Forum Topic

Where did it all go so horribly wrong...?

Front page article on the planning refusal at Kew Bridge station is laughable - we all know that a new scheme will be resubmitted with the appropriate weasel words for the Council to wave  it through-- prompted me to think and try and locate the moment when London, and particluarliy west london switched from being the archicettural hotch potch ( and all the better for i t) of a couple of hundred years of functional and adaptive industrial/work and residential buildings to a bastardised version of singapore?A drive across the elevated section of the m4 has a sightline of thousands  of identiflats, with thousands more being built, to house presicely who... theres no new intrastructure - kew bridge station isnt fit for purpose and hasnt been for decades, gunnersbury the same - yet the flats and density of population goes skywards..the Bollo lane  planned development id more of the same- thousands of identiflats, built with overseas money,  adding nothing to the area and again, i imagine, no public infrastrcuture upgrades - apart from the usual planning images of as few fresh faced kids cartwheeling across a " mixed use common square " which in reality will be a windswept no-go zone..North Acton is building One west Point " The tallest residential tower in  west london  -This 42-storey residential tower is situated in the prime position of the centre of the North Acton/Old Oak Regeneration area in London..."' in actual fact its a derelict roundabout with a cemetery on one side and the m40 on the other ..Ealing seems to be plunging into a similar decline of faceless mirror fronted tower blocksLong rant however when DID it all go wrong---when did we lose the opportunity to say, no councillor/no invester/no construction magnate, enough...go pick another city to ruin..I blame the start of it on The blair/osboorne cudddling up to chinese /asian money " london is open of business and here's my bank account "...era...https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/the-builders-charter-osborne-to-overturn-65-years-of-planning-law-7579471.htmlis there any hope of change, or at least a hit of a slow-down?!#end

Tim Garfoot ● 1996d27 Comments

North Acton was renamed Gotham City some years ago now. I wonder how the board of Brentford FC feel as their new ''Community Stadium'' is increasingly hemmed in by developments which will struggle to cope with the demand very soon given there is no tube line. All those Labour supporters have to live somewhere though

peter king ● 1996d

Why not look at who the party donors are?Perhaps there isn't enough housing there for the land involved - it took quite a while for the Govt to approve the London Plan.  Developer's always seem to want more.Look at the housing like the garden suburbs that used to be built for people and took into account their wellbeing and wonder why they were and in many cases still are so popular and well cared for.Some of the old stuff was better and can be revitalised if done properly.  There are some lovely old estates which just need more input.  I watched this the other day about estates regeneration and it was interesting: - take a look:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPbhPzBChgQ

Philippa Bond ● 1996d

Weren't the garden suburbs built when we had a stable population? There has been so much immigration over the last ten to fifteen years, some of it not catered for by the last Labour government. Add in a high birth rate for certain sectors of society and you have the current problem. Where are the kids who will live in these developers ''pension pots'' supposed to get some exercise?

peter king ● 1996d

"Why not look at who the party donors are?"Indeed, and why Ealing Labour councillors are 'humbled' (after being exposed) into apologising for accepting the largesse of property developers who whisk them off to Cannes for the MIPIM conferences where they will bump into, among others, representatives from LBHounslow.

N V Brooks ● 1995d

I fear that the problem will only be solved when an airliner hits one of the towers and it finally sinks in that Heathrow is the wrong place for London's main airport, a replacement is built in the Thames Estuary and all the acreage currently occupied by the airport becomes available for development.

Richard Greenhough ● 1995d

RG > "... a replacement is built in the Thames Estuary..."Surely that sort of investment in infrastructure and the much-needed jobs it will bring must go to Hartlepool?

John Whitworth ● 1995d

very prescient and interesting thanks Phillipa- all seems so simple the way its highlighted here....and then at the back-end of the clip the reality of a hands-off government and £££ gorge-ing house builders explains my point/frustration !

Tim Garfoot ● 1995d

So how long would HS5 take to deliver passengers from London to Hartlepool International ?

Richard Greenhough ● 1995d

When people saw property as an investment rather than as a home, the catalyst being when building societies/banks were permitted to lend on second home.In in short order investors piled in from all corners of the world.

Adrian Irving ● 1995d

Yet again, we are faced with that old canard that the UK housing shortage is caused by "immigration".This is nonsense.  Net immigration into the UK over the last decade has been between 3 and 3.5 persons per 1,000, so the impact on the housing market is immaterial.  (And, who do you think has been building the houses in the UK for the last two decades! Without immigration, the supply of new housing in London would be even more restricted).The housing problem is arguably the greatest failure of successive governments, ranging from the failure to build / improve housing, the removal of restrictions on bank lending (particularly for "buy to let") driving up property prices (but without a commenserate increase in supply - because "property costs" ultimately means "land costs"), until recently allowing tax relief on interest costs for "investors" but not for owner occupiers, lack of investment in public transport, and leaving housing supply to "the market" instead of recognising it as an essential human need that requires management by the government.

T P Howell ● 1995d

There has been immigration and migration and refugees from time immemorial and if you look at your family tree you will no doubt find that your family in Victorian times had many more children in that generation than they do today. Many of them you may not have known about because they died as babies or young.  Generally it has gradually changed as fewer children died and boys AND girls gained education.  There are not many women who want to be baby machines.  Many nowadays actually don't want children at all and that can be a problem too as they will have no children to help look after them in their old age because no government has got it together to deal with social care problem and many will not be able to pay £1,000 a week for a home.  We have taxes which no-one appears to like paying and which unfortunately those who can afford to find easier to avoid paying their fair share of - while those who can't avoid them and are on PAYE struggle with time and money. Trickle down is a myth.  We have great shortages of staff in the NHS and many of those workers are not British born.  We are told after the pandemic that those who we clapped for and depended on and valued so much won't get pay rises.  Short staffed to start with and overworked they struggled to do their best and this is how they are repaid.  Then we wonder why there is such a turnover of staff.  Recruiters are regularly sent abroad to engage new staff for the NHS - those they engage are unlikely to be British. 

Philippa Bond ● 1995d

https://www.pritzkerprize.com/laureates/anne-lacaton-and-jean-philippe-vassalEven big buildings can be revisited and changed/added to without knocking them down and starting again.  In the UK of course there is no VAT on new build but there is on refurbishment.Even new builds can have problems as can be seen by the Ballymore building with the ACM cladding on fire just a few days ago - and please don't fall into the trap of thinking that cladding is the only problem with many buildings now as Grenfell threw up an awful lot more.It is really depressing to find this too and I wonder whether it will be dealt with better over there than it is here:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/08/conservatives-hate-red-tape-unless-its-to-regulate-the-behaviour-of-their-enemies

Philippa Bond ● 1995d

@Tim  I thought that the row of houses looked good but of course if any of these had been sold with Right to Buy that would have changed the situation and it could be difficult/more expensive to achieve the same result.  We of course presume and hope that there will be no unwanted and unintended surprises after this refurbishment.  That has definitely been one of the problems with UK building.Have you seen Goldsmith Street in Norwich by Mikhail Riches - it will be interesting to see how that works out over the years.

Philippa Bond ● 1995d

PK: "I wonder how the board of Brentford FC feel as their new ''Community Stadium'' is increasingly hemmed in by developments which will struggle to cope with the demand very soon given there is no tube line."I imagine they will be delighted to have hundreds of potential new fans right on their very doorstep - London Irish too.It would actually be a throwback to the old days when they used to get crowds of 30k+ at Griffin Park - virtually all of whom were local and who would walk or cycle to the ground.And it is only called the Brentford Community Stadium as a holding measure until they sell the naming rights to a new sponsor, so you probably didn't need the "inverted commas"P.S. I am in full agreement with Philippa Bond's reply to your comments on immigration.

Richard Cathcart ● 1995d

It was Labour who are responsible for mass destruction of Victorian houses in the North that could easily have been transformed into beautiful homes. They seem not to see any beauty in old buildings. Just tear them down and build monstrous, human and animal-unfriendly high rises.  As is happening in all the Labour controlled London boroughs including Ealing and Hounslow.  That is one of the things I really hold against Labour.

Claire Moran ● 1995d

There was a programme on years ago cannot remember which London Borough it was but they were saying the Council never like tight knitcommunities, they said the Council pull down all the perfectly good houses and spread the people around in different blocks of flats, put an end to a thriving community.  However similar happen in Acton when they pull down the cottages but the people there were happy to move to the flats, my Auntwas one of them and she love her flat.

Janice Evans ● 1995d

Sorry typing breaks up in my posts it's this iPad, why I usually keep things short.

Janice Evans ● 1995d

Have you been to parts of NW London lately or west of Hanwell even? I dare say even Hounslow would be an eye opener, especially when you look at the schoolchildren. This country has always ''welcomed'' immigration but there has to be some control as we aren't a Tardis!

peter king ● 1995d

PK: "Have you been to parts of NW London lately or west of Hanwell even? I dare say even Hounslow would be an eye opener, especially when you look at the schoolchildren. This country has always ''welcomed'' immigration but there has to be some control as we aren't a Tardis!"Do not mistake eg Hounslow for the rest of the country. For instance, Hartlepool has been in the news recently. I was surprised when I saw some information on its demographic make-up.From the last census:95.6% of people living in Hartlepool were born in England. Other top answers for country of birth were 1.2% Scotland, 0.3% Wales, 0.2% Northern Ireland, 0.2% India, 0.2% Ireland, 0.1% Pakistan, 0.1% Philippines, 0.1% South Africa, 0.1% China.98.6% of people living in Hartlepool speak English. The other top languages spoken are 0.3% Polish, 0.1% Bengali, 0.1% All other Chinese, 0.1% Urdu, 0.1% Tagalog/Filipino, 0.1% Panjabi.The religious make up of Hartlepool is 69.9% Christian, 22.0% No religion, 0.7% Muslim, 0.2% Hindu, 0.2% Buddhist, 0.1% Sikh.http://localstats.co.uk/census-demographics/england/north-east/hartlepoolAn almost total lack of immigration hasn't done much for the town, seeing as it lags behind most of the rest of England on just about every major measure, from life expectancy, to employment, to health, to economic prosperity:https://mhfe.org.uk/sites/default/files/Hartlepool%20demographics.pdfWhich is not to say that Hartlpool is exactly typical of the rest of England.But neither is Hounslow.

Richard Cathcart ● 1995d

Slum clearance was a shared agenda and an expectation from primarily Conservative governments who were mostly in power.  Mistakes were made but it’s a huge leap to say that it was the fault of labour councils. Similarly, the huge bungs from developers to the Tory party account for a lot  of planning decisions today. It’s murky.

Stewart Jones ● 1995d

Philippa, I loved this year's Pritzker winners and the work they've done.You make a brilliant point about VAT on refurbishment. That said, there does come a point in a building's life where it is simply no longer able to be regenerated. The cost of the work is far too great for whatever zoning restrictions may apply to make it financially viable.But I think anything can be repurposed. Again, zoning may impede that, but less so if the basic structure is still viable. In the states malls are often the target. A bit like Kew Retail Park. The mistake I think they made in Kew was to bisect the site. They should have come up with a way to build atop the existing retail. By delivering more residential they will increase the need for services yet the will decrease them.

David Lesniak ● 1995d

They were not slums, they show the properties before they were taken down and they were sound.

Janice Evans ● 1995d

As I said, mistakes were made.

Stewart Jones ● 1995d

@Phillipa - I agree the repurposing of the housing was attractive and responsible solution - strange that they have too many 3 bed houses and looking to convert them to smaller units, which is the opposite to here- how many of these flats do you see with balconies crowded with kids bikes and the like- they need to build the right kind of housing- the two story maisonettes which were fantastic council solid stock build in the sixteies seventies, around communal spaces have disappeared from new builds. I also just do not get how there's been little progress in insulation in this country- the technology has been around for decades- I rem in the 70's my pals leaving school to join their dads cavity wall insulation firms where they were earning top dollar- how can we still have houses leaking heat ?

Tim Garfoot ● 1995d

It was the Secret History of our Streets, Janice, and that episode was about Bermondsey. Excellent series.

Kate Vicic ● 1995d

@Tim  Yes, that surprised me as I understand it here there are families waiting 8 years for a house.  I suppose those in smaller homes are going to move on in one way or another - so there is more and faster change.  I've always thought it was better if housing was more mixed as it creates a better community but housing here doesn't seem to be easy to change/that flexible.  Friends in Italy seem to divide their flats to suit the changes in their family size and configuration.  I've seen a new design where the older generation move down to the ground floor where accessibility is easier and the younger generation move upstairs - yet they are still living in the same house.  Many garages are now being repurposed as grandparent flats or home offices but Victorian and Edwardian houses tend not to have garages.  Victorian and Edwardian houses have solid brick walls - cavity walls came into being much later so cavity wall insulation won't work (and hasn't always worked in a lot of those buildings it was used in) - and we also love our brick terraces!  Initiatives to increase thermal insulation seem to have been given to the big energy companies which I don't now and never have really understood as I would have thought that there was a conflict of interest. Retrofitting just isn't as simple as it might seem as as it can cause condensation on wooden joists resulting in rot. Consequently there is a lot of nervousness about it!

Philippa Bond ● 1995d

Thanks Kate, also thought it excellent.

Janice Evans ● 1994d