Forum Topic

Question on PCN appeal

Good afternoon,Apologies for "gate crashing" on this site as I live in Putney.My husband got a PCN for driving on Hartington Road beyond the junction with Chiswick Quay.  We had no idea the road had been closed (have not used this route for over 2 years) and Waze took him there to reach the A4.  The signage, by the way, is really appalling!He appealed the PCN on 28 August 2021 but has not heard from LBH up till now other than an automatic acknowledgement to the online appeal on 28/8/21.Does the LBH normally take this long to reply to appeals? Thank you

Ivonne Holliday ● 1873d19 Comments

"Does the LBH normally take this long to reply to appeals?"Yes.  They have recently been taking many weeks.  Appeals to parking PCNs have to be answered within 8 weeks, but there is no equivalent limit for moving traffic PCNs like your husband's.  Hounslow say "we consider three months to be reasonable (in most cases we will respond much sooner than this)".Just be patient and don't be tempted to hassle them.

Richard Jennings ● 1873d

Hello Richard,Thank you so much for your reply, it is most helpful indeed!I was getting nervous as the cut off date of the lower penalty charge is next week.  But if they consider 3 months to be reasonable.....  I assume that when I get a reply, the clock will start ticking again.I promise I shall not hassle them!! Thank you again for your comments and suggestions!

Ivonne Holliday ● 1873d

Sorry to say I would be surprised if your appeal is granted. I did the exact same thing earlier in the year, having followed the same route to the Roko Health Club I always used before the first lockdown, and also not being aware of the new restrictions.As you will know it is fine to drive the one way up Cavendish Road onto Hartington, but not to then return the same way. This is very confusing, and the signage was certainly not clear to me - I didn't see it!I appealed the ticket and it was upheld, and so I took it to appeal, but this was also overturned as I was told the signage was adequate. I had to then pay the full £130.Apparently they have now made over £2 million in fines with this restriction alone. Obviously I wish you well with your appeal, but apparently you have to provide clear photographic evidence from the day of the contravention showing the signage was not visible (some have done this, and had the PCN cancelled).It also took them nearly three months to get back to me with the decision, probably because they are dealing with thousands of similar appeals.

Mark Edwards ● 1873d

I thought the restriction allowed access to the Roko Health Club and the University of Westminster playing fields?

Mark Evans ● 1873d

Once you've challenged the PCN, the discount clock stops.  Hounslow normally re-offer the discount if they reject a challenge, and you'd then have 14 days to pay at the lower charge.

Richard Jennings ● 1873d

Not me, but maybe that was because I took it to the next stage of appeal? Also you can drive to the Roko Health Club from Cavendish, but not return the same way - you have to turn left out of the club and then onto the A316. This is what is so confusing, although they have since put better signage at the exit of the club carpark warning people not to turn right.

Mark Edwards ● 1873d

Good morning,Thank you all very much indeed for your replies.  I am very grateful.I'll let you know when I hear from Hounslow Council. Thank you again.

Ivonne Holliday ● 1872d

This thread raises another issue with the Hartington Road restriction.While probably not as big as the problem with low-income delivery drivers and taxi-drivers getting hit with fines, there is clearly an issue with members of visiting teams and crews getting hit with PCNs as they are unfamiliar with the area.Now that football teams like Polytechnic FC and Old Meads are back in action there has been a significant increase in the amount of traffic here at the weekend. As has been pointed out there is only one sign (not placed by the council) warning people exiting the Quintin Hogg Memorial Ground (where Roko is) and if you drive out of Dan Mason Drive there is a big yellow sign telling you not to go down Hartington Road, problem is that most visitors don't know which road that is and are more concerned with negotiating the complicated junction with the A316 and the short traffic light phase that the possibility of a surprise access restriction. You do get another warning sign having reached Hartington Road but lots of people are missing it because they are not expecting there to be any restriction.I spoke to a committee member at one of the local rowing clubs recently and he said that many crew members had been caught out and that there would be a bonanza for the council when large participation races started again.

Francis Rowe ● 1872d

Don't bother trying to appeal. It is purely a cash cow and even the independent adjudicator to whom I escalated it to is bias in the councils favour.

Simon Mabbutt ● 1869d

"even the independent adjudicator to whom I escalated it to is bias in the councils favour."I've just checked the adjudicators' (London Tribunals) website. So far this year they have considered 132 appeals for the Hartington Road restriction. They have refused 115 of them (87%) but have 'allowed' (i.e. accepted) 17 (13%).  Most of the 17 concerned the nature and quality of the signage, including some where tree foliage obscured one sign in April.  In your case, the adjudicator correctly pointed out that you had passed the No Motor Vehicles sign which is what triggered the PCN. I certainly don't think the current signage is ideal, but evidently your arguments didn't convince him that it was not acceptable legally.

Richard Jennings ● 1869d

I didn't realise that you can read the summary of the appeals on London Tribunals. This is my new go-to happy place. Carrying NHS essentials in a BMW X5 was a good effort 🤣Interesting also how you can correlate the number plate of appellants with their MOT and Tax status and see how badly looked after some of the cars are.

Paul Campbell ● 1869d

This was a good response to a perennial complainant on this forum:"The CCTV and photographic evidence shows that the signs in Hartington Road are clear. Even if there are no advance warning signs for drivers turning right out of the sports club, a driver of a vehicle travelling at an appropriate speed for the conditions has time to see the signs, take them in and if necessary stop and turn around."Basically even people driving massive fuel hungry BMW 4-Series Gran Coupe's need to be able to observe and drive at the same time to avoid fines ....

Paul Campbell ● 1869d

A prominent local driver encourages U-Turns in the road to avoid the fine. I guess if you drive a Jag it can turn on the proverbial sixpence.

Russell Pearson ● 1869d

"I guess if you drive a Jag it can turn on the proverbial sixpence."No, but what's wrong with a 3-point turn when faced with an NMV sign?  It's a 20mph road, so shouldn't be dangerous.  I had to do a 5-point turn on a narrow road in Ealing during LTN research.

Richard Jennings ● 1869d

Anybody struggling to turn their car around on Hartington Road should just hand their licence in to the DVLA. Here is the address:DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1BN.

Paul Campbell ● 1869d

Let's just give up fighting the greedy dictatorship of the council. Buy a horse and cart, no parking charges, speeding charges, unauthorised access to road access monitored by ANPR.Maybe that's the way we go

Simon Mabbutt ● 1869d

You haven't thought this through Simon - You will get a fine for not picking up the "compost" after the horse!  I'm old enough to remember my Gran running out with her shovel to collect same to put on her roses!

Cindy Carloss ● 1869d

No fine for not picking up horse poo. No legal requirement to do so!

Rob Reynolds ● 1868d

Not yet Rob, not yet....just give 'em time!

Cindy Carloss ● 1868d