Forum Topic

Changes are coming o

http://www.chiswickw4.com/default.asp?section=info&page=conroad313.htm?fbclid=IwAR2jZOO-nCx-9uZZzRDcleV62DpnTJmKQI2EQs2EFplN_vAoS243LKJyF_o

Maggie Dodge ● 1989d94 Comments

Good news about TGT

Loraine Pemberton ● 1989d

Fingers crossed, the beginning of the end of the madness

Maggie Dodge ● 1989d

Very good news.  Living on the North side of the High Road, the restrictions on TGT were my main bugbear, so very glad to hear they are going,  but I also think the floating bus islands and lack of refuges are very dangerous and need to be rethought.

Claire Moran ● 1988d

Agree Oh sorry,just remembered,im a ‘unhinged pro-cycling campaigner’ who lives in the community. Not sure what direction my wheels are turning these days. Seems others make that decision for me.

Julian Pavey ● 1988d

This is indeed brilliant news. In all fairness, they could never have closed TGT to cars again, particularly with Fishers Lane still closed - it would have caused uproar...And talking of Fishers Lane, the report just published shows 88% of people are against it being closed to cars, with 84% of people wanting the scheme scrapped/reversed immediately.Lets hope the council respond accordingly to these findings, and get this opened to cars again very soon. After all, it is never going to be a road that is safe to walk along, so what is the point of keeping the current measures? It just makes the traffic along South Parade/Acton Lane twice as bad, and restricts the ability to for those of us living in the Bedford Park area to move about sensibly.In conclusion, this is certainly a good start, and a move in the right direction.

Mark Edwards ● 1988d

Good news on TGT and now focus must be on Devonshire Road and Fishers lane to completely end the ill-advised nonsense created by Hounslow and Ealing Councils

David Kerr ● 1988d

Agree. Unfortunately they seem to give scant notice in general to the opinions of those in Chiswick.  Maybe the national press articles have alarmed them, and maybe, just maybe, Grant Schapps who said that the LTNs need to be implemented using common sense, has read them and has given them a b****cking.

Claire Moran ● 1988d

Council elections next year. They’ve finally stopped listening to the anti car mob and realised we are a large majority

Maggie Dodge ● 1988d

Yes but with traffic at a constant stand still on the high road I do not think opening  Fishers lane will make much difference Sounds to me is that they want to make final decisions on these schemes before traffic returns to normal levelsThe bike lane in its current form is a disaster, putting it back or changing it will cost a fortune, but i guess its not their money so they don’t care.

Rahman Hyatt ● 1988d

Opening Fishers Lane will make a huge difference, the constant gridlock all the way down Acton Lane/South Parade is utterly ridiculous and I feel very sorry for the residents of South Parade - pollution levels must have rocketed since this ridiculous scheme was implemented.I noticed the other day that the police still use Fishers Lane even when not responding to an emergency.

Fiona Campbell ● 1988d

Hear, hear, Fiona!

Colin Jordan ● 1988d

I couldn't click on the link. Is it correct?

Jill Merrett ● 1988d

"I couldn't click on the link. Is it correct?"It wasn't a clickable link.  But this one is:Some Chiswick Streetspace Measures to Be Scrapped

Richard Jennings ● 1988d

The Interim Review Traffic Analysis has just been released. This independent report was prepared by Steer and looked at the actual bus times for the 94 between the terminus on Acton Lane and Bath Road. "The data indicates the scheme has had a minimal impact on the bus journey times on South Parade." So no evidence of "constant gridlock".The Council will rely on this analysis and any updates in the final report in informing their final decision on Fishers Lane.

Tom Pike ● 1988d

These changes are very welcome - so much so that I thought the title of this thread meant someone had composed a sea shanty to celebrate them.One reason for the lack of change in bus journey times on the 94 is that people learnt not to wait at the bus stop on South Parade because the capacity restrictions meant it would always fill up at the terminus. Therefore the bus never needed to stop there. Also the congestion is rarely eastbound at this point. The buses are more likely to get stuck westbound so much so that I now get off a couple of stops early and more often than not over take the bus. It has been good for helping me reach my daily step target at least.There certainly isn't constant gridlock but the notion that there hasn't been a seriously negative impact on 94 bus travel times is delusional.

Anita Blake ● 1988d

Computer says "no"....

Bruce Hammal ● 1988d

FionaSeconded Hear Hear

Loraine Pemberton ● 1988d

People living north of the High Road use Fishers Lane so don’t have to use the High Road, local traffic is being forced into the congested streets making them much worse. The bus islands are complete and utter madness, given the few who do use the cycle lane would be much better to convert back to bus lane which cyclists can use, far more efficient use of limited road space. A lot more efficient use of our money!

Jayne Thorburn ● 1988d

Thank you, Richard.

Jill Merrett ● 1988d

"The data indicates the scheme has had a minimal impact on the bus journey times on South Parade." So no evidence of "constant gridlock".Tom, your blind faith in every single survey and consultation commissioned by TfL and LBH and the results being accurate over the real anecdotal evidence of residents and businesses who actually experience the delays and inconvenience of these ill thought out schemes is truly naive. The phrase 'there's lies, damned lies and statistics' comes to mind.Your comments would have far more credibility if you would show some form of compromise and empathy for those who have to endure the adverse results of LTN's etc. My spend alone, and I know many of my friends and acquaintances are the same, on TGT and DR has vastly reduced, as we cannot  drive and park for 30 mins without financial penalties !But from your numerous posts you clearly don't care about us folk with mobility issues or the businesses these badly thought out schemes adversely affect - shame on you...

Loraine Pemberton ● 1988d

There is someone missing on this celebratory posting and a very angry one at that.

James Dow ● 1988d

This morning at 7.45am I dropped my car off at Capital Motors a journey that took approximately 5 mins. I received a call from Paul at 12.20 pm asking me to collect my car asap as he was so busy and needed the space. Arrived at 12.35pm.It took me 28 minutes on CHR idling, because I couldn't take the shortest route through the Glebe estate. Someone please tell me how that's a benefit to the environment or anything/ anyone else  ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 1988d

There was no significant changes in bus times either east or westbound. These are actual bus times in for two weeks in September and October compared to January and February last year. Eastbound is a slightly slower for both periods.

Tom Pike ● 1988d

Tom, just a suggestion, pop down to the bus station and have a chat with a few bus drivers.They live in the real world.

Adrian Irving ● 1988d

It was our Chiswick councillors who requested that the Council provide adequate evidence to inform decisions on whether the temporary traffic measures should be maintained. That was a perfectly reasonable request.Are you now suggesting these independent assessments be ignored?

Tom Pike ● 1988d

"Are you now suggesting these independent assessments be ignored? No Tom.Are you suggesting that their input is irrelevant?

Adrian Irving ● 1988d

The change to the actual bus travel times is directly accessible data. Interviewing bus drivers to try to get an indication of the same information is not a good use of anybody's time, if that's what you're suggesting.

Tom Pike ● 1988d

I am always very wary of traffic data analysis that focuses on one thing without considering the wider context.Obvious questions arise around the analysis. They were comparing a pre-lockdown period to the middle of the pandemic - what was the effect on traffic volumes on South Parade?  On a related point had they considered normal variability of traffic volumes?I very rarely use South Parade so have no personal experience of what traffic volumes have been recently, or at least post the road changes.  What we do know from many studies is that short term changes in traffic in response to road changes are often quite different to the long term effects.In the interests of transparency I should state that I have been consistently in favour of closing Fisher's Lane to vehicles

Justin Stephenson ● 1988d

FC: "... the constant gridlock all the way down Acton Lane/South Parade is utterly ridiculous".I live on one of the roads leading off South Parade (SP end). I pass along or over SP most days on foot (occasionally in my car), very often at evening rush hour.Now I accept it may be due to lockdown and wfh etc, and I'm not so familiar with Acton Lane, but either way, it is simnply not true to claim there is "constant gridlock" along South Parade.

Richard Cathcart ● 1988d

Justin, I was commenting on admittedly a specific claim, that there been an significant increase in travel times along South Parade. The actual bus times for these two periods does not support that claim. . You might want to read the interim traffic report which provides a much broader picture. This shows that overall north of the High Road the number of trips have fallen and become more direct. This was before TGT was reopened, though.

Tom Pike ● 1988d

FC: "... the constant gridlock all the way down Acton Lane/South Parade is utterly ridiculous".I also live on a road just off South Parade. I’m on South Parade several times a day. It is utterly ridiculous to suggest there is constant gridlock. It it exactly the opposite almost all the time actually.

Edward Seaton ● 1988d

Richard, Ed, your observations chime with mine. But in the end this isn't a poll of anecdotes - we have the bus travel times so there is no question that claims of gridlock are overblown.

Tom Pike ● 1988d

"It took me 28 minutes on CHR idling, because I couldn't take the shortest route through the Glebe estate."If you are starting your journey at Capital Motors, there is nothing to prevent you driving into the Glebe Estate.  It is only the "No Motor Vehicles except for access" signs at the start of Devonshire Road that have that effect, and you don't pass them on a journey starting at Capital Motors.

Richard Jennings ● 1988d

Thank's Tom.At least I now have a straight answer.An answer I fully expected from someone of your background.

Adrian Irving ● 1988d

It occurs to me from speaking to people, including bus drivers that you can argue the question of journey times both ways and both would be correct and both would be wrong.To explain. If you take all journeys from start to finish over twenty four hours for seven days then the statistics become so diluted you can show there has been little change.However anyone that has a pair of eyes in their head can daily witness long tailbacks of traffic grinding along CHR in which buses are now trapped since the ripping up of bus the lane. The poor unpaid, undervalued bus drivers will tell you in no uncertain terms how this has impacted their lives. They will tell you it is much slower, far more stressful and dangerous for road users and pedestrians alike.A better solution for all road users needs to be found.

Adrian Irving ● 1988d

Pity, Richard, that sign does not define what access is nor who has it or who does not. As we read about permit holders and white lists elsewhere, why not here?As it stands, anyone accessing their home has access. Anyone accessing a business has access.

David Lesniak ● 1988d

Adrian, as you can see from Tom's post, his, Ed's and Richard's observations chime and therefore matter.The observations of mere bus drivers do not.A bit like listening to our friend who drives an ambulance. He and his colleagues have numerous tales about being delayed in traffic due to these schemes. Why believe real life experiences when you can rely upon skewed statistics and "data" mined from hand-selected sources?

David Lesniak ● 1988d

A straw man argument is being used here. Somebody made the obviously false claim that there was constant gridlock on South Parade. However, when Fisher's Lane originally closed there were regular queues stretching back from Acton Lane to the mini-roundabout by the underpass sometimes even further. After a couple of months this seems to have been mitigated in some way, presumably by giving longer for vehicles to pass through the lights at the south end of Acton Lane. However queues on Acton Lane beyond the bus terminus do happen regularly. As you don't know if you are going to be delayed on South Parade until you get there I have got into the habit of getting off on Bath Road even though the terminus is closer to my home.The 94 is a 24 hour service and therefore any extra delays in the morning and evening rush hour may appear minor in the statistics. In addition with fewer people using the buses there should have been a reduction in journey times.

Anita Blake ● 1988d

It would have been quicker to read the interim traffic report to see how the bus times are recorded than wrongly speculate about them. The comparison is each hour separately for weekdays, Saturdays and Sundays. There is no significant difference to the times each hour for that part of the service along South Parade.

Tom Pike ● 1988d

The claim that the Steer Report does show there was no delay to the 94 as a result of the Fisher's Lane closure is technically correct but Tom fails to mention that the authors qualified this conclusion on the basis of limited data and errors in the base data. Their analysis only a short period when the closure was first implemented before camera enforcement was in place.What the report does show is that comparing September 2020 with 2017 there was a 6% drop in week day traffic volumes on Acton Lane compared with a 23% drop boroughwide. It is not surprising therefore that during the short period of analysis there was no measurable impact on journey times. But basically this report is worthless when it comes to reaching a firm conclusion about how the closures have impacted the efficiency of the 94 bus.What is indisputable is that the closure is unpopular with 91% of respondents against the Fisher's Lane closure and only 7% in favour.

Paul Corcoran ● 1988d

Paul,In the Experimental Traffic Order process the local authority is only legally obliged to consider objections. Messages of support are superfluous to the legally required process.Of course the actual objection is key. If the objection is, for example, that the measure will increase pollution and it hasn’t, the objection can be discounted.

Michael Robinson ● 1988d

Splendid

Russell Pearson ● 1988d

Can we hope and expect that Tom Pike and his data will evaporate in a way the traffic never did.

Maggie Dodge ● 1988d

In to space

James Dow ● 1988d

Paul, there are no errors or missing data and there is no qualification of Steer's conclusions regarding the bus-time analysis of Route 94 along Action Lane and South Parade.What this independent report concludes is that for the period of comparison, specifically chosen because general traffic levels were generally stable for those four weeks, 25/9/2020 to 22/10/2020, "the data indicates the scheme has had a minimal impact on the bus journey times on South Parade".Your grounds for discrediting this conclusion has absolutely no basis.

Tom Pike ● 1988d

I thought the INRIX data showing routes was interesting and the extent that Fishers Lane was used as a through route to the M4 for vehicles coming from Shepherds Bush and Acton.

Michael Robinson ● 1988d

Tom Pike says, "there are no errors or missing data and there is no qualification of Steer's conclusions regarding the bus-time analysis of Route 94 along Action Lane and South Parade"This is what the report says, "It should be noted the Post-Streetspace data (September 2020) shows a sharp drop in vehicle flow on Thursday 17 September. This vehicle flow remains low during the rest of the survey period. These issues have been raised with the supplying survey company. They provided assurance that the drop (apart from the period early on the Thursday morning) is unlikely to be due to a tube defect as this was repaired. It is likely an unrecorded event caused this."I am not disputing the conclusion that the scheme had minimal impact on bus journey times during the four weeks in which they made the comparison.What I am saying is that this sample provides no sound basis for reaching a conclusion that the scheme has no impact on the 94.The period in which the comparison was made was when the access restriction signs had been put in place but there was little or no enforcement. The Steer report shows that during this period two thirds of drivers were ignoring the signs and continuing to drive through the underpass.Also the data shows that weekday traffic volumes on this road had fallen by 6% during the period under review compared with the pre-lockdown comparison period. Therefore it is unlikely bus travel times would have been affected negatively.However, borough wide traffic volumes had fallen by 23%. Therefore relatively traffic volumes in the vicinity of Fisher's Lane have risen significantly. Whether this is due to the access restriction is impossible to say for sure but the data should cause you concern.The conclusion of the Steer Report provides no basis whatsoever for concluding that there is no impact on bus journey times on an ongoing basis rather it covers only a short unrepresentative period.I know you don't like anecdotal evidence but we are hearing consistently from both users of the service and bus drivers that there has been a negative impact. In the absence of any credible data to contradict this, we should believe them.

Paul Corcoran ● 1988d

Very pleased to see the posts along TGT being taken up this morning, and the much needed parking spaces being opened up for their intended use. I hope this is the start of a return to normality, particularly now we have more people travelling back into work as lockdown eases. Fingers crossed the removal of the cycle lane and the opening of Fishers Lane will quickly follow...

Mark Edwards ● 1988d

It's certainly a pretty thorough analysis, and explodes a few myths. For example, the average of the peak-time bus journey times (7-9 am, 5-7 pm) for the three routes in the report, 94, E3 and 267, feel slightly. While the 94 saw little change, the drop in the E3 southbound time offset the increases on the 267. The improvement was more pronounced at the weekend.

Tom Pike ● 1988d

Uncertainties in the vehicle flow data are irrelevant to the bus timings in this report, and you were quite wrong to state that the authors qualified their conclusions on bus travel times on that basis. Yes, enforcement has been strengthened on Fishers Lane while TGT is now opened up to traffic. Both of these will had a subsequent effect on bus times, but given the minimal impact seen so far on the 94 travel times these two changes may not have a pronounced effect. In any case, we don't need to really on anecdotal evidence. We will have new timings in the final report.

Tom Pike ● 1988d

Paul,I think I have uncovered the reason for the drop in traffic recorded on Acton Lane starting from 17 September. From the roadworks section of this website:B490 Acton Lane, Chiswick17 September — 29 SeptemberDelays likely Lane closureWorks description: Repair Thames Water Leak on High Pressure MainResponsibility for works: THAMES WATERCurrent status: Planned work about to startWorks reference: MU277PTML197696/01

Michael Robinson ● 1988d

That closure was by Chiswick Park Tube Station and not on the 94 route. Therefore it would have reduced the volume of traffic on Acton Lane/South Parade but not have affected the buses. It's no wonder there was no apparent impact on the schedule. Doesn't that completely invalidate the period chosen as a suitable time to make the comparison?

Anita Blake ● 1988d

Well spotted Anita. That seems to me to make perfect sense, but then I'm not a statistician!

Bruce Hammal ● 1988d

The roadwork timings were 17/09/20  to 29/09/20 while the bus timings cover 25/09/2020 to 22/10/20 so there were only 5 days overlap.The bus timings don't appear to show a great deal of difference between these days and the rest.There were later roadworks on Fishers Lane at the end of October and into November but I don't think they overlapped with the bus timings shown.

Michael Robinson ● 1988d

correction, later roadworks on Acton Lane.

Michael Robinson ● 1988d

I would suggest that the restriction at Fishers Lane is kept for the simple reason that it greatly reduces the number of cars trying to join the High Road at a very difficult junction, recently made much worse by the cycle lane. I cannot see that it would really affect people living north of the railway in that there is nowhere near to the junction that they would be able to leave a car if they emerged there. I would imagine that judicious phasing of the lights at TGT and Acton Lane could mean the same number of cars accessing the High Road in a controlled manner.

Alan Green ● 1987d

In fact while Acton Lane traffic fell, at the same time Fishers Lane Traffic had a step up as drivers diverted, ignoring the signage. That would have put more traffic along a longer length of the route of the 94. The emergency water main works on Acton Lane started on 23/10/20, one day after the monitoring period for bus times.

Tom Pike ● 1987d

Complicated isn't it?

Bruce Hammal ● 1987d

Alan, that supposes the bulk of the vehicular traffic from South Parade into Fishers Lane wil proceed all the way to the High Rd. In fact it is also the best and most logical route for anyone wanting to turn off to left or right along Chiswick Common  Rd or Belmont Terrace. Both have parking spaces and provide access to both M&S and Sainsbury's car parks. Certainly when I lived that side of the tracks that was my usual route.The elephant in the room for anything proposed for Fishers Lane remains the 72 bus.

Bruce Hammal ● 1987d

From the front page :"Simon Johnson who owns Marmalade Jewellery on Turnham Green Terrace said, "We are delighted that finally someone has seen sense. The ill-conceived plan was poorly thought out and executed terribly badly with no thought given to residents with mobility issues or business needs. I just hope this extends to Devonshire Road as soon as possible so they can resume normal business."Never mind statistics.... actual experiences of trying to run a business and earn a living.

Nick Jenkins ● 1987d

Ultimately decisions should be based on statistics rather than individual experience but their worth is increasingly being devalued by the tendency to weaponise them by selecting very carefully the data to use to make an argument.

Francis Rowe ● 1987d

Agreed. However decisions can and should  be based legitimately on factors in addition to statistics!

Bruce Hammal ● 1987d

That was a reply to the comment by Francis btw

Bruce Hammal ● 1987d

The trip data in the interim report shows that Fishers Lane was used for longer-distance travel:"It can be seen that before the scheme was implemented, Fishers Lane was a key corridor for trips to places outside the local area. It appears that it was used by trips travelling between areas to the north-west (such as Acton) and the south. Another desire line appears to be between the north-east (around Shepherd’s Bush) and the west (such as Chiswick Roundabout)."The INRIX trip map indicates that the majority of the southbound trips lead to right turns out of Fishers Lane onto Chiswick High Road.

Tom Pike ● 1987d

However the stated reason for closing Fishers Lane under Covid-19 emergency legislation was not to stop through traffic of any sort. It was in order to open up the roadway for pedestrians since the elevated footpath was too narrow to allow for social distancing. Early confusion and some willful disobedience by numbers of drivers plus the presence of the 272 bus  meant that this was always a messy not to say dangerous measure. If the object post-pandemic is altered to stop through traffic, then it should be possible to close off the road afer its junction with Chiswick Common Rd. so allowing access to the parking spaces and shops.

Bruce Hammal ● 1987d

For many people, like myself, Fishers Lane provided not only a vital route out of Chiswick and on to the A4, but also to be able to park along Chiswick Common Road and shop on the High Street, particularly M&S, etc. Since its closure, we have had to drive along South Parade and on to Acton Lane, a journey that is not only much longer in distance, but also in time, due to the increased congestion and therefore pollution.My point has always been, why close Fishers Lane in the first place? People can't walk on the road - it is far too dangerous with cars still using it, along with cyclists, scooters, buses, etc. Closing it has no benefit, opening it does.

Mark Edwards ● 1987d

The junction of Fishers Lane and CHR had more pedestrian casualties as a result of collisions with motor vehicles than any other location in Chiswick.It shouldn't be surprising. There were a high volume of motor vehicles trying to force their way out of an unsignalled junction in an location with high pedestrian footfall.  Some vehicles turning right, some turning left, some turning right to slalom across the road to get to Dukes Avenue for the A4.Given the choice of Acton Lane, Fishers Lane and TGT, it appears that some people think that none of them should have measures to restrict motor traffic to improve links for walking and cycling and the only thing that matters is the convenience of some drivers.

Michael Robinson ● 1987d

I agree, Michael. That junction was inherently dangerous.

Robert Fish ● 1987d

So pedestrians are put in danger by car drivers breaking the law to save a couple of minutes journey time and it's somehow their own fault? Not a very good take on it.

Carl Wynne ● 1987d

To reply to Alan Green's comment, why do you assume (as everyone else seems to also) that Fishers Lane was just used to join the High Road?  It also took traffic away from the High Road - I, for one, would go around behind the High Road and down Fishers Lane in order to get home but now I have to remain on the High Road all the way down to Turnham Green Terrace.  Also in my experience of Fishers Lane more recently it is now less difficult to turn right onto the High Road because of the bus gate or stop or whatever these things are now called.

Fiona Campbell ● 1987d

Maybe try improving the junction then. Traffic signals perhaps?

Bruce Hammal ● 1987d

I believe it is too close to the nearest signalled junction (Dukes Ave is only about 70m away).There is a also the point that signals would be introducing another barrier for pedestrians along the north side of CHR which has lots of footfall and that goes against Mayor and borough policy to enable more walking and cycling.And as the INRIX data shows, the route was primarily used as a short cut to the M4 using a junction that didn't have traffic lights by drivers coming from Shepherds Bush or Acton.

Michael Robinson ● 1987d

The traffic report is very interesting and the INRIX data is supporting what many of us have said for several years now about the high volumes of through-traffic using Chiswick’s minor roads as shortcuts.

Paul Campbell ● 1987d

Michael I was actually referring to the Fishers Lane junction with South Parade. I can appreciate the issues at the  CHR end.

Bruce Hammal ● 1987d

A much higher proportion of drivers are complying with the restrictions now it's being enforced. Cars also produced two-way traffic while the buses only go through one at a time leaving much more space. I'm regularly seeing people walking in the roadway. As for your suggestion of closing Fishers Lane south of Chiswick Common Road, wouldn't that just divert through traffic along Belmont Terrace?    Interestingly, the traffic analysis showed that with both the TGT and Fishers Lane restrictions in place, local trips north of the High Road became both fewer and more direct than the borough average.

Tom Pike ● 1987d

I can't remember what Ealing Council's current view is on the Fishers Lane business. Presumably they have to be in sync with Hounslow for any measures, current or proposed, to work. I wonder if the ousting of Julian Bell will have any repercussions...

Bruce Hammal ● 1987d

I'm not sure what signals at South Parade would achieve.  The  risk was at the CHR end because of the complexity and volume of vehicle and pedestrian movements at the junction.

Michael Robinson ● 1987d

"I can't remember what Ealing Council's current view is on the Fishers Lane""This [Fishers Lane] will form part of a strategic cycle route eventually linking East Acton to Chiswick and to Cycleway 9 on Chiswick High Road."

Michael Robinson ● 1987d

I agree Michael. However I have witnessed numerous near-misses at the South  Parade junction. You have the usual idiots who don't seem to understand roundabouts, coupled with the informal alternating right of way under the pinch point at the bridge. Add in the pedestrian crossing and cyclists coming out of nowhere while using the path across the common and you have another "tricky" junction.

Bruce Hammal ● 1987d

With TGT and Fishers Lane both closed it was difficult to get anywhere - and that was before the never-ending road closures at  Chiswick Park Station. Nobody wants to go back there.

Bruce Hammal ● 1987d

Watch this space  then!

Bruce Hammal ● 1987d

DL: "Adrian, as you can see from Tom's post, his, Ed's and Richard's observations chime and therefore matter. The observations of mere bus drivers do not."Adrian was talking about bus delays on CHR.Speaking for myself (only), I made a different observation entirely, namely that my experience of South Parade directly contradicts Fiona Campbell's earlier claim that SP suffers "constant gridlock".I must say, your "scattergun" approach to debating might satisfy your (evident) need to take out as many "enemies" as you can with each blast.But this self-same lack of discrimination only detracts from those occasions when you do have a valid point.

Richard Cathcart ● 1987d

Firstly I am going to thank Tom Pike for directing my attention to the interim traffic analysis by Steer.IMO it was a very thoughtful report, where there were issues with the data (for example the age of some of the ATC data) the report clearly identified those issues and at least tried to correct for those issues.However, when it comes to bus times for the 94 bus I think there are some major lacuna in the analysis.  It is absolutely true as Tom has posted that the report showed that there was no appreciable difference in bus times along South Parade pre & post road closures. But there is a lack of analysis of the factors that might impact on bus times along that route.  In very simplistic terms the speed a bus can move along any stretch of road is determined by 3 things (1) volume of traffic which has obvious impacts on speed (2) how many stops a bus has to make on that road and (3) how long it stops at each stop which is probably a function of the number of passengers getting on or off.It is probably the case that the number of bus stops along the route did not change - I am going to assume that as it makes the analysis easy.What we know from the report is that across the borough traffic volumes declined by 25-26% but that for Acton Lane the traffic volumes declined by about 10% only due to covid.What we also know is that bus passenger capacity was significantly reduced because of Covid.  Not only that but that there was a significant move to working from home rather than in offices.  The combination of those 2 factors is likely to mean that number of passengers getting on or off the 94 bus at any particular stop would be reduced and that would result in the bus spending less time at the stop.  The problem is of course that we have no data as to how much of a difference this would have caused.The point is that the combination of less time held at bus stops and lower traffic volumes should have resulted in bus times reducing between the 2 periods looked at but as the report found, there has been no significant change in bus times.  IMO the most likely explanation is that the road closures have resulted in slower bus times but this is masked by the beneficial effects of lower traffic volumes and less time at bus stops

Justin Stephenson ● 1987d

If the junction is shown to be dangerous, then indeed - why not introduce traffic signals? People seem to be forgetting that is is just the underpass that is closed to traffic, not the whole of Fishers Lane - it is still possible to drive along Dolman Road and onto Fishers Lane and then the High Road, so that junction is still being used by cars.

Mark Edwards ● 1987d

Paul, if the Mayor and LBH actually gave a shit about enabling more walking, they'd ensure its safety by getting cyclists off the pavement.They don't on both counts. Read more closely. Some are put off walking because of errant cyclists. Careful now, don't whip yourself into too much of a frenzy whilst replying. You must be very proud, though, of the results of your COVID boycott of TGT businesses and others who had the temerity to challenge these schemes. They prevailed. You didn't.

David Lesniak ● 1987d

JS: "The point is that the combination of less time held at bus stops and lower traffic volumes should have resulted in bus times reducing between the 2 periods looked at but as the report found, there has been no significant change in bus times."When traffic volume and loading/unloading times at stops are both reduced, then buses will move quicker (obviously). But when this is marked, the driver has to hold at the stop, in order both to keep to the timetable and to maintain a gap between buses, as I've experienced on the 94 myself.Therefore the statistics for delayed buses at peak times should not get artificially "cancelled out" by quicker journeys at quiet times due to Covid etc.

Richard Cathcart ● 1987d

Justin, you haven't mentioned that the buses run to a timetable, as best they can.So if dwell time at stops is reduced because of fewer passengers, that doesn't mean that everything speeds up and they run ahead of timetable.  Rostering of drivers, changeovers, buses going in and out of service etc. depends on the timetable.Bus position is reported using the iBus system and there are bus controllers and an iBus device in the cab to provide instructions to the driver to regulate service.

Michael Robinson ● 1987d

It's not just the junctions.  The tunnel is bad there.  When you are cycling through it, some car drivers decide they are more important than you and plough through regardless, even though there is not room to pass safely and it's your priority.

Al Webber ● 1987d

Justin, I think you have correctly identified the contributions to the total bus travel times. However, there are some important considerations you have omitted that need to be taken into account, and these constrain how much difference changes in passenger loading times could have made. Looking at the data, there is rather less variation in the travel times compared to the other routes in the report. For the 94 the minimum travel time over this stretch is two minutes either way, and that's the same in both periods studied. The maximum travel time is rarely more than three minutes with a similar pattern in both periods analysed. In comparison the E3 travel time varies by more than a factor of three. Hence variability to both congestion and passenger numbers are relatively light on the 94 route, in both periods, adding at most 50% to the travel times.In fact as the 94 is right at one end of its route over the length studied, the number of passengers, and certainly the number getting off eastbound and on westbound, is rather limited. Hence the time at the stops to allow loading and unloading of passengers will always be a relatively low contribution to variability in the travel time, which itself is quite limited.Hence reduced passenger loading times could only make a very limited compensation to offset possible increased congestion, certainly no more than a small fraction of the variability in the period before COVID restrictions. In fact if you look in detail at the data the times became slightly shorter, probably from a combination of reduced traffic and lower passenger numbers. Certainly, there is no way that changes in passenger numbers could have masked gridlock!   

Tom Pike ● 1987d

16.35 South Parade blocked solid from just before Fishers Lane up to Chiswick Park Station from what I could see. I turned off. Not the rain I don’t think because the rest of my journey was fine. I’d avoid for a good while if you can

Maggie Dodge ● 1987d

Both you and Richard Cathcart have made a very valid point which I had not considered.  However, the South Parade part of the 94 route is at the very start of the 94 route (if travelling east) or the very end (if travelling west) so I am not sure how strictly drivers would need to adhere to bus timetables for those few stops.  Pre-pandemic I was a reasonably regular user of the 94 route and I cannot remember buses standing stationary at a South Parade stop (other than the terminus stop) for the purposes of meeting timetables - maybe I was just lucky when I used the 94.As Tom has correctly stated, the data clearly shows that South Parade was not at gridlock all the time - in fact the data showed traffic reduced slightly but less than the borough wide reduction caused by the pandemic.If anything the report justifies LBH decision to cancel the closure of TGT to traffic idea.  The data would suggest that as traffic reverted back to pre-pandemic levels there would have been a very significant rise in traffic along South Parade which would have been a problem.

Justin Stephenson ● 1986d

Justin, I agree with you that that there was unlikely to be delays at the stops to "regulate the service" and I've never experienced them on the 94 along this stretch either.However, I don't think you've got the implications of the bus times quite right. There is no data on the traffic levels along South Parade that can be compared to the borough averages, just bus travel times along it. However, the report does give information on the actual traffic levels across this area compared to the borough's:"There appears to have been a reduction in the number of local trips using roads in the area north of Chiswick High Road (within Chiswick North), that is more significant than the borough-wide trend."Lifting the restrictions on TGT risked reversing this reductions, and that risk would now be compounded if Fishers Lane is reopened - it is rather unlikely that the comparative reduction in trips is just down to the restrictions on TGT. On that point I think we are in agreement.

Tom Pike ● 1986d

We are both in agreement on closure of Fisher's Lane.  The closure of TGT is to be scrapped, that idea is now a dead duck.The data for local traffic is interesting but unless we know the reasons for the changes in number of trips it becomes a correlation without causation - it could be a consequence of road closures and restrictions on parking, it could be that demographics of the relevant local area mean that the pandemic had a greater impact on traffic volumes than the borough as a whole.It will be interesting to see how the re-opening of TGT has impacted on north/south traffic - the data showed that this was a problem on Acton Lane

Justin Stephenson ● 1986d

I agree we can't be very confident of the cause of the changes in trips for the reasons you mention, but at least it's in the right direction.I'm not very surprised by the increase of the traffic on Acton Lane. While traffic dropped as a whole, the NS traffic that respected the restrictions on Fishers Lane and TGT still had to divert to other streets. The data shows as a result trips in this period increased along Acton Lane, Heathfield Terrace and down Sutton Court Rd to the A4, but fell along Bath Rd and at the south end of the Avenue (see fig. 57).

Tom Pike ● 1986d