Forum Topic

Hartington Road - Cycle Lane

My husband and I were walking along Hartington Road yesterday past Roko Health Club.  A man and his son (looked to be a teenager so not young) were cycling on the pavement towards us.  We had to move and ended up n the cycle lane.  The father looked a little embarrassed but made no attempt to apologies.A couple of moments later a woman came cycling along the pavement with a poodle trotting behind her.  Again we ended up in the cycle lane at which point I asked her why she was not using the dedicated lane to which she replied 'I have a dog'.We've stopped using the tow path due to cyclists on there and now they seem to be using pavements rather than cycle lanes.How can cyclists become accountable for mis-use of pavements?Not to mention the poodle - who I'm sure not sure is the best dog to have running behind a bicycle but happy to be put straight on that one!

Anne Meagher ● 2080d236 Comments

Why can’t dogs run alongside their owners on the cycle lane. Is it marked ‘no dogs’

Steve Taylor ● 2080d

I know Steve - I was speechless after her comment!

Anne Meagher ● 2080d

Surely the dog's lead between dog and its owner/cyclist is a real trip hazard for the unaware.

Jennifer Selig ● 2080d

Never like to see dogs having to keep pace with a cyclist as dogs don't like to be continually running and in the hot weather even worse.

Janice Evans ● 2080d

Agree with you Janice.  Jennifer the little dog was on a lead but I can't imagine how much enjoyment he/she must get from running behind or alongside a bike without being able to stop and have a good sniff.

Anne Meagher ● 2080d

Is it a segregated cycle lane?If so, I don't see why kids and dogs should still be on the pavements - they're safe from the cars and out of the way of pedestrians.I know a 7 year old who looks like (and wears the clothes of) a 13-year old, so judging age can be tricky - they might have been younger than you think! It is frustrating if after all this work and money invested in cycling infrastructure, cyclists don't use it.  Even the speedy pro cyclists should use it - if for no other reason than to be diplomatic :-)

Ed Saper ● 2080d

On our walk yesterday, we passed 3 cyclists all cycling on the pavement right next to the cycle lane near to Kew Bridge.....A few weeks ago my husband on his way back from mini Sainsburys (by Kew Bridge) asked a cyclist why she was not using the cycle lane - her response: I don't f**king have to..... there you go!

Diane Tomey ● 2080d

Snapshot from this morning at CHR and Chiswick Lane about 8:30am:One guy waiting on his bike in the new bike lane at his signal on the south side of CHR. Four or five of his cohorts across the street headed west on their bikes using the roadway on the north side. This intersection has a new pinch point courtesy of the cycle lane so CHR is now far more difficult to navigate. The cherry on top? When a car pulled directly into the cycle lane in front of the guy on his bike who was waiting for his signal to change. Happens every single day throughout the day. Gets worse in bad weather which I can't quite figure out.

David Lesniak ● 2080d

They won’t use it. It’s too dangerous and the majority of cyclists didn’t ask for yet another cycle lane. The arrogant cyclist was quite right though. She doesn’t have to use it. She could have told your husband more politely though. No need to swear. Possibly once they don the silly little helmet, testosterone kicks in and all civility is diminished.

Steve Taylor ● 2080d

Most of the cyclists I see on CHR seem to suffer from red/green colour blindness. Do any laws apply to them?

Colin Jordan ● 2080d

Ed, it's not segregated (except at a couple of traffic island slaloms), but is merely a bit of paint on the road. And paint is not protection. Been there for years, by the way, so no recent expenditure, even on upkeep.

Ken Munn ● 2080d

The Hartington Road cycle way is one I know well.  In Autumn it is a slippery mulch of wet leaves that LBH rarely clears.  It is blocked at several places by car parking spaces requiring cyclists to veer into the main lanes - basically it is a design disaster.As for poodles going for a jog with the cyclist, please do not do it. The lead is an accident waiting to happen and that is before you consider whether the dog is capable of unbalancing the cycle with a sudden movement (obviously less of a problem if it was a toy poodle, but a standard poodle is a big beast)

Justin Stephenson ● 2080d

Is Hartington Road almost traffic free? They may not have spent money on a cycle lane Ken but they’ve spent money on various measures, installing cameras and permits etc haven’t they. Can’t keep track , I don’t go there any more so not sure what the traffic is like there now

Maggie Dodge ● 2080d

Not traffic free, but certainly quieter than it was. Drivers' speeds don't seem to have reduced though - perhaps even increased with less drivers coming the other way to slow them down.

Ken Munn ● 2080d

So another expensive failure that massively inconvenienced lots of Chiswickians . Nice one !

Maggie Dodge ● 2080d

Eh - a traffic reduction is an expensive failure?

Ken Munn ● 2080d

Thanks Ken.  I took a quick look on Streetview as well.I'd use it if I was on my own.  But if I was with a young child, I'd likely be on the pavement as well - I would be effusively apologetic though!Perhaps the "dog and bike" combination is difficult to justify on either pavement or cycleway....but would make a good pub name :-)

Ed Saper ● 2080d

It's reduced because only 2 tiny CPZones CS & RV in Grove park can go in and out @ Hartington Rd / A316 traffic lights!  ALL other motorised vehicles, have to make looping diversions in often heavy A316 traffic  negotiating around Chiswick School, Staverly Rd barriers and/or tight left turn over Chiswick railway bridge to get back to Hartington Rd.

Jennifer Selig ● 2080d

The cycle lanes in Hartington road are very poorly maintained, often filled with debris and  more often than not have cars parked on them on the weekend.  I have sympathies with young kids being on the pavement but the dad should have shadowed by cycling on the road.As for the comment regarding the tow path, I fail to see the problem with cyclists using it,  its legal and if its Covid your worried about I would be far more worried about the endless stream of joggers and walkers who sometimes walk in 3s with their dogs and in all honesty do not look they are from the same house.

Matthew Swain ● 2079d

Reducing traffic on one road to increase it elsewhere. The signs that you cannot possibly. take in whilst driving past! The stress of not knowing where you can drive in an area you’ve lived in for 60+ years, fines because you’ve misunderstood or not seen the badly placed sign. What sort of person defends this nonsense? I’ve got an idea 🤔

Maggie Dodge ● 2079d

The kind of person who wants to improve things. Next question.

Simon Pedley ● 2079d

Hartington Road is very wide, plenty of space for everyone. All it needs is courtesy and respect for other road and pavement users which seems to be sorely missing reading some of the comments here. Traffic is down significantly but would say that car speed has increased. Obviously anecdotal. As one of the "lucky" residents in the hallowed zone, I still find it slightly surreal and ironic that I now live in a semi privatised street in a Labour run Council! The various LTNs in Grove Park and Strand on the Green are over complicated, confusing and are channelling traffic past schools and narrow streets and nothing has been done to address the issues of speed and dangerous junctions or roads such as Fauconberg Road or the junction at the bridge.

Cecile Parfitt ● 2079d

But Simon thinks it’s an improvement ?

Maggie Dodge ● 2079d

Its not just Simon who thinks it's an improvement.

Matthew Swain ● 2079d

“ The cycle lanes in Hartington road are very poorly maintained, often filled with debris”Aah yes. That old excuse again. So in effect another waste of tax payers money.  So many of these unused cycle lanes around London now, it’s absolutely disgraceful. And so much misery caused for pedestrians, motorists, emergency services and businesses.

Steve Taylor ● 2079d

Stevie,  you appear to have omitted part of what I said,  an oversight I am sure: 'The cycle lanes in Hartington road are very poorly maintained, often filled with debris and  more often than not have cars parked on them on the weekend'

Matthew Swain ● 2079d

Are the cars illegally parked in the cycle lane?

Maggie Dodge ● 2079d

I reiterate. A total waste of money then, Mattie, if cars are allowed to park on a cycle lane. Another waste of space not fit for purpose.

Steve Taylor ● 2079d

Except the Hartington Road lane is not unused. But as you stay at home (and hector the rest of us to do the same) you wouldn't know that.

Ken Munn ● 2079d

In reply to you Michael - the junior was definitely a teenager and looked confident on his bike.  His dad looked a little embarrassed.Commenting on the tow path - the signs say clearly cycling not allowed.  I stopped using it after a cyclist clipped my arm whilst going past at speed.  Luckily she stayed on her bike and my arm was ok but when you reach a certain age you don't really want to be at the mercy of a bike hitting you which is how I came to be in the cycle lane on Hartington Road last Sunday.  How can you think there is enough room for cyclists and walkers on the tow path?  Especially if cyclists are whizzing along.My reasons for not using the tow path are not due to Covid rather don't wish to be barged out of the way by cyclists and joggers who move at speed.

Anne Meagher ● 2079d

Ok so they are used. There are no cars and no debris so everyone is happy and Mattie was telling porkies. So it’s all clear now. Must admit that I haven’t used Harrington Road since I lived near there some years ago and now only use about once a year en route to dentist. I bow to your superior knowledge of the cycle lane useage on this specific route

Steve Taylor ● 2079d

Anne - what are you describing as the tow path? Strand on the Green or the path along the Surrey Bank of the Thames? If SOTG, yes cycling not permitted. If Surrey then it's a shared path. Pedantry - not sure either can actually ever have been a tow path. Don't think vessels of this part of the Thames were ever towed from the shore.

Ken Munn ● 2079d

If you were to list all the road changes, closures, restrictions, cameras etc. In Chiswick in recent months it would be a very long time list.  All restricting motorised vehicles and supposedly benefitting cyclists. When will the cycle lobby give an inch?

Maggie Dodge ● 2079d

Generally certainly on this forum when we speak of the the towpath we refer to the Surrey path even if technically the STOG path is a towpath in itself. If it's the Surrey side, yes I do think its just about wide enough to accommodate cyclists and peds going each way. It's not wide enough to accommodate people walking side by side sometimes in three's with dogs in tow though.

Matthew Swain ● 2079d

Gee, Simon, why don't you just tell Maggie to f*ck off?Clearly you support these measures at all costs everything else and everyone else be damned. F*ck 'em. Simon's happy. Job done. Hounslow had a way to alert people to these changes they did not use. A good old letter drop which would have reached far more people than this forum. It would have reached people who don't use their phones as a lifeline and those who might not have any connectivity whatsoever - yes, the exist. They could have reached out to businesses to engage their help. They could have rolled out a community-minded approach. They did none of those.A paltry box-ticking "consultation" with the follow-up of penalties does not win over any fans. Failing to actively tweak a system when faced with emergency repairs here, there and everywhere did them no favors. That's on them. Plans crumbling under the microscope of legal scrutiny only adds to suspicion which, sadly, is earned. Historically at that.Your scorn and superiority are inappropriate.

David Lesniak ● 2079d

The automotive industry spends £1000 of the price of every new car sold on advertising and lobbying. It sure ain't a level playing field.I offer you one headline (Independent): Budget 2020 promises £640bn for Britain’s infrastructure with 4,000 miles of roads upgraded. More are available from your usual search engine.

Ken Munn ● 2079d

Question: What do cyclists contribute in monetary terms?

Jeffrey Cope ● 2079d

Question: What do cyclists contribute in monetary terms?Counter Question - How much does it cost the NHS and taxpayer to manage the damage (health wise and not) caused by pollution from vehicles?

Matthew Swain ● 2079d

Question: can we manage without motorised vehicles?Question: can we manage without bicycles?

Maggie Dodge ● 2079d

Question: can we manage without bicycles? Answer - Not unless you don't want any Olympic models..  and if you want approx 750K of daily cycling journeys in London to be done in alternative ways.

Matthew Swain ● 2079d

I can live with that

Maggie Dodge ● 2079d

In my case VED for my car which is used a lot less than my bike, locally. Plus VAT on every bike repair and accessory. Plus income tax.

Ken Munn ● 2079d

And motorised vehicles?

Maggie Dodge ● 2079d

Apologies for any confusion - I was referring to SOTG tow path.

Anne Meagher ● 2079d

I would like to see cyclists be licensed.

Anne Meagher ● 2079d

Agreed. Cycling there is prohibited.

Ken Munn ● 2079d

I am myself critical of badly-behaved cyclists (and drivers, and pedestrians) however before spending money on yet more cycling provision Hounslow council might be better advised to take care of what's already there. I took this picture in Hartington Rd on November 22nd and as I recall the road wasn't due for its (one and only) leaf clearance for quite a few weeks.

Bruce Hammal ● 2079d

I think more speed cameras are needed as there seems to be a lack of self-control and moral fibre. I also think that cyclists need to be taught to be more aware of pedestrians.  In Gunnersbury Park the other day two children raced by from behind on the shared path.  I mean raced - raced fast - with not a concern in the world for pedestrians.  They need to be taught to keep their distance and use a bell to advise rather than tell everyone to get out of the way.  They did neither.

Philippa Bond ● 2079d

I have long thought that there is no point in having regulations when there is no real will to enforce them - 20mph speed limits being an obvious one. Unfortunately a fair proportion of human beings will ignore rules if they don't think they will be caught. So by all means have cameras to catch speeding drivers. I would also have regular and random stops to hand out on the spot fines to pavement cyclists and red-light runners as well as pedestrians who think what's on their phone is more important than looking where they're going. Before lockdown when I was out and about I would regularly see drivers still openly using phones. The occasional stop and confiscate patrol might at least make people think. I saw about 20 police officers making random stops of vehicles in Hammersmith the other day - I'm fairly sure it was to ask the reason for the journey under Covid regulations so it can be done.I know this all sounds very big brother but as we learn every day far too many folk think the rules don't apply to them. Sorry for the grump!

Bruce Hammal ● 2079d

So is it agree we can’t manage without motorised vehicles?

Maggie Dodge ● 2079d

Cycling is permitted on towpaths. Pedestrians and joggers use cycle tracks. It strikes me you just dislike cyclists. Suggest you acquire a bike and start getting the miles in, it would do you a world of good plus you will soon see first hand what cyclists have to put up with. Bet you never complain about motorists although they kill 1500 and injure 131000 each year on our roads.

Chris Vessey ● 2079d

The Hartington Road cycle tracks are in the gutters of the road and are generally full of s h 1 t. They are not like the C9 Cycle route in CHR.

Chris Vessey ● 2079d

Chris - I'm pretty sure cycling is NOT permitted on Strand on the Green tow path, not that you'd know it I nderstand from all the many complaints.

Jennifer Selig ● 2079d

Matthew Swain I thoroughly entirely agree with your comments re towpaths, cycling, pedestrians and covid puffing joggers. What is it that gives joggers the right not to give space/distance/or even stop once in a while.

Chris Vessey ● 2079d

I heard about athletes who need to train the other day and I wondered why there weren't athletic tracks open.  Or are there?

Philippa Bond ● 2079d

Causing huge misery to motorists is good, very good. They really are the killers in our community be assured, be very assured !

Chris Vessey ● 2079d

Have any improvements been made for cycling in Grove Park? If so I’ve missed them.

Russell Pearson ● 2079d

And other costs incurred by treating 131000 injured on the roads by our beloved motoring fraternity. When will the penny drop ?

Chris Vessey ● 2079d

Agree with you about joggers. They are now equally despicable as cyclists but that is only because of Covid and the joggers spread their mist without a care in the world. Selfish bastards or just incredibly thick?

Steve Taylor ● 2079d

Most towpaths side of the Thames are cycle friendly.I don't use Strand instead I ride Thames Road. I only mount a pavement if a Bin Lorry is blocking the middle of the road. All the local roads are filled up and trashed by nose to tail parked up cars and service vehicles have great difficulty squeezing round these local roads.

Chris Vessey ● 2079d

I have cycled/walked every day for the last year in a loop which includes Chiswick House, Dukes Meadows, Hartington Road, Thames Road and Strand on the Green. In Chiswick House, cycling is allowed on the tarmac paths. I cycle very cautiously and ring my bell when pedestrians in front of me take up the whole path. I always thank them if they move over. In the autumn, the cycle paths along Hartington Road were clogged with leaves but they have been cleared now and there really is no excuse for riding on the pavement. I always walk my bike along Strand on the Green and most other cyclists do, too. Where the path goes under the railway bridge it is very narrow. Most people are good about waiting for people coming in the opposite direction but some joggers in particular do not. It almost needs traffic lights at this point. We just need to be more tolerant of each other and obey the rules.

Susan Jennifer Thackray ● 2078d

Have you noticed joggers in the cycle lanes? Seen it a few times along Hartington and they seem to like running in the opposing direction to oncoming bikes causing detours into the road.

Russell Pearson ● 2078d

"Counter Question - How much does it cost the NHS and taxpayer to manage the damage (health wise and not) caused by pollution from vehicles?"Counter question is it? Seems a bit of deflection if we're being honest.If it's the NHS you're worried about Matthew, please could you point us to your efforts with regard to anti-smoking initiatives, your anti-drink initiatives, your pro-exercise initiatives, your anti-obesity initiatives, anti-vaping is another good one, anti-processed food, etc. Shouldn't be too hard given your passion.

David Lesniak ● 2078d

"What is it that gives joggers the right not to give space/distance/or even stop once in a while"Give it a rest, Chris.Simply ask yourself this: what is it that gives cyclists the right not to give space/distance/or even stop when cycling on the pavements? Or now, when not using the brand new cycle lane put there exclusively for their safety?

David Lesniak ● 2078d

"and they seem to like running in the opposing direction to oncoming bikes causing detours into the road."That makes perfect sense so that the cyclists can seee them coming and move over.

Steve Taylor ● 2078d

Are these joggers on suicide missions ?

Chris Vessey ● 2078d

It makes sense for the joggers to face oncoming traffic (Highway Code, Rule 2), but NOT to hog the cycle lane so that cyclists have to move over.  That would potentially cause a cyclist to move in front of a following car.Why should a cyclist have to move out of a cycle lane? The jogger should move on to the pavement to let the cyclist pass.

Richard Jennings ● 2078d

Joggers in the cycle lane, cyclists on the pavement. What next, canoeists in the middle of the road?

Russell Pearson ● 2078d

From Monday (the 15th) Hounslow Council have been issuing PCNs to drivers of vehicles (not registered on the white list)  turning in to Hartington Road from the A316.On Monday 64 tickets were issued.

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2078d

Wonderful

Paul Campbell ● 2078d

The Steer Consulting Report on the Interim Review of the Borough's Streetspace schemes is out soon.

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2078d

Paul Campbell a true cyclist . Tells you everything you need to know about him and his buddies.

Maggie Dodge ● 2078d

There’s no gain for cyclists and it shunts local traffic down Burlington Lane. Far better ways to manage cut through traffic. They have the technology but don’t know how to use it. Their new traffic guy even admitted so on the webinar.

Russell Pearson ● 2078d

I wasn’t suggesting that the cyclist move into the road. The cycle lane has ample space to accommodate a cycle passing a jogger without veering into the street.

Steve Taylor ● 2078d

I wasn’t suggesting that the cyclist move into the road. The cycle lane has ample space to accommodate a cycle passing a jogger without veering into the street.

Steve Taylor ● 2078d

“ On Monday 64 tickets were issued.”Disgraceful. Causing traffic jams and higher pollution on other roads.

Steve Taylor ● 2078d

"The cycle lane has ample space to accommodate a cycle passing a jogger without veering into the street."Have you actually looked at the Hartington Road cycle lanes? I think you'll find that they are not more than 1.5m in width. To enable a cyclist to pass a jogger safely, you would need a width similar to the narrowest sections of the 2-way cycleway on CHR, which are 2.7m wide.

Richard Jennings ● 2078d

Proof? As opposed to conjecture.

Ken Munn ● 2078d

"Why should a cyclist have to move out of a cycle lane? The jogger should move on to the pavement to let the cyclist pass"Richard I know you hate those who are improving cardiac health in the face of a respiratory virus pandemic. For my money smokers are more of a risk to the NHS than those jogging. I digress. But let me ask this and perhaps you can have a think:Why should a pedestrian have to move off of the pavement? The cyclist should move on to the cycle lane to let the pedestrians pass.Seems reasonable, no?Case in point: late Tuesday afternoon walking from Cranbrook Road onto CHR in front of Parle Pantry. A pinch point for the pavement on the South Side. There were about four to five pedestrians. One mother on her bike with the child cart thing in tow with a toddler on her bike behind that. All wobbly. All on the pavement immediately outside the cafe. All pedestrians forced to bob and weave to let her pass. Mom and kids less than a meter away from the very bike lane put there for them. For that very purpose. And yet it was the pedestrians forced to scramble off the pavement for safety.Seems bonkers, no?

David Lesniak ● 2077d

"Wonderful"Tell that to the tradesmen in vans making that turn unaware. These are the people servicing your needs, Paul. Would you be willing to pay for the PCN yourself or do you expect them to eat this additional cost on your behalf because you feel entitled?

David Lesniak ● 2077d

There are signs up David,  big yellow ones on the A316 and more signs on Hartington Road itself.You cant spend criticize cyclists for ignoring signs and then excuse motorists for doing the same.

Matthew Swain ● 2077d

Can someone post a copy of the sign on the 316 before the left turn? I recall it being too much info with days and times that you can’t take in whilst driving. But I’m wondering if I’ve got this confused with another road.

Maggie Dodge ● 2077d

You're right, Maggie. Like the sign restricting entry into Staveley Road from the A316 at certain times, the warning sign about Hartington Road is insignificant, especially when you're driving. It's almost as though LBH wanted people to contravene the restrictions and collect revenue from the resulting fines. Perish the thought!

Colin Jordan ● 2077d

Thanks Colin. I’m always nervous of posting mis information for fear of being jumped on

Maggie Dodge ● 2077d

Not sure what you're banging on about, Matthew. But I do look forward to Paul answering the question vs your lame attempt at attacking me.I criticise anyone not adhering to signage. I never excused a motorist for not doing the same.If you had followed the bouncing ball, the question had to do with tradesmen accessing this area to do work on Paul's home as an example. Often these are people not from the area so they'd have less knowledge of these schemes and/or the familiarity of are is suddenly rendered useless. Add to that, mid-day supply runs to swiftly deliver their skill to you is the norm. So if they need to run multiple errands and that should be made more difficult adding more time it will in turn add more cost. Simple question: are you willing to pay more for these services as a result of these measures?

David Lesniak ● 2077d

Yesterday I did a delivery near Pitzhanger Manor. I'm not great in that area so I relied on SatNav. On the way back to Chiswick it took me further along Mattock Lane. Without warning I approached an intersection with one of these signs just above the intersection. By that point it was too late. No previous knowledge offering a sort of get-out-of-jail free card, just the sign above the beginning of the enforcement zone. A sign at the gate as it were. Since SatNav usually gives you a heads up when approaching speed cameras on the highway, surely it can offer the same advice in these circumstances. I'm still not sure if I will get a PCN. I had two options: reverse to avoid and do a U-turn or make a right and get the hell out of there. With cars behind me and next to me the reverse option wasn't possible. Had I known an LTN zone was ahead, with appropriate notice I could have avoided it. That said, it appears Ealing has seen the error of its ways so perhaps no PCN is coming.

David Lesniak ● 2077d

Problem is , nobody seems to possess common sense out there. All motorists are speeding, jumping red lights, not stopping at zebra crossings, using mobile phones while at the steering wheel, pedestrians walking on cycle tracks, pedestrians suddenly across road without looking, pedestrians more interested in their smart phones than their own safety, the list is endless, THE WORLD'S GONE NUTS !

Chris Vessey ● 2077d

What an utterly fascinating post, Chris.You take aim at everyone. But cyclists. Indeed, NUTS!

David Lesniak ● 2077d

I don't have a problem with cyclists ok ?

Chris Vessey ● 2077d

Made a point of going along the 316 today, was specifically looking for the signs for Hartington, whilst also concentrating on driving of course.  I only saw signs on Hartington Road itself, so you would only see them as you turned in.  Is this right, were there some further back that I missed.

Maggie Dodge ● 2077d

There were two on the A316 coming in from the south this afternoon. Both were clearly visible to worms, as they had fallen down flat.

Russell Pearson ● 2077d

Came over Chiswick Bridge at 17.10 this evening travelling east. No signs visible concerning no left turn into Hartington Road. I did pass some sort of sign lying flat in the grass, face down, so have no knowledge of what it said.Anyone who wants to quote me or wants help to challenge a PCN I'll do all I can to assist. Please PM me.Several cars in front of me had no hesitation in turning left into Hartington Road, so I can only imagine they had no knowledge of the  restriction.

Jeffrey Cope ● 2077d

Good to know I’m not going mad.

Maggie Dodge ● 2077d

TfL are responsible for the 'permanent'signs on the A316 and Hounslow have had to beg their permission to place additional A frame signs on the verge (that then blow over).Has anyone seen any signage on the A316 travelling towards Chiswick Bridge that advise you not to turn right into Hartington Road?I predict a bumper crop of PCNs.

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2077d

To clarify, Chris, you don't have a problem with cyclists illegally on the pavement? Running red lights? Using mobile phones?

David Lesniak ● 2076d

I am at a loss to understand why any of these organisations are being allowed to get away with this poor signage! Is there no one to report this to who can come and make a judgement. I’m so fed up of complaining, we all know it’s happening. The police maybe should be following up , someone, anyone . No wonder they do it when they appear to be able to get away with it for months on end. What kind of society are we living in, what kind of people are we allowing in organisations such as TFL, criminals ?

Maggie Dodge ● 2076d

You're making all this nonsense up, I never ever see cyclists running red lights or on mobile phones. Why do you feel the need to make all these fibs ? Cyclists are most definitely the most reliable, most aware road users be assured; it's about self survival !

Chris Vessey ● 2076d

"Why do you feel the need to make all these fibs"Chris, join me for my morning dog walk on Turnham Green where HT meets CHR and you'll have a good view of the Diagonal of Doom and the HT/CHR junction both east and west bound.There you'll witness all the traffic contraventions you ascribe to motorists but committed by cyclists. I'll even buy you a coffee

Loraine Pemberton ● 2076d

Emergency Ambulances coming to me normally approach from A316 to me in Hartington Rd, from CX Hogarth down A316 turn right to H.Rd and West Mid, quicket route is via C.Bridge turn left to H.Rd - that short stretch takes but a few minutes.  Detours much longer by that time I could be "brown bread" like a beached whale!  So much for LTNs making for a better and safer area!  Baloney in my book.

Jennifer Selig ● 2076d

Ambulances and other emergency vehicles are exempt from the Hartington Road restriction.See Traffic Management Order 2020 No. 117, section 4, on the third and fourth pages of this file:https://www.hounslow.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/2984/hartington_rd_chiswick_-_restricted_access_-_tmoe03920.pdf

Richard Jennings ● 2076d

I saw an ambulance making a u-turn on Harvard Hill this week when it came upon the barrier, so a bit of a detour for them.

Vivienne Cox ● 2076d

Thank you Lorraine for your kind offer of a coffee. Over the last 26 years and 231000+  miles I have witnessed only a few cycling misdemeanours, yet on a daily basis I am subjected to dangerous driving incidents by foolhardy motorists. Incidentally many on this discussion site have mentioned it is only the "worms" which can see the signage on the A316 re Hartington Road; so this morning on my daily"lockdown circuit" I personally picked them both up and secured them with heavy sand bags, so now all drivers will be able to see these well before turning left into Hartington Road, and saving them the threat of a PCN. So now you can see I really DO love all the kind motorists in our community.

Chris Vessey ● 2076d

I came north over Chiswick Bridge about half an hour ago. The Hartington Road restrictions sign is still flat on its face.

Colin Jordan ● 2076d

if that is the case then somebody must be shoving them over. I put them both securely upright earlier today approx 1100hrs.

Chris Vessey ● 2076d

I'm perfectly content speaking the truth, Chris.Try it sometime.

David Lesniak ● 2076d

Obviosley a clever scheme to keep you permanently employed (paid?) Chris - quite a busy one too back and forth between these unstable but rather vital for drivers road signs.  Well done TfL and LBH!

Jennifer Selig ● 2076d

Just cycled past. The signs are up, and all bagged down. Plus there’s several large metal signs saying permit only and a camera symbol on them. Plus smaller ones. Can’t be missed now. Whoever makes these signs must be loaded.

Russell Pearson ● 2076d

Re ambulances being exempt what about the BOC emergency chap who comes out immediately when my oxygen converter turns its toes up, which  happens anytime of the day or night.  I have a stand by cylinder but not big enough for long hours, short time use to tide me over until rescue chap arrives.  The BOC people are rushed off their feet, non-stop for them  as we're all pretty vital cases - none survive for long without oxygen!  However LTNs making our previously safe pleasant neighbour hoods extra special REALLY SAFE  takes precedent and adds ££££ in fines to the council coffers in the process!

Jennifer Selig ● 2076d

I re-erected the signage purely out of pity for those unsuspecting drivers turning left into Hartington Road.I was dressed as a cyclist at the time as I am usually, that is what I do "I am a cyclist" and an OAP at that.That signage was b....y heavy, if someone has blown it down again, it can stay down !

Chris Vessey ● 2076d

I just cycled past, dressed as a motorist ;-) they were still up.

Russell Pearson ● 2076d

YES, they are back up because yours truly PUT THEM UP !Let's hope they stay up, what's the odds ?

Chris Vessey ● 2076d

He He it takes all sorts !

Chris Vessey ● 2076d

Oh dear, Chris seems your job is ended, unless .....!

Jennifer Selig ● 2076d

Doubt it Jennifer there's no end to my attributes !

Chris Vessey ● 2076d

The entry into Hartington Road is aimed strictly at "rat runners" and not delivery merchants so your BOC supplies will not be affected at any time Jennifer.

Chris Vessey ● 2076d

Chris are you sure about that and delivery vehicles too where is that stated on any Hounslow documents please?

Jennifer Selig ● 2076d

Chris is wrong about delivery vehicles.  There is no exemption for normal commercial deliveries.  However, there is an exemption for ambulances, blood service, and "providing a response to an emergency at the request of an NHS ambulance service".  The BOC emergency service is obviously in that sort of category, but I guess is not actually covered.  I suggest you should explain your situation to traffic@hounslow.gov.uk, and ask if they would include the BOC service as an exemption.Well done to Chris, though, for his sterling work in re-erecting the signs.  Here is his handiwork:

Richard Jennings ● 2076d

Still feel that’s ambiguous. It sort of leads you to think that just before the 320 yards there would be an alternative. Who anyway carries a good idea of 320 yards in their head?

Vivienne Cox ● 2076d

"aimed strictly at "rat runners" and not delivery merchants"Unfortunately, Chris, this isn't true.Local businesses, let's call them merchants, are not able to access these roads without penalty to deliver their wares. The community they service has been severed from them. Going the long way around costs more time and money reducing any margin. You may have noticed with the pandemic trade is already severely curtailed so reducing margins only makes matters WORSE!

David Lesniak ● 2075d

Those signs are enormous and very heavy. Not easy to stand up with a stiff breeze blowing over the bridge. There are two more big new signs saying “Resident permit holders only 150 yards” on Hartington. Wasn’t stopping a steady stream of vehicles yesterday evening at 5pm. I don’t see how people can get so irate by the odd cyclist missing a small round no cycling sign when drivers have given us such an abundance of empirical evidence in the last six months that people just don’t see signs until somebody makes them.

Paul Campbell ● 2075d

Vivienne, I take that signage as indicating that if you turn left at the next junction, you will are only allowed to go up to 320 yards down that road if you don't have a permit. I would expect that around 320 yards down Harrington Road there would be a No Access sign and if you go past that sign you need a permit.The signage isn't saying you can't turn left. And it's not saying there would be an alternative either - if there was, there would probably be no need for this sign in the first place.I suppose part of the 'problem' is that when the current road signs were drawn up back in the 60s (?) we didn't often have things like permit restricted roads, so the road and traffic people are trying to convey the message with existing signs that didn't have these sorts of schemes in mind.

Andrew Jones ● 2075d

Does anyone have a photo of the sign just inside Hartington from the Chiswick Bridge end.

Maggie Dodge ● 2075d

I presume all essential delivery merchants including buiders BOC should apply to Hounslow Council for a permit ?When I first read the info on this restriction the timing on the camera at ENTRY and the timing on the camera at EXIT would clearly decide who was rat running and who wasn't. That made sense to me since rat runners would not be likely to hang around to avoid a fine would they ?

Chris Vessey ● 2075d

Only those in the 2 nearby CPZ can enter. Not seen any other exemption permits. It’s a manually run database, which they say is too expensive to scale to allow others to enter. I’ve been asking for months why they set it up that way, but the officers in charge keep resigning.

Russell Pearson ● 2075d

"I presume all essential delivery merchants including builders BOC should apply to Hounslow Council for a permit"How exactly would that work? What would the timing be? Does the added time and cost get added to the customer's bill? Construction requires countless tradesmen and suppliers who need access to a site. Do each of them need to get the permit? Do you expect them all to have to pay? Why should they be penalized? How would you expect the marble supplier from Merton, for example, to learn about the scheme?

David Lesniak ● 2075d

One simple solution would be for the restricted access to only operate during the morning and evening rush hours. This is what is being implemented after all on the so called school streets.Our Lords and masters are not prepared to consider this sensible common sense approach because it would not be in the spirit of TfL's Low Traffic Neighbourhood (LTN) philosophy. Apparently there is no gain if there is no pain for motorists (and those reliant on motorised transport).  The Thames Road / Strand on the Green Scheme is different but equally bonkers. It has yet come into force because certain knuckleheads failed to place the ANPR camera orders in good time (because we did not know that the funding was secure) and now everyone and her granny wants to buy ANPR cameras ....When the Thames Road scheme comes in you will be allowed in "for access" and can enter and exit by different routes. However there is no explanation of what "for access" means other than that it will be on a timed basis (and not a white list). But they are refusing to tell us how long you have to linger "for access" in order to avoid a ticket. Absolutely barking mad.So if I live in Richmond I will (after the lockdown) be able to drive over to Strand on the Green and go to one of the river pubs/restaurants without any fear of a fine. But if I live on Hartington Road I will not be able to drive along Thames Road on my way to go to a pub in Richmond without receiving a £130 PCN. Totally bonkers.

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2075d

I haven't got a clue, so therefore there must be a simple answer. After all residents must be having regular supermarket deliveries so these should be exempt, so my conclusion must be that all other tradesmen (people) are also exempt. If not life won't be worth living in that area. Also this scheme is designed to cut out the rat runners through Strand on the Green via Thames Road and that part of Hartington Road up to Cavendish Road, so should you enter Hartn Rd from A316 then you are permitted to turn right into Cavendish Road and make your way to the railway bridge and onwards.....perhaps ? Great fun this but not if you live in Grove Park/Strand !

Chris Vessey ● 2075d

I sometimes wonder if we haven't been selected to be part of an experiment to ascertain just how far it is possible to push people and get away with it.

Bruce Hammal ● 2075d

We will never know, or get to understand the logic - Mr Frost and Sharland have both gone. We now have a system where no one really understands why it was made, how it’s actually supposed to work, or where it’s going.

Russell Pearson ● 2075d

"so should you enter Hartn Rd from A316 then you are permitted to turn right into Cavendish Road and make your way to the railway bridge and onwards.....perhaps ? Great fun this but not if you live in Grove Park/Strand !"Chris now you are really confusing me and I think you are wrong.I live in the White List CS CPZone in Htng.Rd just beyond Cavendish Rd junction.  Plumber working in my home needs 2 washers to finish the job.  Out he pops to the merchant just over C.Bridge.  He drives past the camera at Roko on H.Rd to A.316 lights, turns right (is that permitted now???  I've no idea).  For sure Chris, he definitely cannot return that way - he cannot go past that camera by Roko, no he must detour up to Staverley Rd, unless school street in in operation, then he must go further up A316 to Burlington Lane - either detour is a time consuming fiddly journey in traffic!  How is this mad scheme helping anyone, especially the residents.  Why would any workman want to accept a job in this area??? 

Jennifer Selig ● 2075d

Anyone know what reason was given for installing this scheme? Can tradesmen park once they get to your home? Can’t get my head around it !

Maggie Dodge ● 2075d

Fortunately I do have off road parking but have asked if carer can come and go and if I can apply for exemption permit for them - the answer is NO!

Jennifer Selig ● 2075d

It’s inconsistent, isn’t it? For the Thames Road one, a carer could enter, get to the relevant property and help as usual and then exit either end. For Hartington Road, no chance of entering, helping as a carer and then exiting south of Hartington again, so definitely not rat running.

Vivienne Cox ● 2075d

Chris, by our logic all local businesses doing deliveries in service to this community should be exempt.On this we can agree.

David Lesniak ● 2074d

Think we can safely agree on that point, with care tho !

Chris Vessey ● 2074d

No dog should be running behind a bicycle - or running for that matter. There is a dog "walker" who cycles with a basket full of unsecured little dogs and on at least one occasion, had another tucked under his arm, the hand of which was towing a struggling retriever by the lead.Before you hand over your dog to someone else, check if they will be putting them at risk of harm by behaving in this manner. It is also illegal: Highway Code section 66 states that cyclists should not carry anything that will affect balance or get tangled in wheels or the chain. A dog lead - with dog on the end of it - fits with that description as do loose dogs being carried.

Charlotte Kasner ● 2074d

I can't agree more these nutters need to be taken off the road, they're a threat to humankind !

Chris Vessey ● 2074d

'Cyclists should not carry anything that will affect their balance'. I wonder if that includes large boxes of food?

Peter Evans ● 2074d

Of course it does.

Steve Taylor ● 2074d

I have to disagree there. Large boxes are securely strapped to the cyclist's back and shoulders unlike animals on a leash or underarm.

Chris Vessey ● 2074d

Or in panniers.

Ken Munn ● 2074d

I had "deliveroo" in mind. These guys can be seen delivering hot food to customers with very large blue boxes strapped to their backs

Chris Vessey ● 2073d

Wish I could find the lovely photo from last Summer of a dad cycling with a toddler in his arms .

Maggie Dodge ● 2073d

Many cyclists don't know how to ride, very much like motorists who don't have a clue how to drive. Result a large number of road users on suicide missions. In addition we now have pedestrians walking in the roads. Crazy !

Chris Vessey ● 2073d

At least motorists have passed a test. Cyclists haven't - hence the constant law breaking and lack of road sense.

Steve Taylor ● 2073d

Wrong Steve, I passed a cycling test !!!Motorists may have passed a test, but then immediatelylet their standards slip and behave like idiots, lunatics,killing and injuring other road users (look at the annual figures as evidence). By comparison cyclists are clean and pure and innocent as the day they were born, with only the occasional skirmish with the odd blind pedestrian.

Chris Vessey ● 2073d

If cyclists were so pure and innocent they wouldn’t need a cycle lane. Unfortunately the majority are arrogant, selfish hooligans who regularly break the law.

Steve Taylor ● 2073d

Come on Chris what world do you live in?I have met many of pig headed and dangerous drivers, cyclist and pedestrians.I don’t know the percentage but it must be at least 50% of people are all three.Standards have slipped in traffic policing over the years which has lead to the outrageous things all road users get up to.Turn the time machine back a long way when my mother and I approach a T junction which was clear both ways so we carried on and turned left, only to meet a policeman stepping out from behind at tree.He pulled my mum over and verbally gave her a right dressing down for going through a halt sign without stopping and putting her foot to the ground.Most cyclist today would just ride pass the policeman with two fingers in the air as they are not recognisable even using a body cam.After having my vehicle kicked to hell and the door mirror kicked off by an irate cyclists because I warned him he was riding over into the lane I was in, if he had continued travelling in that direction we would have collided.I haven’t got much respect for the Lycra brigade in general, which isn’t fair on the average local cyclist who is just popping up to the shops, they seem good road users, and could teach the Lycra lads on how to ride.

Bernard Allen ● 2073d

Chris, you know full well Steve's point is demonstrating proficiency and knowledge of the road is mandatory for drivers. It is not for cyclists.Your blather about clean, pure innocence is just that, blather. Pointless.

David Lesniak ● 2072d

I rest my case !

Chris Vessey ● 2072d

I rest my case. In the course of time cars will be bannedfrom CHR allowing only buses to enter, cycling only in dedicated lanes. Take a look at Hounslow High Street for example.

Chris Vessey ● 2072d

"In the course of time cars will be bannedfrom CHR"You really ought to pay attention, Chris.This would mean no residents throughout eastern and central Chiswick would have access to their homes. Aside from that being impossible, it would mean LBH would not be collecting fees for parking permits in those areas as well. Something they will never do.Keep dreaming, though.

David Lesniak ● 2072d

All their homes will be demolished to make way for other vehicular traffic. Twenty storey tower blocks erected to house those left without a home. This has happened in other cities in the UK and even Kingston upon Thames. Take a look and you will see what is the future for Chiswick.

Chris Vessey ● 2072d

"Take a look at Hounslow High Street for example."Exactly!  Who the hell wants  to go to Hounslow High Street?  It's a dump. Is this what people want for Chiswick?

Steve Taylor ● 2072d

When I lived in India you'd drive along a city road one day and they would have very neatly painted white arrows and a distance in feet painted on every building. A month later you'd come by and the buildings would have been bulldozed back that number of feet, you'd see people living in upstairs rooms with no walls etc. Then the flyover would go in and the the multi-lane road below, that's how you keep cites moving!

John Hall ● 2072d

It has to happen, no more petrol/diesel guzzling engines even in lowly chiswick otherwise we're all fried bread. So says David Attenborough born 1925 at Borough Training College Isleworth. Take note, you CANNOT ignore the facts of global warming. We all have to do our bit, it's probably already too late.

Chris Vessey ● 2071d

But if we have warmer winters I guess more people will ride bikes? Win win?

Kieran Fox ● 2071d

In the days before mass car ownership we all used trolley buses, whether warm or cold weather. Majority rode bikes to work. I remember the bikes sheds and multiple bike sheds,full and I mean FULL of bikes. No obesity those days all slim and trim and reasonably fit, or very fit. All the big engineering companies had many bike sheds; and then the dreaded motorcar appeared, there is a time and a place for these inventions, for me/us it's collecting the weekly shopping and for the past covid year it's had no other use.

Chris Vessey ● 2071d

He he, that's the Indian way, it's clearly coming here, but instead of building more roads we should build and own far far fewer cars so we can all breathe properly.

Chris Vessey ● 2071d

I notice, Chris, you think it worthwhile to kill off an entire global industry along with its supply chain but you make no mention whatsoever of converting to electric vehicles. Or solar vehicles. Or whatever other technologies lie ahead. Not to mention you think it wise to remove autonomy and independence from local homeowners by demolishing their homes, is it?Putting that silliness aside, you then turn back the hands of time to a completely different era and assume one's health then was solely down to cycling. A few newsflashes for you. Back then life expectancy was far shorter so, using your "logic" we could then say all that cycling killed people off sooner. And we could ignore, as you did, the food supply chain was something else entirely. All foods bought locally often on a daily basis, women kept at home to prepare it (when not ironing and dusting), no processed food to speak of, and so on.Maybe a better path forward in promoting the evolution of transit and urban infrastructure would be to assess reality first. Might carry a bit more credibility that way.

David Lesniak ● 2071d

"for me/us it's collecting the weekly shopping"To each his own but for me spontaneity is all important. You can't just pop down to Devon or go to the Cotswolds or the Lake District on a whim without a car.  No adventures. Just a cycle down CHR - how boring. And kids whose parents don't have cars are deprived of so much education and adventure. It's a great shame that some people are content to be 'controlled' and confined to trains and buses and  silly cycle lanes. It's seems to me to be a perverse 'need' to be controlled by big brother and follow like sheep. Thelma and Louise must be turning in their graves.

Steve Taylor ● 2071d

Aye, that's some diatribe my friend ! This discussion board is just that, however with your sweet kind personality it appears to be an argument/disagreement board. Will you please explain to all of us why this is so. We merely express our opinions. Best wishes

Chris Vessey ● 2071d

Of course you can. You can go by train to say Gloucester, take your bike with you and ride round the Cotswolds for as long as you wish. I personally would just cycle there, probably not now (too bloody old) but it was great fun with people of like mind. I can only manage 100 miles these days and that's only twice a year; it comes to us all so enjoy yourself while you can.

Chris Vessey ● 2071d

Indeed, I'm merely expressing opinions.

David Lesniak ● 2071d

ChrisTake off your rose tinted cycling glasses, this morning at between 7.35am and 7.50am I witnessed 8 cyclists crashing red lights and cycling on south side pavement of CHR / HT junction ! But zero motorists doing the same.You're the 5th dedicated supporter of C9 and LTN's who has rejected my offer - I wonder why that is ? Could it be that none of you want to see proof of foolhardy and dangerous cycling ? Again I state that anyone, be they motorists or cyclists, must obey the law and if they don't they should be penalised, trouble is it's very hard to identify cyclists who do that with cyclists !

Loraine Pemberton ● 2071d

Can’t see the attraction of being cramped in a train with inconsiderate people breathing germs, shouting on their phones and spreading their diseases. The motor car provides total independence and freedom of movement. Thank goodness it will continue to do so for the next century. I  sympathise with the sheeples of future generations

Steve Taylor ● 2071d

Can’t see the attraction of being cramped in a train with inconsiderate people breathing germs, shouting on their phones and spreading their diseases. The motor car provides total independence and freedom of movement. Thank goodness it will continue to do so for the next century. I  sympathise with the sheeples of future generations

Steve Taylor ● 2071d

"motorcar provides total independence and freedom of movement"No it doesn't, you know it doesn't otherwise you would notbe complaining about all your freedoms with your car beingtaken away from you in Chiswick and surrounding areas.

Chris Vessey ● 2071d

What you have not considered is this, the manufacture of batteries and emissions thereof is greater than the emissions from that which they will replace. So the planet will be even dirtier !

Chris Vessey ● 2070d

Teleportation it is, then.

David Lesniak ● 2069d

“ you would not be complaining about all your freedoms with your car beingtaken away from you”You must be confusing me with someone you think you know!  I gave up my company car last October. It is  stupid to have a car when you can’t go anywhere due to the pandemic. However, when the pandemic ‘ends’ it will be fantastic to get a car again and experience the independence and freedom of movement in comfort. Not to mention the speed we are free to travel at.  People will appreciate their cars more and the industry will grow as we are able to enjoy our freedoms again. Great adventures to be had which are totally impossible to experience without the almighty motor vehicle!!

Steve Taylor ● 2069d

"Causing huge misery to motorists is good, very good. They really are the killers in our community be assured, be very assured !"Good grief, you sound like a fanatic Chris, and that's not a good thing in fact it's very disturbing

Loraine Pemberton ● 2069d

Ha ha, wind up merchant !

Chris Vessey ● 2069d

It won't be long before there are improvements in air systems so that we can feel happier travelling in trains.  What we do need though is for all our stations to be ACCESSIBLE FOR ALL and that is proving a big problem with so many stations so unbelievably out of date.eg Ealing Broadway where it should be able to easily access with suitcases the trains to the south-west instead of having to go into Paddington in order  to come out again.

Philippa Bond ● 2069d

Has anyone actually asked for that cycle lane to be cleaned or are they just complaining about it?Shouldn't all cyclists have to pass a Cycling Proficiency Test?  I'm sure that this is what used to happen at schools.

Philippa Bond ● 2069d

Not a wind up. Just stating facts. But I do feel sorry for those whose big adventure is to cycle the streets of Chiswick. And I feel sorry for those who have to endure the cramped, noisy and germ infested trains and think they are exploring the country by travelling from station to station. There is a big world out there but without the car you don’t get to see it. Fortunately for the free spirits the motor vehicle is here to stay for a long, long time.

Steve Taylor ● 2069d

"Fortunately for the free spirits the motor vehicle is here to stay for a long, long time."Not if Councillor Curran has anything to do with it. He made it abundantly clear last night at the 'Budget Question Time' that he and his administration are resolutely anti-car even hybrid and electric cars. He gave the poor driving pensioner (who asked why he could not drive his disabled wife to the opticians without getting a penalty fine) a hard time. He concluded by saying "that's just the way it is".

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2069d

I think that's a good idea - kids should be taught how to cycle safely.  Given that a lot of cyclists have driving licenses - maybe that's enough?I guess you could add a cycling module to the driving test so every new driver is also able to safely operate a bike on the road.Would cyclists who haven't passed a proficiency test or don't have a driving license be made to wear L plates - or at least for electric bikes?

Ed Saper ● 2069d

I thought it has to be all electric by 2030 ?

Chris Vessey ● 2069d

Finally the cat is out the bag, good !

Chris Vessey ● 2069d

That's a bit rich when they are selling 'All Hounslow' parking permits now, encouraging more people to drive and park. I bet he doesn't have an LTN making traffic go past his front door, but continues to drive around in a car himself.

J Morse ● 2069d

Either that or do motorcycle CBT training module. Doing my motorbike licence many years ago completely changed my car driving attitude. I always look left and behind when turning left, except for the one time I didn't when I didn't think it was needed as I was in a one way road turning onto the A4 in a car and a motorcyclist had crept up next to me whilst i was waiting for a space in the traffic going East - we both went for the same gap in the traffic and hence I squashed him between my car and the pavement. Fortunately no harm done (at least not too much) Turns out he was a policeman on his way to work and I was shaking from the incident saying maybe we need to call the police, when he blurted out he was a policeman. He didn't take it any further as he knew he shouldn't have gone down the inside in a one way road and done what he did - but it was still scary even so and a lesson to never turn before checking one last time that someone will sneak down your inside when you least expect it.

J Morse ● 2069d

"Not if Councillor Curran has anything to do with it. He made it abundantly clear last night at the 'Budget Question Time' that he and his administration are resolutely anti-car even hybrid and electric cars."Is that the same Cllr Curran who drives and owns  Range Rover, possibly a diesel one ? However, not sure about the model  ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 2069d

He lives in Brentford End opposite Lion Gate of Syon Park.There are no LTN's in that area..... Yet ! Although London Road into/out of Brentford is busy.

Chris Vessey ● 2069d

....and what gas guzzler do you bomb around leafy suburb of Chiswick in Loraine (where's my coffee) ?

Chris Vessey ● 2069d

ChrisYou've never accepted my invitation.I walk around Chiswick and my car is used to visit my 94 year old Mother in the Cotswolds and my brother in Devon.Any other questions ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 2069d

“ I thought it has to be all electric by 2030 ?“Nope, that ain’t gonna happen. But even if it did, electric motor vehicles are still  ‘motor’ vehicles.  Hopefully around London we will see e-scooters and e-bicycles quadruple within the next year.

Steve Taylor ● 2069d

Fortunately Cllr Curran is irrelevant and doesn’t feature in the grand scheme of things!

Steve Taylor ● 2069d

... there may be if you remain civilised !

Chris Vessey ● 2069d

How do you work that out. There's a lot going on in Hounslow Borough, too many high rise tower blocks proposed, and many already built in Brentford for instance.

Chris Vessey ● 2069d

I love Chris completely ignores the Range Rover fact, lays into Loraine but then demands civility.Side note: Guy Lambert drives an old Jaguar.

David Lesniak ● 2068d

Not true, Lorraine keeps promising to buy me a coffee, but doesn't turn up. May be I wouldn't turn up !So Guy Lambert drives an old Jag but makes out he mainly rides his bike. You should take issue with him then perhaps.

Chris Vessey ● 2068d

I will donate coffee and snacks to you and Loraine!I take issue with hypocrisy no matter the source!

David Lesniak ● 2068d

Hi Loraine, I have just heard David Lesniak wants to donate to coffee and cakes too . What do you say to that then ?

Chris Vessey ● 2068d

What an absolute load of garbage from Chris Vessey, you've never accepted my offer and furthermore you've absolutely never arranged to meet me despite my offer !As my Grandmother once said you can lock away from a Thief, but never a Liar !

Loraine Pemberton ● 2068d

DavidVery kind of you, many thanks but as you know i cannot eat sugar, so Chris can have double portion of cakes etcAnd I take issue with people who tell whopping great lies !

Loraine Pemberton ● 2068d

Horrible scene this morning on the chicane at the chiswick bridge end on Hartington Road.  A lady cycling in the cycling lane brutally overtaken by a  black Volvo XC90 on the chicane pinch point. Why can't some drivers excercise some patience,  it would haver literally taken the driver a few seconds to wait for the road to widen again.  Maybe it would be have been better is the cyclist took a defensive position and cycled in the middle of that road.  Just more proof that some paint on the road does not work.

Matthew Swain ● 2068d

These heathen motorists never learn, not fit to be driving on the road. Was this cyclist injured badly ? Hope not !I rode there this morning as many others were, that chicane  is not good, and drivers are often careless but not always I hasten to add.

Chris Vessey ● 2068d

Who rattled your cage Madam. I took that invitation as a friendly gesture, perhaps I was wrong, never mind.

Chris Vessey ● 2068d

"Not true, Lorraine keeps promising to buy me a coffee, but doesn't turn up"You and your above untruth rattled my cage, and my offer was a friendly gesture, such a shame you had to spoil it.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2068d

That sounds nasty - a track I often use. Did the driver squeeze her over on exiting?https://goo.gl/maps/PVfwbmnTiME5AiT88

Russell Pearson ● 2068d

driving licenCelicenSed to drive

Anne England ● 2068d

They may be licensed to drive but THEY ARE NOT FIT TO DRIVE

Chris Vessey ● 2068d

But they are at least licensed and their frustration with cyclists will get worse and worse. Get used to it!  Blame the Council for all the driving restrictions and reducing road use for motorists. You for get who is paying the road tax.

Steve Taylor ● 2068d

Refresher courses needed for many.  Lessons in consideration for others also needed.

Philippa Bond ● 2068d

Was having a long chat outside MetroBank yesterday afternoon. Had a chance to see Jeremy Vine on his penny farthing teetering above toddlers struggling to stay up. Courtesy of Catherine O'Hara on Schitt's Creek: What kind of a grown man rides a penny farthing? Indeed the cycle lane was busy but no one stopping to shop. Pity.But the dangerous bit was a young guy I'm guessing older than 16 but younger than 20. I say 16 because he had his headphones on, sitting straight up with no control of the handlebars and an ice cold beer in his hand. Do I have the age right for buying alcohol? And that came in between groups of tweens riding wheelies back and forth and attempting other tricks.So to the letter of the law, he was drinking while operating a vehicle. While these tiny tots were weaving in and out of each cycle lane as those who are just off training wheel would be learning to cycle. A concrete curb will change nothing.

David Lesniak ● 2067d

Can we also bear in mind all the lies being told. The cycle lobby would have the world believe that the cycle lanes are well used and wonderful. That LTNs are idyllic havens for children  to play in the road. I don’t think this is true judging by the various videos I’ve seen and the comments of  the bus driver, ambulance drivers etc, all hush hush because they’re not really supposed to tell the truth. So every time you read something but there’s no evidence, particularly if the story comes from a cycle zealot  please do your research . Look at the LCC website really read the details. See how many cycle zealots are in powerful positions pushing these schemes through. Look at Richmond Park. Then think do I believe anything that comes out of the mouth of a cycle zealot? Finally look at how hard the Council is trying to make driving difficult and to convince us to stop driving, then look at the schemes to bring drivers in to the area. Brentford football ground. Permits to park anywhere in the Borough. It’s all about cycling and money their two gods.

Maggie Dodge ● 2067d

Has everybody in dark dismal Chiswick forgotten we have LOCKDOWN. Do you not know the Covid rate is exceptionally high in Chiswick ? STAY AT HOME STAY AT HOME, DO NOT GATHER IN LARGE NUMBERS. As for J Vine he should know better, once a showman, always a showman. He should be setting an example, not p...ing over everyone. Come on protect yourselves and protect the NHS. Wise up for God's Sake !

Chris Vessey ● 2067d

A licence is required for a MOTOR vehicle to be on the public highway. Why are you so misinformed ? Very sad.

Chris Vessey ● 2067d

Road Tax finished in 1936 replaced now with VED vehicle excise duty for motorised vehicles. Funds for upkeep of roads comes from Council Tax. I pay Council Tax and I pay VED for my motorcar which I use once weekly to collect shopping hence very low mileage. High mileage cycling dodging potential killers on the roads in motorised vehicles. When will they ever learn ? Please get your facts correct and in order !

Chris Vessey ● 2067d

Before you rant over comments from cycling so called "zealots" check on the almost criminal verbiage from misinformed and ignorant motorists. Check on the annual deaths and injuries on our roads each year and ask yourself how many were the fault of cyclists.

Chris Vessey ● 2067d

I didn’t mention deaths but now you mention it, the C9 cycle lane has been condemned by cyclists as dangerous. Cycle lanes in Boston Manor also considered dangerous. You can actually be killed by a cyclist.The bus driver too scared to be named , felt the cycle lane was a danger to pedestrians and cyclists .  The cycling zealots say it isn’t , that sounds like a lie to me. Would you like to address any of my points specifically ?

Maggie Dodge ● 2067d

A licence is required for a MOTOR vehicle to be on the public highwayA bike is a vehicleAn e-bike is a motorized vehicleDoes using an e-bike require a license given your evidence a license is required for a motor vehicle? Ditto scooters.

David Lesniak ● 2067d

care here a bike is NOT a motorised vehicle. Electric bikes are power assisted and can be ridden in the normal way, therefore does not require a licence. So neither need a licence. A motorbike requires a licence because it depends entirely on its engine for propulsion. I hope this clears this matter up; I bet it doesn't (knowing you ha ha).

Chris Vessey ● 2067d

YES ! There was a death by a cyclist reported in great depth recently in London. A pedestrian stepped off the pavement without looking whilst on her smart phone. She stepped in front of the horrified cyclist. The cyclist was found guilty (this is a warning to those poor innocent cyclists everywhere that they will always be guilty).Quite to the contrary deaths and injury by car drivers are hardly ever reported. So I feel we need to address the balance amongst road users don't you ?As for C9 cycling route, there have been no deaths so far and I would strongly advise pedestrians to enter this route with great care. I would also even more strongly advise ALL cyclists to use it with even greater care and caution. With cycling comes responsibility but this also applies to pedestrians when out walking their smart mobile phones. As for the bus driver making judgment on C9 route, unless he was actually cycling, or indeed walking at the time, then he is in no position to pass judgment.I have ridden the C9 route several times and do not care for it to be quite honest and would in future find another route, but this is just my personal opinion.

Chris Vessey ● 2067d

"I hope this clears this matter up; I bet it doesn't (knowing you ha ha)"Good one. Gosh, you're just so darn clever.

David Lesniak ● 2067d

"As for the bus driver making judgment on C9 route, unless he was actually cycling, or indeed walking at the time, then he is in no position to pass judgment"What a load of shit.Anyone has a right to weigh in on the subject. Fro my money, a bus driver who operates a bus anywhere in the city with a cycle lane is in a better position than most to weigh in on the impact of these measures. A bus driver on local W4 routes has far more ability to offer something constructive than any cycle lobbyist from outside the borough with no knowledge/experience of how Chiswick functions.Nice job belittling someone, Chris. You truly know no bounds.

David Lesniak ● 2067d

I am boundless ! Great fun !

Chris Vessey ● 2067d

There’s something  all cycle zealots seem to have in common. A sandwich short of a picnic

Maggie Dodge ● 2067d

Did your parents not teach you good manners ?

Chris Vessey ● 2067d

Good to see the signs are still standing warning motorists of the benefits of entering Hartington Road. Long may they continue !

Chris Vessey ● 2064d

“ I am boundless ! Great fun !”Chris, you seem to have great fun being a truly nasty person!

Steve Taylor ● 2064d

Good thing my number plates are covered in mud so I care not a jot for ridiculous road closures.

Steve Taylor ● 2064d

Imo, Chris Vessey swings between aggressive and passive aggressive. Having said that, he has the right to air his opinions.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2063d

Steve Taylor is right up his arse. A common outlaw he should be locked up, sooner the better !

Chris Vessey ● 2063d

It appears this Forum has many rather ignorant contributors therefore I'm out of here,

Chris Vessey ● 2063d

Good grief. Chris Vessey is an obnoxious and rude old man. He promised to get out of the W4 forum but he keeps on returning like a very bad smell.

Steve Taylor ● 2063d

How do you get banned on here?

Maggie Dodge ● 2062d

👋🤞👋🤞

Loraine Pemberton ● 2062d

Post a slightly "off" joke at 3am for a sour, po-faced nocturnal old biddy, pretty sure female, to make a complaint and whoosh quick as a flash - banned!

Jennifer Selig ● 2062d

Increased speed I reckon because locals in south Chiswick have to make massive detours in heavy traffic on A316 just to get to their local community services in Grove Park

Simeon Gill ● 2057d

the cost of keeping their motor on the road that they are not using instead of the bike?

Simeon Gill ● 2057d

Seems joggers cannot win cant run on the pavement, cant run in a cycle lane and cant run in the road. FYI walking in opposition the oncoming traffic is safer for the pedestrian who can see traffic coming - traffic including cycles need to give clear distance around - simple rule of the country road network

Simeon Gill ● 2057d

because the footpaths are often than not full with three pedestrians abreast with one another and usually with dogs on extended leads so no-one can pass

Simeon Gill ● 2057d

Blame the inpatient motorists who will attempt to squeeze past a cyclist when there is no room, pass at speed very close by or cannot be bothered to wait and let them pass before turning out of junctions or overtake and left hook them. If motorists cannot control themselves this is the mess you get. Motorists shouldn't be licensed to drive a motor vehicle until they have demonstrated a number of miles travelled on a bike beforehand - it might make them more considerate

Simeon Gill ● 2057d

Did you really just call someone rude and obnoxious?That's priceless.