Forum Topic

Boris

Who should replace him ?

John Southey ● 1714d77 Comments

Is Carrie divorcing him then?

Stewart Jones ● 1714d

Could a Duke be given the role by HM?

Russell Pearson ● 1714d

Djokovic...

Adam Beamish ● 1714d

Very interesting question - the short answer is Ken Clarke. The only reason Johnson remains is that the Tories haven't worked out how they can possibly extricate themselves from the mess they have created.  Normally a potential leader would emerge who would 'unite the party' but the problem is that there are really two parties at the moment. Yes there have been divisions before but there is virtually no common ground between the One Nation Conservatives and the ERG/Anti-lockdown wing of the party. Johnson held the two sides together by telling both what they wanted to hear and they chose to believe him.I suspect that all of the potential candidates have worked out that when the price cap is raised on 1 April there will be an energy bill crisis which will dwarf the outrage seen over Downing Street party central. Much better to leave Johnson to deal with this and then take the resulting flak over the local election results. At this stage the Conservatives might even be on the point of losing most of their seats in Chiswick.Nobody wants to be the assassin on the basis that this is a role that never leads to the crown so a stalking horse challenge might be necessary to shake the people who actually want the job out of the tree.The short list is probably Javid, Sunak, Patel, Truss and Gove.Patel and Gove will probably be ruled out because they are too personally unappealing and MPs of their own party can't stand them.The membership seem to like Liz Truss for a reason that I can't begin to understand but she has alienated MPs from both wings of the party so she is unlikely to be picked by them.That leaves Javid and Sunak who had this stage would be my pick for the two that will lead vote among MPs - Javid will pitch to the relatively sane wing of the party whereas Sunak will be seen as sound on Brexit and will gain the headbanger vote whilst persuading a broader range of MPs to support due to him appearing to be not totally unbalanced. Sunak would definitely win the vote of members and then would become Prime Minister probably with Javid as his Chancellor.

Francis Rowe ● 1714d

Happy for him to stay and be a "dead man walking" right into a massive election loss.

Paul Scullion ● 1714d

What the government seems to be lacking is a figure like Sgt Wilson of "Dads Army" who can intervene at appropriate moments with an "Do you think that is wise, sir ?". Someone who might have picked up that having socials at 10 Downing Street during a pandemic was not a good idea. Willie Whitelaw, Peter Carrington and Douglas Hurd each partly filled that role for Margaret Thatcher, and maybe Philip Hammond for Theresa May, but now it seems to be lacking. As Mrs T famously said, "Every Prime Minister needs a Willie".

Richard Greenhough ● 1714d

Anyone standing in a bus queue.

Vanessa Smith ● 1714d

Patel? Now you're really scaring me.Not bright. And not nice.

T P Howell ● 1714d

He had a Dominic, let him go.

Russell Pearson ● 1713d

"He had a Dominic.."And if that doesn't demonstrate the decline in quality of our government in the past thirty-odd years, I don't know what does.

Richard Greenhough ● 1713d

Marcus Smith, unrivaled, a 22 year old made to measure for number 10.

Denis I. Fox ● 1713d

If only Rory Stewart was still around.

Chris Blackwell ● 1713d

Thank God he isn't.

Claire Moran ● 1713d

So depressing.  I couldn't vote for a party that included any of the above horrors.  But I couldn't vote for Labour either given its current composition.  None of them will get the country to where it needs to be.

Claire Moran ● 1713d

Bring David Cameron back. He's better than Boris.

Anthony Tan ● 1713d

"He's better than Boris."So was Theresa May. But the electorate reduced her majority (even though she was up against Old Jeremiah) and then gave Boris a much greater one. Go figure.

Richard Greenhough ● 1712d

My fantasy Tory leader would be Matthew Parris.  But now that the Tory party of old has become UKIP 2 (Nukip?) people like him would have no chance.

Alastair Banton ● 1712d

This will be an interesting leadership election (oh, do some still doubt that Johnson is on his way out?) The tories are now a clearly split party. The ERG / libertarian people have had the running for the last couple of years. But there is still a large 'one conservative' group - the moderates who are pro-business but also supportive of social infrastructure. These exist even after the Johnson purges. The question is less on the specific who will replace BJ, but what side of the party will take the reins. My tuppenny's worth is that the likely desire to keep the newly won northern seats might just move the party away from the current power group. After all, the ERG & Boris' people are not bothered about levelling up. They have dumped a dubious and costly Brexit on the country. They were people in Downing Street when the parties were held. Some of the current candidates being touted about may well re-cut their image in reaction to this.

Alan Clark ● 1712d

No accounting for the sense of people who vote conservative :-)

Andrew Jones ● 1712d

A gentleman called Willie wrote to The Times last month.."When Boris writes his memoirs I assume the book will be placed in the "Fiction" section of bookshops and Libraries".This Willie would be of no help.

Jim Lawes ● 1712d

'No accounting for the sense of people who vote conservative :-)'Ain't that the truth!

Vanessa Smith ● 1712d

Is there really any question which side of the party will win the leadership contest? While there may be a few One Nation Tories MPs who survived Johnson's culls who could get behind a reasonably palatable candidate, the membership remains avowedly pro-Brexit and significantly swivel-eyed.These are the people who gave us the clown in charge at the moment remember by a whacking majority. All a candidate needs to do to win is make promises they can't keep on Article 16 and they will get the job.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 1712d

Jeremy ~ the British electorate agreed and voted Boris and Tories into government despite already knowing of Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson's unreliable reputation. That was overlooked while many electorate lips were bitten and faces spited with noses cut off so long as the nation got its Brexit. Such a tragedy Labour didn't grasp Brexit. But how could it with Keir Starmer as opposition Brexit Secretary being so awkwardly pro-EU?

Bobbie Carnegie ● 1712d

'But how could it with Keir Starmer as opposition Brexit Secretary being so awkwardly pro-EU?'Brexit was founded on the appalling lies of Johnson and his swivel eyed loony faction and in no small way fed into the sickening racism that was stoked up all through - well, didn't that work well? Wonder who's sorry now? You are wrong, Labour DID grasp Brexit but people only hear what they want to, nothing 'awkward' about it or Keir Starmer.

Vanessa Smith ● 1712d

Vanessa ~ How true "people only hear what" :-)

Bobbie Carnegie ● 1711d

they want" Ha Ha

Bobbie Carnegie ● 1711d

Not sure what your point is Bobby but I think we need to distinguish between the electorate and the Tory party membership. The latter held Johnson as their darling for years after he carefully cultivated them recognising that they were the key to gaining the leadership not MPs. Now they may have turned against him personally but their nature has not changed - they remain quite reactionary and profoundly Euro-sceptic.The electorate has changed their views. Even by the time of the last election they were overall pro-Remain and the split of the votes reflects this. Johnson won because he was up against a candidate who was one of the few people in the country even more unelectable than him and not voting Conservative was effectively a vote for a Corbyn-led coalition with the Scottish Nationalists.The Conservative Party membership seem now to believe that Johnson was a mistake because of his personal flaws not that the policies he advanced were disastrous. They will choose a new leader that may be less incompetent but will have made commitments on Article 16 and the Northern Ireland Protocol which can't be kept to without bring this country into a very profound crisis.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 1711d

That is a much better & more accurate summary of recent events. And it's hard to disagree that the tories are now essentially a UKIP-lite party with the moderate members gone. So the days of one nation conservatives that were pro-business have been replaced by isolated nation, libertarian, small government, low reg free market kippers. As Brexit issues in one form or other will continue to be a thorn (and as the tories and tory press love to blame the EU for anything) these kippers in the party are likely to be in the majority for many years to come.

Alan Clark ● 1711d

Jeremy, my view was and still is that Conservatives got in becauseLabour had continually ignored their voters needs for many years and sadlywe still see this repeating itself.  Most who vote for Boris were ex Laboursupporters.

Janice Evans ● 1711d

Hard to see how they’re libertarian free market after passing all those anti freedom laws, and with more to come, and with vast amounts of public spending. But suppose that fits in with the warped mindset of those who want to do the equivalent of a March on Capitol Hill to negate a democratic vote (and who still won’t accept it).

Russell Pearson ● 1711d

I don't think I would go as far as to describe the Conservatives as UKIP-lite just yet although there has been a significant amount of entryism in associations across the country. In London, the more traditional type of Conservatism seems to prevail, and whatever you think of the Chiswick councillors' views on particular issues they clearly don't belong to the headbanger wing of the party. Yet, it is they who are likely to feel the earliest and hardest consequence of Johnson's ineptitude and self-regard. If the polls are at the same level in May as they are now we will have Labour councillors in Chiswick after the election.  The panicked measures to 'Save Big Dog' announced so far such as scrapping the TV licence seem likely to make things worse rather than better and, as has already been pointed out, the energy bill crisis is likely to make partygate seem relatively benign. The deluded view that picking a fight with the EU and the US over Article 16 will be popular seems to be gaining ground among the rump of Johnson supporters.The Conservative councillors that survive after the election will need to make some important choices. If their new leader continues on the dark path that Johnson has embarked them on then I think they will find it very hard to say that the party nationally reflects their views and certainly won't appeal to the vast majority of people in Chiswick. A new centre right party may well prove to be the only option for them.

Francis Rowe ● 1711d

So, most of the 13,966,454 who voted Conservative were ex Labour supporters?  Add those to the 10 million they kept, they were amazingly popular pre-election!

Vivienne Cox ● 1711d

The North were mostly Labour, obviously many also wanted Brexit.

Janice Evans ● 1711d

And also many did not want J.C

Janice Evans ● 1711d

The odd thing is how well Old Jeremiah did in 2017 when the alternative Prime Ministerial options on offer were him or Theresa May, who IMHO was far preferable as PM to Boris. While she had her failings, she was much more of an adult than either JC or BJ and did her best to manage the poisoned chalice she inherited from Cameron, until she was completely undermined by her own party and the shambolic opposition. It is difficult to understand how Old Jeremiah did so well in 2017 and so poorly in 2019, unless the voters had finally woken up to what he stood for. Anyway, the electorate decided it preferred Boris. Go figure.

Richard Greenhough ● 1710d

Janice, Labour haven't been in power for nearly 12 years. You're absolutely right in saying that their voters' needs have been ignored, just wrong in attributing that neglect to Labour. They were not only ignored, but also duped, by the Tories, who managed to persuade them that the EU was to blame for everything wrong in this country.

Robert Fish ● 1710d

Funny how Remoaners still like to claim that the electorate was duped. Their problem is that they cannot understand the viewpoint of the majority who voted in the referendum, and in their incomprehension, have to assume that there was some sleight of hand involved.

Richard Greenhough ● 1710d

So you're another of the dupes who think that the neglect of traditional labour voters was all the fault of the EU? I don't assume any sleight of hand. It was all quite open - misrepresentation of the EU promoted by the Mail, the Express, UKIP and a cynical, mendacious aspirant to the position of PM.

Robert Fish ● 1710d

You are obviously in denial.

Richard Greenhough ● 1710d

LOL! Look in the mirror.

Robert Fish ● 1710d

'Funny how Remoaners still like to claim that the electorate was duped. Their problem is that they cannot understand the viewpoint of the majority who voted in the referendum, and in their incomprehension, have to assume that there was some sleight of hand involved.'You are joking right? Sleight of hand? Downright lies and chicanery were the order of the day, as is being proved every day.

Vanessa Smith ● 1710d

"Downright lies and chicanery were the order of the day"That certainly describes the case made by Heath and Wilson in 1975.

Richard Greenhough ● 1710d

It was the neglected population who wanted the option to vote for Brexitbecause they wanted out.........and Richard is correct.

Janice Evans ● 1710d

Richard Greenhough" It is difficult to understand how Old Jeremiah did so well in 2017 and so poorly in 2019, unless the voters had finally woken up to what he stood for.""What he stood for"A nice "snide" remark from Richard there as usual.What Richard really means there of course, is that it was only after 2017 that all the "evidence" started emerging of Corbyn's raging ant-semitism, which not only made him unfit to lead the Party, but to even be a member.So that in the Spectator, Geoffrey Alderman an Orthodox Jewish historian specialising in 19th and 20th centuries Jewish community in Englandwrites as follows "The fact of the matter is that Corbyn has an impressive record of supporting Jewish communal initiatives."Eh ?" Indeed I could fill this entire article with a list of philo-Semitic EDMs that Corbyn has signed since he was first elected as Labour MP for Islington North in 1983. "Come again ?" So when Islington Council granted  the planning application, a Jewish-led and ultimately successful campaign was launched to have the decision reversed. I was part of that campaign. So was Jeremy Corbyn. Meanwhile, the then-leader of Islington Council (1982-92), whose decision to permit the destructionof the cemetery was eventually overturned, was none other than Margaret Hodge (though it is unclear whether she personally was in favour of the proposal)."Margaret Hodge ? Not Red Margaret ? Who at one point vied with Red Ted Knight and Red Ken as LooneyLeft hate figures in the "Standard". Who then met Tony Blair, took a sharp turn to the right, remembered she was Jewish, and has had her claws into Jeremy Corbyn ever since      he went on" I have deliberately omitted from this discussion any consideration of Corbyn’s attitude to Zionism and whether anti-Zionism is inherently anti-Semitic. All I will say here – as a proud Zionist – is that in my view context is, again, paramount.But the grounds for labelling him an anti-Semite simply do not exist.https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-jeremy-corbyn-really-anti-semitic-So there we have it. Starting in 2017 or thereabouts a smear campaign was launched against Jeremy Corbyn for no other reason that it had become apparent that his leftist policies were in fact far more popular with the electorate than many people felt comfortable with.michael adams

Michael Adams ● 1710d

So in a feeble attempt to take the focus off  Boris, Nadine Dorries tweets  that this will be “the last licence fee announcement”, hinting that the licence may be replaced by a different funding model in the future. (From 2027!)Does she really think that anyone will believe ANYTHING the Tories say when they are on their knees and the majority of them are STILL trying, quite pathetically, to defend Boris. It’s quite sickening!Notwithstanding that they are now reneging on Manifesto PLEDGES and blaming Covid.

Steve Taylor ● 1710d

Richard Greenhough explained"Downright lies and chicanery were the order of the day""That certainly describes the case made by Heath"You're not one of those who wants Edward Heath posthumously tried for treason, by any chance ?michael adams

Michael Adams ● 1710d

Michael Adams said"You're not one of those who wants Edward Heathposthumously tried for treason, by any chance ?"Have you been reading about what happened to Oliver Cromwell's body after the Restoration, by any chance ?

Richard Greenhough ● 1710d

Quite right, Steve - Johnson is prepared to break anything to save himself. The defunding of the BBC is the ultimate act of cultural vandalism. It's much more than a mere cynical diversionary tactic to get Johnson off the hook. It will probably have an ever-increasing appeal to the headbangers in his party, as the corruption and dishonesty of his administration and his own antisocial personality continue to attract more attention by the media. The role of the most respected public broadcasting service in the world is to hold government of any political hue to account. It should be able to do this without fear of being regarded as a hive of "lefties" and having its funding restricted in consequence. If the BBC is starved of adequate funding, it will be obliged to cut expenditure on adventurous programme-making and on covering major sports events, leading inevitably to more questioning of the justification for the licence fee, and in turn to the demise of the BBC as we know it today. That would be unforgiveable.

Robert Fish ● 1710d

I was staggered by the sheer effrontery of Dopey Dorries and her creating about pensioners over 75 being threatened regarding getting a T.V. licence. Apart from the fact this function had been outsourced (yes, really) to a private company. it also seems to have been conveniently forgotten that none of this would be happening had Nasty Nadine and her fellow scumbags not reneged on their manifesto commitment to keep the free T.V. licences in the first place. As for the attack on the BBC an institution trusted all over the world, if they are upsetting the right and the left then they are obviously doing the job properly without fear or favour. So if the Tories don't like their shortcomings plastered all over national T.V. then the answer lies in their own hands.

Vanessa Smith ● 1710d

'That certainly describes the case made by Heath and Wilson in 1975.'Mr. Whataboutery strikes again - didn't Attlee do something to upset you during his premiership, and don't forget Keir Hardy - surely he p*ssed you off at some point too?Pathetic.

Vanessa Smith ● 1710d

Richard Greenhough asked..." Have you been reading about what happened to Oliver Cromwell's body after the Restoration, by any chance ? "That was then. This time round instead of digging up his body they attacked his posthumous reputationaccusing him of taking part in orgies involving children and all sorts. Evidence courtesy of "Nick"The same fate as would doubtless have awaited Jeremy Corbyn had the Anti-Semitism smears failed to stick.Courtesy of some other fantasist.michael adams

Michael Adams ● 1710d

The reasons for Labour's collapse in the north and midlands are complex and I don't believe that they will ever get back to their former dominance. However, the indications currently are that they will win back a lot of lost seats at the next election and hopefully will never take voters in those areas for granted again.One major social change that Labour needs to look at is the way in which government is increasingly funded through charges, fines and fees and not general taxation. In London this includes an expensive to use transport system. The effect of funding this way is highly regressive and very unfair.  Labour politicians have often promoted measures which have purported to be green but clearly the chief intention of which is to raise money.Their blind spot on this is perhaps revealed by the BBC issue. Labour seems to have failed to recognise that for some people the cost is a big chunk out of their disposable income and to characterise it as 42p a day like some dodgy insurance company is not going to work. Under the current funding arrangements the cost of the licence would have just continued to rise mainly to pay the ever increasing costs of the corporation's pension fund.There isn't really any sustained hostility to the BBC itself among the population despite the consistent attempts of the right wing press to stir it up but the licence is a highly regressive tax and needs to be revisited. This issue is part of a deeper problem of government finances that Labour really need to get to grips with which will be hard when they have to take over from the most profligate administration this country has ever seen.

Mark Evans ● 1710d

I find it difficult to know how people can subscribe to so many other media: Netflix, Sky - all saying "only about £25 a month".  The BBC is relatively cheap and has all the radio stations as well as TV

Vivienne Cox ● 1710d

If, and when the lovely Nadine,sorts the "rotten toThe core bbc"out maybe sheMight come and sort, thisForum out.?

James Dow ● 1710d

She would if it would help save her beloved boss.

Mark Evans ● 1710d

“ There isn't really any sustained hostility to the BBC itself among the population”I believe there is quite some hostility towards the BBC for the outrageous salaries being paid to some presenters and news readers. Especially some who are only on radio and don’t even need to look presentable. Do we really need to pay a radio DJ over £1 million to play a few tunes for a couple of hours each weekday morning!

Steve Taylor ● 1710d

Vanessa said "..didn't Attlee do something to upset you during his premiership, and don't forget Keir Hardy.."There were many errors made during Attlee's premiership, but as far as I know he didn't set out to tell "downright lies and chicanery" about the EU (or Common Market, as it was known in the 1970s), which is the issue you brought up and I commented on. He was better than that. As for the Hardy boy, wasn't he a character in a series of children's books and a spin-off TV series ? Or did you mean Mr Hardie, after whom the current Labour Party leader is named ?

Richard Greenhough ● 1710d

Richard Greenhough asked..." Or did you mean Mr Hardie, after whom the current Labour Party leader is named ?Being reduced to having to point out other people's spelling mistakes, has often been regarded as a last resort of someone unable to establish or maintain any semblance of credibility, in any other way.Something like that, anyway. michael adams

Michael Adams ● 1710d

Well, you should know, Mr Mr Adamns.

Richard Greenhough ● 1710d

Richard Greenhough explained"Well, you should know, Mr Mr Adamns"That's twice you've used that one now.Except that's a "typo", and not a spelling mistake.So nice try, but no cigar I'm afraid.Again.Still at least you have your two gold stars.  michael adams

Michael Adams ● 1709d

Actually, I thought it was a Freudian slip - "A damns" seems quite appropriate for some of your posts.

Richard Greenhough ● 1709d

Richard Greenhough speculated" Actually, I thought it was a Freudian slip - "A damns" seems quite appropriate for some of your posts."Yet another "snide" remark, I notice.Except I never "damn" anybody or anything. I simply try to point out the errors in people's thinking, and the possible consequences. Brexit, CS9, history is littered with such mistakes. And in years to come,books will be written - or maybe just messages scratched on rocks, describing how and why it all went so very, very, wrong.  michael adams... 

Michael Adams ● 1709d

Those who resent "outrageous salaries" are obviously not true Tory supporters, if they're unwilling to leave determination of remuneration to labour market clearing!

Robert Fish ● 1709d

Hilarious: https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1483418498944671746?t=KDbEU0cwZ0cQrofhRjSsBQ&s=08

Robert Fish ● 1709d

Brilliant!Did you hear that prat Johnson on the news? 'No-one told me it was against the rules'. They're his government's bloody rules FFS.

Vanessa Smith ● 1709d

Warning: don't mess with the BBC!

Robert Fish ● 1709d

Johnson: "nobody warned me it was against the rules, I am categorical about that." Not just devious but also ridiculous! Ignorantia juris non excusat.

Robert Fish ● 1709d

The wise and willing of the tory party are now being dragged round the studios to support Johnson. Their current line is "nothing Cummings says is credible, look at the Barnard Castle fiasco". Fair enough, Cummings was clearly wrong and lying at that time. So hardly a credible witness.But Johnson chose to believe him and fully supported him. So what does that say about Johnson's own credibility? So not just devious and ridiculous, but also gullible.

Alan Clark ● 1709d

PMQs today absolutely riveting, A Tory crossing the floor, others deserting Johnson and Keir Starmer on fire!

Vanessa Smith ● 1708d

Starmer, what a squeaky poodle. Pity Rayner wasn’t allowed up.Mr Speaker put on the best show as the Landlord - ‘my pub, my rules’ here’s the door if you don’t like it.

Russell Pearson ● 1708d

Yeah, it's getting good isn't it.But................

Sarah Vickers ● 1708d

Agreed Vanessa - what on earth next -

Helen Bamberger ● 1708d

"A Tory crossing the floor"Christian Wakeford, the next Winston Churchill ? Bury South isn't that far from Oldham......

Richard Greenhough ● 1708d

Hardly!

Vanessa Smith ● 1708d

Nothwithstanding Boris being further in the mire with stories of his Bithday Party celebrations in Downing Street surfacing...there is now the milder topic of Ms Nasrat Ghani in the headlines. I was surprise to see her name arise today.Some 12 years ago she was around Chiswick quiet a lot supporting Mary Macleod's campaign.Nasrat was most impressive..both her looks and utterances. In a few years she would be in Parliament herself,made an acclaimed maiden speech..and gained promotion soon.It was her little mentioned connection with Chiswick that strikes.Fancy her "issue" being raised at this time.

Jim Lawes ● 1703d

Well, Julius Caesar wasn't just stabbed by one person, was he?

Vivienne Cox ● 1703d

Lol

Janice Evans ● 1702d