's nuclear deterrent to "special alert" does that mean nuclear alert ?Quite frankly this man needs to be 'taken out' but suspect with his security detail this will be almost impossible. Could Putin's overt aggression lead to a third world war  ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 1669d

Putin is mad enough to start WW3, he absolutely needs to be taken out ASAP, nasty man, a bully let’s pray the military break ranks, surely they can not believe in this war…….Putin has to go!

Jayne Thorburn ● 1669d

"Empires headed by nation states and maintained through military occupation and subjection enjoyed their heyday during the early 20th century, and effectively became extinct with the demise of the Soviet Union."While some parts of the Russian empire gained a degree of independence with the end of the Soviet Union, many parts did not - hence the name "Russian Federation", which includes many regions that were conquered by Russia up to 1945 and could argue a case for independence.

Richard Greenhough ● 1669d

Perhaps one of his generals or a brave bodyguard will realise where this could lead to and either launch a putsch or ,in the latter's case ,just shoot him.

Ben Gemmingen ● 1669d

They would go down in history as a hero, amen to that.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1669d

He is Hitler with nuclear weapons.

Claire Moran ● 1669d

my thoughts too

Vivienne Cox ● 1669d

Estonia must be worried ..being next door to Russia.Fortunately people there are brave.In the far east of Estonia is a mainly Russian speaking town of Narva.Groups there have been flagwaving their support for Ukraine outside the Russian Consulate.Ticking the tiger's nose?Glad to see Finland banning Russian aircraft over their airspace too.As I said weeks ago...Putin needs a big punch on the nose.

Jim Lawes ● 1669d

Followed by an exploding bullet through his head, Jim.

Roger Talbot ● 1668d

And then his read chopped off.

Brian Joseph Coyle ● 1668d

Read?? Head of course.

Brian Joseph Coyle ● 1668d

Shall we just say he is a monster and need to be removed from power, whatever that takes. Exploding bullets in his head or chopping it off will not undo the dreadful things he has done or is doing.

Stewart Jones ● 1667d

Russia warns it will hit targets in Kyiv, when is the megalomaniac Vladimir Putin going to be stopped ? The man is out of control and the world is against him yet he carries on with his despotic murderous campaign against the Ukraine and its people, but if he achieves his objective with Ukraine which country is next on his agenda ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 1667d

https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1573845/pakistan-russia-new-world-order-gas-ukraine-war-putin

Loraine Pemberton ● 1667d

Beware Imran Khan indeed.He cheated at cricket, cheeted his two wives. Behind their backs...and now he's in bed with China... mountain motorways and warm water ports.

Jim Lawes ● 1667d

So Loraine, what would you suggest should be our policy towards countries that still are buying gas from the Russians?

Jeremy Parkinson ● 1667d

Putin is the most cruel man on earth!! Hope he faces his karma soon.

Anthony Tan ● 1666d

Presumably, even the most  committed and isolationist Brexit supporter will get behind Ukraine’s request to join the EU, although it must be something of a dilemma.

Stewart Jones ● 1665d

Wonder if, before Thursday, 'Lovely trade deals with Russia' featured on Rees-Mogg's list of Brexit benefits?

Vivienne Cox ● 1665d

He was probably thinking about Russian donations to his party.  Or enabling Russian friends like Lebvedev, who since being made a peer has neither spoken nor voted in the House of Lords.

Stewart Jones ● 1665d

If his troops continue to target nuclear reactors in Ukraine he will achieve his objective which according to the leader of Ukraine is obliteration of the country.  He will also take much of Russia and Europe with it. I wonder if he is like the kamikaze pilot who crashed his plane deliberately killing all on board because he was depressed?  But a death-wish doesn't square with his morbid fear of Covid. Perhaps he is just mad. An irrational madman with a nuclear weapon. I am about to book a holiday and order lots of champagne.  Party while you can :)

Claire Moran ● 1665d

Putin is a gangster - out and out. A dictator whose political philosophy is simply power and wealth, without ideology. The problem is that the West, and the UK is particular, has been his enabler for the last two decades- although we could see him for what he is.He has already succeeded by funding the UK's split from his hated EU, weakening both (which of coursewas theintention).  And now we have a Prime Minister whose entire position is based solely on Brexit- so is in debt bondage to his paymasters- hence the slow burn on sanctions, to allow his funders to remove their assets before the sanctions bite.  The excuse that lawyers prevent or delay sanctions is absolute baloney.

T P Howell ● 1664d

"He has already succeeded by funding the UK's split from his hated EU"He didn't buy my vote. Much of the reason Vote Leave achieved a majority of those voting in the UK was due to the EU's failure to comprehend the British viewpoint. Had they given David Cameron anything in his negotiations that would have enabled him to claim success, then it is probable the vote would have gone the other way. None of that was down to Putin.

Richard Greenhough ● 1664d

"... a majority of those voting in the UK was due to the EU's failure to comprehend the British viewpoint".That shows remarkable inside knowledge of how "the majority" of the 17.4m who voted in favour of Brexit were motivated. And completely at odds with the evidence that is available. The academic research (for example by Essex University) shows that the reasons why people voted for Brexit were very varied. It suggests that the main reason people voted for Brexit was because of the post 2008 crash recession, and the uneven recovery across the country (i.e. areas outside London and the South East being left behind). Many people were persuaded that this was the fault of the EU. Many others  (myself included) would blame this on the government's austerity policies, which damaged the UK's economy as a whole and for the first time in history since perhaps the Black Death resulted in a reduction in life expectancy.  It was unnecessary,  and economically unsuccessful.The Brexit campaign (which we now know was substantially funded by Russian money) was carefully targeted (via Cambridge  Analytica etc.) to tell the right lies to the right people - to play on predetermined prejudices (we all have them - for example I was targeted with lies about EU animal welfare laws).And of course the age old "go to" for political rabble rousing - blaming the government's own failures on "the foreigner" (or someone of another religion or ethnicity).Surely now everyone apart from the most evidence resistant can see that Brexit is bad for the geopolitical stability and peace of Europe, and therefore the World, as a whole.

T P Howell ● 1664d

"Surely now everyone apart from the most evidence resistant can see that Brexit is bad for the geopolitical stability and peace of Europe, and therefore the World, as a whole." Indeed, but unfortunately the evidence -resistant are still a surprisingly large band.

Robert Fish ● 1664d

Your selective quoting from my post carefully omits the point I was making - that if the EU had given David Cameron something he could claim as a victory in his negotiations, then enough floating voters would have been persuaded to support Remain to tip the vote the other way.

Richard Greenhough ● 1664d

"... selective quoting..."?Perhaps in future you should explain in your post which bits we are supposed to take seriously, and which bits you are expecting us to ignore (or better still, just leave out the bits you are not willing to stand by when challenged).And I note that you completely ignore my comments about Russian funding  and the industrial scale misinformation campaign pre Referendum. Cameron's deal with the EU was widely misreported by those who had an agenda to drive Brexit. If the apparent lack of "a victory" (which in itself seems a particularly crass criteria on which to judge negotiations) was your reason for throwing your toys out the pram (without considering the wider implications), perhaps you could explain what the EU should have "conceded" (another crass word in sensible negotiations) so that Cameron could have "clamed" a victory?And more importantly still, can you now see how your Brexit vote has contributed to the instability we are now all facing in Europe?Or do you think that the Russian invasion of Ukraine has nothing at all do do with Brexit?And if that is your position, how do you explain away Ukraine's current eagerness to join the EU?Odd how the closer you getbto the Russian border, the more enthusiastic people are about EU membership. I remember the same being the case about the UK and US military presence in West Germany,  the closer you got to the iron curtain that then ran down the middle of the country.

T P Howell ● 1664d

I did say about 2 years ago there would be another war and of course was sort of told off for mentioning such a thing, you cannot blame the war onBrexit, get real.  We never hated the EU as you often suggest, we wantedcontrol of where our money was being used, we don't hate Russia theyhave the misfortune of an unstable leader.

Janice Evans ● 1664d

"...do you think the Russian invasion of Ukraine has nothing at all do do with Brexit?"If you seriously think that Brexit was the reason that Putin has invaded the Ukraine, and that if the UK was still an EU member he would not have done so, then your grasp of the situation is tenuous, to say the least. "..how do you explain away Ukraine's current eagerness to join the EU?"As there is no way in the present circumstances that they are going to be able to join NATO, then that is their only way to demonstrate their commitment to western liberal democratic values. Whether if they were already EU members that would have deterred Putin is debatable - but certainly their interest in joining both the EU and NATO is among the reasons why Putin has unleashed his dogs of war there now.

Richard Greenhough ● 1664d

You are spot on Richard.

Janice Evans ● 1664d

An argument is not strengthen by misrepresenting the counter argument. Unfortunately, that approach is systematic of the weak thinking underlying the support for Brexit.1 I have never once suggested that people who voted in favour of Brexit hated the EU, let alone "frequently suggested".  However, you are obviously not enamoured of the EU.2 Nor have I suggested that Putin invaded Ukraine because of Brexit.I have however pointed out that Putin's strategy to weaken the EU, and in particular to isolate the UK, are part of a wider agenda which includes the invasion of Ukraine. Brexit has played into that agenda. And the danger is greater.  The old Baltic and other Eastern European states used to be "theirs", but are now "ours" (or at least would be, if we were still part of the EU), and all the more prosperous, liberal, and free (with guaranteed human rights) for it. The UK, and Brexit, was easy pickings for Putin as a step to undermine that. Which you must both take at least some personal responsibility for your naivety in enabling.

T P Howell ● 1664d

Actually it will go in our favour, sorry to disappoint.

Janice Evans ● 1664d

You were the one who used the phrase "hated EU". Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are members of our defensive military alliance, NATO, and all the more prosperous, liberal and free (with guaranteed human rights) for it. Brexit has not undermined NATO, not isolated the UK within that alliance.Two EU members who are not currently members of NATO - Sweden and Finland - are now considering joining it as a result of Putin's war in Ukraine. Clearly they do not consider EU membership sufficient protection from the nationalist imperialist in the Kremlin.

Richard Greenhough ● 1664d

Russia isn't at war with Finland or Sweden.Russia is at war with Ukraine.NATO allowing Ukraine to join it would in effect be a declaration of war by NATO on Russia.NATO allowing Finland or Sweden to join it would not be a declaration of war by NATO on Russia (though Putin and the Russian media might well portray it that way).FWIW I don't believe Brexit was responsible for the war we are currently seeing, it may have given Putin some additional reasons to believe that Europe wouldn't respond the way it has to this crisis. I imagine that Switzerland implementing sanctions wasn't in Putin's game plan and (I know it wouldn't happen) if Switzerland had joined the EU that would have influences Putin more than the UK leaving.

Andrew Jones ● 1664d

As far as I can see, the EU and the UK are in lockstep about Russia and neither seem permanently weakened by Brexit.

Claire Moran ● 1664d

Like Stewart Jones, Howell is anti-UK and pro-EU, hates Brexit with a passion to an irrational extent.  Both best ignored. Just don't read their daft posts. And Jones at least is a rabid extreme leftie.

Claire Moran ● 1664d

Cancel culture at it's best.So much for Western liberal pluralism (which, ultimately, is what it is all about).PS. I have never been "anti UK" - I have worked long and hard promoting the UK's economic interests international- for both UKTI and the Mayor of London - for the last two decades.  Understanding the benefits of EU membership is not being "anti-UK", and statements like that demonstrate a divisive mindset which lies at the heart of Brexitism.

T P Howell ● 1664d

I'd be interested to know the mental contortions by which you arrived at the conclusion that being opposed to Brexit implies being anti-UK. Probably because you equate criticism of the government with a lack of love of country. It's probably quite the reverse: the true patriot is someone who challenges policy decisions which threaten the future of the country and resists the siren call of fraudulent populists.

Robert Fish ● 1664d

What was the British viewpoint that the EU did not understand ? We were a huge force in the EU and had carved out a unique position without bring in the Euro. Please explain what they did not understand

Stewart Jones ● 1664d

You are a totally ridiculous contributor to this forum. You flare up at the most stupid things, dish out vile comments then go quiet for a bit. It’s the pattern everyone recognises. You have shared that you have a blood pressure condition. Perhaps you could consider that before you post.This week I am a rabid leftie. A few months ago you called ma a champagne guzzling, foie gras eating anti Semite. And now I am anti-UK on no evidence whatsoever.You should look to yourself.

Stewart Jones ● 1664d

For CM obviously

Stewart Jones ● 1664d

I criticise the government all the time, Robert but I am not ant the UK. On the contrary, I believe we are capable of making our own good decisions although all governments often need public pressure applying to get things right. We don't need an unelected wasteful pretty clueless overseas body of autocrat telling us how to live. I see Jones had posted multiple times below your post, probably frothing at the mouth with bile as usual. And as usual, I will not be reading his nonsense.

Claire Moran ● 1664d

US missile base expansion. NATO expansion. Puppet government installed in Ukraine by US in 2014. Who would have thought the bear would turn?!You fools!

Michael Brown ● 1664d

It’s not the bear that’s turned, it’s a few people driven by the ideology expressed by Alexander Dugin, who have positions of power.Whatever the provocation (real or imaginary) the response is one the whole world should deplore.What about you, Michael - do you think it’s justified (what Russia are undertaking in Ukraine)?

Andrew Jones ● 1664d

I can only say that, based on my understanding, I can see how it's come about, and those who have been posing threats to Russia for a long time are equally to blame.

Michael Brown ● 1663d

Warmongering west.....what c**p

david ward ● 1663d

It’s good news that the assets of some oligarchs have been frozen.

Stewart Jones ● 1658d

Yes. Now we can kill two birds with one stone.No need to spend hundreds of millions on a new Royal Yacht.

T P Howell ● 1658d

Michael, who exactly are those who have been posing threats to Russia, and what sorts of threats?

Brian Joseph Coyle ● 1658d