Forum Topic

With one bound, Boris was free

Quite a coincidence that Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunka both happened to be 'randomly allocated' to the group allowed not to self-isolate on the pilot scheme.

Susan Kelly ● 1926d75 Comments

These two odious toads will now isolate after an outcry over a special VIP lane.

Basil Finnis ● 1926d

Is it just me, or is Johnson's 'appeal' falling off a cliff?

Ken Munn ● 1926d

Hope so- about time .

Helen Bamberger ● 1926d

Thank goodness for Boris.

Janice Evans ● 1926d

Or not - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57879730Anyway, who is "Sunka", Ms Kelyl ?

Richard Greenhough ● 1926d

Oops.

Susan Kelly ● 1926d

Both done a uturn and will now self-isolate.  Should think so.

Claire Moran ● 1926d

Shows a terrible lack of judgement/political instinct/common sense/intelligence* from both of them to think they'd get away with. *delete as appropriate

Ken Munn ● 1926d

At least they are flexible which is better than set in concrete.

Janice Evans ● 1926d

Oh really !!!

Helen Bamberger ● 1926d

Being flexible in all matters is important, well I think so.

Janice Evans ● 1926d

Flexible? Or blown by the prevailing wind?

Vivienne Cox ● 1926d

'Being flexible in all matters is important, well I think so.'And how would you demonstrate your flexibility of thought and action, Janice?

Ken Munn ● 1926d

Ken, if you have views please join in.

Janice Evans ● 1926d

My view: Johnson is an adulterous lying charlatan with a minuscule attention span and a narcissistic personality, totally unsuited for public service.Janice's view: the sun shines out of his backside.

Ken Munn ● 1926d

You are entitled to your opinion but please don't tell me my views.

Janice Evans ● 1926d

Personal attacks don't really give a good debate because I'm reluctant to personally attack anyone.

Janice Evans ● 1926d

Ken, apart from constantly knocking the Conservative Party both locally and nationally, who could've done any better  ? You ? Kier Starmer ? It's  always easy to be derogatory about others views but without providing an alternative, this seems to be your consistent MO together with cheap shots - why is that ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 1926d

Keir

Anne England ● 1926d

Jeremy Hunt.

Arnold Saxton ● 1926d

Who could have done better? Almost anyone with a modicum of scientific understanding.

Ken Munn ● 1926d

Janice, you've told us your view on Johnson many many times.

Ken Munn ● 1926d

There was a good interview recently with Jess Phillips where she said that she wished more politicians would accept when they were wrong and change course.

Richard Greenhough ● 1926d

It's a pity that so few politicians are scientists.

Susan Kelly ● 1925d

Indeed. When this government first started, back in early 2020, talking about the nation achieving herd immunity, it was obvious none of them could even do the simple maths that would have shown them that that way lay the deaths of millions of Brits.

Ken Munn ● 1925d

The Dutch PM apologised and changed course. Sometimes when I hear this governments plans I think I am in some sort of dream and will wake up. I read every body has been offered a jab in the UK, well my daughter has not!

Nicholas Beard ● 1925d

67,000,000 less 1 then

Jeffrey Cope ● 1925d

Every government is challenged around the world there are no easy answers as we haven’t had a pandemic of this type before. The challenge is down to society understanding and accepting that covid is real and in some shape or form affects all ages. It only takes a few thousand people to ignore decent cautious behaviour to have a huge impact on the spread of the virus which in turn affects the whole of society. We have millions ignoring the rules so what does a government do? We have to reclaim our lives & businesses.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1925d

Every government around the world faces challenges.  But the thing is, on most objective metrics this government has done significantly worse than others.  We now have more new cases every date than the whole of the EU.The UK public, and most businesses, have shown responsibility and that they will abide by clear rules, fairly applied to all.  There is the recalcitrant 30% or so who take no social responsibility, where firmer enforcement is required.  But to suggest that because some people break the rules we should abolish them altogether makes no sense at all.

T P Howell ● 1925d

Millions ignoring the rules? Which rules? Which people?This is a thread about our Prime Minister’s own plans to ignore the rules, isn’t it?It’s also the day when most of the rules have been removed by the same Prime Minister.

Kerry Chandler ● 1925d

PM not ignoring rules, government and essential services need to keep functioning so trying a new system of testing if double vaccinated makes sense. If it works then roll it out to the general population but only to those double vaccinated.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1925d

He tried to get away with it and made a U turn. He then fled to Chequers.

Stewart Jones ● 1925d

Maybe tough being a leader of a country he is torn between keep working or self isolate and conduct business via zoom. I have no issue with new testing systems being trialled for essential workers if they work great roll it out. Whatever he does backseat drivers will have a moan who would want to enter politics???

Jayne Thorburn ● 1925d

"who would want to enter politics"?Boris Johnson for one. A volunteer cannot complain. Unfortunately, he has so discredited the British political system with his overwhelming cynicism that now only his fellow carpet baggers will follow his example. We will lose a generation of decent, committed people entering politics (from all political persuasions).

T P Howell ● 1924d

"Unfortunately, he has so discredited the British political system with his overwhelming cynicism that now only his fellow carpet baggers will follow his example."Now that sounds like a description of Harold Wilson.

Richard Greenhough ● 1924d

Message removed

Ken Munn ● 1924d

Richard, can we bring you back to 2021? Harold Wilson died more than a quarter of a century ago. He has literally no relevance to any of this.

Kerry Chandler ● 1924d

Is there any evidence about 18 or is that particular quote apocryphal?

Andrew Jones ● 1924d

Although Cummings is a nasty piece of work, Johnson knew that when he appointed him. So now Cummings says that Johnson did not want to impose restrictions last Autumn because it was only people over 80 who were dying and that Johnson did not agree to the NHS being overwhelmed ‘stuff.Johnson also wanted to continue to see the Queen weekly until it was pointed out to him that she might die as a result.As the government has now absolved itself of all responsibility why not start the enquiry now. If the government has time to overhaul (and sell off) the NHS, then appointing a committee to enquire is easily done.

Stewart Jones ● 1924d

Stewart, what I really don't understand about this is why would Boris want his voters dead. it makes no sense and why vaccinate them first if he didnot care about them.

Janice Evans ● 1924d

Someone on here suggested he was vaccinating the elderly first because they were his voters, it goes on and on just nonsense.

Janice Evans ● 1924d

Running a successful economy and balancing the needs of everyone is never going to be easy. Cummings is a nasty piece of work of that there is no doubt. The nightingale hospitals were rarely used and only for a handful of people so factually  the NHS did cope just but at least the government paid for a contingency plan that thankfully turned out to be unnecessary so BJ saying in private & confidential meeting the NHS was not overstretched is factually correct. For sure the staff were exhausted as they were operating at capacity for a few months on and off. Conversations should be put into context and not Cummings sound bites. For sure older folk suffer more from covid and sadly die but I can understand a conversation that suggests locking down the whole economy is a drastic decision for the majority of the population who will suffer mild symptoms, or none at all. Remember this is a first, no one has a crystal ball and everyone in the world is learning how best to balance the health of the nation versus economy.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1924d

Kerry, I was trying to remind the Boris-bashers that we have had dubious PMs before, and no doubt will do so again in the future.

Richard Greenhough ● 1924d

I don’t believe you Richard.  I think you were using your well trodden tactic of introducing an irrelevant point in order to avoid confronting the issue under discussion.  ‘Boris bashers,’ as you dismissively describe his critics, are as aware as anyone else that we have had ‘dubious PMs before’.

Alastair Banton ● 1924d

You may believe what you like, Alastair - we are still a free country despite everything, so you have the right to be wrong. According to Matthew Parris' column in The Times on July 14th, at a meeting to discuss Iain Dale's book 'The Prime Ministers', Andrew Adonis "remarked innocently that it was a wonderful tribute to our democracy and national character that at least 45 of our 55 PMs have been 'absolutely useless' - incompetent, dim-witted, corrupt, ill-judged or simply lazy - but the British ship of state has sailed successfully on, regardless."So let's keep that context in mind when flagging up the failings of the present incumbent.

Richard Greenhough ● 1924d

So far as I can see, Cummings has one, and one only, professional skill: mendacity. That is exactly why Johnson appointed him.  Birds of a feather, etc.So I have no sympathy that Cummings has come back to bite him.

T P Howell ● 1924d

Yet more distraction tactics. What is the relevance of C18 and C19 PMs, who make up more than half of Adonis's 55? Altera tempora, alteri mores. Let's confine our attention to the post-war period. Can you honestly say that in 76 years there has been a PM more dishonest, corrupt, lazy, incompetent and contemptuous of constitutional niceties or international law than Johnson?

Robert Fish ● 1924d

Interesting that Ken's post of a collection of Boris Johnson quotes has been removed. A tacit acknowledgment by the site moderator that Johnson's published statements are beyond the pale even for ChiswickW4.com.

Paul Campbell ● 1924d

‘Boris bashers,’ as you dismissively describe his critics, are as aware as anyone else that we have had ‘dubious PMs before’.Richard has already dragged Harold Wilson into this when trying to make excuses for BJ - who is next for a mention? Gladstone, Disraeli, Robert Peel?

Vanessa Smith ● 1924d

Or that they were'nt true and were potentially libelous ?

Richard Greenhough ● 1924d

No the moderator of this site doesn't take responsibility for libellous comments and leaves that to dispute between contributors. So unless BJ has sent a letter from a lawyer to Ken then I think we can dismiss that suggestion.

Paul Campbell ● 1924d

"..who is next for a mention?"Well, there's always Lord North......

Richard Greenhough ● 1924d

Our economy is not successful for a lot of people. It is for some people especially those who have made a fortune from Covid? But what about the huge increase in child poverty, the doubling of the national debt (before Covid) under the Torues,, the £37 billion given to Serco, the ongoing damage that Brexit is having and will continue to have? Johnson is callous and has no moral compass. To even contemplate not imposing restrictions because most people over 80 get it and will die sooonish anyway is monstrous.Let’s start the enquiry now.

Stewart Jones ● 1923d

That’s the whole point Stewart, we need to get the economy going again, people’s income, mental health etc. & NHS needs to get back to providing care for non covid patients, cancer treatments etc. It’s a very tricky balance and no one has all the right answers. Vaccinating the most vulnerable first was the right approach but we have to accept we can not  live in lockdown, so if we need vaccine passports fine, if it helps to limit the spread and thus protect as many people as possible.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1923d

JT > "... if we need vaccine passports fine, if it helps to limit the spread and thus protect as many people as possible."If that is the case, they should be implemented immediately else the risky behaviours/venues should remain prohibited until they can be implemented.

John Whitworth ● 1923d

John vaccine passports are controversial as well you know but if cases continue then we have to rethink how best to keep people as safe as possible. You have to remember we are in a reactive situation not proactive. We had all hoped the vaccines would make a massive difference which clearly they do but still too many people unvaccinated plus of course the Indian variant is more infectious who knows what’s round the corner, sadly no crystal ball. Everyone in the world in same position this isn’t unique to the UK!

Jayne Thorburn ● 1923d

Good point Jayne, deciding to fill the hospitals with COVID patients and spread cases across the wider workforce will help get the NHS going and the economy recovering no doubt.

John Hall ● 1923d

Jayne - we are the only country in the world with such a high infection rate and removing all restrictions. The rate is now expected to increase at a ever more alarming rate and Johnson and his supporters will blame the public for their neglect - the same public that last year were fighting over toilet rolls when there was no shortage as their initial response to the pandemic.

Stewart Jones ● 1923d

JT > "You have to remember we are in a reactive situation not proactive."This government intends to react to a known high risk (nightclubs and other places where large crowds gather) by putting in place mitigations (vaccine passports)... but not for ten weeks!It makes no sense whatsoever.

John Whitworth ● 1923d

We also are top for vaccinations and that is what’s makes a massive difference. We either stay in lockdown and destroy people’s mental health and businesses or through vaccinations we start living again, covid is here to stay. Most other countries don’t come close to our vaccinations rate so the only option they have is lockdown. Let’s pray more people, get vaccinated, infection rates hospitalisation stabilise, death remain low. If not then I fear more lockdowns ahead which is dreadful news for the majority of people.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1923d

And yet again during Prime Minister's Questions today, Johnson claimed that we could not have rolled out the vaccine programme under EU rules.  He keeps on repeating this, even although he knows that this is an out and out lie.“We have been able to authorise the supply of this vaccine using provisions under European law, which exist until 1 January,” said June Raine, the MHRA’s chief executive on 18 November 2020.So we have a prime minister who not only does not care about the truth, he doesn't care whether people (or at least people who bother to inform themselves) know he is lying.And Starmer does not pick him up on this outright and demonstrable lie.Why?And why do we put up with this government by gaslighting?

T P Howell ● 1923d

TPH! How do you know we would have got the vaccine when other EU members did not.

Janice Evans ● 1923d

And we would not have been able to do as many vaccine deals with different Companies.  We would have benn in limbo.

Janice Evans ● 1923d

It was not a matter of EU rules, it was the fact that Brussels decided that EU-wide contracting for vaccines was a good idea, discouraged member countries from placing their own orders, and then were slow in going about ordering, while the UK had got its vaccine orders in early. The EU was also later than the UK in approving particular vaccines for widespread use.

Richard Greenhough ● 1923d

Had forgot all that Richard, anyhow glad we left.

Janice Evans ● 1923d

And TPH, maybe Starmer can see truth in what he is saying and wanting Starmer to oppose everything is not going to gain any trust in him, he waselected at a difficult time same as Boris was was show them some support,personally wish they could work well together times are difficult enough.

Janice Evans ● 1923d

That is misrepresenting what happened and re-writing the EU approach and constraints. Nothing stopped individual EU countries buying whatever vaccine they wanted, whenever they wanted. Hungary bought the Russian vaccine. The EU did not. The UK, if in the EU still, could have made independent vaccine buying decisions.The EU has bought and issued all the different vaccines - Pfizer, AZ, Moderna. The principle difference in the EU approach was it wanted shared responsibility with the vaccine producers should there be health issues related to the vaccine. Rightly or wrongly the UK decided that was not important and rushed to buy vaccines with no conditions on the suppliers. True, the EU started 2-3 weeks later than the UK but has caught up fast. Then again, over the last week the UK infection rates have been about the same as the total combined EU infection rate.

Alan Clark ● 1923d

Alan, but would we have been waiting on the EU, the fact we left gavethe push to move fast which was in our favour.

Janice Evans ● 1923d

I should think that the EU is glad the UK has left. As has been pointed out, the EU went for an EU-wide purchasing as this would protect its smaller nations from the left out of the vaccine buying efforts. It is highly likely, if it had still been in the EU, that the UK would have ducked out of this approach and gone it alone. That would have caused much bad feeling across Europe and shown up the UK government as unsupportive of smaller EU nations.All of this is now immaterial as now that the vaccination efforts and supplies are fully underway there is increasingly little difference in the total percentage vaccinated. The problem is no longer supply but demand.Here there are two problems: misinformation and entrenched vaccination doubting. All governments should be focused on addressing this issue of the last 30-40% of the population who refuse to get vaccinated. And this should always have been the challenge - not needless bickering about supplies, who ordered first, etc.

Alan Clark ● 1923d

was TPH started this one.

Janice Evans ● 1923d

I could not help notice how quickly France rolled out a health passport. Needed for shops, cafes, and restaurants. I also notice the Border agency will not be checking inbound passengers covid documents as the airlines will have done it. 44104 new cases today and over 70 dead!!!!!

Nicholas Beard ● 1923d

Hmm we were told to expect 100k new cases.  There were 60k (cf 44k yesterday as per the post) on 15th July and 40 deaths.  But a few more exclamation marks on the forum are par for the course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

James Roy ● 1923d

I'm surprised it has not been required at Dentists.

Janice Evans ● 1923d

But you have always said that Johnson has done a splendid job. Are you now saying it could have been better?

Stewart Jones ● 1923d

Read it again Stewart.

Janice Evans ● 1922d