Forum Topic

Lunatics running the asylum

51,870 new cases highest since mid January and Sajid Javid wants to drop all restrictions - utter madness  !https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1463712/Covid-news-uk-cases-latest-delta-variant-freedom-day-lockdown-July-19-deaths-update

Loraine Pemberton ● 1928d88 Comments

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/January  Deaths 1225  Cases 40401  Tests 596,727July    Deaths 22    Cases 44013  Tests 1,177,716lies, damn lies, and statistics!

James Roy ● 1928d

Bloody hell - what are they doing ??? !

Helen Bamberger ● 1928d

'Boris Johnson pursuing Covid policy of mass infection that poses ‘danger to the world’, scientists warn. International experts convene emergency summit ahead of England’s unlocking.'https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-covid-scientists-warning-b1885305.html

Ken Munn ● 1928d

We get the government we deserve.

Alastair Banton ● 1928d

Are those statistics all of January and just a part of July?  We are only half way through July now!

Philippa Bond ● 1928d

You’re absolutely right. It’s not  just Javid, it’s Johnson, scared of his party and Javid.

Stewart Jones ● 1927d

no, one day in January, one day in July.

James Roy ● 1927d

I think a 'herd immunity' policy is being pursued. They're just not telling us about it.

Colin Jordan ● 1927d

And now Sajid has tested positive - good advert!

Vanessa Smith ● 1927d

Can anyone explain to me why the rest of the world isn't saying to us that they'll just ban anyone from the UK from entering their countries from 19th July onwards? That would seem like the sensible thing for them to do.It's a genuine question.

Simon Pedley ● 1927d

Vanessa, indeed he has but he and BoJo still want to remove the final safety precautions  - absolute idiots !

Loraine Pemberton ● 1927d

Yes, but for a long time it’s been obvious to many people, including members of the Tory party, that BJ is an idiot (and a liar) and completely unsuited to the role of Prime Minister and yet he got voted in by big majorities.  Surely there are lessons to be learned here, no?

Alastair Banton ● 1927d

Lessons to be learnt, absolutely. However, I sincerely hope that the populace of the UK are both community minded and considerate enough to take necessary precautions to stop the spread of Covid. But I doubt many will be.

Loraine Pemberton ● 1927d

SP: "Can anyone explain to me why the rest of the world isn't saying to us that they'll just ban anyone from the UK from entering their countries from 19th July onwards?"Some of them rely heavily on Britons to keep their tourist industry alive?Alternatively, it could just be incompetence on the part of their governments and/or the EU Commission, of the type which we are enduring here?

Richard Cathcart ● 1927d

I’m sure there are many who would never vote anything but Tory. They did not actually put a cross against BJ’s name and maybe they hoped he would rise to the occasion. We’ll have to wait until the next election to see if enlightenment has struck.

Vivienne Cox ● 1926d

Unless the truly dismal other parties get their act together, which they show no signs of doing, the Tories are in for decades, and they know it.  I am far from a Tory fan but would not be able to vote for the other parties in the dire straits they are in atm.  We desperately need strong, organised opposition parties that reflect the will of the people. We have none at all.

Claire Moran ● 1926d

"and yet he got voted in by big majorities."Actually Johnson's government was voted in with only 43% of the votes cast in December 2019. First-past-the-post sure ain't democracy.

Ken Munn ● 1926d

Agree Claire.

Janice Evans ● 1926d

People tell our parliament is the father of democracy. I think the Swiss with their constant referendums seems better.

Nicholas Beard ● 1926d

'I think the Swiss with their constant referendums seems better.'Average turnout for Swiss referenda is about 50%. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the concept. Bear in mind, too, that Swiss government is rather more cantonal than federal.

Ken Munn ● 1926d

What is the point of a hugely successful vaccination programme if not to allow us to get back to some form of normality? businesses need to thrive again, kids need education, students need uni and people need to socialise to save their mental health. Even though cases are up hospitalisations are relatively low with the majority needing 2/3 days before being released and even fewer need ICU, we can’t stay in lockdown forever and covid is here to stay. We are on a Greek island, 4 covid cases in hospital. We have met many people from across Europe and they say the same about their own country as we are saying  in the UK. Get vaccinated, be sensible/cautious get on with your life.

Jayne Thorburn ● 1926d

It's about keeping people out of the hospitals and not block beds. Hospital admissions are up about 1500 more from last week. That's the issue here. Or maybe some people on here think having lots of unvaccinated people with Covid blocking NHS hospital beds is a good thing?

Basil Finnis ● 1926d

Agree Jayne.

Janice Evans ● 1926d

You soon all forget that BJ the clown whatever you call him save your lives.

Janice Evans ● 1926d

No he didn't - it was the scientists, epidemiologists, virologists and the NHS that did that, along with all the care home workers,shop assistants, postmen, teachers and emergency services. Boris couldn't organise the proverbial in a brewery. But, he's good at taking the credit for other people's efforts. Your thinking is what got us this moron and his mates in power. Some people will never learn.

Vanessa Smith ● 1926d

Yes he did, he bough enough vaccine for everyone and you know it.

Janice Evans ● 1926d

You cannot give drugs you don't have it was BJ who save you.

Janice Evans ● 1926d

Well Done Boris 👏👏

Janice Evans ● 1926d

The real vaccines hero(ine) is Kate Bingham. Look her up, Janice.

Ken Munn ● 1926d

It was Kate Bingham, head of the vaccines taskforce, who was responsible for sourcing the vaccines. And she is the one to thank, not Johnson. He just likes to take the credit.

Iris Hill ● 1926d

Did Kate Bingham set up the Vacines Taskforce ? How did she get the job ? Did Boris have anything to do with both of the aforementioned  ?Also let's not forget she's a venture capitalist and SV probably did will out of it - yes or no ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 1926d

My thanks are to Boris 👏 anyone can thank who they like but at least be grateful in some way would be nice.

Janice Evans ● 1926d

Sorry, Janice, somehow I can't bring myself to thank him for allowing the UK to have the third highest Covid infections in the world including Brazil.

Claire Moran ● 1926d

That's up to you and up to me.

Janice Evans ● 1926d

ClaireI don't think that the infection rate is entirely down to Boris, some accountability is due to socially irresponsible people who wont get vaccinated or tested, not socially distancing and refusing to wear masks.

Loraine Pemberton ● 1926d

If only the PM were not human, but a celestrial being whose prescience knew no bounds.All would be free by now from infection and decease, all would be prosperous and who knows, maybe this messiah's influence could have redirected Bukayo Saca's penalty kick a little further away from the goalkeeper's left hand, with a touch more velocity.We could rename this keeper of no. 10 Captain Hindsight.

Denis I. Fox ● 1926d

'All would be free by now from infection and decease ...'Crikey, we'd all be dead!

Anne England ● 1926d

'All would be free by now from infection and decease ...'Doesn't that mean everyone would live for ever ? Might be a bit of a problem with overpopulation though.....

Richard Greenhough ● 1925d

I do think Johnson is really one of the very worst prime ministers that I have seen in my life time.  I’ve said why on this forum numerous times so I won’t repeat myself.  I would be intrigued to hear from his defenders and super-fans who they think has been worse and why?  Off the top of my head here are a few who I would say were significantly better - Attlee, Thatcher, Blair, Wilson, Major …  I could go on (and on).  And I can think of so many British people in public life today who could do a far better job than BJ.  (I’m sure we all can!)

Alastair Banton ● 1925d

Already a problem.Population growth this year so far, 44 million, (estimated)https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/Each emitting approx 1kg of co2 per day.Thats 16 million tonnes per annum, just from the additional breathing.....quite omitting the additional CO2 from all the other things necessary for life.A Boeing 747 emits about 500 tonnes of CO2 per trip.Do the maths!There are too many people on this earth, and too much breeding going on.Over to Michael Brown for a dystopian solution.

James Roy ● 1925d

As far as I am concerned, the worst PM in my lifetime (and indeed since Lord North) was Harold Wilson.

Richard Greenhough ● 1925d

Yes, you’re not alone in that assessment, but the social reforms carried out during his tenure are, IMO, an important legacy.  I search in vain for anything to admire in BJ.  It’s his waywardness with the truth that I find most damning.  Does that not concern you just a bit, Richard?

Alastair Banton ● 1925d

"I do think Johnson is really one of the very worst prime ministers that I have seen in my life time....I would be intrigued to hear from his defenders and super-fans who they think has been worse and why?"I would have said Theresa May was worse than BJ. Although the worst thing she did was when she was Home Secretary and sent the vans round London to intimidate people to leave the country.Whenever I was tempted to feel sorry for her, I just remembered the vans under "Operation Vaken" which had a distinctly far right ring to it. I'm not sure what TM achieved in her time - I'm just remembering the election campaign with the emphasis on fox hunting and other own goals.

Ed Saper ● 1925d

Please take time out to listen. Lawyers, barristers around the world are taking their gvts to court for war crimes. 

Jacqueline Lynch ● 1925d

I watched a couple of minutes of the video you posted , which was quite enough to see where it is coming from.And every time with this sort of "expert", I come back to the same question.That is, if "They" are so all powerful, so well organised and so well resourced etc and co-operating in just about every country in the world, incl sworn enemies like USA and Chine, how come they allow guys like your video expert to exist, never mind take court cases, never mind make videos?When  eg the Nazi's were formulating their plans to annihilate the Jews, Slavs, Roma and Gays etc, they first liquidated the intelligentsia, the political activists and the professionals, so as to preclude any opposition.(Though they probably left their equivalents of Michael Brown alone, since people all know a complete idiot when they see one)

Richard Cathcart ● 1925d

Alastair, there have been good P.Ms none you can compare to the same situation BJ has had to deal with and doubt very much he would have wanted the job in hindsight, however he has stuck with it and in a diresituation has been fair (that is my opinion) and as well as being ill has justgot on with it and no one could predict the future but what he and others achieve in a year was amazing.  The deaths have been horrendous and wehave lost friends to Covid and to be fair it's ridiculous to blame anyone forDeaths during a pandemic.

Janice Evans ● 1925d

In the same way that it’s right and proper to praise and reward people who have done a good job during the pandemic - health care workers etc - it is equally proper to analyse where mistakes have been made, to learn from those mistakes and in some cases to lay blame.  A problem with Johnson is that he has repeatedly delayed taking firm action (prompt lockdown), against scientific recommendations, and failed to take strict action against cronies who have broken Covid rules.  And there’s no getting away from the fact that the UK has some of the world’s worst Covid stats.  So many other world leaders who of course were equally in a ‘unique’ position have managed to do a better job than our own PM.  You can make excuses and defend him all you like but the simple truth is that in the larger scheme of things he’s not a very good leader.  (But possibly a class above Teresa May as Ed has suggested.)

Alastair Banton ● 1925d

The cases of Covid you speak of are now the variants which will probablynot be fatal to those with 2 vacs, so although the spread is increasing thethreat is less so believe he is doing the right thing, that is just my opinionand would hope the younger generation will take up the vaccination, thereare walk in centres so no excuses that you have not been called up for a jab.

Janice Evans ● 1925d

No Janice, I’m not just speaking about recent cases and what Johnson is doing right now (surely you can see that?) I am talking about the cases from the start of the pandemic up to the present.  If you were to do the same, look at the government’s actions and record without prejudice, you might generously come to the conclusion ‘could do better’.  Of course you are entitled to your opinion but at present it does seem a bit disconnected from reality.

Alastair Banton ● 1925d

I think that in their dealing with the pandemic, no government on Earth can honestly say that they couldn't have done better at some stage in their response. Even those countries that are physically distanced from their neighbours, such as Australia and New Zealand, are still having outbreaks and are behind with their vaccination programmes.

Richard Greenhough ● 1925d

Thank you for the truism, Richard.

Alastair Banton ● 1925d

'I think that in their dealing with the pandemic, no government on Earth can honestly say that they couldn't have done better at some stage in their response.'Yes, that is true - up to a point, but also many have learned from the mistakes that were inevitably made, just today the Netherlands P.M. has admitted to getting it wrong by opening up too quickly. But Johnson continues to blunder on in the face of a lot of evidence that a tsunami of infections is upon us. Yes, we have to face things at some point, but from a mere observer going from restrictions to almost nothing restrictive at all seems bloody ridiculous. Like everyone else I just want to see my friends and be able to go for a meal, or go to the flicks, but I also get it that there are many who are still vulnerable, and having played by all the rules for so long I really don't feel inclined to throw the baby out with the bathwater now. As for all these barmy and confusing rules on travel - does anyone understand them? I cannot think of anyone worse than Johsnon and his gang of bootlickers to be trusted with our safety.

Vanessa Smith ● 1925d

"I cannot think of anyone worse than Johnson and his gang of bootlickers to be trusted with our safety."Have you already forgotten who the Labour Party offered as its candidate for PM at the last general election ?

Richard Greenhough ● 1925d

'Have you already forgotten who the Labour Party offered as its candidate for PM at the last general election ?'Irrelevant 'what aboutery' yet again!

Vanessa Smith ● 1925d

As a straight response to your statement that you couldn't think of anyone worse, claiming it to be irrelevant whataboutery is a politician's way of trying to change the subject and get out of a hole of their own making. I note that you don't actually dispute the fact that there is someone who would have done a lot worse.

Richard Greenhough ● 1925d

No Richard, it is you who are being evasive.  This thread is about the competence or lack of it in of our present government.  I note that you have so far made no effort to actually defend Johnson’s record which makes me think you are well aware of mistakes he has made.  First you issued the truism that all governments wish they could have done better and now you irrelevantly imply that Corbyn would have done worse.  Maybe, maybe not, but it’s irrelevant. Here’s a strange thing.  Those of us on the left generally seem relaxed about owning up to leadership failures.  I always admitted that Corbyn was not a great leader and I now concede that Starmer has some way to go and on another thread I would be happy to go into more detail.  Why can’t you Tories, just for once, take some criticisms on the chin?Anyway for what it’s worth I don’t believe Corbyn and a Labour government would have screwed up to the extent that our present government has.  For one thing the press would never have given them such a free ride as the Mail/Express/ Sun/Telegraph have granted BJ and co so they would have been forced to take more care.

Alastair Banton ● 1925d

Richard, don't be silly. You know perfectly well that Vanessa was comparing the performance of Johnson's government to that of other governments grappling with Covid. You presumably realised as well that hers was a rhetorical statement, which, with your usual nit-picking pedantry, you chose to interpret literally. Your reference to Corbyn was indeed mere whataboutery. Barring the administrations of Trump, Bolsonaro and Orban, there aren't many governments of major Westerm countries with a worse response to the Covid crisis than Johnson's.

Robert Fish ● 1925d

Alastair if we are happy with this Government we are entitled to say so,right or left don't really come into it, I'm happy with how I voted and nevervote for years.  You like your daily dig at the Tory Party, well if it keeps you happy carry on but we don't all agree.

Janice Evans ● 1925d

You’re missing the point, Janice (again).  Nobody, least of all me, is wanting to deny you the right to express your opinion but opinions without any sort of back up - why you believe this, why you disagree with that - is really quite boring so unless and until you come up with something of the kind I’m bowing out of this exchange.

Alastair Banton ● 1925d

Alastair you mostly moan about the same things over and over so we cannot keep replying with a different answer every day.

Janice Evans ● 1925d

It might just be me - but I don't understand your reply,"I'm happy with how I voted and nevervote for years."Bloody hell, no wonder we got Johnson with that sort of logic. As for Richard - I agree with Alastair, the mainly right wing press would have flayed Corbyn alive for buggering up to the extent that Johnson's crew has. But it IS irrelevant - and we on the left do see the mistakes, it's learning the lesson from them that counts, not pretending that they never happened.

Vanessa Smith ● 1925d

How many more times can I say this to get through.....I'm happy withThis Government and have never regret voting for them.  When you don'tlike someThing Vanessa you always say you don't understand..... good get out.

Janice Evans ● 1925d

Robert, which bit of "I cannot think of anyone worse than Johsnon and his gang of bootlickers to be trusted with our safety" do you not understand ? Nothing about other governments mentioned there, nothing rhetorical, just Vanessa having her usual dig at the present government. Hence my response to her statement implying that I could think of someone worse and that her memory is somewhat selective. If you can't follow that, then it is you who is being silly.

Richard Greenhough ● 1925d

I reckon the Grauniad, Mirror, Independent and Star have all had a pretty good go at the government for its handling of the pandemic, just as the Telegraph, Mail and Express would have had a go at a Labour government had one been in power.

Richard Greenhough ● 1925d

Unlike you, Richard, I understood Vanessa's comment in context. I suspect you too understood the context, but deliberately chose to ignore it for the purposes of argument. You continue to demonstrate your bargain basement sophistry.

Robert Fish ● 1925d

I am not fluent in gibberish - explain this, it's nonsense. I get you are happy - lucky you, but what does your statement - below - mean? I'm happy with how I voted and nevervote for years.

Vanessa Smith ● 1925d

You just see what you want to see, Janice.  In fact I rarely contribute to political threads these days let alone say the same things.  You won’t find me on the Hancock or Taking the Knee threads for example.  Glancing back at my recent postings they have been about will-writing recommendations, football, restaurant recommendations, local history and defending someone against racism accusations.

Alastair Banton ● 1925d

"I understood Vanessa's comment in context."Robert, I don't think you did. At the very least her comment was open to interpretation. Perhaps Vanessa could make herself clearer in future ?

Richard Greenhough ● 1925d

Vanessa, I had not vote for many years and to be honest just wantedBrexit, it wasn't because I especially wanted Boris as leader apart fromthe fact there was no alternative...was there.  However have not beendissapointed yet fighting a pandemic must be the worse thing any P.Mcould face.

Janice Evans ● 1925d

Really Richard - don't be so deliberately obtuse.

Vanessa Smith ● 1925d

Really, Vanessa - don't leave yourself open to interpretation.

Richard Greenhough ● 1925d

LP > "... utter madness  !"Johnson is so concerned about the risk posed by nightclubs and other places where large crowds gather that he is going to mandate proof of vaccination as a condition of entry.But no need to rush - it can wait for a couple of months or so.That's just plain stupid.

John Whitworth ● 1925d

I agree we need a policy for crowded events, nightclubs etc, double vaccinated or negative PCR test. Other European countries are doing it so message is get vaccinated when you can. This is last for at least another year if not longer!

Jayne Thorburn ● 1925d

"agree we need a policy for crowded events, nightclubs etc, double vaccinated or negative PCR test"Is that even a vague possibility or a contradiction in terms ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 1925d

John it will take that long for them to get 2 vaccines.

Janice Evans ● 1925d

JE > "John it will take that long for them to get 2 vaccines."In which case such risky venues should remain closed until the vaccination programme is sufficiently advanced.

John Whitworth ● 1925d

Exactly Janice. You’ve identified the problem with ‘Freedom Day’.

Kerry Chandler ● 1925d

It's Johnson's 'Freedom Day'. He's locked up and Sunak can't eat out.Meanwhile the Heath Secretary has the plague.You couldn't make it up.

Ken Munn ● 1924d

😂😂😂 no such thing as freedom day until the world figures out how to deal with Mr Covid he rules right now 🥺🥺🥺

Jayne Thorburn ● 1924d

Absolutely right, Jayne, and yet here we are. Up until the end of last week our Prime Minister was planning to make a Freedom Day address. I think that’s Ken’s point about the irony of this mess.

Kerry Chandler ● 1924d

Continue as you have and stay safe lots still wearing masks and beingsensible.

Janice Evans ● 1924d

Yep, will do, and I’m permanently drenched in sanitizer. My one smells like gin, even through my mask, but so be it. I was on the tube and buses today and most people still had masks on, even in this heat, so that was encouraging.

Kerry Chandler ● 1924d

Dr. Says Vaccinated Are Permanently DamagedOr:https://153news.net/watch_video.php?v=8HMBYA6M42DH

Michael Brown ● 1920d

So are you saying you were vaccinated some while back, Michael ?

Richard Greenhough ● 1920d

MIchael, we were made aware of the risks, also that we won't be infecting others if we have the jab.

Janice Evans ● 1920d

Doctors for Covid EthicsOr:https://doctors4covidethics.org/about/

Michael Brown ● 1919d

Once again, MCB prefers to post links rather than answer questions.

Richard Greenhough ● 1919d

Same as Jacqueline, expect it's a lot to relay to everyone but as most ofus have had jabs and now have internal bleeding it's a little late, whywe are all still here is the big mystery.

Janice Evans ● 1919d