Forum Topic

Car Use, Climate Change, Carbon Footprint

Another walk to drop off the kids and I was thinking about personal choice and climate change.  I’m guessing most of the people who post on here are from around Chiswick.  So are probably in work, middle class and financially ok (I know not everyone will fit into the category).  Being in this position gives us more choice.  Where we live, what schools our children go to, where we shop, how we shop etc.So many of us can choose not to use a car, but walk, bike etc. and it makes little difference to our day-to-day life.  In fact, walking and cycling does us good and it helps reduce pollution.  But obviously not everyone is in this position, they don’t have the easy choice to drop the car.So, what is our own personal carbon footprint.  Is the car the biggest factor?  For the last couple of years, mine has been small.  But I’m guessing it will go up soon when I start to travel out of the country for work.  Would I be prepared to change job to reduce that?  Honestly, no.Ed, sorry single you out but I think you are the only person who has talked about his company with David on here.  I believe that most if not all your business is done via mail/internet order/delivery and that you have no high street presence (Sorry if I have got that wrong).  But would you be prepared to get a shop and stop all deliveries, or even change your line of work to reduce your own carbon footprint?  I’m guessing like me the answer would be “no” as It’s a difficult and life changing decision.My point is just because it is easy for us to reduce car use, it isn’t for everyone.  We should all try to listen to the other side of the argument.  Also to one person in particular, stop trolling everyone that has a different opinion to you.

Kieran Fox ● 1865d16 Comments

Our car gets used once a week, sometimes twice, and our next car will be all electric. We made the decision to cycle locally once our boys were old enough to cycle to school by themselves so after many years we dropped the car from the school run. Working from home we have no commute. I'd say our carbon footprint is as small as we can get it for the moment.

Chris Blackwell ● 1865d

Ed, actually said he don't want people to ditch their cars he wants themto clock up the LTNs, it's a tax on drivers, the pollution issue ?

Janice Evans ● 1863d

Good thread Kieran.I bought my diesel car almost 13 years ago as part of the Mandelson inspired scrappage scheme and it uses far less fuel than the petrol vehicle I used to drive and I now drive less than 2k miles per year as opposed to over 10k.It only needs a service every two years and is extremely reliable.I wonder if I were to change to an electric vehicle, if my motoring carbon footprint might rise as I very probably use the vehicle a lot more,especially as it will be over 30k to buy and would be far too expensive to use as a driveway ornament/conversation piece?

Keith Iddon ● 1863d

"Ed, sorry single you out but I think you are the only person who has talked about his company with David on here.  I believe that most if not all your business is done via mail/internet order/delivery and that you have no high street presence (Sorry if I have got that wrong).  But would you be prepared to get a shop and stop all deliveries, or even change your line of work to reduce your own carbon footprint?  I’m guessing like me the answer would be “no” as It’s a difficult and life changing decision."No worries - happy to answer briefly.  About to jump on the bike to pick up the kids from CHR and take them onto a school fair.  I mention because small personal choice to avoid using the car - as much for personal fitness (I put on a lot of weight during lockdown!) as anything else.Our company works with third party stores - we have two excellent ones in Chiswick - Planet Organic and Windfall and we'd be unlikely to open our own ones.Reducing our carbon footprint is a priority - the first step is to measure it.  We are a manufacturer (in South Acton), so we do at least have data on the carbon produced during manufacture, but we need to track back and work out the carbon footprint of the production of ingredients as well.  It isn't just about distribution CO2.We are hoping to move to a bigger factory (also in Acton) where I vetoed the use of gas and we are putting in additional electricity capacity (via green generation).Our biggest B2C export market is in the USA.  Previous we shipped products directly to customers across the US.We have just opened a facility in Ohio.  We estimate saving around 50 tonnes of CO2 flying goods to the USA.  And for the last mile we are using a service that is 100% carbon off set.  In the future we'd like to deliver to city markets like London, NY and Paris via zero emissions vehicles - although that is starting to happen anyway as operations like Fedex invest in electric vans and cargo bikes.Our aim is to save as much CO2 as possible across all operations and be at least carbon neutral and ideally carbon negative.We have some way to go!But the short answer to your question is no.  I wouldn't consider scaling back what we do from a small company with global ambitions to a small company that is only local - and losing the majority of our (local) workforce in the process.  I believe we can have profitable, global British enterprises without producing a commensurate amount of CO2 as we grow.

Ed Saper ● 1863d

I saw on another thread that some people think that replacing a car is good for the environment. Getting rid of cars that are end of life might make a difference, but if they are being replaced we should think about what is replacing them and the carbon cost. I am not convinced that electric cars are any better because of the disposal of the batteries and instead of the car creating carbon emissions, the power plant does instead. It would be interesting if comparison numbers existed, I've not found any, but I didn’t look far. There are also computers, which is currently one of the worlds biggest carbon footprint problems because of its continued expansion. The server refrigeration has already created a helium shortage. With the internets continued expansion, it is a big problem that is only going to get worse. It is already as much as the carbon footprint of the entire aviation industry. The introduction of online supermarket shopping is unlikely to have any effect on our carbon footprint, if anything it will probably be worse. Anyone that previously walked, used the bus or cycled will have increased their carbon footprint by using a computer and having it delivered. Anyone that used a car is unlikely to make much difference, any saving by having multiple deliveries are lost by using a computer. If you were to close all supermarkets and have internet orders only, it would increase our carbon footprint. Shops would be replaced with warehouses any display refrigeration savings would be needed for servers. With no one able to walk to the shops, even deliveries by bike would be a huge increase in our carbon footprint. The only way to save the planet now is to switch off your computer. As things switch to online only, I would expect supermarkets to use a similar formula to electric bikes and claim their carbon footprint is lower because they employ less staff.

Colin Potter ● 1859d

Essentially a similar story here, although I admit to being a fair weather cyclist only. If it is raining and I need to do a shopping run at that time or the shopping load is too heavy or too bulky to conveniently walk or cycle to Chiswick Sainsbury's then I take the car to Richmond.I do use the car for trips to my parents (300 miles away) for the simple reason that the cost by train is 3x the cost by car

Justin Stephenson ● 1859d

I was having a similar email discussion with a friend. He made this observation." No one ever seems to want to discuss how much power is being consumed by streaming videos and taking pictures of your lunch for instance.The global consumption of the data centres and network infrastructure is truly eye watering and dwarfs manufacturing and all other activities put together."I just watched a report on the BBC 6.00 News on the dependance (especially among the poor) on coal. We are truly in deep trouble..

Bruce Hammal ● 1859d

I read somewhere recently that energy production accounts for 71% of CO2 emissions. Obviously some of that 71% of emissions can be attributable to data centres. Bitcoin mining is just one example of the destructive influence of computer use.

Andrew Jones ● 1859d

....the poor in India that should have read.

Bruce Hammal ● 1859d

We often shuffle around the sidelines and avoid the difficult issues.Pets are a problem in so many ways, and without denying the joy and succour they bring to many poeple, an immense drain on resources. Kids now are often just seen as a way to finance or care for their oldies, hideous.But because so much is focused on single issue politics, either through government or pressure groups, we rarely have a joined up thoughtful debate on evaluating these issues.It's sure as hell won't happen on this site and I'd not expect it to happen in government either.

Tessa Russell ● 1859d

Google’s data centres use 100% renewable energy - which is where our online stores are operated from. Microsoft is getting there and Amazon is behind but should get there by 2025.  They all make use of carbon credits and offsets, so not all energy is renewable.For anyone switching on their computer who doesn’t have solar panels on the roof, there’s Octopus Energy. Our head office uses renewable electricity... shame about the gas boiler we inherited, but not much we can do with a 75 year old building in winter except wait for hydrogen! The poster makes the argument that carbon emissions from using your computer are so high that you'd be emitting the same carbon by using your car driving to the supermarket, so the only way to decrease emissions is to turn off your computer.That, for want of a better word, is bollocks.  He just wants to justify doing nothing.We should all be trying to do something.  Even if what you all do is minimal, it all adds up.

Ed Saper ● 1859d

It’s all adding up for Octopushttps://www.nationalworld.com/lifestyle/money/is-octopus-energy-going-bust-what-the-uk-suppliers-founder-said-on-twitter-amid-rising-wholesale-gas-prices-3389370

Russell Pearson ● 1859d

This is where you get your information from?! Octopus is not, as far as reported by credible sources, going bust.Have to wonder why a brand so associated with renewable electricity, would even bother with gas - 100% offset or otherwise.

Ed Saper ● 1859d

Ed - Congrats on your successful venture with Clarins. I trust multiple millions will go a long way toward achieving your goals. In waiving your virtue flag, you neglect to mention jetting product globally and the amount of packaging generated. I also can't help but note Ohio is a republican-led state that voted Trump twice. Not exactly a group known for climate change facts and initiatives. So I wonder why that choice.If we boil that down ad look back to Kieran's initial question, it would appear the answer is a no. Growth and success are more important than reducing carbon footprint.  I always enjoy being taken to task for wanting to make an efficient delivery using a hybrid vehicle locally while others far more virtuous than I can jet stuff here, there and everywhere.

David Lesniak ● 1858d

"If we boil that down ad look back to Kieran's initial question, it would appear the answer is a no."Agreed - I said:"the short answer to your question is no."You then said:"Growth and success are more important than reducing carbon footprint."I disagree.  I said:"I believe we can have profitable, global British enterprises without producing a commensurate amount of CO2 as we grow."USA is out biggest export market outside Europe and we aim to be carbon neutral in logistics.  This involves sea freight instead of airplanes and offsetting the excess.From tomorrow all domestic USA customers will have the option to use a carbon neutral delivery service.  You might think that doing all this costs more money and there must be some sort of tradeoff. In fact, sea freight, working with a 3PL and using a carbon neutral service is cheaper and thus more profitable than shipping direct from London and for most locations it takes about the same or slightly quicker to deliver to the customer. 

Ed Saper ● 1858d

It’s great to see that Brexit is playing its part in the climate change battle. A shortage of qualified lorry drivers is leading to fuel shortages. Petrol stations may have to shut. Panic buying is imminent. Who knew that Brexit would deliver such enormous ecological benefits ?

Alan Clark ● 1858d