Forum Topic

A selfish idiot caused a deer's death

A man whose dog attacked a deer in a Royal Park causing its death was fined just £600.The frightened deer ran into the road where it was hit by a car and had to be put down after the Irish setter, called Alfie attacked it and then gave chase.Owner Franck Hiribarne, 44, told magistrates he was training his young puppy in Richmond Park, south west London, in October last year when the pet started chasing a deer.The dog had been allowed to run loose - despite signs telling visitors to put their dogs on leads, the court heard.Hiribarne, who is vice president for Europe, The Middle East, and Asia, for FORMA Brands - a company describing itself as 'an incubator, accelerator, and curator of today's beauty brands' - said he lost sight of the dog as it raced after the wild animal.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9158993/Moment-Irish-setter-mauls-deer-death-Richmond-Park-owner-44-fined-600.html

Leslie Wilson ● 2109d51 Comments

This is very sad, Leslie, but I'm afraid it's the way of the world - and, I'm afraid, happens all the time all over the world. Forgetting the fine, I should imagine the dog owner is as sad and mortified as you and the rest of us.

Roger Talbot ● 2109d

Yes it's tragic for all concerned, the dog owner is clearly distressed by the incident and very apologetic.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2109d

My experience of Irish setters is that once they have got an idea in their heads, there is no stopping them, no matter how much off-lead training they have had. Ergo not a good dog to have off the lead in a deer park.

Richard Greenhough ● 2109d

It happens much less in places where there are stricter rules about dog owners needing to keep their dogs on the lead.

Simon Pedley ● 2109d

With all the dog thefts would think they would want to keep them on the lead regardless of rules.

Janice Evans ● 2109d

Even being on the lead doesn't seem to put off the dognappers - https://news.sky.com/story/dog-owner-completely-broken-as-pet-who-helped-him-cope-with-depression-is-stolen-during-attack-12189998

Richard Greenhough ● 2109d

Was aware this is happening and wonder when something will be don't about it.

Janice Evans ● 2109d

'Selfish idiot' or just someone who didn't appreciate the potential consequences?

Andrew Jones ● 2109d

Fair play to the person on his bike who at considerable risk to himself intervened to get the dog away from the poor injured deer.

Edward Seaton ● 2109d

Dog owners in the Royal Parks; Richmond and Bushy, become very aggressive when asked politely to leash up their dogs.Their unleashed dogs are all over the place out of control. Not sure what the answer is, notices everywhere asking them to keep dogs on lead/leash. Perhaps these people are a superior race ?

Chris Vessey ● 2109d

Never ask a dog owner to put their dog on a lead. You are risking your life. I have given up on Richmond park, bikes, dogs etc. Feel I am running out of spaces to have a walk. My friend was walking along the Thames and sat on a seat. Three men came along and politely said, "Excuse me sir, can you please move, this is our seat". My friend looked at the river flowing along and glancing back at the three men replied, "Oh sorry lads". He then got up and walked away as fast as he could. He told me he had gone for a long walk and broke it with a rest.

Nicholas Beard ● 2109d

Just occassionally I challenge the small percentage of Chiswick House Grounds dog walkers who don't put their dogs on the lead in the various areas where they are supposed to, like around the cafe (I do that when I see small children who are intimidated by the dogs, or because the dogs are bothering people, not just to be a busy body). I usually discover that the rules don't apply to that particular dog, for various reasons.

Simon Pedley ● 2109d

Chiswick House is a no-go area for trips from our home and has been for a couple of years.  Following a number of dogs jumping up at our wheelchair users it is not worth the upset. We raised keeping dogs on leads with the Park but they were not interested - I presume they are more interested in the income from the dog show.WE have reached peak dog.  The damage to our park wildlife and the quantity of waste is very sad.Hopefully we can follow other in the steps of other UK councils and ban dogs from council parks ...at least that would give some respite from dogs and their selfish owners.I would add that dog owners in a city are cruel too.  At best a city dog gets, what, an hour a day walk ?  Then locked up for the rest of the time.    A  city is no place for a dog.

David Grantley ● 2109d

You just had to bring bikes into it, didn't you, Edward?  Implication is only bikers are decent people?

Claire Moran ● 2109d

Dogs should not be kept on the lead all the time unless they are prone to bad behaviour (one of my rescues is on the lead all the time as he just loses all obedience if he spots a fox or even a motorbike, no training has made any difference although he is much better with other dogs than he was when I got him and weirdly adores cats). But you have to choose where to let them off.  Unless I was totally and utterly convinced that my dogs would not chase deer I wouldn't let them off. Hence why I haven't been to Richmond or Bushey Parks for the seven or so years I have had my two rescues.  It's a shame as I adore both parks, but there are many other local parks to walk them in where they are not a threat to wildlife.  My on-the-lead rescue is mad about swimming,  and I keep him on the lead even when he is swimming in Osterley or Chiswick Park or in the Thames as once he starts pursuing the ducks he just won't return for hours.  Weird that he has such a strong prey sense but absolutely loves cats (and people). A lot down to the breed (almost certainly a jack russell/shihzu cross and the jack in him is very strong) but also early years training, I got him when he was over one.  At least didn't have to go through the toilet training and chewing phases with them!  I am sure this bloke has learned his lesson, so sad that a lovely deer had to bear the consequences of his lack of understanding of the amount of control he had over his dog. But it does sometimes happen with new dog owners.  My father swore his dogs were under his command until one off lead ran across the road and was killed.

Claire Moran ● 2109d

I cannot count the times that dogs have run up to me and jumped on me with their muddy paws, barking and bothering me. And the owners say ‘Oh, he doesn’t usually do that’. Dogs are said to be trainable but, frankly, I don’t find many are.

Vivienne Cox ● 2108d

It’s never happened to me when I’ve been out and about ... where were you on the majority of these occasions? I have to say though, large dogs must be very frightening when they bound up to you if you are wary of dogs.

Andrew Jones ● 2108d

I have run out of fingers and toes to count the number of toddlers and young kids who bound up to dogs, try to hug them at best or sometimes smack them including with sticks or run round them screaming which will inevitably produce a reaction from dogs, either because they think it's play or it makes them afraid.  Surely young humans are at least as trainable as dogs?  From my experiencequite a few  parents do very little to help their kids understand what being dogs means, they  praise and pick up their kids when they run screaming from a dog and don't teach them to respect animals.  People need respect. But so do animals and it is so sad to see many even in our apparently sophisticed suburb who don't respect animals and are certainly not teaching their kids to love and respect them - quite the opposite. I am not justifying the behaviour of the man who didn't pay enough attention to how his particular dog could react among our precious wildlife.

Claire Moran ● 2108d

I have been walking round the coast of England. Berwick on Tweed to Lyme Regis so far, but obviously not this year ,Dogs on beaches are off leash and curious. I understand that but they are not really trained.

Vivienne Cox ● 2108d

At least do not blame the dog, it was simply doing what it was trained to do: Irish setters were bred as working dogs not house pets, specifically they are gun dogs.  Irish setters need a lot of exercise, they were bred to run all day over rough terrain. IMO having that sort of dog in London, unless you are training for marathons or fell running, is cruel to the dog.

Justin Stephenson ● 2108d

Ah thanks for that, I can quite imagine happening on beaches. Hope you don't get knocked over and that the mud washes off when you resume your coastal paths walk!

Andrew Jones ● 2108d

And in more news...Out-of-control dog massacres 50 ewes in Wales.https://www.farminguk.com/news/out-of-control-dog-massacres-50-ewes-in-wales_57378.html

Ken Munn ● 2108d

I had two quite powerful dogs which I never let off the leads in any public areas,  we used to drive to the woods where there were very few if any people around, they were trained but you have to be prepared for the unexpected with dogs.  My mums small dog was safe to let run free but only let him off the lead when no other dogs around in case he was attacked by a larger dog.

Janice Evans ● 2108d

This is a difficult read from Friends of Richmond Park on the human impact on deer. https://www.frp.org.uk/carelessness-costs-deer-lives/Excerpts below:"It is a shocking fact that around twenty deer in the Park are killed each year through human carelessness.""Some 5-10 Park deer a year are killed by cars; this has halved since 2004 when the speed limit was reduced from 30 to 20 mph, but don’t usually stop so only examination of the deer shows it has been hit by a car.""Uncontrolled dogs kill 6 or so deer a year, mainly baby deer in their first weeks, left in the undergrowth while their mothers graze nearby. A dog comes across a baby deer, the deer tries to flee, the dog automatically chases it, the deer cannot run fast enough to escape, and the dog brings it down. Occasionally a dog will chase a herd and maul a fully-grown deer, which then has to be destroyed.""Litter kills around 5 deer a year. This is a guess, based on the post-mortems done when deer die unexpectedly.""So we Park-users kill around 20 deer a year in painful deaths, not the painless, sudden shot to the head of the cull. Simple arithmetic says that a Park deer has a 1 in 30 chance of being killed by humans – and no humans die in return. Doesn’t seem fair, does it?"

Paul Campbell ● 2108d

Really all dogs should be muzzled and kept on a lead whilst out in a public place, and only allowed to run free in designated areas set aside for that purpose.

Vanessa Smith ● 2108d

I worry that dog-owners who are so keen to let their pets run free in places like Richmond Park don't appreciate the potential consequences if they adopt the same approach in the countryside (present circumstances acknowledged). Farmers who come across an out of control dog chasing livestock have been known to deal with the problem first and worry about the legal niceties later.

Bruce Hammal ● 2108d

It's an odd thing to decide to to go and buy a bred-for-captivity animal to keep it in a city and then insist on ignoring signs in parks about keeping it on a lead.

John Hall ● 2108d

Cats are a much bigger scourge than dogs. They are responsible for the deaths of more of our beautiful garden birds in London than any other single cause. And yet the evil-minded cowardly brutes are freely allowed by their owners to intrude on other people#'s property to kill solely for pleasure, too.I set my Wheaten Terrier on any cat that pokes its disgusting head over the garden fence.

Roger Talbot ● 2108d

>>I set my Wheaten Terrier on any cat that pokes its disgusting head over the garden fence.<

Gordon McDonald ● 2108d

Wondered when someone would get round to using moggies as a defence for some dog's behaviour. I have had numerous cats over many years and only two of them showed the slightest interest in hunting and one of them was a rodent specialist, and the other couldn't have caught a cold try as he might. The Diva we have now watches out of the window where we feed the birds, her teeth chatter away but she is far too much of a princess to go out and dirty her paws.

Vanessa Smith ● 2108d

Any terrier worth its salt would not need to be 'set' on any cat coming within range,it would automatically go for it.News alert...dogs and cats kill other animals and have done so for eons. It's what they would do if us soppy humans were not around to stop them, and in this case there was a soppy human around who didn't do that by not putting his dog on a lead.

Keith Iddon ● 2108d

I suggest we stop this now, otherwise someone will have to make a case about how many lovely insects are killed every year by those damned birds. The cats can wear bells and the dogs can stay on leads, the murdering birds we can do nothing about.

Bruce Hammal ● 2108d

I hope that is an example of your weird sense of humour, Roger Talbot, rather than the reality. If it is the reality you could and should be prosecuted.  What a disgusting thing to say.

Claire Moran ● 2108d

Keith, my two terrier crosses adore my three cats.  I had them cat-tested before I adopted them from the rescue home. However, they hate foxes.

Claire Moran ● 2108d

I'm not a pet person, but would a muzzle be good if owners want to let dogs of leads?

Ken Munn ● 2108d

Catproofed gardens is a good compromise.  Cats can roam, sunbathe, eat the grass, even climb trees but can't get out so are safe from poison, dogs, horrible people who want to harm them and cars among other dangers.  Birds, mice and rats are (mostly) safe although mine have brought me a present of a few over the years that they managed to get in the garden even though they wear collars with bells on. (Unfortunately a sparrow and a bluetit family both decided to make separate nests on the high wall that separates my garden from the others and that was a bit too tempting for them (only one culprit now remains, the other two couldn't care less).  I have seen some beautiful birds in the garden trees over the last month or so which is encouraging.  It also means other people's cats who can potentially spread disease including the cat variety of covid which can become a lethal and virtually incurable illness,  can't get in and neither can foxes.  I like foxes and feed them regularly but I don't want them  in my garden.

Claire Moran ● 2108d

Yes, but people would look even odder with them on than they do with masks. And I'm not sure it would make any difference to the dog.

Claire Moran ● 2108d

I should have known that a bit of my usual deliberate wind-up tosh would have got you started, you batshit crazy crone.At least Vanessa twigged what I was up to, trying to tempt her into one of her broadsides, and I doff my hunting cap to her for her response which saw me end up hung by my own petard.One day I must tell you about my baby seal-clubbing holiday at Blakeney Point in  Norfolk.

Roger Talbot ● 2107d

Roger Talbot: "you batshit crazy crone."That's completely out of order, do you really think that kind of verbal/ written abuse is acceptable ? Absolutely shameful and it says far more about you than your victim, hang your head in shame Mr Talbot!

Loraine Pemberton ● 2107d

Ah, I should have known you would be along, Ms Pemberton.Talking of hanging heads in shame,I have a copyy of an unforgivably vile and abusive Private Message you recently sent to a lady who posts on here, and if it was ever reproduced on here then everyone would really know what an evil, two-faced piece of work and batshit craazy crone you are, too. It wouldn't be me hanging my head in shame. To listen to you, anyone would think that wherever the pair you go you are followed by God's creatures, fluttering and limping and in need of your love and understanding; both Saints Of Assisi.

Roger Talbot ● 2107d

Btw it's Mrs Pemberton.Go ahead Mr Talbot do your worst, as for the alleged 'lady' hmmm...

Loraine Pemberton ● 2107d

Perhaps Loraine got sick of being repeatedly stalked for years by alleged 'lady' on email and receiving email after abusive email from her -  as I did too. Some people who pretend to be all jolly and fun and sweetness and light on this forum  - including  said 'lady' have a really nasty, abusive and bullying dark side which most people don't see unless they have received her vile emails.  Especially when Loraine has been extremely generous to said 'lady' and got punched in the face (virtually - ie remotely) for it.

Claire Moran ● 2107d

Oh, and we both have had to block her on email to ensure we didn't receive any more of her incessant rabid poisonous messages.

Claire Moran ● 2107d

I see whhat you're getting at, Mrs Pembertonn. I would never sink so low.

Roger Talbot ● 2106d

Loraine. You know full well that your 'friend ' is known for flinging the most vindictive abuse at sometimes the slightest provocation.  Then she goes quiet for a bit. And then she starts again.  Perhaps you should read again some of her vile abuse of people onthe forum as she works through her list.

Stewart Jones ● 2106d

I am writing to publicly apologiise to Claire Moran and Loraine Pemberton for what I now  realise were my completely unacceptable insulting comments about them.I am normally a decent bloke, who enjoys some fun and cut-annd-thrust on here, but I went far beyond the bounds of decency. I can only put it doown to lockdown lunacy.I can only hope that they, and other forumers who I may have upset, will forgive me.

Roger Talbot ● 2106d

RogerThank youLoraine

Loraine Pemberton ● 2106d

Thank you.

Roger Talbot ● 2106d

I'm very pleased you apologised Roger and you really have to know both sides of the facts with any dispute before mentioning it.

Janice Evans ● 2106d

Thankyou,  Janice. That's what the judge said the last time I was sent to the Scrubs. But I never listened.

Roger Talbot ● 2106d

Thank you, Roger.

Claire Moran ● 2106d