Forum Topic

Impersonators/forgers on this forum ?

A poster, for the sake of argument let's call him John Smith comes along and posts an objectionable message, A while later another poster comer along "I've known John Smith for years, he's a very nice chapthis sort of post is really not like him at all."And so it goes on. "I never knew John Smith was like this".And yet nowhere does it seem to have ocurred to anyone that is might not be the real John Smith posting at all, but somebody impersonating him.Basically if someone starts posting messages whichare totally untypical of them, surely that should be the first question anyone should ask.And now it appears another dubious character, has turned up posting a similarly objectionable message.michael adams

Michael Adams ● 1934d18 Comments

Agree Michael, I'm ignoring those posts.

Janice Evans ● 1934d

It's pretty easy Michael to identify a troll.Going back to the thread started by JC, on that thread there are 2 posters (as I'm aware the only 2 contributors) who personally/professionally knew/know the poster outside of this forum, through their previous positions as a Hounslow Councillor and a Hounslow officer.Through that direct knowledge, both of those posters were not entirely surprised to see JC posting something derogatory about the English at a time of English celebrations.  Which firmly remains in my view the sole context behind his initial posting on that that.As an Englishman I don't particularly like how some Scots are like that, but I'm equally ashamed by how a significant minority of the English use sport as a cover for their right wing views, as do some Italians, Hungarians etc.As for Janice's comment, to be honest the "I'm staying out of anything controversial" logic is something I simply don't understand.  If we can discuss controversial subjects and respect differing views and interpretations, and instead can only have 'nice' conversations about 'safe' subjects, and few people dare post for being accused of being racist etc., then to me you're heading towards a completely fake/false society.If people read my posts and think "he's defending a racist" then quite frankly that's their problem not mine, but it also shows how they find it easier to jump to ridiculous conclusions then stepping back to actually consider the context of the original post.I don't see how anyone can label JC as being racist because he singled out someone because of their skin colour, whilst failing to acknowledge that by the same logic BLM has to, in itself, be a racist movement, because it is about a skin colour too.I fully support the basic principle of BLM, but in the same way I find the far right totally objectionable the same goes to the far left, and there are elements of the BLM movement that are equally troubling.  Would I take the knee ? - I honestly don't know, I'd feel a pressure to take the knee because everyone else is doing, but to me in doing so I'd feel that I wasn't being true to myself in suggesting (by taking the knee) that I support all aspects of the BLM movement.If people immediately jump to the conclusion that someone not taking the knee means they are racist, then to me that says far more about the people who is jumping to the conclusion and how blinkered and narrow minded they are, then it does about the person not taking the knee.

Adam Beamish ● 1934d

Yep agree, also quite easy to identify apologists for racism trying to cover their backs on here. 

John Hall ● 1934d

You really don't get it, do your Adam ?Regardless of what anyone else may, or may not do or say, anyone singling out someone simply because of the colour of their skin is being racist...by definition.The fact that there may be much worse racists out their or that people may be being hypocritical in some of their views simply cannot alter the fundamental fact that anyone singling out someone simply because of the colour of their skin is being racist.It really is as simple as that I'm afraid,  michael adams

Michael Adams ● 1934d

So surely you are also saying that Black Lives Matters is a racist movement because it is a movement based on skin colour ?.Because to me you can't have it both ways.

Adam Beamish ● 1934d

Adam I thought it possibly a scam post and the only reason I may ignoresome of them.  Skin colour is mention about many, Trump was often targetfor his skin colour.I never realise about the racism in football so glad I don't watch it, maybefew last minutes of a final and that's it.

Janice Evans ● 1934d

Adam Beamish asked" So surely you are also saying that Black Lives Matters is a racist movement"Adam as I just pointed out -Regardless of what anyone else may, or may not do or say, myself included, anyone singling out someone simply because of the colour of their skin is being racist...by definition.As to your point. BLM isn't racist and further it isn't a movement based on skin colour (not that that need be relevant); as you'd appreciate if you'd seen news coverage  of any of the demonstrations in bothhere in UK, and the US. Its the very fact that police forces in the US are perceived as shooting a disproportionate number of innocent black people, which leads to the almost inevitable consequence that its those wholly innocentblack people who otherwise would be in most danger of being shot by the police, who will be the main focus of attention.michael adams...

Michael Adams ● 1934d

Surely saying a movement called 'Black Lives Matter' isn't based on skin colour is like saying the Women's Institute isn't about women ?.

Adam Beamish ● 1934d

Adam Beamish asked" Surely saying a movement called 'Black Lives Matter' isn't based on skin colour is like saying the Women's Institute isn't about women ?."'Black Lives Matter' refers to those people who US police forces are most likely to shoot without reason.Who co-incidentally all happen to be black.Whereas if instead they turned their attention to Bring and Buy Sales or jam competitions who's to say what might happen ? "Womens Institute Memebers Lives Matter" maybe ?michael adams...

Michael Adams ● 1934d

'Trump was often targetfor his skin colour.'Well, he was orange!Racism in football is hardly anything new, come to that neither is homophobia and both are to be deplored. If/when these thick morons who perpetrate this behaviour are identified they should be banned from ever going near a football match again, and named and shamed. Certainly the F.A., P.F.A. etc. could and should do a lot more than they are, which seems to be totally ineffectual.

Vanessa Smith ● 1934d

Difference being Dopey Donald chose his skin colour.

Keith Iddon ● 1934d

To me, one of the aims of the BLM movement is to try and point out the inequality of treatment that of Blacks in the US and the resultant higher likelihood of dying, compared to their White compatriots; and by raising the profile and awareness of this inequality of treatment, trying to force a change of mind set that levels out the ‘how you are treated’ playing field.Is that racist? Well if racism can be perceived as sometimes being positive, then yes it’s racist, but my view is that racism is a negative attribute and something to be despised, which is why I don’t consider the BLM movement as racist.And (IMHO) that’s what some of the people who say replace BLM with A(ll)LM don’t get. Of course all lives matter, but by removing or not acknowledging the BLM movement you are simply choosing to ignore or downplay the continuing inequality of treatment of blacks in some places in the world.

Andrew Jones ● 1934d

Really, thought it was from his Scottish roots as some have that colouring, and my partner is half Scot so not being unkind, although he's not the same colour as Trump, he has darkish hair and colour.

Janice Evans ● 1934d

Donald Trump is orange because he wears tons of make up which runs down his sweaty face every time he goes anywhere warm.  His hands are orange from using self tan and if he wears golf shorts his legs are done also.  That is why all the jokes about his skin colour because no one really knows what it is.  Right up to recently Irish people mainly men died in police custody in this country a lot.  Had there been an Irish lives Matter movement at the time it would have been free to anyone who supports its aims which would be to say "hey society Irish people are being treated unfairly here help us"  And that is what BLM are saying all over the world now "hey wake up black people are being treated unjustly in comparison to white people in the same situations and it is wrong"  And it is not racist just because the title mentions Black lives nor would it be sexist if the title was women's lives so please stop trying to make it so.  If I could take the knee I would do it every day and twice on Sunday.  It's about respect for people who can be shot to death inside their homes after family called the police for a welfare check. Where a white person in the same situation is not only not shot they are helped and taken to hospital. We must change the perceptions we have if we want a more inclusive society.  And one of those perceptions is Black Lives Matter is a fact but not respected by the state and it's judiciary.  If you believe BLM is racist then you really have missed the point the boat and a heck of a lot of really good people in your life. IMHO

Caroline Carney ● 1933d

Sometimes it is hard to know what someone's real views are until they one day reveal them.  Someone who has now been banned seemed to be viewed by many as a butter-wouldn't melt poor little victim type of character until they showed themselves to be a fervent Trump supporter - and was banned for using offensive language on the forum.  On the other hand, there is a long-time regular on here whose speciality is calling just about everyone racist, whether they have any evidence or not, been going on for years.

Claire Moran ● 1933d

This is the very post that triggers arguments because you brought the angle in about fervent Trump supporters. I for one, am a Trump supporter but not all Trump supporters are argumentative or impersonators as you seem to relay in your message. Sadly, it’s the liberal left that has ruined America and the UK and most parts of the developed world sadly with their anyone can sponge from us at any cost policy and the nappy changing man-bag mentality is what the left is all about - control. So please don’t use politics to assume that Trump supporters are or may possibly be impersonators/forgers!

Carl Johns ● 1933d

You completely missed the point I was making, Carl. Suggest you read my post again.

Claire Moran ● 1933d

Caroline,I totally get the point you and others are making, and I thought Andrew's post yesterday was an excellent one.My posts have never been about whether I think BLM is a racist movement or not, I was merely making the point that if someone is singled out because of their skin colour, gender, disability or such like is an "ist" than fundamentally an organisation or movement that has is directed towards a specific group must also be the same, regardless of whether that is a good thing or a bad thing.If we're going to have a mixed panel of analysts and commentators covering sports then that's fine, but strictly speaking then when Sky are showing a womens netball match then there should someone male either in the studio or commentating (I have no idea if there is BTW).  But I don't want a TV channel to feel obliged to have one member of the opposite sex to everyone else on the panel for fear of being labelled as being sexist, as though that person is present just as a 'token' gesture.  I couldn't care less if the 2 guests and presenter on HIGHFY are all male or all female, I'm only interested in whether they are funny or not, but we all know you'll never see another episode of HIGNFY where everyone is male, and if HIGNFY was starting out now there's no way it would have a permanent male presenter and 2 male team captains as it did back in 1990 (similarly with Question of Sport).  Many would say that it's more representative, it is progress and so forth, again I totally get that, but sometimes I feel it is solely done as a tokenist gesture, which to me isn't progress at all.You say you would take the knee as often as you could, and your reasoning, and I totally get that and am in total agreement with what you and others say about how it is totally unacceptable for a vastly disproportionate number of black people being killed by the police.Although it's a completely different issue, my concerns about taking the knee reflect my approach to voting (and some other subjects).  I very rarely vote because I can't bring myself to vote for a political party when some of their policies are ones I don't concur with.  The Euro referendum was something I was entirely comfortable to vote about because it was a single issue vote and I was in no doubt which side I supported.What I don't like about your post is the suggestion that if I believe BLM is racist then I've missed a lot of really good people in my life.  To say that to a complete stranger whose life, personality and social circle you know absolutely nothing about mystifies me. I'd say (and I've heard many people say this about me) I have a far more "open" mindset than many people, and one of my strongest personal and professional skills is the ability to recognise different perspectives - dogmatic is a word that could never be applied to me (unless some posters on this forum).It's like with humour, I'm in the camp that feels that pretty much anything can be the subject of humour, including insensitive and offensive subjects.  Like South Park and Isaac Hayes, when having happily taken the biscuit out of every religion and pretty much everything else for 10+ years Isaac Hayes suddenly said "oh no I won't do an episode where Scientology is being ripped apart because I'm part of that group" - that's when I have an issue with such people for being such hypocrites.

Adam Beamish ● 1933d