Forum Topic

Taking photos of cyclists

Cyclists can do nothing right - if they cycle in the cycle Lane they have their photo taken and uploaded.  If they cycle on CHR they have their photo taken and uploaded.  People are just going about their dailiy lives and land up on the internet.  Whatever your opinions on the cycle Lane, I think it’s unfair to keep uploading photos of cyclists - especially children.

Lena Armstrong ● 2047d52 Comments

Where / who / what?! 

Ed Saper ● 2047d

I used the cycle lane the other day for the first time. It was ok, I only used it for a short stretch.  My whole journey started from Bedford Park and went south under Fishers Lane. A guy was walking on the same side of the road and there was a car just coming under the bridge (naughty boy, not allowed, he'll get a letter) but I slowed down because I couldn't overtake the guy walking without cycling into the oncoming car but the guy didn't move! I thought it must have been obvious why I slowed so much. There we are.Joined the high road and coming to the bottom of Duke's Avenue I stopped. When the lights went green (big lights) I almost cycled on. Good job I didn't because a car went left across me - quite properly - up Duke's Avenue. (If a light goes green, I think ok, but I saw the separate bicycle red-amber-green lights as well, and that was red, so I stayed put.) When I was on my way home I was in that same lane but wanted to cross the road to get into the short one-way road, the one with the Natwest on the corner.  That one-way - for all of 30-40 yards - goes north. As I approached it a car drove up it to the high road and pulled out. I thought... never seen that before!  Anyway, turned right at the top, past the Health Centre, down Fishers Lane. Under the bridge, still more pedestrians. Not that much of a nuisance but I moved out of their way and carried on. You think cyclists are arrogant... Fishers Lane pedestrians are the new cyclists! By the way, I never wear lycra....

Simon Temple ● 2047d

"... but wanted to cross the road to get into the short one-way road, the one with the Natwest on the corner."  Clifton Gardens.  You evidently missed or chose to ignore the No Right Turn signs banning that turn.

Richard Jennings ● 2047d

As Simon says he was on his way home, I assume he made a left turn into Clifton Place. If in fact he made an illegal right turn, there would be nothing remarkable about the manoeuvre - car drivers regularly do it.

Robert Fish ● 2047d

No, I was heading from (direction-wise) Waitrose to TGT and wanted to go left into Clifton Gardens. I think that's ok.

Simon Temple ● 2047d

I didn't do anything illegal. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I crossed the road on my pushbike from around about the florist to Robert dyas (ish - I'm giving you the rough geography) and then went left down Clifton.

Simon Temple ● 2047d

Ah, in that case you didn't do anything illegal. Apologies.

Richard Jennings ● 2047d

No probs Rich. I have done illegal things in the past so I'm not beyond reproach.

Simon Temple ● 2047d

Lena, do you think it fair cyclists use helmet cameras to record anything they deem important and then upload it to Twitter?

David Lesniak ● 2046d

Good morning, absolutely not.

Lena Armstrong ● 2046d

Both are usually grossly unfair to the people involved. The cyclists papped on Chiswick High Road not using CS9 could have perfectly good reasons for not using the cycleway particularly if they are travelling north. I often cycle on the High Road where people have been photographed and then 'shamed' on social media. The interconnections for cyclists with the route from the north are poor but this doesn't necessarily mean the CS9 is useless to all cyclists.As for the posting of traffic confrontations on social media from helmet cams, these can sometimes be instructive although clearly criminal driving should just be sent directly to the police. However, most of the videos posted are not as clear cut as the person putting them up seems to believe. Jeremy Vine often puts something up hoping to promote a Two Minute Hate against some poor driver but more often than not who was actually in the wrong was actually quite ambiguous.The use of photos and videos in this way shows that people on both sides of the argument have lost their sense of perspective and fairness.

Mark Evans ● 2046d

Cyclists with cameras have only one thing in mind... they're zealots.

Simon Temple ● 2046d

I don't think that is necessarily the case. I have considered getting one as any regular cyclists will come across bad and dangerous driving on a regular basis (as indeed will regular drivers) and I don't think it would be fair to call me a zealot. Wouldn't however dream of putting anything on the internet - if I thought a criminal offence had been committed I'd send the footage to the police.

Mark Evans ● 2046d

So why record it? For entertainment? Cyclists with helmet cameras use the film for social media reasons - shaming other road users.

Simon Temple ● 2046d

I suppose I could dig out my historic collection of cyclists going through red lights, but they'll already have the evidence from their own camera helmet.

Peter Evans ● 2046d

Couldn't agree more Pete. Aggressive hypocrites.

Simon Temple ● 2046d

Sorry if I've misunderstood this thread - who is taking photos of cyclists, why are they taking photos and where are they being published?

Ed Saper ● 2046d

The photos are appearing on Twitter and Facebook posted by people who oppose the cycleway.Their reasoning is flawed i.e. that because some cyclists aren't using it, it isn't necessary and the notion that cyclists are obliged to use the cycleway is a dangerous one because it will lead to some motorists acting aggressively towards cyclists.As a cyclist who will by necessity need to cycle along Chiswick High Road and not use the cycleway, I would strongly urge these people to stop. It is only fair to point out that video and photos are being posted by both sides to make their case often showing individuals who have actually done nothing wrong.

Mark Evans ● 2045d

It is bizarre that drivers think they can't go somewhere when their wheels can't go there. Only a very small proportion are in that category.  Perhaps they don't do enough walking first or cycling first before they become drivers?  They don't seem to be aware that it is a lot more tricky to cross roads to turn off when you are not protected by an enormous metal box.  Many of them are just big bullies.I did wonder whether the lady whose picture appeared on twitter on the internet on the bus island had posed for that picture and understood that it would be posted online? If it had been me and used like that I'd have been absolutely flipping furious. I'm not surprised that cyclists have cameras on their helmets considering some of the aggressive driving on the roads.  We desperately need speed cameras and more regulation to reduce speed.  When it has been MAX 20mph for ages they still they don't get it. I don't think that many people realise how close they get to each other when overtaking and the risks they are taking with their own and others' lives.

Philippa Bond ● 2045d

A lot of cars have dash cams these days — often see their footage posted on Youtube.  Is that equivalent or different? I found #ChiswickChaos on Twitter — feels fairly good natured.  Didn't see the lady on the traffic island though. I got the impression that locals on this forum were organising to take photographs of people in Chiswick in order to intimidate and abuse.  

Ed Saper ● 2045d

"Many of them are just big bullies"Cyclists are saints? Faultless?As for the cameras, Philippa, you're well aware cyclists can be aggressive. So yes, we desperately need cameras to record all road offenses and a means by which to penalize those who don't obey making it safer for everyone.But your demonizing one subset while offering up impunity for the other sounds hollow at best. 

David Lesniak ● 2045d

Right now I think it is still drivers who are targeting cyclists and jumping on any and every bandwagon they can think of to intimidate them.As many others have said on here they drive, cycle and walk.  There needs to be more concentration on allowing everyone to be able to walk and cycle safely instead of trying to bully them off the road. I've complained before about cyclists who run red lights and weave at speed through pedestrians especially on zebra crossings where they overtake cars and other cyclists who have stopped and endanger the lives of pedestrians crossing.  David - will you stand up for cyclists who don't break the law?

Philippa Bond ● 2045d

When I've used the bike, I've made a point of always waiting at the lights, even when the roads are empty and real cyclists are sailing through the red lights. But then I don't think of myself as a cyclist, just someone who sometimes rides a bike.  Not sure how long I'll be able to maintain that cognitive dissonance though.

Ed Saper ● 2045d

"David - will you stand up for cyclists who don't break the law?"Why wouldn't I? Would you stand up for drivers who don't break the law and who don't antagonize cyclists?Philippa I think you're being disingenuous by trying to tarnish all drivers for the behavior of a few. Either that or paranoid. No different than painting all cyclists as evil because a few choose to break the law and cycle on the pavement or run red lights. My new favorite example of this is to watch cyclists headed east approach the light at Chiswick Lane while in the cycle lane, then cross the High Road to mount the pavement on the north side, cycle across the pedestrian intersection at Upham Park Road and then come back down to the High Road in front of the Futon Shop. They used to just run the red light all while on the north side of the road. Now they cut across all traffic (on-going and turning) to access the pavement, cross the road, access the pavement again then get back on the High Road. Brilliant to watch but I won't have any pity when someone gets taken out by vehicle. It is stupid, selfish behavior that they alone should own.

David Lesniak ● 2045d

Ed, the logic of some of the pictures posted on social media by these groups is that Cycleway 9 isn't working because some cyclists aren't using it. People have had their pictures put in the public domain when they are doing something they are perfectly entitled to do and is totally consistent with making appropriate use of CS9.My concern is that the already very present danger of hostility towards cyclist simply for being on road for general traffic will increase and, for most of my journeys I need to do this. That said, thus far I have not had a even a dirty look when I have done this so far.

Mark Evans ● 2045d

"There needs to be more concentration on allowing everyone to be able to walk and cycle safely instead of trying to bully them off the road."I'll narrow that down, Pedestrians should be able to walk on pavements, use crossings, cross wide roads with refuge islands, cross roads when the green man is showing (thus its red for cyclists and motorists) without the worry of having cyclists competing for the same space !With regards to your question to David, I'm willing to support cyclists who don't break the law, unfortunately there's many who do break the law who are a danger to Pedestrians. I don't believe anyone is trying to bully cyclists  in fact it is exactly the opposite the pro cycling lobby, and you appear to support them,  use bullying tactics against motorists.Finally, cyclists and pedestrians are not a good or safe mix, anymore than motorists and pedestrians are, which is why we have roads and pavements...

Loraine Pemberton ● 2045d

OK — got it.  Speaking as someone who rides a bike but isn't a pro cyclist, I'd never use the road if there was a cycle lane.  But I get it — if you've been cycling down CHR for a decade or more, you've got no real reason to use the cycle lane, especially if it is full of novices, cargo bikes, kids and extra stops. I still think it would be good manners to use it given the council has spent cash building it and diplomatic as car & bus drivers are miffed they've lost a lane

Ed Saper ● 2045d

"I'd never use the road if there was a cycle lane."Well you probably would in some cases.Let's say you have cycled from Kew Bridge along Wellesley Rd. You arrive at the junction with the High Rd more or less opposite Waitrose.You are now going to head east along the High Rd with the objective of using the nice quiet Fishers Lane up into Bedford Park.Do you:a) Head for C9 to please the motorists and have no opportunity to take your preferred route or...b) Turn right on the main carriageway and then turn left into Clifton Gardens?I do this nearly every day so I am now immune to the scowls and agitated finger pointing.

Will Watson ● 2045d

Jeez — turn left off the cycle lane and cross traffic — I haven't attempted such an advanced manoeuvre yet!

I'm usually coming up CHR from Gunnersbury, so I'd usually go up Acton Lane or through the Sainsbury's market to get to the back streets. If I was coming from Kew, I'd still probably go with Acton Lane to Bedford Park, because I know that bit as that's how I biked into South Acton during lockdown when Chiswick Park was closed. My point wasn't that I'd never leave CS9 or break the rules — just that I feel a lot safer on it, so I'd use it whenever I could. I realise I didn't say that! So you were right to call me on it :-)

Ed Saper ● 2045d

Maybe we should move more towards something like the area outside the Science Museum.

Philippa Bond ● 2045d

Shared pedestrian and cycle areas within no-car zones are fairly common in Europe. I heard that the accidents tend to be worse when traffic is segregated — bikes are going faster and there's less attention on pedestrians wandering into the lane. And fewer accidents in mixed areas because cyclists are slower and on the look out for pedestrians, small kids etc. One of those counter intuitive things :-)

Ed Saper ● 2045d

Having been there today (for a Covid vaccination in the Science museum), I don't think this would work in a place like Chiswick High Road - far more traffic, far more people likely to need to cross the road, far more buses etc. etc. etc. On the plus side (for some anyway) there is parking available for residents!

Andrew Jones ● 2045d

I wouldn't use Acton Lane coming that way. There is a hill and a couple of tricky mini roundabouts. You could, if you weren't in a hurry and don't mind dismounting, cross Turnham Green then cut up by Essex Place and then cross Belmont Road towards Fishers Lane. However, the quickest way is to stay on the High Road and use Clifton Gardens as Will does and I would too. Lots of the cyclists pictured on social media appear to be using this very valid and justifiable route.

Mark Evans ● 2044d

Actually I think it is a bit scary outside the Science Museum.  The cars must be controlled by lights I guess out of sight.  All of a sudden they are racing towards you!  It is nice not being pushed off a kerb in the pavement because it is too crowded.  I'm sure you get used to it if you live work or study there.  I don't like coming out of Sloane Square station onto the level pavement/road only to find cabs nearly running over your toes.

Philippa Bond ● 2043d

Anyone know how many diagonal pedestrian crossings there are in London.  When using the one at Battersea last time I was there I was passed by 3 cyclists so not a good experience.

Patricia Hensby ● 2041d

Increasing numbers of traffic lights at junctions now provide 'all green' periods for pedestrians, so you can cross diagonally if you know the set up, but very few provide a Tokyo-style diagonal crossing to confirm the arrangement. The problem is that many drivers and riders assume that the lights must have gone wrong if all the traffic options are on red at the same time to allow pedestrians their own phase.

Peter Evans ● 2041d

Serves you right for going south of the river.

Simon Temple ● 2041d

Women DO go South as they grow older ! Have you not noticed Simon ?

Chris Vessey ● 2041d

Chris - I think that's a very immature comment. So I won't respond to it. Oh shit.

Simon Temple ● 2041d

You two remind me of a double act..the fabulously unfunny Mike and Bernie Winters, only nasty with it.

Keith Iddon ● 2041d

I agree, Keith.I blame man caves.

David Lesniak ● 2040d

If things are said out of fun can see the funny side etc., re: the originalpost don't think it should be allowed to use photos of children.

Janice Evans ● 2040d

'About as funny as a burning orphanage'.

Keith Iddon ● 2040d

Well get your meaning but I don't get offended easily.

Janice Evans ● 2040d

My reply related to our two resident 'comedians',Janice.No offence or slight intended on you.

Keith Iddon ● 2040d

Or no sleight intended, apologies..

Keith Iddon ● 2040d

That's o.k can see why some don't like smutty jokes but once where I work a chap ask me if he could have a photo of me in a bikini, that horrified me because it was real life and felt intimidated.

Janice Evans ● 2040d

Uh, Janice, how is it different for Simon and Chris to be drooling publicly over a bikini-clad woman vs your personal experience? Sounds like an its-me excuse if ever there was one.Note to Chris - I'm not the one objectifying women.

David Lesniak ● 2040d

The reason is it was more personal, can accept a joke that's bit near the mark on T.V or here or even in a crowd of friends  because it could referto anyone but in the workplace and to ask when alone he just walk into the office when I was alone it was creepy.

Janice Evans ● 2040d

If you are referring to the ladies going south Mr David, may I say the same happens to old blokes too. The filth is in YOUR mind !! Clean your head out and try to be a little more refined will you please !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chris Vessey ● 2040d

Getting back to Lena's original post, should we be concerned that photos of children cyclists are used in this way.

Janice Evans ● 2040d

Janice NO we should NOT tolerate photographing children in this context or any other. Most definitely strictly NOT !!A child is a person under the age of 18 years and clearlythe older kids are not easily identifiable, so then what do you do ? So in my opinion it's better not to photograph anybody, and then the problem goes away.

Chris Vessey ● 2040d