Forum Topic

Kew Retail Park sold to property developers

Anyone else sad about this ?

Madeleine Hazard ● 1966d75 Comments

Yes, very 😢

Loraine Pemberton ● 1966d

Me too! It is always packed so will be missed.

Tracy Jenkins ● 1966d

Horrid place, it's time was gone.

John Hall ● 1966d

> Horrid place, it's time was gone.Gosh, I guess some people just want to see all the shops close and lots of people to lose their jobs, simply to satisfy their ideology.

Russell Pearson ● 1966d

who owns the freehold, anybody know?

Mairi Franses ● 1966d

Only half the retail park has been sold.  The sale does not include M&S who own their part of the site.  It remains to be seen whether M&S continue to trade there if the other shops are replaced by housing.

Richard Jennings ● 1966d

We have used this retail park many times - having two young children made it a very convenient stop for kids clothes, various items from Boots, and of course clothing and food from M&S, TK Max, etc. We know many people from Kew, Chiswick and even Richmond that use it regularly. Anyone suggesting its time 'was gone' (sic), is a bloody idiot...

Mark Edwards ● 1966d

Shop local, support your highstreet, numpty.

John Hall ● 1966d

I went there twice in 20 years. Always thought it would be a good location for a West London remake of Dawn of the Dead. Forum responses so far are reinforcing my thoughts on the matter.

Paul Campbell ● 1966d

Large Mothercare, now Sports shop, TK Max, Gap, Next, large Boots, M&S clothing and food. Free parking. As Mark says, very useful with young kids in tow. Funny enough us numpties also use more local shops.....strange eh.

Nick Jenkins ● 1966d

Except, Paul, you chose to boycott local shops. I'm guessing you have everything delivered to your LTN then.

David Lesniak ● 1965d

Transpontine shopping by Chiswickians. Whatever next?

Ken Munn ● 1965d

Is it only cyclists that don’t like it. Do they hate the free parking that motorists enjoy? It’s the most civilised place to shop. Wish they’d had a better public transport option, my only complaint

Maggie Dodge ● 1965d

They want people to use shops, and a by product of this is employment. Kew is popular, so why close it? It's not joined up thinking.

Nicholas Beard ● 1965d

Yes very sad. It’s great for shopping  if you are elderly or disabled as you can park easily.  It too far to walk anywhere.

Alina Dansord ● 1965d

Capitalism at work.Other uses generate more return per square foot than retail with car parking.

Michael Robinson ● 1965d

Agree it’s not completely without redemption. I once saw Michael Portillo there. But all my other memories are bad. I once went into that M&S, it was like something out of the Soviet era. I thought everyone knew out of town shopping centres were a huge planning disaster and destroyed town centres across the country.

John Hall ● 1965d

To have the parking was a bonus.

Janice Evans ● 1965d

Thanks Nick! We do indeed use local shops. Not as much as before, it has to be said, now that it is near impossible to drive to Waitrose, M&S, etc. The free parking at Kew is a bonus, and makes for a handy stop off on the way back from somewhere else - when doing big family shops, one needs to be able to use a car, despite what some locals would have us believe.

Mark Edwards ● 1965d

"Is it only cyclists that don’t like it. Do they hate the free parking that motorists enjoy?"Normal people don't hate other people based on their mode of transport - I think the poster may be projecting somewhat!  The majority of the visits I've done to Kew Retail are by car - I liked going there mainly because it is so empty most of the time.  Which is great if you don't like crowds of people and queues, but not so great for the stores.I was there on the weekend and went by bike.  From Chiswick you can get there via the Wellesley Quiet Way, then C9, over the bridge on the shared pedestrian/bike route and then a lovely off-road route via Thames Path directly to the retail park.My M&S haul included beer, prosecco & soda water (for 2019 throwback Aperol Spritzes!) and dinner - and I didn't have to queue in the street as I saw people doing earlier on CHR.  I felt nothing but brotherly love for my fellow shoppers, regardless of whether they'd arrived on foot, by bike, car or public transport!

Ed Saper ● 1965d

It likely doesn't make economic sense however.Some back of the envelope sums... 550 car parking spaces, say 60% average occupancy, average stay 1 hour, so 330 people an hour (yes, cars could have multiple people but assume one of them is actually spending money).That is about the same as the number of people who could be carried in about half a dozen buses or less than half of the capacity of a single District line train.All that space for so few people doesn't seem to stack up compared to a high street location.  Particularly given declining car ownership in London.And from a developer perspective, I assume the per square foot value of residential is more than retail with a large car park that doesn't generate much money in itself.

Michael Robinson ● 1965d

Apologies if I offended Ed. I just couldn’t  understand anyone knocking Kew Retail. It’s an absolute gem. Lovely choice of shops and free parking. You’re right too no one should be judged on their choice of transport.

Maggie Dodge ● 1965d

I agree Maggie!  On both counts :-)Kew is great, but every time I went there I could tell, with sadness, that it probably wasn't going to last.  Just too big and too empty.However, I hope its demise may give local stores in Chiswick and Kew a boost.

Ed Saper ● 1965d

They might have been better off putting the shops on top of a one or two level car park and more shops where the ground-level parking is. Although I suspect the planners might have had a hand in limiting the height of the buildings.

Richard Greenhough ● 1965d

I love how Michael is making summations without taking into account the recent (ongoing) pandemic and how it has impacted retail. It comes as no surprise his final analysis is parking bad.I'd've thought the opportunity would've been to modernize the entirety of the site creating a town centre type development with paid parking like any other place these days. Perhaps a smaller amount of retail space, flats above, metered parking on the square type scenario. I was surprised to see just how much recent development there was behind this site as well. Surely there would then be enough density once a new vision was completed to sustain almost the same amount of shops, if not the size some of them are.

David Lesniak ● 1965d

Construction of multi-level car parking would obviously be more expensive and the actual retail offering on the site hardly justifies a premium price to park and pay for this.Next, M&S, Sports Direct, TK Maxx, Costa, Gap, Boots... all available elsewhere in the area in locations with far more choice.It is basically just the equivalent of a strip mall in a US suburb.  The only thing missing was a drive through taco or fried chicken joint.  It may work on the outskirts of Kansas City where everyone drives everywhere but not in an area of high value land.

Michael Robinson ● 1965d

Michael, maybe you should brush up on your Americana. The model mentioned of a town square is what would work best in a location such as this. In denser areas like New Jersey, you would see old strip malls repurposed as town squares, some with newly added residential. The city version would be to have metered parking. I can't think of anyplace with free parking. Maybe 30-minute stop and shop, but that could also apply. That said, 30-minute isn't everywhere, either. Our customers must pay for parking whereas customers for businesses on TGT and DR do not. Not really a level playing field is it?Now I know I'm not a cycling advocate who knows nothing about town planning, but I am someone who has studied it my entire life who has a brother-in-law whose business it is to develop these types of shopping centers as well as a friend of someone who was involved with the regeneration of Brentford so its always fun to learn from them.

David Lesniak ● 1965d

I agree with Maggie too. I love the KRP and often stop there on my way back from the Gardens. I shall really miss it if it goes. Pre-pandemic, it was usually pretty busy.The original planning restrictions were tight, I think. M&S  were told initially that they couldn't have a food hall and had to lobby to get that remedied later which I suspect they did by threatening to leave.

Susan Kelly ● 1965d

Kew, just like poor bloody Brentford, needs yet more flats like they need a hole in their collective heads.

Vanessa Smith ● 1965d

So will it just be M &S and blocks of flats?

Maggie Dodge ● 1965d

MichaelI regularly drive to Kew Retail Park to do a big shop at M&S for food and clothing, I'll also shop at Next, TK Max and Boots, thus able to get everything I need in a short car journey out and back.Of course I could walk to M&S Chiswick and buy clothes etc online which having tried them on may involve going through the hassle of returning them, however that would involve even more use of motorised vehicles and quite a few transport journeys - tell me what's your solution for that ? At every step you appear to want to stop people from having a choice of how and where they shop, why is that ?As for your comment assuming that only one person in a multi occupied car will spend money - have you never heard of 'impulse buying' ?As for your last paragraph, you really haven't thought that through...

Loraine Pemberton ● 1965d

Hard to see M&S staying if there are no other shops there.

Susan Kelly ● 1965d

Blimey Ed, you felt brotherly love from fellow shoppers regardless of transport mode. Very different then from what you get on this forum ?!

Chris Vessey ● 1965d

I don't know USA that well, but I've spent a lot of time touring strip malls in Canada, and Kew really reminded me of them.Swap Costa for Tim Hortons, Boots for Shoppers Drug Mart and M&S For Whole Foods or Loblaw and this wouldn't look out of place in Toronto or Mississauga.When we did store visits, these types of mall were only 5-10 minutes drive away from each other, many with the same stores and same architecture.There were all fairly soulless retail destinations - while I quite liked Kew, it isn't somewhere I'd like to hang out or meet someone for coffee.Canada is a bit bigger than the UK - actually just Ontario is 4 times the size of UK, so they've got the space to build these (although I wish they wouldn't build so many!)

Ed Saper ● 1965d

Surely you know by now that it is only 'entitled' cyclists who are the objects of derision and loathing in equal measure.

N V Brooks ● 1965d

EdBut your recent visits have been during the pandemic. Pre pandemic whenever I went Kew Retail Park was always busy and car park was 75/95% full

Loraine Pemberton ● 1965d

The way this is heading there will be substantially more residential than retail in our communities, is that a positive step that's beneficial for local and national communities ? Will the increase in residential with reduced 'real' shopping amenities as opposed to virtual online shopping be a benefit or detrimental to building strong interactive  communities ?Going out to shop means you meet people, shopping online stops social interaction. We need to think long and hard about permitting multi story developments, think isolated communities, that consume retail opportunities where people can meet and build relationships.

Loraine Pemberton ● 1965d

Joining local volunteer groups is where I've made most local friends and contacts while also helping to build a strong connected community - not while food or clothes shopping. Groups such as the NCT, Contact the Elderly, Abundance, Age Concern, CHAS, the local Ward Forum, PTAs, Chiswick Pier Trust - just to name a few active groups in Chiswick that rely on volunteers - I know there are plenty more! All these are great for helping people to feel they are part of our community.

Angela Peel ● 1965d

Thanks for your input Angela, however is it not essential to be inclusive ? The problem with new high rise developments is their inability to reach the wider community ? Not everyone is  as proactive as you.

Loraine Pemberton ● 1965d

I don't think N V Brookes was saying that Chris! Actually the opposite :-)

Ed Saper ● 1965d

Would love to shop local, but, oh yeah, cycle lanes, LTN’s and traffic jams make it a rather somewhat unappealing option.

Madeleine Hazard ● 1965d

Ed, it was quite lucid to me. However what is your take on what he said please. Misunderstandings on this and any other forum are very troublesome.

Chris Vessey ● 1965d

I will be surprised if the development is high rise. Much more likely to be a mix of low rise flats and town houses.The landowners were, no doubt, not only looking at the level of trading now but what they project it to be in the future.With a growing anti car movement and sharply growing on line  purchasing it is not to difficult to understand some of the thinking behind why they are repurposing  the land for housing.

Adrian Irving ● 1965d

I will be surprised if the development is high rise. Much more likely to be a mix of low rise flats and town houses.The landowners were, no doubt, not only looking at the level of trading now but what they project it to be in the future.With a growing anti car movement and sharply growing on line  purchasing it is not to difficult to understand some of the thinking behind why they are repurposing  the land for housing.

Adrian Irving ● 1965d

The developers will be able to convert the shops into flats without planning permission.

Mairi Franses ● 1965d

He was being sarcastic - putting "entitled" in inverted commas :-)I think he was saying that it is silly to suggest that cyclists are entitled when it is the drivers who assume they deserve 100% of the roads.His hyperbole about "cyclists who are the objects of derision and loathing in equal measure" suggests that the way this forum sometimes characterises cyclists isn't warranted.I saw you've got into a couple of scraps over the last week and I think it has knocked the sheen off your usual cheery disposition :-)

Ed Saper ● 1965d

Ah, true to form, the monotone sense of humour bypass kicks in.

N V Brooks ● 1965d

Nigel, it's fair to say you are a bit of a prig.

Carl Wynne ● 1965d

That is,without doubt, the nicest thing you have said about me or was prig a tryping impediment?

N V Brooks ● 1965d

I don't believe I have ever said anything about you before, prig will fit the bill.

Carl Wynne ● 1965d

Excellent, confirms my own view. Always good to get independent approbation.

N V Brooks ● 1965d

How things change over the years.I believe that the site was once occupied by the Chrysler Motor Company...and when the closed some 60 years ago...a miscellaneous selection of companies occupied the buildings ..including Stenors who produced lead wheel weights for the Motor Industry..and they were in turn taken over by GKN.

Jim Lawes ● 1965d

...vaguely bemused that many Chiswickians - all to ready to mourn the death of Chiswick's own High Road shopping - seem upset that a competing out-of-town-centre shopping location should be threatened with closure?

Ken Munn ● 1964d

KenI'll give you a clue... think Clothes and Shoes

Loraine Pemberton ● 1964d

Just to provide an 'anorak' response to Mairi's point about developers being able to convert the units at Kew Retail Park to residential without requiring planning permission, that won't be the case, as there'll be a condition imposed on the original permission restricting what the units can be used for, and such conditions 'trump' prior approval permitted development rights.Personally as it was closer to me than M&S in Chiswick I'd often walk to/from M&S at Kew Retail with a big rucksack and carry stuff home - it wasn't that unusual at rush hour and weekends for traffic on the South Circ to be tailing back from Kew Bridge beyond the Retail Park junction.Still baffles me, generally speaking, how tied to their cars most Londoners are given how slow journeys are, and presumably only getting slower.  As others have alluded to the New London Plan (and before we get political let's remember that the Conservatives had final say on the London Plan, so it's not all about Khan) is very anti-car.

Adam Beamish ● 1964d

Ed, yes you are probably right, bile is very prominent currently, and is unfortunate and so unnecessary too. Best wishes and I shall cheer up !

Chris Vessey ● 1964d

NV Brooks. Not really I misunderstood your post. Apologies for that. I shall go in search of my sense of humour, it possibly fell off into a ditch on one of my bike rides. God it could be anywhere.

Chris Vessey ● 1964d

For me, the 'joy' of Kew Retail Park is the number of disabled parking spaces meaning that I can actually get to a Boots and, knowing the layout, park near to the relevant part of M&S to shop without too much pain from walking. I could of course do it all online but would totally miss both the 'inspirational browse' and the social interaction.

N V Brooks ● 1964d

Adam, what's the latest on 'automatic' permission to convert shops to residential.The last I heard was if the unit was vacant for more than three months then you could proceed.Although in principal I can see it is a good thing I can also see the new legislation is wide open to abuse, or am I wrong.

Adrian Irving ● 1964d

most people don't shop alone, do they ?

Janice Evans ● 1964d

To Ken.

Janice Evans ● 1964d

Adrian, it comes into force on 1st August but it isn't 'automatic' as a prior approval application will still be required including a extensive set of criteria, one of which as you say includes the need for the floorspace to have been vacant for at least 3 months immediately prior to the application being made.Unlike the current legislation however there's no ability (other than in Conservation Areas) for LPA's to refuse such an application on the basis of the impact of the loss of the commercial unit on the vitality and viability of the area.

Adam Beamish ● 1964d

Ken, Sorry that don't make sense, people usually shop the High Street when shopping alone, if a few of us go shopping most likely to visit otherplaces as you cannot get everything on the High Street and we would go where we can park.

Janice Evans ● 1964d

Thank's Adam.CHR amongst many others has elegant period houses hidden behind ugly single storey shops that have been built on the original front gardens.Returning some of those to how they were would add to the street scene in a positive way.

Adrian Irving ● 1964d

No worries, it is probably nestling somewhere along with my tolerance of bad driving although you are likely to find yours well before I find mine. Grief, if some of these were the people who passed a driving test, how bad were those who failed?I can't find any accurate data for this.

N V Brooks ● 1964d

This retail park is amazing for access.  Park right up against the shop fronts and it is flat from there on, in.  At Christmas Marks have ‘spotters’ looking out for people with access needs, just to support them.  A friend with Parkinsons was fished out in this way and supported through his shopping and back to his transport afterward.  Nearest place for the same parking and flat access is Staines but the new Marks is a food hall and they have closed the other Marks, along with dear old Debenhams.  Staines do a flat rate car parking fee of something like £2 for the whole day.  Kew is free.

Sarah Felstead ● 1964d

"I'll give you a clue... think Clothes and Shoes"I wonder why we can no longer buy clothes and shoes on CHR (altho' Ms Biddolph would disagree)?

Ken Munn ● 1964d

Jim, was that the American arm of Chrysler, or a part of the Rootes Group that Chrysler took over between 1964 and 1967 ?

Richard Greenhough ● 1964d

KenDo stop taking every opportunity to have a go at Cllr Biddolph, you're embarrassing yourself. Since when have we had large chain stores selling clothes, as for shoes we did have Clarks, you know the shop you made derogatory posts about...

Loraine Pemberton ● 1964d

I'll miss this place as I use it and consider it local..have you ever tried to shop in Brentford? There are 5 units there that I find very useful and I dislike online shopping,particularly for clothes and shoes.Face it shops on high streets are a dying breed,estate agents and coffee shops will be side by side with charity shops, Poundlands and butchers and bakers that not everyone can afford.I think these shopping areas are a great idea,and as you can shop there for quite a wide range of goods,save people a lot of aggravation,time and money.A bus stops nearby if you don't want or need to drive, I don't see why people have a problem with them, but there will always be a few berks who hate to see others benefitting and enjoying something they dislike for whatever reason.

Keith Iddon ● 1964d

"there will always be a few berks who hate to see others benefitting and enjoying something they dislike for whatever reason"So true :-)

Ed Saper ● 1964d

I wonder why Ken has absolutely no clue of what's on offer along CHR, TGT and DR.Perhaps not to his taste, but plenty of shops for clothes and shoes. Skews to women, but it's all out there.

David Lesniak ● 1963d

I used to shop at White Stuff and Fat Face, but they're long gone.  Been meaning to check out the Simon Carter store.I'm afraid I'm so far gone that the idea of trying things on in store now feels a bit weird!  I would imagine Ken's tastes are more refined :-)

Ed Saper ● 1963d

Each “car” has A spend of between £20-200 a visit. We use it once a week at least. The most useful/accessible shopping option in the area. But greedy developers it is. And more private riverside flats. Sad.

Caroline Carrington ● 1963d

Apologies if this has already been discussed elsewhere in this thread ... but isn't there a risk that, from 25 October this year, the economics are already going to shift for a fair number of shoppers - and thus for the tenants and the landlord? It looks as though the Kew Retail Park will be within the new ULEZ boundary - so quite a few current users will be facing a £12.50 surcharge whenever they go there. Whether they are planning on spending £20 or £200, won't that be quite a disincentive over a year?

Christopher Woodley ● 1963d

Another boring remote clone settlement. Drearyoso.

Petey Rosebar ● 1963d