Forum Topic

Refund of traffic fines after the TGT disaster?

Can I suggest anyone who received a fine during that debacle approach Councillor Steve Curran and ask for an indication as to when they can expect a refund?

Liam Robinson ● 1986d15 Comments

Maybe they should just learn to read?

Carl Wynne ● 1986d

I believe he responds if you take a wheelie bin round to his house.

Richard Greenhough ● 1985d

It could get messy. As far as I am aware TfL are appealing the judgement against the Streetspace measure in Bishopsgate but should that fail the question arises would any fines given in relation be null and void. Also would TfL have to proactively give people their money back or wait for them to request it?If the OneChiswick case isn't settled before a ruling is made, it could be that some of the Streetspace schemes in the borough are ruled invalid and associated PCNs would be illegal. This would apply to Turnham Green Terrace and Devonshire Road PCNs but not Fisher's Lane which is Ealing.The judgement is due in just over a month. It is perhaps significant that the one Streetspace scheme definitely canned is TGT.

Francis Rowe ● 1985d

So is there currently any formal legal challenge to the Fisher's Lane restriction?

Anita Blake ● 1983d

Bit off thread but where is Jennifer ?  she was very upset with the changes.

Janice Evans ● 1983d

To clarify, only the very top of Fishers Lane is in Ealing - the entrance with the zebra crossing.  As soon as you are through the underpass it's Hounslow and in Turnham Green ward.  Most of Fishers Lane is in Hounslow. To close it to drivers, Hounslow needed Ealing to make the necessary traffic management order and instal signs. Ealing installed an ANPR camera on its side, opposite the entrance. Hounslow deployed a mobile CCTV camera on the road.

Joanna Biddolph ● 1983d

So was that to share the profits?

Graham Court ● 1982d

If the restriction is an Ealing one then wouldn't the vans be collecting fines for that borough rather than Hounslow even though they are parked in Hounslow part of Fishers Lane?

Francis Rowe ● 1981d

I would have thought not - the restriction is a No Vehicular Access (except for Local Buses) one.The evidence that an offence has occurred is the photographic evidence that a vehicle has driven past the sign. For southbound traffic, the offence takes place north of the bridge in Ealing, for northbound traffic the offence takes place south of the bridge in Hounslow.

Andrew Jones ● 1981d

So effectively a borough can collect revenue from a restriction imposed by another authority?

Francis Rowe ● 1979d

The TfL case was brought by a black cab association because taxis weren't exempt from one of their schemes, which disproportionately affected the disabled. I don't know what the taxi situation was on Turnham Green Terrace but I don't see any refunds in the offing.

Lucas Cox ● 1978d

Mmmm, that's a really interesting point you make.Assuming that PCNs can be issued legitimately by a authority, we have two possible scenarios here.Scenario 1 - Hounslow can issue tickets for a restriction imposed by Ealing.Scenario 2 Ealing can issue tickets for a restriction even if the offence takes place in Hounslow.Both situations seem a bit wrong.How can Ealing legally make a restriction that applies in Hounslow?and/or How can Ealing issue PCNs for an offence that occurs in Hounslow (if the camera car on the south side of the bridge is acting for Ealing).Richard Jennings, font of knowledge on many things traffic wise, any thoughts?

Andrew Jones ● 1977d

"How can Ealing legally make a restriction that applies in Hounslow?"I don't know, but they've done it with Hounslow's apparent agreement.  I believe that Hounslow may have done something similar just north of Brentford.The Fishers Lane restriction is contained in The Ealing and Hounslow (Fishers Lane) (No.1) Experimental Traffic Order, 2020 which was made by Ealing in July 2020.  Unlike Hounslow, Ealing don't appear to publish their traffic orders online, so I haven't seen the text of the order itself.  But there is an official notice about it in the London Gazette at https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3598255I've no idea how the finances work between the two boroughs on this scheme.  Hounslow will have lost some income by the removal of a couple of parking bays just south of the railway bridges.  Are Hounslow issuing PCNs for Fishers Lane?  Or is the Serco camera van there for Ealing?  (Serco provide enforcement services for Ealing as well as Hounslow.)

Richard Jennings ● 1977d

Thanks Richard.

Andrew Jones ● 1976d

Serco vans occasionally appeared on Fisher's Lane on the Hounslow side before Ealing installed the camera. I'd assume they were raising money for Ealing rather than Hounslow.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 1974d