Forum Topic

Tube drivers

So TFL have no money but the tube drivers want more money. Nothing changes when it comes to certain trade unions.....

david ward ● 1741d32 Comments

Well, don't forget that the agreement the night tube drivers had has just been torn up by management, so it's no wonder they're brassed off.

Vanessa Smith ● 1741d

Let's just forget the night tube and make it the law that everyone must be in bed by midnight.

Susan Kelly ● 1741d

Aren’t they already paid more than Airline pilots?

Steve Taylor ● 1741d

Whatever you might think, tube drivers don't have a cushy life. And while they do get reasonable amount of leave, like most other people who are employed legally, they are only able to take a small portion of this leave on days of their own choice, regardless of what their rota says. Once you've used this limited amount of leave up, if your rota says you have to work, a request for leave can be flatly refused, months ahead.For safety reasons (like airplane pilots) there are very strict rules on alcohol, so their evening off the day before working can't be spent like many of us do on occasion, in the pub having a few beers with mates.They have an effective strong union, good for them. I'm sure some tube drivers are paid more than some airline pilots and I'm sure plenty of air line pilots are paid more than most or perhaps even all tube drivers.

Andrew Jones ● 1741d

An airline pilot's remuneration in the UK ranges from £51,434.00pa to £120,981.00pa. The average base pay of a Tube driver is £55,011.00pa, but night drivers earn about half that, as they are effectively part time. Trainee drivers are paid £32,375.00pa during their training, and they all get free travel for themselves and a partner, and can retire, with pension, when they reach the age of 50. A few drivers earn over £100,000.00pa, which is not bad when almost half the network is automatic, which means most of them have the onerous task of simply opening and closing the doors. All drivers receive 2 annual travel passes worth £3,548.00 each. Not a bad package I suppose, for what they actually do. I also noticed that the RMT are working flat out to try and get a driver who was sacked due to failing 3 drug tests. What's their reasoning behind that? What company would consider defending an employee charged with a drink/drug driving offence?

Brian Coyle ● 1740d

Yet you can hardly compare the skill and training of an airline pilot with a train driver. There is no comparison. Tube drivers are already overpaid and should understand that they effectively work for a bankrupt organisation!!!

Steve Taylor ● 1740d

On the other hand it is a good time for tube drivers to strike as it will prevent many people spreading the virus!!

Steve Taylor ● 1740d

Hardly their fault that TfL is nearly bankrupt.  What are they supposed to do? work for pennies and hand the rest over?

Vivienne Cox ● 1740d

But they aren’t working for pennies  They are extremely well paid for what they do. It’s just GREED!

Steve Taylor ● 1740d

What you probably don't like is that they've got a strong union.Airline pilots have a very weak union in BALPA because generally they've always sold out their fellow pilots. That's why their T&Cs have progressively got worse. Who can honestly say their terms and conditions have got better at their job?

Basil Finnis ● 1740d

Yeah, what type of Union would try to get a tube driver reinstated after being sacked for failing three drug tests, as alleged by another poster on this thread?  Nice people prepared to put peoples lives at risk to prove how ‘strong’ they are. If that story is true, it is beyond disgusting!

Steve Taylor ● 1740d

While Tube drivers - at least in your blinkered opinion - are "already overpaid", Steve, I'd steer clear of delving in to what some of the other train operating companies pay their drivers - you might just choke on your morning tea.While drivers may well have a fairly easy life (if you don't mind 3AM starts/2am finishes, not being able to have a tipple when it suits you, being told when you'll take your leave, or spending most of your working day in isolation on your own).Tell them they have a cushy job when some poor soul has jumped in front of their train to take their life. Or tell them that when the train breaks down and they have to get it fixed, all while hundreds of people in the cars behind wait.

Dave Smith ● 1740d

If if if

Basil Finnis ● 1740d

" I'd steer clear of delving in to what some of the other train operating companies pay their drivers - you might just choke on your morning tea."Well, we are talkng about tube drivers not 'other train operating companies' but indulge me if you like - tell us what other train companies pay.As for early starts etc - so what?  What about nurses, firemen, ambulance staff and HGV drivers who have to sleep in their cabs and don't get home for weeks on end!!! It's the jobs they choose to do.As for your analogy about jumping on tracks - ridiculous!  How often does that happen? Compare with motorway accidents, heart attacks in coffee shops or other such accidents which all of us may have to suffer at some stage of our lives. I think bus drivers have a much, much more difficult and stressful job than a tube driver on automated transport just  opening and closing doors.

Steve Taylor ● 1740d

'Well, we are talkng about tube drivers not 'other train operating companies' but indulge me if you like - tell us what other train companies pay.'I don't 'like', but as someone who is clearly adept when it comes to the keyboard, Google away. Based on your railway expertise, I suspect you'll know there's very little difference in the tasks they complete.  'As for your analogy about jumping on tracks - ridiculous!  How often does that happen?'In normal times, 2+ (actual 'hits') a week. There was 300-odd successful interventions (people being stopped) in the last year. Enough for you?Rather that arguing Tube drivers' pay should come down, perhaps use some of that energy to campaign for raising the wages of those you think deserve more.

Dave Smith ● 1740d

“ I don't 'like', but as someone who is clearly adept when it comes to the keyboard, Google away”Obviously you have no evidence or you would have supplied it.  Pointless trying to debate with someone whose only answer is “google away”Quite pathetic!

Steve Taylor ● 1740d

By the way your suicide rates numbers for London Underground are false. Very much out of date. You need to google to get current figures rather than quote from 2001. In fact figures decreased from 2014  so by your argument, perhaps pay awards should decrease?

Steve Taylor ● 1740d

Gp's are also demanding more money to return to working face to face with the public.I think this should be of much greater concern to all, especially as most people have gone back to working as normal for some time now.They should also realise the pressure on and the commitment shown by hospital doctors and nurses and show some support for them and some gratitiuse and humility.Fat chance of that.

Keith Iddon ● 1740d

Mmmmm. I agree that hospital doctors could be paid more because they are very much front line all of the time but GP’s have had quite an easy ride over the last year working from home and by telephone.  Do they REALLY deserve more to be encouraged to see more patients face to face or mask to mask.  We have all taken risks by ‘returning to office’. Why should GPs be any different to the rest of us considering they already well paid and it was their choice to become (and remain) GP’s.

Steve Taylor ● 1740d

Oh dear. Jump at every Conservative party dog whistle. Doctors now, what next, nurses?While the politicians shower themselves and their friends in billions of tax payers money that's OK obviously?Do you know the crap that GPS have to put up with day in and day out? The endless line of people. I certainly wouldn't want that job for any money.

Basil Finnis ● 1740d

Steve and Basil, I think you have mist the jist of what I wrote.I am neitrher defending a pay rise for gp's or hospital doctors and nor am I sticking up for a profligate and self serving Eton mess of a government.I suggest the way that a working class union asking for more money for its members at this time is roundly viewed as holding TFL and the public to ransom, and how a middle/upper class one doing the same for its members barely gets a harrumph of dissapproval.Despite even the fact that a gp's have far more importance in your life and are far better paid than most people already.

Keith Iddon ● 1740d

Just read your reply again, Basil and have had to choke back tears for gp's having to put up with 'crap' every day and 'the endless line of people'(who pay their wages).I was choking back tears of laughter btw..

Keith Iddon ● 1740d

I'm with you with this Keith.Some of the GPs friends,family and myself have had the misfortune to be under the care of have been appalling:arrogant,conceited and rude.I've had to lead clinically and point out anomalies in test results and ask that they follow NHS/NICE guidelines.These are local GPs,one of whom nearly killed my stepdaughter by delaying an urgent referral for chest pains which turned out to be cancer.She was told her bra was too tight.Another hastened the demise of my late father.The complaints processes ,their own,clinial care commisioning  groups,the GMC and the ombudsman are a farce.They protect their own.I'd advise everyone to make sure they have access to their medical records (GPs and NHS)and to correct any errors.

Ben Gemmingen ● 1740d

Yes Ben, I can also recall instances where I have had to almost lead a gp through my symptoms by the hand to arrive at a probable cause as has one of my friends very recently.We all, quite rightly, laud the standards of care in the NHS when they get it right,but boy oh boy do they also get it wrong.The attitude amongst doctors is that if you criticise one, you are criticising them all, which is simply not the case.Between their attitude and the attitude sometimes shown by their receptionists, it's a wonder we get to see or speak to tham at all.A little competition might not be amiss.

Keith Iddon ● 1740d

I agree and I'm not speaking from a party political point of view nor is this about funding.It's about transparency and accountability.I'd had enough of local GP practices (I won't name them here as I'd like this to end up in court and in Private Eye) so I registered with Babylon Healthcare(GP at Hand) who've been great.Some will have misgivings about their financial setup but I am impressed by the way you are treated ie with dignity and respect.It's a mixture of phone,video and face to face treatment where everything is recorded and one can upload images and email what's happening.The support staff are really good and irrespective of Covid,issues are acted on,not swatted away as has been my experience with GPs.

Ben Gemmingen ● 1740d

That seems like a good option,although I do resent a little the fact that I have paid all the state has ever asked me in my 45 years at work,partly on the grounds that I will have decent health care when I need it.If the gp's at Babylon can see patients, why can't an NHS gp do the same I wonder?

Keith Iddon ● 1740d

I understand the demands that GPs are under so this organisation judges when a face to face appointment is needed.Intially you talk to either a nurse practioner or a clinicalcare assistant who ,within the limits of their roles will either refer you on to a prsecribing pharmacist or to a face to face appointment with a GP plus they will authorise standard tests immediately ,not like GPs.The above happens within days,not weeks.All emails are acknowledged and acted on.They have six clinics across London so it does necessitate travelling to one of them to get to be seen soonest.In a way it's like triage in A&E.They use modern technology ,AI and bog standard mails and uploads.This saves a lot of money in the long run.In most GP practices the turnaround between GPs and healthrusts is six weeks ie.three for a letter to be sent ,three weeks for a reply.In my experience up to now,this communication is much quicker ,partiularly when you're copied in with it.The NHS is very inefficcient,too many chiefs ,not enough Indians etc.PS Babylon is private and NHS so anyone register.

Ben Gemmingen ● 1739d

..or why don't the Babylon GPs work for the NHS, remove the profit-making element and contribute to the greater good of all?! See 'Babylon's...impact on other NHS services in the area is causing concern amongst clinicians..' at https://www.wired.co.uk/article/babylon-health-nhs

Peter Evans ● 1739d

They do work for the NHS.Those clinicians are afraid of competition.You do realise that all GP practices are private companies,notactually part of the NHS,don't you?

Ben Gemmingen ● 1739d

A & E are packed, as many have been unable to see a doctor.

Janice Evans ● 1739d

Exactly Ben. This is all feeding into the narrative that the NHS is not fit for purpose and that the only option is for more privatisation of it. Of course, there are huge challenges facing the NHS even before the pandemic. The NHS has been consistently underfunded so the cracks are growing ever wider. It’s hard not to think it’s being done on purpose in preparation for privatisation.

Stewart Jones ● 1739d

"Yet you can hardly compare the skill and training of an airline pilot with a train driver".  I wasn't - just noting them.

Brian Joseph Coyle ● 1738d