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Low-traffic zones cause long delays for disabled -  The Times

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2581a9f2-a5e3-11eb-9b76-9500a3917e5f?shareToken=2787f702098ea4d501a884b1363b11faDisability charities have condemned councils over low-traffic neighbourhoods, saying that they have overlooked the needs of the disabled and rebuffed their complaints.Disabled residents of boroughs that have introduced the schemes say their lives are blighted by increased journey times when they have no alternative but to use cars.One partially continent 12-year-old boy has seen his journey time to his special school increase from 20 minutes to an hour, meaning that he is regularly arriving wet. His mother, Gina Bar-On, said that the problem had left her son distressed and confused but Islington council is refusing to allow the school bus to drive through filters that block off residential roads.The council argues that preventing all motor vehicle trips through camera-controlled filters, except for emergency vehicles, makes “the environment feel much safer, and make it much more likely that local people will begin to travel more by active means”.Edward Cripwell, of Disability Action in Islington, said that his charity had been “inundated with complaints by disabled people throughout the borough”.“People say they have been locked down and locked in by the low-traffic neghbourhoods (LTNs). Nobody who has contacted the council has had a meaningful response, no hint that disabled peoples’ views are being considered and that anything will change.”He added that the council did not do the usual “comprehensive equality impact assessment, they did not consult with us formally, they presented us with this scheme as a fait accompli. It does not seem that the rights of disabled people have been taken into account as they should be, as disability is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act.” Scores of LTNs have been introduced over the last year with bollards, planting boxes or enforcement cameras allowing only pedestrians and cyclists to pass. Councils argue that the schemes stop “rat running” and encourage residents to stop using cars for short journeys.Opponents argue that drivers are diverted on to other roads, increasing congestion, pollution and journey times.

Mark Perry ● 2010d73 Comments

The council statement in this article is telling. There has been mission creep with these LTNs which were originally supposed to be to stop rat-running which is a laudable objective. They have transformed into an attempt to try to force people to stop driving in the mistaken belief that most journeys people make are necessary and non-substitutable. This particularly applies to the elderly and the disabled so the measures have become discriminatory and therefore probably illegal.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 2009d

It's disgraceful.

Claire Moran ● 2009d

Your local councillors continue to engage with council traffic officers to encourage Hounslow Council to modify and/or remove the potentially illegal and demonstrably redundant and/or damaging schemes that have been imposed on Chiswick.Last week Cllr Jo Biddolph and I took the new Assistant Head of Traffic and Parking on a private guided tour of Turnham Green Terrace and Dukes Road. We suggested that he pick a couple of shops to go into and discuss the impact of the traffic measures on their businesses. The shop owners he met were amazingly polite but plagent in their views of the impact of the schemes on their businesses. No one can say that Hounslow Council does do not know exactly what damage they are causing. There really is no need to wait for some consultants' report.

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2008d

plagent = plangent

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2008d

And it was TGT and Devonshire Road (not Dukes Road ... or even Duke Road, Dukes Avenue!).

Joanna Biddolph ● 2008d

It's a wonder why the opposition is not more successful.

Paul Campbell ● 2008d

Have you ever considered it is because Hounslow Council is totally unbalanced with only 10 Conservatives out of 60 members.  You work it out!

Jennifer selig ● 2008d

Its funny how the one who achieves the most is the one with the least antagonistic and confrontational style with his fellow Councillors. The one who successfully achieved modifications to everybody's satisfaction on the road scheme in his Ward with minimum noise and fuss and who merrily cycles along the new cycle lane and who seems to have a much better working knowledge of Chiswick's geography.

Paul Campbell ● 2008d

Gosh, Paul, with all your virtue signalling one would think you're too busy and, how shall I say it, virtuous to take a swipe. But as if on cue, here you are.I agitate.You agitate.He/she/it agitates.It's a verb often used in politics. One you're familiar with.

David Lesniak ● 2008d

The level of Paul's concern for the elderly and disabled was shown earlier on in the pandemic when he criticised the World Health Organisation for advising them not to use public transport. He considered that the chance that they might use cars instead was a bigger issue than the possibility that they might die. Increased mortality is one way I suppose to deal with congestion.We've been helping out an elderly relative recently who has moved to new accommodation and has needed to buy quite a lot of stuff to equip it. My wife loves going to Westfield but to me it is hell on earth and before I've always been able to persuade her that support for local independent businesses and the high parking charges at Westfield mean that is better all round that we buy as much as we can on Chiswick High Road.However, if you combine the recent increase in parking fees for the High Road, the reduction in available spaces and the sheer difficulty of getting into the centre of town, my case has been significantly weakened.As a result we took the old dear to Westfield recently. There is now only a small premium to pay for parking and the time allowed is more generous. Parking is stress free as there is ample space and there is lift access to all floors. Not having to worry about an expiring parking ticket meant we didn't have to hurry along an elderly woman to get back to the car and there was time to allow for lunch and a tea break to allow her to rest during what became a marathon shopping exercise.You may not care about the problems the traffic measures in Chiswick cause to the elderly and disabled, you might not give a fig for the way they have undermined many local businesses, you might be unconcerned that discouraging people from shopping in Chiswick means they will drive further away thus meaning the environment is harmed not improved, but surely you will not stand by as my weekends are ruined by me being forced to go on interminable shopping trips to Shepherd's Bush in which a good proportion of my hard-earned cash is spent on stuff I had no idea we needed?

Francis Rowe ● 2008d

About time people spoke up for the disabled.

Janice Evans ● 2008d

Yep the car-led recovery. And so it has come to pass while elsewhere people of all ages and abilities get about on bikes and mobility aids as their governments have invested over decades in safe infrastructure for them to remain independent and mobile without dragging around the ball and chain of an antisocial polluting car for their daily errands in their local neighbourhoods. I’m pleased that my record on predictions has been somewhat better than yours Francis. Actually I quite like Westfield and they have added lots of secure bike parking so enjoy your weekends there. Shame you are missing out on all the fun on Devonshire Road.

Paul Campbell ● 2008d

"without dragging around the ball and chain of an antisocial polluting car for their daily errands in their local neighbourhoods."Do you still have your car ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 2008d

Of course he does. As do the odious heads of local Labour councils., Hounslow and Ealing. Sadiq Khan etc etc .

Maggie Dodge ● 2008d

Interesting tale, Francis.But rather than parking cars, it more focuses the mind on considering exactly what CHR is nowadays – and what it isn't.Can I suggest it's no longer a serious shopping centre?  And that anyone looking to equip a new home would be far better off going to Westfield in the first place, rather than traipsing the length and breadth of the High Road. Sure, W4 has several small and excellent shops that supply various niches in the market.  Shops that many of us support and use when we can.  But they don't tend to compete against one another - and the choices are limited.Typically W4 for example, we now have 2 shops where you can buy high-end Japanese or German kitchen knives  (we used Borough Kitchen).  But (other than good old Robert Dyas) nowhere you can get mid or cheap range kitchen stuff (try Shepherds Bush Market)Where do Chiswickians go to buy a bed?  Or modern furniture?  Or a TV?  Or a computer?  Or shoes and socks and some half decent (or indecent if preferred) underwear?  Or whatever?  Think about it.We recently did a new extension and kitchen but hardly anything we wanted was available to buy in W4.  From floor to ceiling and beyond.  Except a large black repro industrial style French clock from Wheeler's, and a 1930's print of two androgynous dancers plus a pair of art nouveau squirrels, both from the Old Cinema.  Oh yes, all pictured were framed in TGT.  But 3 Tiffany lamps that would have come from Mino's in Acton had to be got on the internet because dear old Mino is no more.The 20mm thick porcelain floor tiles we wanted couldn't be sourced in W4 (orW3) and came down from somewhere north of Leicester.  Dining table is 1958 G Plan but the metal and wood chairs were made in Hackney.  Floating shelves from Glasgow.  And even though we tried getting a sofa from the Sofa Shop on the High Road (far too expensive and little choice) we ended up guess where?  Westfield of course.

Stuart Kerr ● 2008d

I'd be interested to know what items Mr Campbell bought during his visit to Westfield on his bike. Nothing too large or heavy, I imagine - or perhaps he had such purchases delivered?

Arnold Saxton ● 2008d

This is just blather. Whatever efforts are made to make it easier for the elderly and disabled to use other modes of travel a large proportion of them will have no choice but to use the car.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 2008d

Absolutely right!

Jeffrey Cope ● 2008d

Yeh spot on.

Janice Evans ● 2008d

"I'd be interested to know what items Mr Campbell bought during his visit to Westfield on his bike. Nothing too large or heavy, I imagine - or perhaps he had such purchases delivered?"I've cycled, bus'd and driven to Westfield.  The mode of transport had very little to do with the weight of goods purchased (really heavy stuff I'd almost always buy online or get delivered - seems weird anyone would want to buy a fridge and take it home with them!) and more to do with the urgency or who I had with me (kids!).Thinking back to the last purchase I made while cycling there, I went to the Apple Store and bought a watch to stop me forgetting to join scheduled Zoom calls, but I just forget to keep it charged or put it on :-)

Ed Saper ● 2008d

Let's just travel how we do or choose. This system is not fair to all.

Janice Evans ● 2008d

What "system" is that Janice?I honestly don't follow what you're on about.And Jeremy's  “Disabled people have no choice other than use a car..”That's not exactly true.Some can and do ride a pavement/large shop-going invalid carriage.  But many other Green Badge holders (for whatever reason) prefer to use a car which they can park almost anywhere, thus enjoying one of the few privileges of their unfortunate condition  -  and that too is their absolute right.  No questions asked!Elderly folk who are not invalids but possibly unable to walk far or keep their balance also have choices.  They can go by bus and tube free of charge or they can manually pull a trolley or they can get the bulk of their stuff delivered.  They can even run a car and hope, like everyone else, to find a free parking place (rare in W4).  But a certain amount of activity, particularly walking, is a medical must if they are to stay fit and healthy.That's the status quo as I see it..

Stuart Kerr ● 2008d

I need to drive in th summer, did about 30 miles this morning just to park to shop, have change to Eco friendly car and that's it I'm afraid cannot do any more.  Not everyone who needs to drive have a physical disability there aremany other cases that most of you seem oblivious to, suppose it suits.

Janice Evans ● 2008d

What you going on about?Nobody's stopping you doing this...

Stuart Kerr ● 2008d

The preaching by others.

Janice Evans ● 2008d

They dismiss the needs of others, not good, very bad,

Janice Evans ● 2008d

Preaching!Preaching what?And even if you think these "others" are preaching,  you can still choose not to listen...

Stuart Kerr ● 2008d

Less than 6% of trips to shop were more than 5 km in Hounslow, and less than 4% in Ealing, so driving 50 km to shop is pretty exceptional.

Tom Pike ● 2008d

exactly, the point is I'm in favour of change for the better, but it has to be fair to all or it is a failure and meets with opposition.

Janice Evans ● 2008d

Depends where you need to shop.

Janice Evans ● 2008d

Sorry Janice, I'm trying hard to follow but you keep losing me..Are you talking about disabled people or people in general?

Stuart Kerr ● 2008d

Don't mind the driving but it's not saving on pollution, like to go where it's free parking, not busy because of Covid and enjoy it as much as possible.

Janice Evans ● 2008d

Stuart, many people who are not disabled need to drive for other reasons and whereas they would like to help out with the problem of pollution they are having to drive further away.

Janice Evans ● 2008d

Janice -" many need to drive for a variety of reasons."Sure.  Isn't that a lot obvious.What I'm asking (or actually saying) is that nobody can stop anyone doing that.Or let me put it another way..Planet Earth can go out of orbit and disappear in a cloud of smoke - but until the law changes or enough people take climate change seriously - folk can carry on driving to their heart's content...

Stuart Kerr ● 2008d

Oh, and not have to leave within a time.

Janice Evans ● 2008d

I'm talking for all those who need to drive, disabled or otherwise.

Janice Evans ● 2008d

Stuart, yes, these people would like to help out with pollution but are being forced on longer journeys, why can't you understand that this is a problem for the planet and the individual.

Janice Evans ● 2008d

It has not been plan well to stop pollution and personally cannot seepeople putting in the effort for change if they are not help to do so.

Janice Evans ● 2007d

Nobody's forcing you to take longer journeys, Janice..

Stuart Kerr ● 2007d

Stuart, the statement you attribute to me isn't exactly true as you say but it also isn't what I wrote.Nobody disputes that the more all people, including the elderly and disabled can reduce reliance on a car, the better. However, for a large proportion, this is simply impractical, not because they are feckless, lazy or lack imagination but because there is no alternative. The notion that you can some how force them out of their cars is just cruel and suggests that the people advocating this have never been responsible for the well-being of an elderly or disabled person.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 2007d

Stuart! Don't mind longer journeys, love driving and have all the time to do it, sadly many do not have the time.

Janice Evans ● 2007d

Exactly Jeremy, my Mother was registered blind and my husband was disabled due to an accident, they really don't know they are alive do they.

Janice Evans ● 2007d

I'd have thought anyone, particularly the elderly, who need to use a car would and should simply carry on using it.Meanwhile all who can, particularly the elderly, should enjoy a walk to the shops.Isn't that a bit simple and rather obvious.Meanwhile, earlier on I was trying to develop Francis Rowe's post to discuss High Road shopping in general (in the way threads regularly develop round here).  Wasted my time, didn't I...

Stuart Kerr ● 2007d

Never mind, we have solve nothing and never will. 😒

Janice Evans ● 2007d

Your kitchen sounds very nice must say.

Janice Evans ● 2007d

Mr know-all Paul Campbell, you say  "...  while elsewhere people of all ages and abilities get about on bikes and mobility aids as their governments have invested over decades in safe infrastructure for them to remain independent and mobile without dragging around the ball and chain of an antisocial polluting car for their daily errands in their local neighbourhoods. " This is a blatant lie - that is NOT the case.  In answer - living in a very small flat I have no facility to store a mobility scooter and certainly no way of charging one either (same would apply to charging up an electric car which I can't afford to buy anyway!).  I am over 80 and for the past 4/5 years, I HAVE to be on oxygen 16 - 18 hrs a day, using 2 ltrs when just sitting not moving,  as soon as I move, my levels plummet so need 6 ltrs. - that means my mobile oxygen converter with its heavy Lithium battery in a trolley lasts about one and a quarter hours.  Fortunately, once in my car, I attach the oxygen converter via cig.lighter to car battery thus saving the essential oxygen.  Now Mr clever clogs Campbell without a car how would you manage all this on foot or on a bike????My car is my lifeline, without it I have no freedom of movement or independence.  Before lockdown, and now again  very soon, I can drive myself to Richmond Park, to the hairdressers;  meet friends,  park and get into restaurant or cinema, where once sitting I can turn the machine off until needing to move again using my oxygen.  My car also carries emergency supply of two small liquid gas cannisters - they are for emergency use , max 4 ltrs only, until I am  rescued.I am by no means a special case, there are hundreds of people needing oxygen to stay alive.  Are you suggesting Mr PC that we are all a bloody nuisance and should stay locked up and push off this mortal coil as fast as we can!If I were an amputee my car would be medically modified and I'd be allowed to drive within the new ULEZ, which from October 2021, will be my local neighbourhood if Mr Sadiq Khan has his way.  The fact I have all four limbs but can't breathe unaided, under his new rules I and other like me are not considered disabled even though we cannot move or walk very far!!!    We are to be denied our freedoms and independence.    THIS IS BLATANT DISCRIMINATION AMONGST DISABLED PEOPLE - we should all be equally treated and given exemption  permits, alternatively NONE of use should.    There is no option,  I have to junk my fully functioning but old car, buy a new one for the couple of years I have left to safely drive!  My mileage is very small, as will be the case for most of us. PLEASE CONTACT THE AGED AND DISABILITY CHARITIES AND ALSO  NEWSPAPERS TO GET OUR VOICES HEARD AND THIS VERY UNFAIR SITUATION RECTIFIED IMMEDIATELY!  It doesn't make any sense and will adversly affect hundreds of us. 

Jennifer selig ● 2007d

So it seems the cycle lobby are the only ones who walk and consider the environment. Who knew. Funny they seem very fond of massaging their stats too in a way that must have taken years to perfect, or they could just be lying! They also know what every single person gets up to in terms of driving etc. Blimey that’s a skill unless they’re making that up too?

Maggie Dodge ● 2007d

It is simple Stuart but zero sum mentality is confusing it. It is not the case that cyclists winning by getting cycle lanes means everybody else loses. This isn't a zero sum game.With good safe infrastructure designed for cycling more people can choose to cycle instead of driving for many of their local journeys. And that will be good for them and society because it will result in fewer cars on the road and a reduction in the negative consequences that cars create. In places where good safe infrastructure has been built a far higher proportion of people including elderly and less able people choose to cycle or use various forms of mobility aids than do here. Naturally change will take time and the more inter-connected infrastructure there is in an area the bigger the change will be.People who need to use cars can use cars. I am not aware of any schemes locally or anywhere else that stop people from using their cars or anybody saying nobody can use cars. The allocation of space to enable and encourage more walking and cycling will of course result in some inconvience for some drivers but it doesn't remove their choice of transport.  For people who don't need to use cars for mobility reasons and who wish to walk or cycle many of their local journeys they can still choose to use their cars for longer journeys or journeys where they need to use the large amount of space that cars take up. In places with lots of very good safe interconnected cycling infrastructure people use their cars like this and it is totally normal to them that when they make that choice it might entail a more roundabout route than if they walked or cycled, especially for short local journeys in towns and cities. This is the case today but it won't be in the future because private car ownership is costly and inefficient and it will be disrupted by technology and the sharing economy. Pivate cars will be for collectors and hobbyists. Car manufacturers and insurance companies know this and are paying strategy consultants lots of money to develop future business models to try to hold onto their economic interests in a different world. My children will amost certainly not own cars. The impact on the way we use space in cities especially will be profound. In a very good way.It is a good tactic for people to use to try to distill everything down to single use cases that prove that rebalancing road space to enable more choice for more people is totally unfair. I get it. But it is also well understood and very transparent to the people involved in design, engineering, decision-making and politics. They will look at things in the aggregate and they will use hard evidence and data to make decisions. All the way to the top where the PM gets all of this and he did ten years ago when he approved the plans for Cycleway9 on Chiswick High Road as one of a number of arterial strategic cycle routes in London. There will be a few holdouts in central London that will take longer to adapt to a changing world like the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chlesea and Wandsworth but change they will. Outer boroughs like Harrow and Bromley with very high car ownership rates and less connected public transport infrastructure will take much longer to wean themselves off car dependency and it will probably be unstoppable market forces that precipitate change there.As for High Streets it was a good attempt to expand the discussion and I agree that they are already changing, will change fast and will continue to change when the more profound space redistribution happens when private car ownership is phased out. What is happening to Devonshire Road is a good example of this. Leisure is the growing sector of the High Street economy with a bright future.

Paul Campbell ● 2007d

Cyclists are the losers, now stuck in single lane with congestion breathing in all that healthy pollution, the losers are also transport as those who would use it are using cars, so far cars are the winners in getting around.

Janice Evans ● 2007d

Hi Paul,Yup – I don't disagree with that picture.  Even as a non-cyclist, dedicated W4 street-walker and ex-driver who vastly enjoyed the long-gone golden age of driving in and around this city.You seem to have got yourself an undeserved reputation round these parts.  Never mind.  Been there got the T-shirt.  You'll live.Nevertheless there's many inmates developing full blown W4 victim complexes - when there's absolutely no need to cast themselves that way OR feel oppressed...  Given that they've done nothing wrong (as far as I know)...But much of this is reverse-spin, passive-aggressive nonsense – with a few smiling emojis chucked in for good measure.  Nothing they love more than cornering someone who doesn't fit the agenda and then trying to, Nazareth-style, stone him to death I'm getting vaguely interested in how this will all pan out...

Stuart Kerr ● 2007d

I am not aware of any schemes locally or anywhere else that stop people from using their cars or anybody saying nobody can use cars. NOT TRUE if Mr Sadiq Khan has his way. From October 2021, when the ULEZ is extended to all roads within the North &South Circulars, I shall be prevented from driving my car anywhere in my local neighbourhood although other disabled people will be issued with exemption permits and able to continue to drive..    The fact I have all four limbs but can't breathe unaided, under his new rules I and others like me are not considered disabled even though we cannot move or walk very far!!!    We are to be denied our freedoms and independence.    THIS IS BLATANT DISCRIMINATION AMONGST DISABLED PEOPLE - we should all be equally treated and given exemption permits.  Alternatively NONE of us should.

Jennifer selig ● 2007d

Why do you continually ignore the fact that people are driving more when they really don't want to, but have been force to.

Janice Evans ● 2007d

also cabs are unable to take women all the way home to their front doorwhich is very unfair as the streets are not safe.

Janice Evans ● 2007d

Cheers Stuart. The brick bats don't bother me. Nobody likes a Cassandra and it is a lot more comfortable to be angry with somebody else than yourself. The forces driving all of this are big and complex so why not whack me on the bonce and hope that will stop them? Pan out it will regardless of what anybody says on this forum.

Paul Campbell ● 2007d

Agree Jennifer.

Janice Evans ● 2007d

It should work for everyone.

Janice Evans ● 2007d

Paul, who is angry, sounds like you are.

Janice Evans ● 2007d

We can be civilised while we discuss what's has gone wrong.

Janice Evans ● 2007d

Think the main problem here is that you don't realise we actually want it to work.

Janice Evans ● 2007d

Jennifer, think I did suggest you write to Boris, he's not happy with theRestriction on residents in some areas.

Janice Evans ● 2007d

And he actually said that on the box some weeks back, that is not from me.

Janice Evans ● 2007d

Stuart, why are you trying to make matters worse, or are you both toying with the problems of the disabled.

Janice Evans ● 2007d

To quote Ken Munn, TLTR.

David Lesniak ● 2007d

Yeh, that's how it's ends up when the obvious does not register with those who choose to ignore problems.

Janice Evans ● 2007d

"Can I suggest it's no longer a serious shopping centre?  And that anyone looking to equip a new home would be far better off going to Westfield in the first place, rather than traipsing the length and breadth of the High Road"How peculiar.Stuart advocates traipsing around Westfield, but not doing the same locally. Just curious, did you drive to Westfield Stuart?Aside from that, there are at least six retail shops selling sofas and other household furnishings in Chiswick. In addition, there are several bespoke options. I've often wondered if Chiswick was or should become a niche destination curated for fewer types of offer but with breadth and quality readily available.

David Lesniak ● 2006d

Morning David..I'm glad that you of all people have found this post.Because, if you could only drop the acidity level, you're probably the best placed local to make a creative contribution to the retail side of this wide debate.  With the accent on creative.Why do you ask if we drove to Westfield?  I'll gladly give you an honest answer but why did you ask the question?It seems to me that there are at least two extremely different areas of W4 each having a different experience of town living.  If I lived in Grove Park I'd probably run a motor car.  But I don't.  I live in one of the hundreds of small Edwardian houses off The Avenue, about a ten minute walk from the High Road.I'm a townie.  I love the buzz of the shops.  I spend at least an hour a day traipsing around, sniffing life in action -  sometimes turning right at your cafe, strolling up the lane and down to the river, along to Hammersmith and back down King Street.  Taking in all the fascinating little shops.  Other days I might do Acton or Shepherd's Bush.To me, life in Grove Park would be too cut-off from all this.  More like living in the country.  It's a fabulous area to live but very different.  Not for me.Anyway and to return to what I think you're getting at....  Yes,  there are hundreds of reasons why people living where I live need to drive.  Work obviously.  Visiting people who live off the beaten track.  Going back and forth to the golf club several times a week.  The list is endless.  As is a very different list of people who drive all the time, can afford to drive all the time without even thinking about it - but don't need to drive.  With the accent on need.No, we didn't drive to Westfield.  We took the 94 bus like most people do from this neck of the woods.  When I  'need' to drive I hire a car. I use that place near Chiswick Park Station.  It's easy and it's very quick - they keep my details on record,  And it's far cheaper than ownership.About retail.I tossed in a radical suggestion – is Chiswick still a serious shopping centre?  I don't know the answer to that.  But you say you've sometimes wondered if Chiswick was, or should become, a niche destination of quality shops.I also asked -  “Where do Chiswickians go to buy a bed?  Or modern furniture?  Or a TV?  Or a computer?  Or shoes and socks and some half decent (or indecent if preferred) underwear?  Or whatever?  Think about it.”And re my trip to Westfield to choose a very specific style of sofa costing less than £800 you informed me that I could have gone to any of six such shops in W4.If that's accurate then it's a straight me bad and mea culpa - I'm mortified.  I should have looked even harder.  I do try very hard to support our terrific local independents.  But when they don't stock the particular style I'm after (and style is important round here)  we've no other choice than to shop elsewhere.And anyway, the case remains the same.  Gone are the days when Chiswick High Road had large stores that sold a big variety of furniture at a reasonable price.  The large bed shop shop has gone too.  And that smashing little specialist shop Lombok.    Even Clarke's shoes.  And Rift in TGT.  And Massey's...Who knows what direction retail is going in Chiswick?Not me, that's for sure.

Stuart Kerr ● 2006d

Hi Stuart -I'll gladly drop any "acidity" level when the tone of the debate changes from all angles. Was it not you who called Loraine a battleaxe on another thread? But that "why are you so __________" when you and others are precisely ________ with impunity gets tiresome. As I'm sure you know. Add to that you paint some as saints given their contributions here (despite evidence to the contrary) while completely ignoring snide comments made at many contributors made on other social media channels. Maybe the right hand doesn't know what the left is up to.Indeed we are well placed to comment on local retail. Perhaps you didn't get the memo from Paul et al I have been cancelled therefore what I have experienced, learned, tried, succeeded at is all completely null and void. You might hear precisely what I have said from the mouths of others or even read it in TfL stationary in which case it is valid.Having lived in Grove Park myself I agree, it is another world entirely. I asked if drove because I was curious how far you went to find what you wanted. I also asked because you said you thought it was odd people would traipse around trying to find what they needed. And yet you took a bus and then traipsed around the mall.What many people don't know is that most shops, particularly furniture shops, act as showrooms. Many times they barely scratch the surface of what these traders can get for their customers. Many carry multiple lines and within those manufacturers' catalogues, again, more is available than meets the eye.Beds? I can't help with and yes, trade in Chiswick wasn't enough to sustain the two bed shops prior to Heals.Modern furniture? I think we've covered that. Electronics? Until such time as Currys or similar launches a model akin to Sainsbury local, you'll have to go online and to the actual Currys in Brentford. Ditto their competitors. Again the local option, in part, was priced out by local rents and rates to sustain the amount of trade generated locally.Men's clothing? American Pie? Part of what traders can do is listen and pivot. If you don't engage, they don't have the opportunity to listen and try to meet your needs. You can't blame that solely on them.

David Lesniak ● 2006d

Hi David,That's interesting.  And progressive other than chapter one.  I'm afraid I don't do social media besides this forum so I don't get to see the details you mention.  And nobody sends me memos, thank God!A few points.Like most/many shoppers we didn't traipse round Westfield.  Far from it.  We did our homework on- line and targetted Habitat, John Lewis and DFS.  The choice was enormous and we soon found the perfect small sofa for us in DFS.  It was made to fit and delivered free six weeks later for under £700.I absolutely take your point about catalogue buying.  But do you know, that doesn't always appeal.  And I doubt it appeals to many others.  Some retail I like to choose.  And compare with others similar.  And (in this case) sit on.  Also, if I went to a small shop in W4 and ordered from a catalogue I'd almost certainly feel obliged to buy.  Photos and advertising don't always tell the full story.Men's clothing can and does work in a small shop, but not always.  I do like American Pie and the other shop nearby and have bought stuff from them.  But (like the sofa) I recall a couple of years back I was looking for a spring/autumn lightweight black Barbour that would fold small for a trip to Canada.  He had just one in stock but it was nowhere near my size.  He did say he get one in for me in a few days – but I didn't want to put him out getting stuff in and filling his shelves when I wasn't 100% sure what I wanted.  So I took the tube to Covent Garden and walked up to one of the huge Barbour stores.  Tried about ten on for size and looks and found exactly what I wanted.But that's a bit of customer experience of retail I'm sure you know about full well.I don't think anyone “blames” local retail when they can't get what they want.  I certainly don't.  I try quite hard to buy locally.  Which is why I'm wondering just what Chiswick retail will become.And I suspect the answer to that is roughly what we have right now: lots of small exquisite specialist shops, especially selling food and drink.

Stuart Kerr ● 2006d

Paul, yes I agree. The opposition are just digging their heals in. Stuart is not a cyclist and clearly cannot see problems cyclists have to bear every day. So I say to Stuart, take a day out and ride a bike around all day, see how you get on. Your eyes would be opened !

Chris Vessey ● 2005d

Why?How would I know Chris.  But it looks like you're misreading me - when if you followed my posts you'd know exactly where I stand.Re your latest post on this thread, that answer is "No way Jose".  I wouldn't ride a bike in W4 for all the tea in China and a night at the Moulin Rouge all expenses paid.  Far too dangerous.  And I've a track record of falling off said vehicle.So - I'm VERY pro bicycle even though I don't ride one.  I also believe, increasingly strongly, that towns and cities need a substantial decrease in car driving and car ownership.  How that happens is what the debate's about..

Stuart Kerr ● 2005d

Janice who has FORCED you to drive ? I would not force any one to drive. People drive because they are too lazy to find another way. There is always another way to do things, just make the effort to find it !

Chris Vessey ● 2005d

StuartGyles Brandreth has a nifty trike:https://www.gylesbrandreth.net/blog/2020/7/4/th8q3iv2tpyo8wj0xivej555d8i94xMy absolutely ancient uncle rode something that really looked as though it had come off the set of Easy Rider although apparently it was some sort of mobility scooter.There really are different choices as you say.Me - I just prefer to walk at the moment but will at some time expect to go back to public transport.

Philippa Bond ● 2005d

Hi there Philippa..Twenty odd years ago I did own a bike.  It was a vintage post-war Humber.  A beauty of a bike.  I had it restored by Wolesely's on Acton Lane and the owner told me “ thank God they don't make these any more – they're beautifully built,  last forever and I'd go out of business if there were many left around”.That Humber bike was given me by a fabulous writer named Robert Carver (Harper Collins) who lived just off Acton Lane and threw wonderful bohemian dinner parties for a variety of quite famous intellectuals.I'd discovered one of Bob's plays in a pile at Broadcasting House - loved it do death, took it onboard and directed it for Radio 3.  We became great friends and he gave me one of his bikes.It was a very wonderful bike.  Quite heavy with plenty of chrome.  And a loud bell.But for some reason I kept falling off the bugger.  Not that I lack balance.  I was once a star wing three-quarter who could sell a dummy off both feet and run at considerable pace.  Whatever, the bike and me just didn't get on.  C'est la vie.  We weren't a love match.  And I don't wish to end my days crushed under a car on the High Road.So I gave her away to a friend - who continues to take her out for a spin and reports that she's getting on just fine without me, is well loved and sends her best wishes as she approaches middle age.Meanwhile and like you - I walk!

Stuart Kerr ● 2005d