Forum Topic

Dukes Meadow Bandstand

So the bandstand and adjacent shelters are scheduled for removal. There are apparently no plans to replace them, it will just be a bare patch of asphalt. There must be something that is economically sound to replace them with. Any ideas?

Carl Wynne ● 2054d55 Comments

Why is the bandstand being removed?  That is awful.

Claire Moran ● 2054d

What is the source of your information Carl?

Bernard Allen ● 2054d

The bandstand is not being demolished.The two shelters are in poor condition and require refurbishment. Quotations are being obtained for this work.John

John Todd ● 2054d

Thanks for clearing that up John. I need to find where I read that they were beyond economic repair and so were due to be removed. I'll come back on this.

Carl Wynne ● 2054d

Skateboard area / ramps etc

Simon Temple ● 2054d

Is there still a Dukes Meadows Trust.

Janice Evans ● 2054d

I read the same thing as Carl, that they were beyond repair but, like him, can't remember where.

Susan Kelly ● 2054d

Now it's going to bug me until I find the source!

Carl Wynne ● 2054d

Is it used for anything?

Simon Temple ● 2054d

Carl,That may well have been an early assessment.I  made representations following similar local  concerns and my earlier post on this thread is the current position.BestJohn

John Todd ● 2054d

The Band Stand is structurally sound.A local private company provided the £10.000 plus funding to make it structurally sound.The council just erected barriers around it when it was considered unsafe, and were going to do nothing about it.OK it leans a fraction and doesn't look all that pretty, but at least its as sound structure and wont fall or blow over.The two shelters are in bad condition, what hasn't helped is letting visitors rapping them in Polythene and lighting fires inside, its a wonder they haven't burnt down before now.

Bernard Allen ● 2054d

It was posted on Twitter by someone in Barnes. Dukes Meadows Trust built and is solely responsible for the maintenance of the the paddling pool. It also built and shares maintenance of the play area, planting up and maintaining all the shrub beds and up until the most recent repairs, paying for all repairs. Last year the Trust gained a London in Bloom award for the park to add to the Green Flag the park holds.The Trust planted the orchard and four years ago improved the entrance to the Meadows from Riverside Drive, with wooden bollards. a new avenue of Hawthorne trees and bulb planting. The Tete a Tete daffodils are in bloom now. We planted another 15 Lesser Limes set back from Riverside Drive a few months ago to finish a new avenue.These improvements arose from a masterplan the Trust created for the public area of the park 20 years ago, after extensive public engagement. It has worked since to successfully implement that plan. When the Trust started the whole of the Meadows was derelict, fly tipped and plagued with vandalism and cars being joy ridden and burnt out.The Trust would be pleased to work with the council to regenerate the Promenade.

Kathleen Healy ● 2054d

That's the one Kathleen, posted on Thursday 11 march.

Carl Wynne ● 2054d

Bernard, yes, the Trust raised a grant of £10,000 some years ago from a bank to carry out urgent structural repairs to the band stand.Plastic gutters and down pipes had been attached to two of the wooden beams, although it wasn't designed to have either. The downpipes had been damaged so that water was being carried straight down them and had completely rotted one away, which is why it leans that way.A very kind engineer who lives in Hammersmith and was a friend of Ricky Grimes who created the standing stones by Corney Reach surveyed the band stand and designed a fix that involved cutting away the lower part of the beams and fitting steel pins and concrete. We got a grant from a bank for the work.I still see him and his wife at the food market, not naming them as he may not want that, but he helped us save the bandstand.Once repaired, we organised a Fun Run and got the Fulham Brass band to come and play. It was a great day.

Kathleen Healy ● 2054d

Have often wondered what it must have been like back in the day. The magnificent gates and steps down to the Thames, the bandstand, the two huts. The two serious gentlemen and ladies buildings that are back down on the level of the sports grounds. Does anyone know who built it and why? What went on? A lot more fun than it is now I'm sure. Dont tell me it was just for the Boat Race

Stephen Gould ● 2054d

Copy and paste this url into your browserhttp://dmtrust.dukesmeadowspark.com/ariversideboulevard.html

Bernard Allen ● 2054d

Thanks for that Bernard and thanks to that Council. If it had happened today it would almost definitely become an industrial site.

Stephen Gould ● 2054d

Or flats

Maggie Dodge ● 2054d

Great to read Bernard, thanks for posting.

Bob Guyett ● 2054d

Thank you Bernard, most interesting.        "The Scheme, which received the first prize and was submitted by MR A. V. Elliot, of Chiswick "I wonder what A V Elliot would make of the shiny stainless steel structure being built under Barnes Railway Bridge?I do hope that after the bandstand has been renovated no bright spark thinks the dense undergrowth and trees on the far side of the carriage way needs 'tidying up' and destroys a natural habitat for native wildlife as has been done to accommodate crane access for the cantilevered walkway.

Adrian Irving ● 2053d

AdrianDo you think that the two old turning circles by the bandstand are big enough for the modern day coaches ? As that’s what’s going to be constructed , with extra parking. So some of the hedging will probably be cleared back to accommodate these projects.There was a consensus years ago to reduce the amount of traffic that visits dukes meadows, most arrive by car or coach, so some of the ideas that were looked into have been discarded.The idea was to make it easier for visitors to use public transport by crossing the river using the second redundant Barnes bridge.Also encourage the sports clubs to provide their own parking arrangements on their facility rather than blocking the surrounding residential roads.Go and look at what our wonderful council have done to Boston Manor Park, it will give you some idea what may happen to Dukes Meadows.

Bernard Allen ● 2053d

Thank you Bernard for the update. No I don't think a the existing turning circles would be and I am dismayed to read that the undergrowth will be ripped away to create parking.I note in the front page article the natural woodland that has been destroyed to provide access is conveniently described as "scrubland" as if to say it had no value.For me the charm and character of area is that it has been left unkempt and left to nature. Replanting it with willow saplings is the worst possible thing for natural diversity. Horrible.I could go on but won't except to ask again, can someone, anyone honestly come up with even one good reason why this bridge is needed? No one has to date.

Adrian Irving ● 2052d

I think the idea came from the Thames Strategy document.They looked at the Thames path in detail and came up with an overhaul plan for a continuous Thames path from Tedington to London.Light years ago local people were consulted about the Barnes Bridge area, and one thing that came at the time, was you had to leave the Thames path  and divert down Dan Mason Drive , under the bridge and back up the Promenade by the boat houses. Some people found that in a winters evening they were unsafe using this route, along with many other reasons.As there is a walkway under Barnes Bridge on the Surrey side, the parks management company at the time started to look into ways to link the Thames path on the Middlesex side. Plans were drawn up for a tunnel under the embankment and a walkway under the bridge.So if you can find. A Copy of the Thames Strategy Document it will probably give you an insight to why certain projects have either been install or are still being talked about.Since that strategy was drawn up, I have seen many Chiswick residents move out and the newer residents have know Idea of what is or was going to happen in their area. I even got asked last year where Dukes Meadows is, So you have to start re-educating the residents again, as sometimes, something that was agreed to be built years ago suddenly starts being built and nobody knows what’s going on.It’s come a long way since those days thanks to local residents who got together approximately 1998 to save the football fields from disappearing and then carried on working in the park.

Bernard Allen ● 2052d

John, please can you advise why access and the site base to build the footbridge was not planned to go on the Chiswick Boat Club side? Putting it on the other side will mean that construction traffic will cross Staveley and Alexandra Gardens, two residential neighbourhoods and a school route. It seems very disrespectful of people in these neighbourhoods to expose them to lorry traffic at the same time that great lengths are being gone to to make other residential neighbourhoods car free and to create safe school routes.Traffic will also go along Riverside Drive and the Promenade, which are currently heavily used by people enjoying the park. Accessing via Chiswick boat house would have meant that site traffic accessed via Dan Mason Drive, which has no residential intersections. It is also fairly quiet at the moment being mainly used by traffic to the sports clubs, which are closed. Accessing via Chiswick Boat House would also have involved less environmental damage as there is already a clear route down onto the foreshore and a large open area.Finally, why still no engagement with Dukes Meadows Trust, whose volunteers have done and still do so much in the park. Is that not recommended good practise? The Trust commissioned the first feasibility study that identified the footbridge as the best option to join the Thames Path and improve public transport access for the clubs upstream and have lobbied for it since. It is sad that the council won't work with parks groups, who know their parks very well and whose only interest is protecting and improving them for people to enjoy.

Kathleen Healy ● 2052d

"Some people found that in a winters evening they were unsafe using this route, along with many other reasons"Thank's again Bernard. You are certainly well gened-up.I can understand people being nervous on winters evenings however this reason doesn't stand up even to the lightest examination.You only have to consider for a moment the surrounding approaches to both the existing tunnel and new bridge.They are poorly lit, wooded, and with endless places for bad people to lurk. Going via the bridge makes no difference.Would anyone not feel nervous or at least uneasy to walking in the area after dark? I know I would.I look forward to hearing  the "many other reasons" from anyone else.

Adrian Irving ● 2052d

Nothing is ever beyond repair, it's just a question of the right tradesmen and the right budget.

Viv Griffiths ● 2052d

Adrian This is the 2002 document that borough about some ideas and projects http://www.thamesstrategy-kewtochelsea.co.uk/files/full-strategy-document.pdfThe part about this area I’d character reach 2 Mortlake, Barnes, Dukes Meadows.There are 319 pages, but if you have enough time have a read of the whole document.

Bernard Allen ● 2052d

Hounslow have long wanted to get rid of this area and to achieve its purpose have done virtually no maintenance and left it to rot away.  Not long ago they proposed turning it into a coach park.It could be a fantastic site for a cafe/restaurant or some other valuable amenity.  They should be prepared to give it up to a select developer to produce something suitable for the public to enjoy.

Elizabeth Ross ● 2052d

Adrian You say felling unsafe wouldn’t be reason enough to build a walkway.That’s strange, as Hammersmith Bridge is closed, the walking and cycling residents of Barnes felt unsafe using the route over Barnes bridge and along the promenade on their way to Hammersmith.So Hounslow Council sign posted a safer route from from Barnes bridge down to Barnes alley and into the housing estate and onto other estate as a new route to Hammersmith, which has street lighting.

Bernard Allen ● 2052d

"You say feeling unsafe wouldn’t be reason enough to build a walkway."Sorry if I haven't made it clear but that is not what I am saying.What I am saying is bridge or no bridge it makes  no difference to people feeling safe in that area after dark particularly when you consider the poorly lit, wooded areas you will exit from either side.As you mentioned it, I can see Hounslow have signposted a route. Signpost overkill with them about every hundred yards or so.Barnes Alley may be lit but  I am always on alert going down there even in broad daylight.Incidentally, as you probably know security guards have had to be engaged on the rail bridge as kids were  mugged when crossing.Times we live in I guess.

Adrian Irving ● 2052d

The cantilever footbridge wasn't in the Thames Strategy report. On page 20 it shows a yellow bubble on the railway bridge and says "potential enhancement of railway bridge for pedestrians and cyclists". That referred to the proposal to open the disused footbridge on the upstream side of the railway bridge. Following on from that Dukes Meadows Trust commissioned a feasibility study which concluded that it wasn't feasible to open the disused footbridge as it would need to be DDA compliant. On the Chiswick Side a long path with a shallow rise could be built along the embankment, but the Barnes side would have needed a new, long ramp along Barnes Passage or a lift. The conclusion was that that made reopening the footbridge unfeasible. The study also looked at putting a new tunnel through near the river, but as Network Rail would be unlikely to consent and it would be very expensive that too was deemed unfeasible. A footbridge under the railway bridge, as on the Barnes side was identified, as the most feasible option.It was included as a proposal in a later transport and access strategy commissioned by the council. Architects were commissioned and designed a bridge. I remember it being show at a meeting at the Golf Club, but then the project stalled. I believe due to objections from the PLA. It was revived late on in the recent masterplan process, as a good way of improving access to the new sports facilities, that were to receive millions in investment from various sports bodies. It will make public transport access to those facilities possible. A big potential user group is schools and the Housnlow line stops near just about all the schools in Hounslow and on to Staines in one direction and Putney and Wandsworth etc. in the other direction.

Kathleen Healy ● 2052d

Or, Elizabeth, work with the Dukes Meadows Trust which has successfully regenerated a large area of the park.

Kathleen Healy ● 2052d

"It will make public transport access to those facilities possible. A big potential user group is schools and the Housnlow line stops near just about all the schools etc"That should read; it will make public transport access to those facilities marginally easier. To say "possible" is misleading. Using the tunnel will take only a few minutes more. Eight, when I walked it.Do schools come by train often? Coach is the transport of choice surely.

Adrian Irving ● 2052d

Adrian, at the moment, the vast majority of users of the facilities arrive by car or coach. The walk from the station to the clubs is around 20 minutes along a road with no footpath, that is dark at night.The clubs know how people get there. As well as making it easy to get there, it will also be cheaper for schools, as the kids will have travel passes, much cheaper than having to book a coach. The clubs were desperate for the bridge to happen, it will make the facilities more sustainable in economic and environmental terms. It will also make it more attractive for adult players to stay and socialise after, if not driving. That will also support the sustainability of the clubs, as bar takings are an important part of their revenue. Just wish it wasn't so expensive. At £4 million the tunnel might have been cheaper, if Network Rail would have agreed it.

Kathleen Healy ● 2052d

Kathleen, I admire your hard work and commitment however to expect the bridge to have the impact you outlined is, at best wishful thinking and that is putting it as politely as I can.£4m? Who knows. It was 2.5m when first published on here so already way over budget or grossly miscalculated.I hardly think  encouraging adults to stay longer because they can drink more is a plus point for a sports club or that they will knock back so much more to make any significant impact to the bottom line.Environmental terms? How does saving an short walk make any impact? How about the impact of a year's construction, tons of steel to be made, transported and erected to say nothing of disruption to the rail services and destruction of woodland?The irony of saving schools money has not escaped you I am sure considering funds were transferred from the schools budget to pay for the footbridge in the first place

Adrian Irving ● 2052d

AdrianAs you are in the area so many times, why don't you join the Dukes Meadows Trust.They have been very successful in regenerating a lot of the park, and you wont have to keep asking for answers on 20 years of work and consultations.By the way not many locals use Barnes Alley while walking, there's no escape out from half of it.

Bernard Allen ● 2052d

The Environmental benefit is from people travelling by public transport rather than driving or having to coach in.I am guessing you aren't involved in any club based sports. Bar takings are an important source of funds. Partly a beer, but also food, coffee soft drinks etc. If some of the group can stay and have a beer or two they are likely to eat and others will stay and have soft drinks. Approve or not that is a fundamental of club finances. Having no access to public transport is a major draw back for any venue.

Kathleen Healy ● 2052d

Kathleen, my mother's family were public and and I have run a club so your assumptions are incorrect.Why do you keep saying "no access to public transport"  when that's not true. Whilst we are on the question of the environment I wonder where all this stainless steel is coming from,? If it was coming up river it follows it was dockside loaded. Does this mean it is coming from overseas I wonder?

Adrian Irving ● 2052d

If you remember Bernard you asked me about mucking in before.My name is on the list of volunteers and I have turned up to do my bit.Unfortunately Sundays are no longer good for me as I have been volunteering at Charring Cross Hospital instead.If things change, then who knows.

Adrian Irving ● 2052d

That's publicans not public.

Adrian Irving ● 2052d

Wont get under Hammersmith bridge. Its not open to Navigation Adrian just admit it you personally don't like the walkway, don't wont it to be built.Well why don't you do something constructive about it.By the way the football and rowing clubs in dukes meadows have  quite a few members as drinkers, going by the amount of empty barrels that hung around their premises, before Covid pandemic.One club is the local hostility for local residents, as for the price of the membership, the drinks and food is still a load cheaper than a restaurant or public house.My daughter was a licensee and she made more money on her restaurant than beer sales, shorts were another subject.

Bernard Allen ● 2052d

I think they volunteer on a Friday now.

Bernard Allen ● 2052d

"Wont get under Hammersmith bridge. Its not open to Navigation"The original plan was to come up river as restated in the front page. Slots are now available and I have seen a few craft going under."Adrian just admit it you personally don't like the walkway, don't wont it to be built."Well spotted."Well why don't you do something constructive about it."What do you suggest? TNT maybe? 😁

Adrian Irving ● 2052d

We do indeed and will be pruning the Cornus in the paddling pool this Friday. Forecast sunny, so lovely day for being outdoors.

Kathleen Healy ● 2052d

Adrian, a trial has been running for many years testing whether the sports facilities are close enough to public transport that people will travel to them that way. The result of that on going trial is that they won't and don't. They drive or are brought in by coach.

Kathleen Healy ● 2051d

Kathleen, the question you should have been asking is, if you could save yourself an extra eight minute walk from the train station would you then come by train instead of by car or coach?Bear in mind the person would have to get to their departure station by car, bike or walk, time their departure to catch the train, wait on the platform for one to arrive then cross the rail bridge and then walk to their sports club.I will lay heavy odds on the answer being, nice idea but thank you, no.

Adrian Irving ● 2051d

Just thought, then this person would have to repeat the journey on the way home.

Adrian Irving ● 2051d

Keep plugging becoming boring Set up a pet ion against the construction of the walkway Because I am sick and tiered of hearing about the bloody thing, bearing in mind I have to live the rubbish who will use it.Maybe turn your efforts into the proposed coch and lorry park that is going to be constructed.By the way the coach parking is for coaches that are carry tourists for events in London, then they come back out to park in Dukes Meadows and the residential roads. They are not for events held by local sports clubs.If you could see the amount of land that king house school sports club takes up on Dukes Meadows, and still they use and block residential roads in the area.If things get back to normal you won’t be able to ride or walk safely along the promenade.If this goes ahead all the efforts of Dukes Meadows Trust  to create a safe walking and cycling entrance along the Promenade Approach Road to the park will be in In vain because the local authority won’t listen to them or the local residents

Bernard Allen ● 2051d

Bernard I make no apology for being boring but there is a simple answer to that.Tell me, in your own words, not someone else's report why you fully support the project and make a strong case that could convince me to change my mind. If you can then I will bore you no more.Thinking about it I am unclear what your views are For, against, or not bothered either way. Enlighten me.BTW I am a realist and understand there is no chance in hell of stopping the project.PS what do you mean by" I will have to live the rubbish who use it"

Adrian Irving ● 2051d

I basically couldn’t care lest about the walkway.There are more important projects that need to be ,kept an eye on.The term rubbish doesn't relate to normal local park’s users, sports men and women  or stake holders, But I have been verbally abused whilst volunteering in the park, so I call these people rubbish, but I think you would find them anywhere.

Bernard Allen ● 2051d

"I basically couldn’t care lest about the walkway."Then may I respectfully suggest you find "more important" threads to comment on and stop boring yourself with mine.

Adrian Irving ● 2051d

To add to Bernard's comment about coaches and Kings Hse School. I was on my allotment right by Riverside Drive today and saw a minimum of 3 coaches and 3 double deck private buses plus at least 2 smaller coaches all with children aboard heading towards the river. This was between 12.30 ish and 1.45 pm. None of them dropped off and came back so I'm guessing they were heading for the school.There looked like a lot of youngsters on the school playing field when I looked across on my way home.Its good to note that the cricket club just into Riverside drive have catered for coaches by enlarging the gate to the car park.

Bob Guyett ● 2051d

May I suggest you refrain from messing about in my back yard

Bernard Allen ● 2051d

Bernard, your backyard I would respect however we are discussing a public open space and therefore I will continue to make my views known.That is of course unless you could have made a good case for the bridge. You say you don't care one way or the other which is very strange particularly as you imagine it's your backyard.

Adrian Irving ● 2051d

Considering that I, alongside other local people have put 20 plus years of conservation work into such a run down park. I think you can forgive some of the many volunteers and trusties for defending our working patchBut in my opinion the walkway  project has to many stake holders involved with their own rules and regulations, and a local trust isn’t going to get much say in what’s happens, neither do the local residents, although it has very little impact on us a finished project. But we are going to have to put up with the extra traffic it will create which will pass the end of our road, that has enough traffic using the road now, let alone when we get further into the summer, when the coaches and lorry’s start using the new parking and turning circles that are being created by the Council.

Bernard Allen ● 2051d